BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: Reethepea on May 27, 2016, 18:42:04 pm
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Hi everyone, I'm wondering if anybody can help. DD 2 is 8 weeks old on Wednesday and I'm really struggling. Since she was 4 weeks old I have struggled with naps(short naps of 30-45 mins and unable to resettle by any means). She is seriously overtired and cries so much and I'm at the end of my tether. She won't sleep in the car or the pushchair, I can normally get a short nap out of her in the sling if I am walking outside, however once we return home she wakes up.She is well and gaining weight. No signs of reflux. She is bottle fed breast milk and formula. Swaddled for all naps and night time sleeps and uses a dummy.
Our easy is roughly like this
Eat: Wake up 5.30am bottle fed 150ml of formula
Sleep- tried to put her in the Moses basket, wide awake, smiling, left as happy but did not sleep.
Activity at 7am I got her up, figured I would feed her at 8am and try again
Eat- 100mls breast milk
Sleep 8.20 took 20 mins to settle slept for 40 mins woke up crying(tried to resettle as clearly still tired, with dummy and placing a hand on her chest) she hates shush pat and just screams. Unsuccessful.
Activity- 9.15am
Sleep 10am- 45mins unable to resettle
Eat 11am
Sleep 11.30am for 30 mins- unable to resettle. By this point DD 1 is bored and we have errands to do.
I was hoping she would settle in the car but only did a maximum of 10mins sleep.
This went on until 16.30 pm when she had a complete melt down. Hubby came home from work- fed her and managed to get her in bed asleep by 18.30 pm. She is clearly exhausted and I'm completely demoralised. I'm dreading tomorrow :(
I forgot to mention we will dream feed at between 22 and 22.30pm- she usually sleeps till 5.30am
Any insight would be great. Easy was a complete game changer with DD 1 and turned her from grumpy to gorgeous in less that a fortnight but struggling with the opposing needs of two.
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Hi there,
I hope I will be able to help, but please feel lots of support coming your way. I know there beginnings can be hard on everybody. She is very little and getting to know the world and learning how to do things.
I do have questins:
1. Is she draining her bottles? When she sleeps well at night, it also means she has to eat more during the day.
2. Sorry, I didn't fully understand your routine:/
So she had bottle at 5:30, lied down till 7, ate at 8, you put her down 8:20?
What I can suggest right now is try to feed her once in EASY cycle. At the beggining some newborns can feel discomfort when fed right before sleep.
Try something like this tomorrow:
5:30 WU and feed, full feed when she leaves some milk in the bottle
Put her down and act like it's still nighttime, this way you can turn 5:30 into nighttime feed hopefully, or breakfast if you're lucky:)
If she doesnt fall asleep get up and give her at least 30 min full play time on the blanket, swing with toys.
7:30 actively try to put her down again.
....
Basically, try to keep the cycles 3h long. Keep her no more than 2h from eyes open till eyes closed.
Do you think you can try that?
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Thank you so much for reply. In response she often drains the bottle and if she does I offer her more. I'm going to give your suggestion a go tomorrow. I try and see the 5.30 waking as a night feeding but she having none of it. To make matters worse dd1 wakes at 5.45-6 and starts yelling or whistling for me lol. Hubby is home tomorrow so I will definitely try your suggestions.
I never thought of just giving her 30 mins of A time if she doesn't settle.
It's tricky as I'm expressing milk and first thing in the morning they are so painful if I don't empty them Asap. It's proving more and more difficult with her not settling to be able to get this done.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I will let you know how we get on 😊
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Hi, I can sympathise completely as my now 6mo was exactly the same! I felt like all I was doing was trying to get him to sleep.
I gave up on anything but getting him some sleep until we could get more reliable naps and nights. For us, that meant all naps were in the sling until around three months. Tip: sit on a yoga ball and bounce if you don't want to be walking around. Saved my knees! The good thing about the sling naps is that it allowed me to get an idea of his A time (since he could choose when to drop off) and therefore I knew pretty early on that he was LSN. No surprise, his brother is, too.
He did grow out of it, and we are doing ok with sleep now. It's been a longish road to independent sleep but that's also because I've taken it slowly and gently for my own sake.
Hth!
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Waiting to hear how everything will turn out :)
Keeping my fingers crossed!
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So, a little update from over the week end. We had some success on Saturday. Our EASY looked like this
E- 4am
Back to sleep by 5am
Wu-6.40
Eat- 7am
Activity
Sleep by 8am- woke at 45mins settled after 39 mins
Eat 10am
Activity
Sleep 11am
Eat- 1pm
Activity
Sleep 1.5 hrs whilst out
Eat 4pm
Activity
Sleep- Nil as driving
Wind down and bed time routine
Eat 18.30
Sleep 18.45
DF- 22.00
Felt really positive yesterday as although she didn't sleep from 16.00 -18.45 she did take better am naps and I was able to resettle. Today however was awful. Feeling utterly demoralised. We stayed at home today so we could concentrate on naps, however Dd1 has been playing up as bored 😩😢
So today's EAsy was;
NF 4.30
WU 6.45
E 7am
A
S 8- woke at 8.50- unable to resettle, I gave up at 9.40
E 10
A
S 10.30- woke at 11.15- resettled till 12.45
E 1pm
A
S 2pm- woke at 3pm after 45mins unable to resettle, so got up at 4pm
E 4pm
A
S 5pm- 30 mins- unable to resettle. Cried for 30 mins unable to comfort. Seemed happier when offered some water(offering at gp's advice mixed feeding and no bm for 2 days)
Bedtime routine and bath- she was happy and smiling
E- 18.30
Sleep 7pm
Utterly exhausting, no decent time spent with dd1 and no time to do any housework.
If she only sleeps for 45 mins how long should I make her next a time?
I'm so confused and feel that we have wasted this beautiful day sat for most of it trying to resettle in a darkened room.
Nb we have made sure that she is well fed and always leaves some of her bottle. She is 8 weeks tomorrow .
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I too am struggling with 45 min naps since about 6 weeks old! (She is 11 weeks tomorrow). Have you tried extending A time at all? I see you have mostly a 60 min A time, perhaps an hr 5 or 10 min might make a diff. I'm playing around with diff A times right now to figure it out. I also have a 2.8 year old, and also can't stay inside all day trying to get my NB to sleep, so if she wakes up at the 45 min mark, I have my sling ready and I pop her in and go outside. She usually falls asleep again within 20 min and I get another 30 min sleep out of her. I found this really helpful!! I also shield her face when we are out to block stimulation (as she is a very alert baby and wants to play with her sister haha). I just posted a thread of 45 min wakeups too to see what ppl have to say.
Hang in there, the 4th trimester (as they call it) is very difficult especially without a napping baby and a toddler to chase around. I'm trying to be a littler more flexible. I also read on a thread here that some moms end up doing 5-6 cat naps a day to get in sleep while they have to tend to their other kids. Eventually they link up sleep cycles and it gets easier. So you may have to adjust EASY for now with added cat nap when your babe does short napping and go with it.
Hope this helps! Interested to see what others say.
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I agree with PP, are you willing to add 15 min to her activity times? I.e. if she WU at 6:45 and you see no signs of being tired, adding that A time can help. I would start with that.Notice how she is getting more tired later in the day, hence longer naps.Increasing A times can help.
Oh Honey, please don't torture yourself with trying to resettle for so long. Someone advised me once to create 25 min rule. If LO doesn't want the sleep you offer it's pointless to try and try.
That being said, try to get as close to the normal A time as possible. For example, if she would be active for 1h and 15 min after a good nap, try making it at least an hour. But watch her closely, is she is rubbing her eyes a lot of she gives "single screams". It means time to go:)
I know it's not that easy with the second one. Try working on it as much as you can. Remember that there is only so much we can do, and it's normal and ok. I know you must be tired, but hang in there.
PS. When she sleeps, are her palms open or does she hold fists? That's on another topic. Palms open-ok, fists closed-means trouble with relaxing.
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Thank you so much ladies. I'm going to try and stretch her a time a little. Will also apply the 25 min rule and take her out in the sling if I can't resettle.
I'm not sure about the fists because she is swaddled but will take note next time 😊. Thank you again. Knowing I'm not the only one definitely helps.
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Oh I am sure you're not!
Even with second time mammas it's just a matter of knowing the baby, and it can take time and lots of trying:/
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Hi ladies,
I'm back again after a reletively successful couple of weeks. First of all I have pushed A time to around the 1hr 20 mark on occasion 1 hr 30. We are still getting the dreaded 45 min nap at least once per day but she was doing at least 1 2 hour stretch at lunchtime 😊, she was also mainly settling for naps with minimal intervention. This made such a difference to the day and made life with dd 1 much easier. However what a difference a day makes. Today she has had just 1.5hrs of day time sleep 😩
Are EASY looked like this
Wu-6.30
E-6.45
A
S 8am
Wu 8.45am tried to resettle but cooing and smiling- bought downstairs was happy
E- 9.30
Skipped activity as so tired
S- tried to settle at 10, fell asleep at 10.45
Wu 11- what is that about
I admit at that point I gave up. I had promised my dad I would see him today and dd1 was getting bored.
Got to my dads and she was tired, gave me 3 big yawns so I tried to get her to nap in my arms. Think we got 10 mins at most.
E-12.45
Arrived home at 13.30(cried In The car on the way home) taken straight up to bed. Cried a lot and pood hence the reason took so long to settle
S- 2.45-3.15pm tried to resettle but crying escalated
E-3.40
Attempted to get her to sleep at 4pm but gave up at 5 as crying hard when held or in cot but happy when up.
She wAs happy up for the rest of the afternoon/ early evening
Bath and bedtime routine from 6pm finally got her asleep by 7.40pm
She is 11 weeks old today. Any thoughts other than obviously overtired??? X
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She definitely feels OT, but do you think it can be the heat outside or something else bothering her?
I wonder what threw her off:/
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Aggghhhh 45 min naps all day... Very overtired bubba and frazzled mummy :)
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Is it as hot where you are as it is in Poland? OMG my DS sleep is all over the place:(
Did anything improve? Do you want to post your routine?
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Hi, thanks for your reply. It is quite muggy here(the bedroom has been 26 degrees with the windows open) . I'm not sure but I think we have just finished a wonder week. Her naps were terrible with lots of fussing in the bottle for 3 days 😱. However today so far has been great she woke at 8am has has 1 X 2hr nap(I went in at 45 mins and replaced her dummy), and is currently done 1hr and 15mins with no intervention. I really can't second guess this girl. The differences today is she slept in till 8, she starts fussing at 1hr 15 a time so I took her upstairs and she has been asleep by 1hr 25 😊. It is also cooler(the bedroom says 22 degrees)
I'm sure this is not the end of my gorgeous girls fun but want to thank everyone who has posted support and making me feel more sane x
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We're always here if you need anything :)
Good to hear everything is going better :)
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Hi again ladies, I'm after some more advice. Our EASY has gone to pot and I'm not sure where to start. The problem started just after she hit 12 weeks. She is now exclusively formula fed and was refusing or only taking an once of milk a time when offered to eat 3 hourly. I initially moves her to 3.5 hourly but by time we battled to get her to eat it was 4 hourly. I thought I would roll with it and on days when naps are good this isn't a problem but when naps are bad(45 mins) and unable to resettle. The whole thing goes out the window. She is now refusing her bedtime bottle and just wants to sleep.
Our easy yesterday looked like this
Wu and e- 6am
A
S 7.45
E-10am
A
S-11.45
E-2pm
A
S-catnapped in car- tried to continue in cot at home but failed gave up at 3pm
A
S offered nap again at 4pm gave up at 4.45
She was completely grumpy by 5.30 so bedtime routine started, refused to eat at 6pm- cried hysterically every time offered, settled with dummy and asleep by 6.15pm
I was expecting her to wake later so I could offer feed but she didn't.
22.30- dd
Today was similar although we have had lots of 45 minute naps- resettled then got another 30mins out of her. We also got a cat nap between 4 and 4.30pm but bedtime was the same issue as yesterday- no feed taken 😢.
She is 14 weeks on Monday. Thank you in advance x
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I think she was too tired to eat there, honey.
Is she taking full portions now?
so, the nap was 11:45-2:00?
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Yes, the nap was till about 13.45pm but woke at the 45 min mark and needed resettling.
We are going to try for a cat nap at 5 today, wake at 6 offer first half of feed then bath then other half of feed and then bed at 7. That's the plan anyway. We will see what baby girls ideas are.
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Even with resettling, it's a good nap:/
I know they say feeding is better to be after bath, but I know I never did that with DS.
I think you guys are slowly coming into 4mo sleep regression unfortunately.
If adding some A time didnt work, I think I would just try to be persistent with timings and kind of wait it out. If she is healthy and has no other discomfort.
Sorry, I probably didn't offer any constructed advice.
Maybe someone else will help more. :(
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Hi again, thank you for responding. Today I have taken a big risk. After letting her catnap last night she was asleep by 7.45pm. No tired signs through the bed time routine and drifted off with minimal fuss. She did 1.5 hrs A time on a 45 min nap.
So today she woke at 6.30am but I didn't get up till 7 and she fed well. I have bought her down stairs and thought I would just crack get on with the chores of the day and just observe. Dd2 did not give me any tired signs or fussing till the 1hr 55 mark. I took her up to bed at 8.25 am and she was asleep by 8.35 with a little fussing and crying- let's see what this nap brings. I'm imagining it will be 30mins 😔 As I pushed it too far. I will keep you updated x
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You might be suprized! I'm curious, after all she was up only 2h. That would be my plan-push A time a little.
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Well after 2 hour a time we had a 45 min nap 😩. Today we have had 2 X 45 min naps and she has been awake since 11.45. We had to go out and didn't get in till 3.15pm so I have put her down for a nap. She Has been down 10 mins and has spent the time shouting- not crying just shouting at me 😂 Looks like she is drifting off though.
And another 45 min nap😩
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Hi,
sorry to hear that:( How are you now?How was yesterday?
I'm on vacation and have bad internet, but I will try to help as soon as possible.
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Hi, we have definitely hit the 4 month sleep regression but she is also in a wonder week.. Multiple night waking for dummy and awake at 4-5 am for a feed. However 2 hours a time seems to suit dd2 at present(she is 15 weeks on Monday).we are getting at least 1 2hr nap per day and 2-3 45min- 1 hr naps and she is usually in bed asleep with minimal fuss between 6 and 7.
Over the weekend we are going to move her to the travel cot as she is running out of room and moving more in her sleep. I often find her wedged at the side of the Moses basket when she wakes.
Our easy yesterday looked like this
Night feed 5am
Slept till 7.15am
E
A
S- 9.15- 11.15
E
A
S catnapped in car
E- 13.30
A
S 14.00-15.00
A
E- offered at 4pm but didn't want it
A
S 16.14-17.00
E
Bedtime routine
E
S by 7pm
Df 22.15
4 x night waking so settled with dummy
So today so far:
4.30am NF
Wu 7am
E
A
S. 9.05- 11(I woke her up)
A
I really appreciate your continued support and hope you are enjoying your vacation x
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I think you are right to say she might be in a regression. The routine does not look "not fitted" for a baby at that age when I looked at it :/
Plus night wakings are a sign of that. Did she learn how to roll over recently maybe? That is a factor sometimes.
If it doesn't go away, try adding 15-20 min to A time that brings 45min nap, so the one in the afternoon. But you seem to know your baby very well :)
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So for 3 days this is what has worked. Not ideal but bubba is very happy. Wakes between 5 and 6 for a feed. If wakes at 5 is happy to go back to bed for between 45 mins and 1.5 hrs. A time 2 hours. 1st nap now 2 hours so goes down for a nap usually between 8 and 9 am. We then go out and I make sure I'm back for at the latest 2pm(she is happy whilst out with the occasional catnap 20 mins max in car seat or buggy) I then put her down and she will sleep for another 2 hours. The latest I let her sleep is till 16.30 pm. Bedtime is between 18.00-1900, depending on how she is.
I cannot believe how much a time she has to have to get good naps. But hey she's happy dd1 and I get some time together. We shall see how it goes :)
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Sounds like you've found your routine :)
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I spoke too soon. The saga continues ... Our day so far
Wu5am for feed- tried to get back to sleep but smiling, happy and chatting got up at 6am
A
S7-8
E 8(took 40mls 😩
A- dropped dd1 to nursery and errands to run)
E 10 full feed taken
A
S -11-11.45 unable to resettle but grumpy within 30mins of wake up
A
S13.15-1400(I put her to bed earlier then normal a time as so grumpy)
E full feed taken
A
I will try and put her up for another nap after I pick dd1 up from nursery but something is still going on 😿
Am I expecting too much or are my expectations too high?
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I don't think you do, to be honest. How old is she now?
I think just stick to the original plan and see how she does tomorrow.
Hmm... I wonder about this happy morning wake up. It really sounds to me like she was just well rested. How long did she sleep for?
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Hello again, thanks for the reply. She is 16 weeks on Monday. That night she was in bed asleep by 18.45pm. It seems that the 5am wake up
Is here to stay for the mo. I can accept that being as her last nap ends at 16.30 so she is so ready for bed by 18.30. Do you think when I can push bedtime later that she may sleep later?
She is so happy at that time. Our day is so much better structured if I can get her back to sleep after that early feed. If we start our day she sleeps through her next feed. I have tried to offer the feed before she goes down for her 1st nap but she is not interested.
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Sometimes when they are little their feeding times during nighttime falls so close to wake up that we're both confused-moms and LOs.
If it was me I would feed at 5 and try to resettle. At the same time I would ad 15 min to this first A time of the day rather than last.This way BT will be later. IF she is fine with BT at 6:30 pm than what's the harm in it :)
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So I'm back after some good and bad weeks. Dd is now 19 weeks and we are going from bad to worse 😩. I had my fingers crossed that we might be nearing the end of this sleep nightmare but apparently not.
Yesterday despite my best effort
5am nw-
E-6
S-7-9
A
E 10
A
S 11- 12.30
A
E 2pm
A
S 14.30 but didn't settle till 14.45-15.15- tried till 4pm to resettle
A
E and bedtime 6pm
Woke at 9pm resettled
Df 10pm
Nw- 3am, tried to resettle with dummy then attempted to offers feed but refused.
Fussed until 4.15am woke at 5am-self settled till 7am
So today's easy
Wu 7
E
A
S 9.15-11.15(I woke her to ensure a decent lunch nap as collecting dd1 from nursery at 3pm
E
A
S 13.30-14.20
E
A
S- offered at 15.45 as I rubbing but refused
A
S- put down at 16.20 but cried and moaned till 16.45 when fell asleep
Do you think she needs an a time push. I'm beginning to get fed up as she clearly is not getting enough day time sleep
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Hi there!
They keep changing, don't they, good and bad weeks are the story of our first year with both of mine.
It sounds like she's still taking a good first nap at 2hrs A time.
I think I would try to keep first nap at 2hrs A time, if you get a wake up around 7. If you get EW I would try everything to resettle to sleep and not get her out of bed until 7 and then try to get the first nap starting as close to 9 as possible.
I would let her sleep as long as she needs for first nap- she might be needing the catch up..then try an A time increase before the 2nd nap- maybe try 2hr15 for a few days then up to 2hr30 if naps still short?
You might also need an A time push before the 3rd nap too. Looks like she's not falling asleep until 2hr15 then so I'd aim for that at least.
Can you try to AP the 3rd nap if she's refusing it? I found I needed to do this with both of mine during this transition and often just do a very short 3rd nap, depending on how long other naps have been.
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Thank you so much for your reply. I will give your suggestions a go. We did finally get a 45 min nap for the 3rd nap and put bedtime at 7.30pm- she was fine with that and settled well. Fingers crossed 😊
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Maybe the later BT will give you a later wake up?
My fingers are crossed too!
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Today has been a disaster. I feel so defeated. Bad naps = bad nights 😢
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Oh no! It's a tough transition, big hugs. Tomorrow is another day...
Feel free to post your EASY for today if you want to chat through it
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So Thursday's easy was:
Nf 5.30am, tried to resettle but didn't sleep up for day at 7am
A
E
A
S 8.45-10.15
A
E
S put down at 12.45 but fussed till 1- 2.40pm
E
A
S offered at 5pm but declined
A
E
S6pm
Nw at 8.30pm easily resettled with dummy
Df 10pm.
Today
Nw at 3am resettled easily
Nw 5.15- resettled with dummy
Wu 7.15
E
A
S put down at 9.20 took till 9.35- 11
E
A
S 13.45-2.20pm(put down later due to being out and about) unable to resettle crying and clearly tired
A
E
S 16.30- gave up at 5.15 as chatty and happy
A
E
S 6.30pm
I'm aware that the short ltn was prob OT. Quick insight in the last A time she rolled from back to front then front to back which is new and I wondered if related. I really do appreciate your insight. It's just so frustrating when you plan your day and dd1's days around naps that are short 😢. Sorry for the rant.
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So today has been better
Wu6am
E
A
S8.10- 10.30
A
E
A- became really grumpy and escalated to crying- fell asleep in my arms after only 1.5hrs activity(odd on the fact that she hasn't fallen asleep in my arms since she was 10 weeks old)
S12-12.30
A
S put down at 14.30 but chatty and smiley, I gave up at 3 and had quiet activity
A
S 15.30-16.15
E
A
I will aim for bedtime at 18.30- 7pm
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Glad today was better. Looks like she had some sleep to catch up on today, hence the shorter 2nd A time. Looks like 2hrs first A is working and maybe 3hrs between end f 2nd nap and the 3rd CN but I think 2nd A time still needs some working out. Maybe try 2hr30-45?
See how she goes at BT and whether you get EW tomorrow. I found I needed to cut the CN shorter as the transition progressed to avoid EW, even if it meant a slightly earlier BT sometimes.
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Thank you for taking the time to add some insight 😊
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Lol, we have already had bedtime shenanigans so I think your right that the catnap def has to be shorter 😩
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Oh dear... I'd probably try a 30min 3rd nap another day and BT about 3hrs after waking.
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We've been playing around with the short nap at around 4.30pm - I let it go to length or shorten as needed as my son has around 2-2.5 hours awake time. If he catnaps on 2nd sleep I will give longer latr afternoon nap. If he does like today sleep full 2 hours for both sleeps I'll make it a short nap of 15 minutes to preserve bed time.
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So yesterday I thought we had done well: our easy looked like this but we had a very chatty night waking from 1.30-2.30 am. Any insight?
Nf- 5am
S-6-645
A
E
S 9.10-11.30
E
A
S 2pm-3.30pm
E
A
S .6.60pm
Df 10pm
Nw 1.30-2.30- happy and chatting.
She was grumpy yesterday despite good naps not sure if it was the heat. Any ideas what that night waking was??
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Hi I know Scottishmummy has been supporting you, she's not online for a few days so I'm helping out on her posts so forgive me if I ask anything which has already been discussed.
How old is your LO now? 5 months?
Chatty NW are usually UT. Your EASY yesterday did look good. The typical amount of day sleep at this age is around 3 hours so could be that she had a touch too much. I would aim for a similar day again today and see if that NW was a one off or if it repeats in which case we can try and tweak.
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Thanks for the quick reply- she is 21 weeks- nearly 5 months 😊
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I thought chatty night waking was under tired but that girl made me work for her a times yesterday she was so, so grumpy. I had to wake her after every nap. I'm going to cap her morning nap to no more then 2 hours and then try for an hour afternoon. I will see how it goes. She's fab but definitely is keeping me on my toes 😊
So after 2.5 hrs a time her 1st nap was 45 mins today. So I should up her a times really??
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Yes they like to keep us on our toes don't they!
It does sound like she might need a little push before that first nap.
My DD2 was very grumpy too yesterday which i put down to the heat.
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So today on 2.5 hrs between naps we have had 2 X 45 min naps. What with the night waking and the 5 am start I'm shattered. Dd2 is not too happy either. Think I'm going to have to opt for an uber early bedtime 😢
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I'm a big fan of EBT on bad nap days. We too will be doing the same as we've had a 30min and 45 min today. My fault though as we've been out and about so she has napped on the go.
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Looks like she might be ready for another A time push if you're getting 45min naps on 2.5hr A times. Maybe try 2hr45? The closer you get to 3hrs between naps, the closer you are to 2 naps :)
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Agree with increased A time. Those naps appear to be splitting.
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Thank you everyone, I have pushed a time to 3hrs in the morning- that gets us a 2 hour nap. Today she catnapped in the car so just refused a nap at 2pm but I will try again at 3. I just can't believe her A times. They seem really long for 21 weeks. But if she has long naps then she is really happy till her next one.
this is our easy today. I woke her from her last nap at 4 to preserve bedtime at 7 however she was really grumpy and I think I have pushed her too hard. It's now 6pm and she was crying hard so hubby is putting her to bed.
Our easy today was
Wu 6am
E
A
S9-11
E
A
S catnap(no more then 15 mins in the car at 1pm) declined nap at 2- laughing and chatting in cot
A
E
S3-4pm
A
S- hubby doing bedtime routine as I type
So if she has more than 3.5 hours daytime sleep we have chatty night wakings hence trying to make sure not too much daytime sleep. However if she had gone down at 2 I would of let her sleep for 1.5 hrs and bedtime would have been 6.30. I'm not sure if putting her down at 6pm will impact on our night but she needed to sleep. Is early bedtime OK in the 3-2 transition?
I'm sorry this thread is still going on and is getting a bit lengthy x
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Hi
The 3hr A time and 2 hr nap on that looks great! Looking at your day, I think the 15min car nap meant she wasn't tired enough to nap at 2, but then got OT with a long afternoon. I'd try for 3hrs A time before both naps again (hopefully she'll manage to stay awake for it!) and see how she does.
And yes, EBT is fine & often necessary in the 3-2.
You might find that in the early stages of going to 2 naps she can actually do more daysleep and still do a good night...I'd be tempted to try up to 2hrs for both naps at first (with her awake by 4pm) especially with her being only just 5mo so doing this transition a little early, and see how the night goes.
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When my almost 5 month old transitioned from 4-3 he wasn't staying awake long enough to justify doing it. Same as now. He is trying to transition 3-2 at under 5 months and he is pushing me to drop that late nap. During this time bedtime is brought forward and he has a longer night. I've just made sure he feeds well and has a good dreamfeed and he has been getting through without issues. I go on need and am not fixed to a schedule. If it doesn't work then go back to what you were doing before, all that happens is 1 early wakeup.
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Thanks everyone. Irene when is your little one 5 months? Today we have had 2 decent naps and bedtime will be 6.30 ish but I'm open for reading her cues as she is not shy about expressing her needs 😊
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My boy is 5 months in 3 days :)
I just observe and on the days when he doesn't have a good 2nd sleep then he needs a longer late afternoon catnap. On the days he he has 2 good sleeps the late catnap is miniscule and way too late in afternoon to maintain approximately 7pm bedtime so I'm having to cut the nap really short or not have it at all and bring bedtime forward. Problem is that he is awake maximum 2 hours 40 minutes when to drop the sleep he really needs to be awake 3 hours. So I bring bedtime forward. It makes sense to have a longer night by a bit than to make the day too long, leading to OT baby and dream feed issues.
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Ahhh my girl is 5 months I the 4thvery close in age 😊. Yesterday was good for naps but she fell asleep on her bedtime bottle, then woke 15 mins later wide awake and full of it. She didn't then resettle till 7.45pm 😩. Today she woke at 6.20am and was in bed by 9.10 am due to mega(I'm assuming OT meltdown) so we will see how the day pans out. Good luck. I just can remember these times with dd1
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I have similar issue with my DD dozing on the BT feed if she's tired then being UT when we put her into her cot. To avoid this, I have to give her milk around 6.15 for a 7/7.30 BT- I.e. We do milk before her bath as first step in BT routine.
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Thank you. We switched routine and gave her milk before starting bedtime routine. That worked well so we will continue. Thank you x
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Aggghhhh dd2 is so grumpy and seems to be regressing on A time. We haven't even reached the next wonder week yet and I certainly haven't seen much of 'the sunnier side of my babies personality. Our easy has been all over the place. We were doing 3 hours of a time but I must of pushed her too hard as we had some major OT meltdowns so today I was going to try 2.45 however I have put her down at 2 hours as desperate for sleep. I know this will lead to a 45 min nap but I don't know what else to do.
So Wednesday night we had Nw from 12-2(fed at 1 when unable to resettle- 100mls taken)
Wu &6.15 but grumpy before I even got her out of her cot. I fed her and she resettled till
Wu 8.30
A 2hr 45
E
S 11.15-12.45
A- 2hrs 30
E
S15.15- 16.40
E
A
E
S19.15
Just a note we had a relative look after dd2 yesterday whilst we took dd1 out for the day so a times are inconsistent as I told her to go with the flow.
Nf 4am
Wu 8
E
A
S10.15 ?
I'm sure she is teething but no signs yet. Using teething gel and Ashton and parsons. I'm not medicating as of yet as she hates medicine and forcing her to swallow it causes major meltdown.
Any encouraging words would be welcome.
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I found my DD's A times went up & down a bit at this stage too..increase during the developmental leap, then we're shorter again between leaps
Sounds like you are observing her, listening to her and adapting to meet her needs. It's all you can do & it's fine & normal to change A times up & down as she need you too
The inconsistency is frustrating, I know, but you're doing a great job
Xxx
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Thank you for the support. Napping and night wakings are now all over the place.
We have had a 2 hour night waking after dream feeds and 2 further night wakings at 3 and 4 am. Up for the day at 6.30am.
I have had to put her A time up to 3 hours again as 2.45 was giving me 40min naps. It's tricky at the mo as dd1 is doing her half days in reception this week so napping has to fit in with the school run.
I think for a few days I will just watch her as unless she is compleatly exhausted at present she is fighting sleep and short napping. My anxiety levels are high as she needs the day sleep in order for us all to sleep well at night but im struggling to find a solution as her A times are so high for her age I'm scared to up them more. We still haven't sorted the OT mess of 3-2 and I just don't want to make things worse. I will watch her for a few days and then post her easy if that's ok.
I'm sorry I just needed to share
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Sounds like possible OT to me...more NWs and short naps. Yes observe for a bit, but could she need some shorter A times to catch up on sleep?
Could also be a developmental leap?
Is she on solids now? Just wondering whether any foods could be upsetting her/causing discomfort & therefore disrupting sleep?
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My boy is the same age approximately - if you follow the Wonder Weeks it's definitely leap 5 which is a big one and night wakings etc are common. We are doing okay here but day sleep has been a bit inconsistent recently. We are just rolling with it. I'm not stressing out over a catnap instead of a sleep and trying to remain consistent. I.e. no night feeds, resettling if needed. There's a lot going on. Last Friday night my son had a meltdown due to overtired, I thought he'd slept longer but he must have laid in bed d bed and not gone back to sleep so in early evening he had a massive meltdown and wouldn't have feed before bed. This affected dreamfeed and then early waking at 5am due to hunger so I allowed 1 night feed, was a bit careful and kept it quiet next day and back to normal routine again. Being a bit flexible atm is helping a lot. I'll even get babe to nap in carrier etc and just follow his tired signs even if it means he doesn't make the 2 hours 45 minutes he "should" be making as he is making so many developmental discoveries atm.
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Thank you ladies. You have helped put it in perspective. To answer I have not yet started her on solids. I think she has started the wonder week. I always notice that she becomes quieter and more observant. She has achieved so much in the last few weeks. She can now sit unsupported for around 5 mins, she is doing stomach crunches in attempt to sit when she is on the changing mat or bouncy chair 😊.
She fought her morning nap when I put her down at the 2.45 min mark, fell asleep at 3 hrs for 45 mins.
Her afternoon nap(when I wrote this post) she woke at the 40 min mark but fell back asleep- so it was 2hrs, she was asleep for the night at 2.45 min a time. She slept well with 1 Nw at 4 am(1hr) then fell back asleep.
I really am trying to go with the flow but admit I do struggle x
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Hugs, it is hard when they keep changing and confusing us! Then getting grumpy about it!
Sorry, I thought she was 6mo already but seeing your signature she's still under that. Sounds like 3-2 transition craziness..at least she got a good amount of day sleep overall today. Fingers crossed for a good night too
Xx
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My boy just cut his first tooth. Explains his grumpiness and clinginess....
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Hi again ladies, so I have been observing my little one and this is my easy for the last few days.
Thursday
Nw 4-5 chatty
Wu 6.30
E
A
S 8.45-9.45(fell asleep in pushchair on way back from school after 2.20 a time)
A(3hrs)
E
S1-3.15pm
A
E
S.615pm
Df 10pm
Friday
Nw @3am for 45 mins very chatty
Wu 6.30
E
A2hrs 45
S 9.15-10
A
E
S12.15-3pm
A
E
S 6pm
Nw @9pm
Df 9.30
Nw 11.30- resettled
Saturday
Nw2.30 resettled with dummy
Nw 4-5 chatty
E
Wu 8am
E
A
S 10.30-11 in pushchair
A
E
S 12.30-3
A
E
S 6.15
Nw9.30
Df 10
1 X Nw & 2.45-3.45 happy and high pitched screatching. Declined a feed and resettled independently.
I have let dd2 guide me with her a times but I can't seem to find a pattern. She went down for today's nap at 10am after 3hrs a time. Anything obvious??
P.s Irene exciting news about the tooth. It's such a relief when you can find a cause for their grumpyness 😊
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Hi! I know the timings vary a bit but your days look good to me..you have a general pattern of a short morning nap and a long early afternoon nap. I think you're doing the right thing by following your DD's cues rather than worrying too much about exact A times as it seems to be getting her the sleep she needs. I remember my DS did a similar pattern at this age too.
I wonder if your NWs are developmental? It sounds like your DD is working on a lot of new skills right now.
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Thanks for your reply. How much day time sleep should I be aiming for. It usually falls between 2.5-3.5 hours. Obviously the 2.5 is at the lowest end x
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I agree with ScottishMummy. The routine looks like shorter morning sleep and longer afternoon sleep. Following cues is pretty important and it looks like this is your child's natural sleep pattern. As for the NW... just keep being consistent and resettle. I'm sure it is developmental as I don't think there is too much day sleep happening there. Withthe NW are you resettling without a feed? I also see you've transitioned to 2 sleeps a day. If your child hasn't started solids it may be an additional bit of food is needed too during the day,you might need to go by feel as to if extra food is needed. My boy is moving in the 3-2 transition and is taking 5 feeds and I notice you have 4 feeds a day only? Something to think about.
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Thank you it's good to look at different perspective. I try to avoid feeding on Nw's if I can as 9 time out of 10 she doesn't want it. We do 4 feeds plus the dream feed(this may not be clear in my log). She never finishes a bottle and isn't hungry for her morning bottle so I'm pretty sure she isn't hungry. what works for us is set feeds(give or take an hour) 7, 11, 3, 6 and dream feed.
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I *think* her total daysleep sounds about right for her age. My DD spread hers more evenly after the 3-2 (2x 1.5 hr naps) but the total sleep is about the same, you're just getting 1 shorter and one much longer, which is fine if it suits her. My DS did this but his day sleep was less- around 2-2.5hrs total (1 X 30-40min nap and 1x 1.5-2hr nap)
Sounds like you are happy with her milk intake. As you know, health advice (in UK at least) is to wait to as close to 6mo as possible to start solids.
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I'm in Australia - I'm following WHO advice of 6 months and of course milk is primary diet with introduction of solids of course for the first year. Here recommendations is 4-6 months to introduce solids. I'm following my baby. He was not ready at 4 months and at coming up 6 in a few weeks is probably almost ready now but Illston hold off a bit closer to 6 months.
My boy is moving into 3-2 - staying awake anywhere between 2.5-3 hours now - admittedly his day sleep is probably closer to 2.5 hours total now and he sleeps like a log all night. The afternoon sleep has split to 40 minutes so he is doing 1 big morning sleep and 2 catnaps instead of 2 big sleeps but we are managing well so far. I probably need to help consolidate that second sleep but it's been a busy term so we are getting by on the 2 catnaps quite well so far.
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I'm back after a an ok month. Dd 1 is now at school full time and despite our hiccups are easy has worked out like this
Wu-6-7am
A 3hrs
S-9 or 10 depending on wake up till 11.30-12 nearly always 1.5-2hrs
E
A
S 3.15-4.15(on a good day)
E
A
S bedtime between 6 and 7 pm
So our problem seems to be she is fighting the second nap. She has been in bed for 30 mins and is still not asleep. I'm going to have to get her up soon or she won't go down tonight. It's a major pain with the school run as she would really like to go down at 2.30-3 but she can't. I have thought about capping the 1st nap but because of her a time and us having to leave for school latest at 2.30pm it wouldn't be long enough. Any advice?
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Hi again!
That looks like a good routine. Have you seen this thread on the EASY board? School Run with a baby in tow - EASY tips and support
Might be worth posting there for tips and suggestions from other school run mums?
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Pretty much our routine. I'm just rolling with it. Babe taking a nnap around 3.30pm and I'm not caring if he catnaps as he usually has 2 hours morning sleep. He's in bed around 7-730pm and sleeps all night.
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Thanks girls. As usual you have made me feel much better 😊
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I am capping the 2nd nap for us. As my son is tending to do 2 hours in the morning - and I am not waking him until 2 hours - then he does not need a long 2nd sleep in the day so if he does the cat nap it means he would have done approximately 3 or under hours sleep. I have let him go to 1.5 hours in the afternoon nap and this has been too much. I will not be surprised if he is on one sleep before age 1, it seems that is the way that it is heading. Hope that helps as our kids seem to be on the same routine now.
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That does help, my hubby and I were discussing that we thought dd2 would drop the 2nd nap before her first year. its nice to know that someone else is going through similar too 😊