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SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: Mum2lucy on May 10, 2016, 11:44:04 am
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Hi,
I am looking for advice. My lg is in the 2:1 transition and I don't know what way to go. She def prefers a long am and short pm nap. However she is beginning to refuse to take the pm nap even when I cap the am nap at 1.5hours. I've been reluctant to cap the nap any further as 1. I've worked so hard to get her to a point where she will take a decent nap and 2. There is no guarantee she'll sleep later.
I've read the 2:1 advice posts on her in fqa's but I'm still not sure what to do. Let her sleep and try 1 nap or cut am nap even more?
She is waking up at half 5am every morning which has been common for her from 8 months and the only way she'll settle back to sleep is for me to bf her. If she wakes after 6am (occasionally) I get up and start the day.
Yesterday easy was:
Nw 5.30 fed
Wu 6.00 as wouldn't go back to sleep after feed
A
S 10.05 - 11.40
Tried for second sleep in pram as she won't take ut nap in cot between 3.30-4.40 but she refused.
Bt 6.30
Woke this morning at 5.50, fed, then I woke her at 7.20.
If I do get a second nap, it's 30mins and then it pushes bt back.
Any ideas on the way forward? I'm just not sure whether to leave her trying one nap and she see how she gets on or if she's still to young and ot will build up
Thanks
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Hi!
The 2-1 is really tricky, it takes a lot of juggling and trial and error and always results in some OT/UT.
A few questions- how old is your DD?
How long would she sleep at the first nap if you don't wake her?
Have you tried capping a second nap (when you get it) even further e.g. To 15 mins to try to avoid a later BT?
If she sleeps later in the morning, do you need to wake her at a certain time (e.g. For a school run or similar) or can you leave her for some catch up sleep?
Given what you've said so far, my gut feeling would be to
1) go for as long a first nap as you can get, continue to try for 2nd in pram but if you can't get it, do an EBT
2) try to push first nap a bit later if you can..nut hard to do with EW. You might need to try this on a day she's resettled after the feed
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Thanks so much for your reply. I am grateful for your opinion!
Today I managed to get a second nap in the car.
Wu 7.20
A
S 11.10 - 12.40 (I woke her)
E
A
S 16.40 - 17.10
E
A
Bt 19.50
My lg is 10.5 months old.
I've not really been leaving her to sleep as I'm too nervous about her getting ot to bed. On the odd time I have she has slept around 2 hours. I do wonder if she is making up for waking up early though?
She is my first baby so I don't have any school runs. Only on a Friday I have commitment in the morning that means she doesn't get her usual routine. I tend to stay in for the morning as she prefers to sleep then and she doesn't do more than one sleep cycle when in the pram or car.
I could def try and cap the second nap if I get it. I do wonder if the second nap so near to bed (usually 2.5hours to bt from last nap) contributes to her waking around half 5?
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I would agree that the last nap probably does contribute to the EWs...both have mine have done 5-5.30 starts when going through nap transitions. Capping at 15-20 mins might help a bit, and avoid having to do a late BT too. I'd suggest waking her no later than 5pm to get a 7.30 BT.
I'd agree not to shorten the first nap any further. If she starts refusing the CN after a 1.5 hr nap frequently though, I'd try letting her sleep as long as she wants in the am and then doing EBT (maybe with a rest/quiet activities late afternoon too). That way she'll get as much sleep as possible overall in the day.
I noticed that she was more likely to resettle from her EW if she didn't take a 2nd nap. I'd try letting her sleep in until she wakes naturally in the morning if she does that, so she can catch up on sleep. That might also give you an easier one nap day.
You might find you get some 2 nap and some 1nap days for a while...and some OT too. It's inevitable with nap transitions. She's young for 1 nap but some do transition early. How old was she when she went from 3-2 naps?
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Meant to add...it sounds like she's evening out her sleep at the moment with around alternate 1 & 2 nap days (roughly). If that's avoiding OT, stick with it..but as I suggested above, if the CN refusal goes for a couple of consecutive days, I'd let her sleep as long as she wants at the first nap.
Re- waking her in the morning- if you refer a consistent start time and she's still compensating by taking a CN, again stick with it. If the CN does go, I'd let her take as much night sleep as she wants/needs too.
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Hiya,
Thanks for your reply. My lg isn't well just now so naps have gone wonky anyways so that's why I hadn't replied sooner.
She was fine with the 3:2 but the transition did take a while to complete (which was fine). Think she was about 6.5 - 7 months when she completely went to 2 naps. She was a serial 40mins napper though so that's why she sometimes needed the third nap.
I don't mind an inconsistent wake up time. That's what I tend to have anyway as some days at 6am, some it's 6.30am etc. I let her do what she wants with morning Wu.
With her being ill, she's only been doing an hour or so in the morning and she has wanted a second sleep so I'll see what happens when she is fighting fit again :)
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Poor little thing, hope she feels better soon.
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I'm back!! :o Lg is better and I'm right in the thick of 2:1.
For the last three days lg won't take second sleep. No amount of car/pram/cot is getting her off. Yesterday I walked for an hour and drove half an hour and still no sleep!
I hadn't been pushing the first nap out as I had hoped to keep the Cn as long as possible.
The last two days have been:
Wu:6.45 and be
E: solids 8am
A
S 11.05 - 12.25
Refused pm sleep
Bt 6.40pm
Slept through the night until 6.50am
Wu 6.50 with bf
E: 8.10 solids
A:
S 11.10 - 12.30
Refused second sleep:
Bt 6.20pm
Nw: 8pm short cry settled fine, 9.20pm up for 30 mins screaming
Wu: 6am with bf
E: 7.45 solids
S: 10.20 but cried and I had to shhhhh to sleep (usually goes to sleep unaided)
She was obviously overtired. I don't know what to do... Just commit to pushing the first nap out a bit and hope for best or maybe give short am long pm a try? She shows no tired signs so I'm concerned I wouldn't know when to put her down in the afternoon. I know the morning A because it took me months of trial and error to get it! ???
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Hi
Ah the joys of the 2-1! I remember DS getting into a similar OT mess around this point too. I think you have 2 options if she refuses a CN after a long sleep
1) Stick with long AM and do a super early bedtime (e.g. Around 5.30/6) and hope/see if she does a longer night to catch up and gradually try to increase first A time so nap is closer to 12 with less time afterwards until bed (but she'll need to catch up on some sleep first)
2) Switch to short AM, long pm amd do a super short first nap (e.g. Only 10-15 mins) earlier than your current long one (e.g. See if she'd sleep around 10) and then try putting her down around 3-3.5 hrs after she wakes from that.
The second option is what worked for my DS. He got too OT when we tried one nap only, even with SEBT.
We used to do this:
Wu: 6am (he was and still is an early riser!)
Nap 1: 9.30-9.45
Nap 2: 1-2.30/3
BT:between 6.30&7
Every LO is different though & some won't go to sleep on a shorter A time, so it's working out which will suit your DD best
I saw you moved nap earlier when you got EW. If you opt for 1 nap and SEBT, try to keep the nap around the same time each day (like a set nap). That can help to keep a routine with it too.
Have you checked out the 2-1 chat thread? There are a couple of people also going through the same thing.
Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #27
Xxx
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Hey,
I have been trying to keep to the long am and try for short Cn or sebt. However now my morning nap has gone wrong. I've had two days of 40/45 mins naps on her usual 4hour 20mins morning A. I have no idea why it's gone wrong... Doesn't seem to be teething or anything else going on. So yesterday ended up 2 40 mins naps as she wouldn't sleep long in the afternoon either!! :(
Any ideas? xx
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Today's naps ended up:
Wu: 6.05am
A
S 10.15 - 10.59, woke up screaming so went in and managed to get her back to sleep 11.15-11.30. Wasn't going to continue to get her to resettle so got her up so total sleep was 55mins
E
A
S 15.37 - 16.12 - again woke screaming
I don't know what has happened as 40 min naps were a thing of the past
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Oh no, sorry your naps have gone wrong. Sounds like she might have built up some OT :-(
Would you consider trying short am/long pm? It looks like she's OT on full first A time but taking a long enough nap to stop her taking a good 2nd one.
i'd try a slightly shorter A time as she's built up some OT, maybe 3.5-4hrs at the most? And cap the nap at 30 mins and see if you get a better 2nd nap.
What do you think?
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I would and will try it today but it's just that I am more likely to go out in the afternoon and she won't sleep longer than one sleep cycle in her pram or car so I am concerned about those days as she would have very little day sleep. However if it was working I would just have to try and get out in the morning.
What A time would you suggest after a 30min sleep? As she has no tired signs until she is overtired, it's like taking a stab in the dark with A times. On a Friday I go out in the morning and she has had usually 20-30 mins in the pram on the way there and I have done 4 hours from waking and it has given me a good nap a few times but does that seem too long? Especially if she has built up ot? Worked out that she has prob lost about 5 hours sleep since Friday.
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Hmm, hard to say....
I see from your first post that she used to do around 3hrs from 30min pm CN to bed, so I'd try starting with that and increase it if she's not settling or not taking a good 2nd nap after that A time.
That said she manages quite long A times so alternatively you could go for middle ground of 3hr30 and increase or decrease depending on how she seems?
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Yesterday's easy was:
Wu: 6am
A
S 10am - 11.25 (cried a little going down but was ok on reduced 4hr A time)
E
A
S 4.07 - 4.37 (cried for 30mins when put down at 3.35. Ended up having to feed her to sleep she was in such a state)
Bt 7.45 (in bed 7.30, 15 mins to settle)
Emw: she's woken at 5.30am this morning and wouldn't go back to sleep :(
I didn't get your post yesterday in time to do short am long pm and today I'm out in the afternoon so will need to do long am short pm
Hopefully the 5.30am was a once off? I've left her in her cot until 6.30am but she's not happy about it :-\
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Should I be trying to remedy this ot in any way I can or focus on trying to get a new routine in place even if that causes more OT? I mean she only slept 9hrs 45 mins at night last night which surely isn't enough. She normally does 11 hours xx
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Should I be trying to remedy this ot in any way I can or focus on trying to get a new routine in place even if that causes more OT? I mean she only slept 9hrs 45 mins at night last night which surely isn't enough. She normally does 11 hours xx
Yes definitely. Can you get her to do a much earlier bedtime if you get a 1 nap day? Or a shorter CN and if she does a 2 nap day in the hope she'll take more night sleep?
I really would try to switch to short am/long pm. I know it feels like a gamble after so much time working on long am but it feels like the long am nap isn't working for her right now as it prevents much later sleep but OT is building up giving you earlier waking, then an earlier nap, then a longer day then more OT.
I think the change in routine might help with the OT too as it gets back to 2 naps with a good 2nd nap (hopefully).
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Ok so she has woken st 5.30am again. What timings would you suggest for short am long pm?
Maybe
Wu 5.30
E
A
S 9.00 - 9.30
E
A
S 1.30 - 3.00 (hopefully)
E
A
S bt 6.30 maybe?
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At 11mo, I'd try the morning nap at 9.30 to try to get out of the EW.
Do you think she needs close to 4hrs A to take a good 2nd nap? I think 1.30-3pm is a good timing of nap to aim for but if she needs close to 4hrs A to sleep then, you might need to cut 9.30 nap to only 15-20mins.
ETA: quick reply as we had a 5.30 wake up too *yawn*!
Xxx
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Oh no poor you! Is that unusual for your household? hope so! Anything with a 5 in the clock isn't fun! Funny how much of a difference that 30mins from 5.30-6am feels. I can cope with 6am no probs ;D
ok I'll try those timings 9.30 and 1.30 and hope for the best. I'll prob do 20mins in the morning as I do think she needs about 4 hours to do a good nap (well she did before this OT hit!) xx
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HI there,
just wanted to jump in and say, that my DS was exactly as your LG. He preferred long AM nap and short PM nap.
I know you're trying something else right now, and obviously go for it if you feel it might be right for her, but just wanted to add, that you posted this before:
The last two days have been:
Wu:6.45 and be
E: solids 8am
A
S 11.05 - 12.25
Refused pm sleep
Bt 6.40pm
Slept through the night until 6.50am
Wu 6.50 with bf
E: 8.10 solids
A:
S 11.10 - 12.30
Refused second sleep:
Bt 6.20pm
Nw: 8pm short cry settled fine, 9.20pm up for 30 mins screaming
Wu: 6am with bf
E: 7.45 solids
S: 10.20 but cried and I had to shhhhh to sleep (usually goes to sleep unaided)
I think these 2 first days were ideal for you. Ultimately, with 2-1, you want to extend this first A time and go up to 12 o'clock, or 1 pm when she's older.
Notice how she started waking later when you extended A time.
I would suggest not waking her up in the morning or first nap.
Are you willing to try something like:
6.30 WU
11 nap#1 she will wake up 12:30-1
then try nap at 4:30 and WU at 5 or 5:15
BT 7
What do you think?
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Hi bella!
Thanks for your input. She was doing well with the long am short pm but I've been really struggling for her to actually take the pm sleep. The pram had been working but then it seemed to stop. I prob would have continued on with the long am short pm even if I could have managed to get 10-20mins sleep out of her in the afternoon but after two days of her refusing the pm Cn, she has become overtired and is now waking at 5.30am and started doing 40mins in the morning.
I managed two bigger morning sleeps this week but I had to reduced the morning a back to 4 hours.
If I can get her back to the 6.15/6.30 normal wake up then I think I'll be more able to get a better routine in place.
If she slept 4.30-5pm, the problem is that she'd not go down at 7pm. It would be about 8pm - usually needs 3 hours from Cn to go to bed ok.
Today I did:
Wu 5.30
S 9.30 - 9.50 (went to sleep fine, short cry but asleep within 5 mins of being put in cot)
E
A
S 13.32 - 14.02, 14.10 - 15.35 (woke screaming, had to go in. APOP with dummy and back to sleep quickly and then resettled until I woke her at 15.35. I didn't know where to let her sleep on or not but it would have pushed bedtime back)
I am aiming for 7pm bedtime? x
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Do you think the 30 mins waking at nap was OT? I thought maybe it was as she went back to sleep so quickly? I'm not sure though
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Someone once told me on this forum that 30min wake ups are OT while 40-45 min are UT.That always worked for us.
I know what you're saying about long am nap now. We hit that too with DS, but I just assumed we're on 1 nap and went with it:/ It wasn't an ideal way as it took him 1 week to adjust and move on. During that time I was extending his first A time and was putting him down at 6BT (despite my DH telling me I'm crazy, but hey, it worked:) So as you can see I'm not an expert. I was trying to go with his natural rhythm, because I knew long am nap was what he needed.
Yes, I would aim for 7pm bedtime if it was me :)
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How did BT go? Fingers crossed for a good night and a later wake up.
I agree with Bella that 30min wu & screaming with it was probably OT, especially as she resettled fairly quickly afterwards. But as you said before she has sleep to catch up and she isn't used to a short am nap.
Personally, I would try short am/long pm for at least a couple more days and see how it goes.
If she's OT at 13.30 after 20 min nap, you could try an earlier 2nd nap e.g. 13.15 or even 13.00?
As Bella says, if short am/long pm doesn't work out for you, you go back to long am once you get a later WU and try an earlier BT.
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Hello!
I got a 7.05 bedtime and she was easy to get down. Quick bf, was getting sleepy so off of boob and into cot. She had a wee short cry (1 min maybe) then sleep for 7.05 so that was good.
I'm pleased with how today went. Felt like she had a decent sleep and could get her to bed at a reasonable time. Thanks for your help so far.
Bella - I was going with the natural flow of her long nap too. I think looking back I should have just pushed it back to get nearer to 12pm start but I was worried about her getting OT - but this happened anyway.
This might be a daft question but my lg doesn't sleep well out with her cot so I'm a bit concerned If I follow short am long pm and have to go out in the afternoon, do you think I can switch it on those days to have long am short pm or will it be too confusing for her?
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My DD is the same...after spending time in the early months teaching cot sleep, that's all she'll do!
I'd try to avoid changing her day around until the routine is established & would try to choose a routine that works and stick to it as much as possible. . I tried to organise our outings and activities around DS' naps as much as possible at this point to keep his routine as he needed that consistency. I remember going on a holiday during the 2-1 though and because of having stuff at different times & travelling he slept some long am naps then no pm or a tiny pm CN. It gave him EW and some OT but we got back to normal when we got home.
At the moment it looks like she won't take a CN with a long am nap, but you could try for one long am nap and an EBT if you have to go out in the afternoon, but it is possible it might give you EW or a bit of OT...but routines needs to have some flexibility to allow for real life and soon get back on track after a few days of consistency.
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So she woke at 6.27am yay! It was 7.05 - 6.27!!! ;D ;D
My question is what timings do I stick to when she wakes at a normal time?
Yesterday I did 4a to am sleep but that would push the day back later again for us.
Was thinking maybe stick to same timings as yesterday even though she woke an hour later? What do you think?
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Hooray for later wake up & a great night sleep!
I'd give the same timings a go...you're only doing a CN at 9.30 so it doesn't matter if she's a bit UT for it as long as she'll go to sleep. I was surprised with my DS that he would settle for sleep at 9.30 during the 2-1, even if he'd showed no tired signs.
If she won't settle, you could try a slightly later CN (10?) but keep time for 2nd nap similar?
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How is today going?
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It was a disaster ???
I had to go out this afternoon as a friend was over from oz and it was the only chance I could get to see her so I arranged for her grand parents to watch her so that I didn't mess her routine up.
Wu 6.30
S 9.45 - 10.05 ( put her down at 9.30 but wouldn't settle herself, had to go in and shhhh her)
E
A
S 13.35 - 14.10 (asked them to get her down for half 1 and she was a little late, cried for 10mins before sleep and woke screaming at 35mins in and they couldn't get her back to sleep)
Bt 5.45 (tried to get her down for half 5 but she took a wee while to settle)
Guess she was overtired again? I had thought because she was up an hour later today the timings might have been ok but maybe need to pull it forward to 13.15 for nap?
I took her a walk in the pram from 3-4 to see if I could get another Cn for her but she wasn't having it
So all in all, a bit of a disaster and I've no idea if she will pick up the sleep in night sleep. Hopefully or else I'm going to be up super early! :)
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Oh no! I hope she does a long night for you.
It sounds like she's a baby who needs a mix of 1 & 2 nap days to get through this transition. So if you get EW, she will probably need a 2 nap day (short am/long pm) to get through but if you get a good night and wu later than 6 then a one nap day, letting her sleep as long as she will, at your longest possible A time (was it 4hr20 that was working for her?) and EBT.
It makes it a real juggle and hard to predict your days but you could also gradually increase her A time on one nap days and eventually it will be enough to do one good nap a day.
*hugs* sorry you've had a bad day today xxx
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Thanks! I'm fine thanks. I've been known to get a bit uptight when she won't sleep but today I just accepted it for what it was.
Yeah it was 4 hours 20 mins in the morning when she was doing ok but then she got overtired so I'm not sure what she can do now. A Friday is the only morning I go out so tomorrow will be a short am long pm day and hopefully it'll go better. I might try going down at 13.15?
Thanks for your help with all of this! it's a hard slog with a baby who shows no tired signs. Suppose that's a bonus today though... Shattered baby but still no real tears!
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She was up for the day at 5.15 so 5.45pm - 5.15am. Not too bad but she didn't really add any sleep on I guess
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Oh no! I'd try to keep her going as close to 9.30 as you can, then do a 2 nap day as you planned and hope for better naps today & a better night tonight.
If she does good naps and night sleep today, maybe try a 1 nap day tomorrow?
Good luck xxx
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Ok thanks
Just one question, will it not be confusing for her to one day do a long am (if one nap day) then the next day a short am / long pm (2 nap day) like I'm confusing her body as she doesn't know when she's to sleep?
xxx
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When going through a nap transition, they sometimes need some 2 nap days still to counteract OT..like she did a couple of days ago. They catch up on sleep and are OK on one nap again. As she doesn't show clear tired signs it makes it hard to follow her lead though so I'd try to judge based on wake up time. It might not even be alternate days..it will be a bit of trial and error to work out what works best for her until she can push her A time long enough for 1 nap consistently.
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An update on today:
Wu 5.15
E
A
S 9.30 - 9.50 (cried a little going down but asleep after 2 mins of being put down, grumpy when woken)
E
A
S 13.15 - 14.50 (sleep cried at 30mins and woke at 40mins crying, went in immediately, APOP with dummy and back to sleep, then I took dummy out)
Bt 6.50 (into cot 6.45 so 5 mins to settle, barely a tear)
I'm not sure if the nap timing is quite right that she keeps waking? I had started the nap earlier at 13.15 rather than 13.30 but got a wake up at 40 mins rather than 30 mins! x
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She's woken at 5.30am though :'( :'( :'(
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I had another disaster day... I'm not sure short am long pm is working? However the timings might still not be correct
Wu: 5.30
E
A
S 9.10 - 9.45 (I'm ill so my dh put her down. Screamed when she went to sleep, had to go in and shhhh) let her sleep on to 35mins as he put her down early)
E
A
S 14.10 - 14.45 (tried to get her asleep for 13.45 but she screamed like mad, had to APOP with dummy and shhhh, woke at 35mins and wouldn't go back to sleep. Tried to get her back to sleep for 45mins. Even tried to bf back to sleep, she wasn't having it at all)
Bt 18.22 (tried to get her down for 18.00 but she was screaming again so took me until 18.20 with shhhh to get her off)
It hasn't been a fun day unfortunately. I'm wondering if I could try to get her to try one nap or if right now with the state we are in if it would be a bad idea?
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I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time. I have just re-read all your posts from the start.
I think you might be right to go back to one nap but also back to going by Atimes. I looked at your very first post and you did a 10am nap after a 5.30 Wu, EBT and got a long night. I wonder if that would be worth going back to trying again? But let her sleep as long as possible for naps and in the morning?
I think she now needs an A time of more than 4hr20, as this had started to give you 45 min naps. I'd try at least 4hr30.
At worst it might shift your whole day earlier so maintain EW...but then you can try shifting nap gradually & bedtime forward.
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My gut is also telling me to try the long am again and sebt or Cn if it seems a possibility. I did 4hours 30 A this morning and unfortunately got a 47 min nap but she didn't really cry going to sleep which was nice after yesterday. We also went to sleep without shhhhh. When I got her she had done a poo too so it's hard to know if the A was correct or not. x
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Yeah, I was re-reading your whole history, and I think she needs long am nap and short pm. I'm sorry I might be recommending this too strongly, but it's just a similar history to ours. Hope you don't mind. When you said your gut is telling you the same, I was sure :)
I agree, that when she wakes up early I would do 2 naps and 1 nap when the WU is close to 7. I think extending A time could be good for her now. How old is she now?
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She's 11.5 months Bella.
Do you think I should push the 4hrs 30mins in the am awake time to 4hrs 40mins? xx
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Thanks Bella, having re-read everything, I agree with everything you said too!
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I think she is old enough to do 1 nap. Lots of the kids are doing that by 1yo. But yes, to get there, you want the nap to fall the middle of the day and last 1.5h to 3h depending on the baby.
I would recommend you reading this:
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
We got a solid no UT/OT day when we got to 5h:/ It really depends on the LO. I don't know what she is doing right now.
Your last posts when you were trying short am naps were not even 4h A time in the morning. Maybe you could start with that? With 4h?
Do you think she can do more?
Look into here:
chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months
It really gives you a perspective :)
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The 4 hour in the morning recently was to get a short Cn early as she needed decent awake time to take a good nap. Before I got into a mess with her, she was doing 4hours 20mins. Two days last week I did long am at 4hours and got 1 hour 20mins but I think it was because she was overtired from the day before. I'm going to try 4.5hours a again tomorrow and see what happens.
Today's was
Wu: 5.45
E
A
S 10.15 - 11.02 (went down easily. Asleep one min after going on cot. stirred at 35mins but continued to sleep, woke at 47 mins didn't cry as such so I left her for 15mins in case she went back to sleep. Then cried and when I went in she had a dirty nappy)
E
A
S 15.44 - 16.20 (cried for 4mins then asleep, woke up herself crying)
Bt 6.50 (went down easily enough, into cot drowsy)
We had to go to a gathering this afternoon so that's why her sleep pm was so late. She showed no tired signs when out until she got a little grumpy at 15.20 so I told my dh to take her home)
Fingers crossed that tomorrow I manage a big am sleep as she is having such little day sleep. It's always been the case if I don't get her am sleep right then the rest of the day doesn't work either!
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That first nap looks UT at 4.5hrs A time, even though she went to sleep easily. You could probably afford to push it a bit longer - 4hr40 maybe and hold it at that for a couple of days before adding 10 more mins if you get a short nap, keep it at that if you get a longer one.
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So today went....
Wu: 5.15
E
A
S 9.50 - 11.15 (went to sleep easily, no crying and went to sleep by herself)
E
A
S 16.12 - 16.37 (took me 40mins to get her to sleep and it took a feed and rocking to get her off. APOP - I've never rocked her to sleep and I don't like doing it but nothing else worked)
Bt 19.03 (went down ok but took a while to get sleepy)
So far she has cried at 20.30, 21.00. Both times she has went back to sleep quickly. Once I had to go up. Not sure if she is over tired crying? She's quite unsettled.
She does have the cold and it's hot so it could be that?
She def doesn't want to Cn and could cope with one nap but I just need to get back to a 6am/7am wake up! Xx
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Would you consider cutting the CN any shorter? I find that a late afternoon CN gives me EW if it's any longer than 15mins.
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Yes I would do that. What a would you have done after a 15 mins Cn?
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My DD is younger and only manages 2-2.5 hrs after a 15min CN...but that might mean you could try AP-ing around same time e.g. 16.15-30 or 16.30-45 & still get a 7pm BT that she is ready for.
I'd keep your first A the same for today & maybe tomorrow too but it looks like she might cope with an increase there too after that to see if you could get a longer first nap
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Yeah I think so too with the am nap.
She woke at 5.30am again! Wonder if it's the cat nap causing it or she needs a few days to adjust? x
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Could be either.. Or even need for more first A! Maybe try as suggested above for today and see what happens. So much trial & error!
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I extended the a to 4 hours 50 mins as the door bell went then she had a dirty nappy.
Wu: 5.35
E
A
S 10.25 - 12.35 (went down ok, stirred at 30mins, woke briefly at 45mins then back to sleep, woke up chatting)
Yay!
What bt would you suggest if I can't get a Cn? 6pm?
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Great Nap- looks like you've hit on a good A time too!
I wouldn't try for CN with that wu time, maybe just quiet time between 4.30-5.
Yeah, give 6pm BT a go...fingers crossed for you and for a good night too!
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So yesterday was:
Wu: 5.35
E
A
S 10.25 - 12.35 (went down ok, stirred at 30mins, woke briefly at 45mins then back to sleep, woke up chatting)
Bt 18.00 (was quite teary going to bed, asleep within a few mins)
Wu: 5.15am (so 18.00 - 5.15 = 11 hours 15mins)
Still such an early wake up! ??? ::) she doesn't seem to be extending her night sleep much! Hopefully she does over the next wee while? Although I'm not sure she will because night sleep plus nap is 13hours 25 mins over 24hours and that is about what she normally does when sleeping well.
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Update:
Whilst ignoring lg this morning she fell back asleep at 6.30
So it went:
Wu: 5.15 (leave to see if she would settle)
E: 5.40 (treated like night feed)
A: 5.50 - 6.30 (in cot dark etc)
S: 6.30 - 7.30
Wu for day: 7.30
Not sure if this will affect her first nap or just stick with 4hours 50mins?
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Sorry have just seen this! I would have stuck with the new A time to get a nap around 12.30... With any luck that will re-set her to a later BT and Wu and hopefully a regular one nap day.
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No worries 😄 I was working today at a keeping in touch day so she was looked after by my SIL.
The day went
Wu: 5.15 (leave to see if she would settle)
E: 5.40 (treated like night feed)
A: 5.50 - 6.30 (in cot dark etc)
S: 6.30 - 7.30
Wu for day: 7.30
E 8am breakfast
A
E 11.15 lunch
S 12.20 - 13.35 (my SIL thinks a door bell woke her up but not sure)
E 3pm snack
A
Bt 19.05 (I tried from 18.35 to get her to sleep but she was upset in the cot and I had to shhhhh her and give her the dummy for a wee bit)
Think she was OT so I'm not holding out for a later wake up :o
I took her out in the car for half an hour about 5pm to see if I could get a 5/10mins Cn but she wasn't interested
Xx
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Hiya ladies,
The last two days I've got a 1 HR 15mins nap from the morning a of 4 hours 50mins.
Any ideas on that? It's not that long a nap to have only one nap a day!
Today was
Wu:6.30
E 8am breakfast
A
E 10.45 small lunch
S 11.25 - 12.40
Yesterday was
Wu: 5.30
E 7.30 breakfast
A
E 11.30 lunch
A 12.20 - 13.35
I tried resettling but she wont.
More a needed in the morning maybe? X
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Hi there,
was there a reason you treated these 2 days differently? I mean she had 2 different A times, but when she woke up later you put her down sooner. She had 5h A time the first time and 7h the other.
Today was
Wu:6.30
E 8am breakfast
A
E 10.45 small lunch
S 11.25 - 12.40
Yesterday was
Wu: 5.30
E 7.30 breakfast
A
E 11.30 lunch
A 12.20 - 13.35
If it was me, I would just try making it more or less the same next 4 days in a row. Any adjustment takes time. Try 5h maybe?
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Sorry I wasn't clear as the times were the same
Yesterday was
Wu: 5.15 (leave to see if she would settle)
E: 5.40 (treated like night feed)
A: 5.50 - 6.30 (in cot dark etc)
S: 6.30 - 7.30
Wu for day: 7.30
E 8am breakfast
A
E 11.15 lunch
S 12.20 - 13.35 (my SIL thinks a door bell woke Her)
So both 4 hrs 50mins. I just thought it was strange to get a 2hr 10 mins nap on that A then the next two days get 1 HR 15mins. I'll maybe try 5 hours A
Thanks xx
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Let us know how it goes :)
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Hiya,
I'm on 5hrs 10mins morning A and having consistently 1 nap.
However the one nap is only 1 hour 30mins.
Today it was 1 hours 40mins but it seems such a small for a wee baby.
I'm on holiday just now though so to be fair she's doing well!
Wu 7.13
E
A
S 12.21 - 14.01
E
A
Bt 19.30 (crying from 19.15-19.30 needed shhhhh)
Yesterday:
Feed 7.00
Wu 8.30
E
A
S 13.34 - 15.05
Bt 19.45 (sleepy on me 19.15 then upset when put in cot and shhhh until 19.45)
Slept through until 7.13 today.
What do you think of length of nap?
Thanks X
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It's great that she's doing 1 nap now, a good night & a later wu time :-)
I know "textbook" one nap is 2hrs but I know of babies who get by on 1hr30-45, especially if she's doing a long unbroken night. You could experiment with a bit of a first A time push to see if it helped lengthen the nap but I'd wait a little to let her settle into this new routine and until you're back from holiday.
Have a great time on your holiday.
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Morning,
Thanks for the reply.
This morning she woke at 6.30am so I do think sometimes I might need to try for a Cn to make it to bedtime but I've noticed if I do a Cn, she does a 10.5 hour night and if I sebt, she usually does 11.5hour night.
I'm finding it hard to keep getting the later Wu so that I can do a one nap day but it's progress for sure and she's doing well at night.
Will keep you posted x
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Hmm, those wake ups are gradually getting earlier again, aren't they? Like they did when she got into an UT/OT pattern last time.
Do you think she could cope with a further first A time push to try for a slightly later, hopefully longer nap?
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Just wanted to let you know, that at the beginning my DS was sleeping around 1h 30 min when started 1 nap. Then it gradually got longer. When got to 4h I understood I need to wake him up because 5am wake up is nothing pleasant :) So do not worry. It will get better :)
I think I would proceed with A time as is, but start BT at 6. What do you think?
I don't think the short nap is an issue, but rather long day. It's just something my gut is telling me :/
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Yes bedtime has been later than planned as she has been crying a bit going to bed which has pushed final bt back by 30mins or so.
Yesterday was
Wu 06.34
E
A
S 11.45 - 13.37 (woke at the 1hr mark, was shhh back to sleep within 5mins)
E
A
S 18.40
Nw 19.20, 19.30 and finally off to sleep at 19.50
Nw 05.30 fed
Wu 7.00
So I think some OT is creeping in - guess it's to be expected.
She's never really done longer than a 12 hour night so although sebt helps with OT, I still tend to get an early wake up as she done sleeping? xx
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Might be.
I feel like this nap is slowly getting longer. While it does, you can push the bedtime later. But slowly :)
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Hi
We had an hour of OT screaming last night where she seemed she was breaking her heart!
Yesterday was
Nw 4.15 fed and back down ok
Wu 6.13
E
A
S 11.34 - 13.00
E
A
Bt 18.40 (went down fine)
Nw 21.00 (screamed for an hour)
Nw 05.30 (fed and back down)
I tried for an hour between 4-5 pm to get a Cn as we are on holiday and were out but it didn't work.
You think I should try to resettle the nap after 1.5 hours? x
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I would say, try resettling for 5 min, but if she's clearly not interested, just stop.
Do you think bringing that nap earlier would help? By 20 min?
What is your gut telling you?
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Initially my thoughts were the same as you that maybe the am A was pushing it a bit so today I brought it back to 5hours 10mins where I had previously got 1hr 40 nap and 1.5 hour nap. Today though I did that and only got 1hr 10mins nap. She woke crying but wouldn't resettle.
Wu: 7am
E
A
S 12.10 - 13.20
So now I'm thinking that maybe the morning A needs pushed out a bit rather than shortened? It does however seem a long time for her to be up!
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Some LOs need a long first A for a good nap, then do a shorter one to bedtime. My DS was older (18 mo) when he finally went to one nap consistently but he would do 7hrs A time (6am-1pm) from wake up to his nap then sleep until 3pm and only do 4hrs until BT at 7pm.
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Whatever you decide to try, I would be hesitant to judge the effect after 1 day. I would say do similar first A time 3 days in a row, and the fourth day would be the effect. Kids need time to adjust.
If you feel like longer A time would work better, go for it :)
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Hi,
The nights still aren't great with one or two night waking.
I'm doing a 5 hour 10mins am A and have done for four days now. I'm only getting a 1hour 20 ish minute nap. She won't resettle (unless I feed her and I don't want to do this as I will be stopping bf soon).
When would you wake to sleep during that cycle? 1hour 10mins maybe?
thanks X
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I'd try that...but if that doesn't work, I also still wonder if a further A time increase would help - maybe just 10mins more at first. 1hr20 is often a slightly UT nap for us.
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Hiya,
I'm loosing the will with my lg and her sleeps. I can't get it right for her!
I thought I'd try and push the A out in the morning as on the way home from holiday, she did 2hours nap on the plane after a 6 hour 10mins Am A. Albeit I was there to shoogle her during the transitions.
Anyway I thought I'd try it out and see but the past two days, I've been giving her food before her nap and she's got really sleepy in the high chair.
The days looked like:
Nw: 4.00am (fed)
Wu: 7.15
E 8.15
A
S 12.22 - 13.54 (was sleepy in high chair at about 12.10. woke at 47 mins, shhh and back to sleep)
Bt 18.30
Nw 4.45
Wu: 6.23
E: 7.30
A
S 11.09- 12.29 (sleepy in high chair about 11, woke crying at 1hr 20)
So it seems she is going back in A time not forward? I know they can get used to going to sleep at a certain time and you need to push them gently through it but getting sleepy in a high chair is so unlike her
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Hugs, the 2-1 is tricky, getting frustrated with it is very understandable. Don't be too hard on yourself, you're doing your best to follow her cues. I'm wondering why she's more tired than normal?
How was her sleep on holiday and was there a time difference? Just wondering if she might be catching up from being away (& that mega long A time on the plane) and that's why she's tired?
Or any chance she might be getting ill? (I only ask because my DD had a virus last wk and was falling asleep in her highchair, also unlike her)
Or any developmental stuff going on that could be tiring her?
I also see she's waking for a feed when she was sleeping through before? Could the night waking be making her more tired in the day?
I wonder whether she needs to hold the 5hrs A until she catches up on sleep?
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She is getting two molars in but other than that I don't think she's getting ill. I give her ibruprofen before bedtime just now.
She was sleeping through but for about 2 weeks now I'm getting a nw between 4am - 5.30am. It's Roughly waking 10hours 15mins after bedtime. I can't get her back to sleep without feeding her. If I feed her, put her back in and leave she'll go back to sleep but if not, she just cries! it's not great when I want to finish bf soon.
Her sleep on holiday wasn't good by her standards. The nw as above and sometimes another one. I was able to stick to her routine roughly as I was staying at a family members house but she was only having one nap which wasn't long enough (usually 1 hour 20mins or 1.5 hours).
I tried w2sleep yesterday but it didn't work but will keep trying. I'll aim for 5 hours morning A and see what that brings.
I've changed my bedtime routine so milk isn't the last thing. She went down fine with it last night but it was the first night of it
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Sounds like she's got a lot going on...& approaching her first birthday too I think? There is a developmental leap around that time that can also throw them off. Maybe see how she does for next few days?
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Hello, I've just read the whole thread and i'm having the same problems, hoping to see what happens with the one nap, I tried it the other day but DS did 30mins then woke crying, gave dummy, another 30mins then crying and wouldn't go back, that was it for the day the back at work so grandparents had him and they stuck to two naps, usually has about 1hr 45-2hrs a day and nights are now short as started waking early and we have got into bad habit last 2 weeks of giving dummy when wakes bout 5:30 and leave him till 7 (presume he goes back for 30 mins at some point as quiet with dummy [we got rid of his dummy at 6months]) he wakes my just turned 3yr old though and I am struggling with sleep so don't want to start the day that early that's why we've caved and given dummy back!! He is 12.5 months old.
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Hi Amanda
The 2-1 is very tricky- as you'll have seen in this thread. If you'd like some support with it, please start a thread in Sleeping for Toddlers, now your LO is over 1yr.
Good luck xxx
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It's driving me mad!
Yesterday was:
Nw 5.35 fed
Wu: 8.05
E
A
S 13.05 - 14.35
Bt 18.50 (wouldn't ss, had to shhhhhh)
Today was:
Nw: 6.05 (fed as woke crying so obviously still tired)
Wu: 6.45 (think she dosed off again for 30mins)
E: 7.45
A
S 11.22 - 12.45 (wouldn't go back to sleep)
E 13.00
A (during this time I tried the car and pram for a catnap but nope!)
Bt 18.20 (wouldn't ss, had to give dummy which I hate)
I tried for 18.00 bt but it took me 20mins to get her off.
Any thoughts on her days scottishmummy before I move my thread to toddler sleep as it was her birthday yesterday
Thanks x
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Still getting inconsistent nap times, wake ups and BT? It looks like the 1.5hr nap length is consistent though?
Only other thing I can think of is to continue to try to wean off the night feed & set a time for first feed so she's getting a full night sleep & a consistent first feed and if that doesn't regulate WU time, then you might want to consider set naps- have a read of this link:
Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When
Happy birthday to your DD, congratulations on surviving the first year!
Xxx
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You are right. nothing is consistent except the 1hr 20 - 1.5 hour nap.
If I wean that night feed she'll wake at 5.30 and I can't get her back to sleep? Least it would be consistent haha!
Thanks for the birthday wishes for her.... Survived the first year....just ;) ;D
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Hmmm a regular 5.30 wake up isn't fun (DD is queen of EW at the moment) but the hope would be that if you wean the NF, set a new later time for first feed (?6.30 with a 5.30 wu?) and push first A time longer on EW mornings/set the nap at 11.30/12ish eventually she might start waking later? That's the theory and hope anyway! Good luck with the rest of the transition, maybe someone in TS can help more?
Xxx
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Babies are funny things aren't they?!?
Bt of 6.20 last night, she woke at 5.05 but went back to sleep without me going in and gas woken at 6.55 ;D ;D ;D
A good night! About 13.5 hours total sleep for the 24hrs which is good for her too.
Thanks so much for your help... Off to TS forum I go. xx
Ps. Hope your ew stops too!