BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: JennVanessa1083 on June 10, 2016, 20:31:52 pm
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Hello!
I had an ongoing post on the naps board around the 2-1 but was advised to start a new one here due to DS's age. We are going through the transition which started around 10 months. We finally started having a pretty good routine and I was seeing better nights but now things have gone awry! He is working on cutting his other upper incisor (the first popped through last week) and I know he's trying to take some steps. He's also in the thick of a wonder week. All in all, a lot going on! ::)
I feel like I can't hit the sweet spot oh his routine. I was doing the following:
WU 7:30 am
S 11-11:30 am
S 2:45-4:15 pm
BT 7:45-8 pm
However, he was only doing 10.5 hour nights not including NW (which was down to 1). I am in the process of completely night weaning. He was doing two feeds and now does 1 around 3-4 am then back down until WU. I tried tweaking in the last couple of days to the following:
WU 7:30 am
S 11:15-11:45 am
S 3-4:30 pm
BT 8-8:15 pm
However, he's fought the pm nap until close to 3.5 A and woke up at 50 and 1 hour. The day before he did a 1:20 nap on a 3:22 A. Both nights he went to bed OT on the same last A I have been doing. At least I think it is as the last two nights he has been fighting bedtime with all his might only to wake up soon after (before 3hours after BT) screaming and crying. Last night he woke up at almost 12:45 crying hystericslly where it took an hour to resettle. I do medicate for teeth.
Not sure if I should just plow on and hope things stabilize again or maybe tweak?
Thank you!
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I am totally not the best one for advice on doing the 2-1 in a slow manner - we jumped cold turkey with all three kids lol - but just wondering is he an independent sleeper? Where was the routine at when he was 10 months? (Just for comparison sake to what you are doing now).
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Hi!
Well at 10 months was a mess. Basically two hour and 15 minute naps buy my day was stretching too much so I got support in cutting it down to an hour. We gradually got to this point which thankfully it hasn't been as bad as some moms have had it.
As for IS, yes overall he is but when he's OT or teething, he seems to have a much tougher time.
Tonight is the second night in a row where he fought bedtime and woke up on the middle of the night after restless sleep. He was awake for an hour crying on and off. I finally nursed him earlier than usual bc i got desperate but he didn't drift right away. He eventually went to sleep.
Someon suggested maybe UT...I'm just not sure
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What were A times like at the start of the 2-1? I am sort of thinking ut as well. Have you ever tried for one nap? As late as that first catnap is in the day I would be tempted to let him sleep as long as he will and see what happens - but I totally do things off the cuff ;). We jumped to one nap once A times were around 4/4.5 hours.
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I'm starting to think maybe that's the case in terms of UT. He's sensitive to big jumps in A as I quickly found out around 10 months. Basically I pushed too hard too fast and he was doing the same A times back then (3.5-4 hrs) as I was trying to do long am/short pm. However, I ended up with tons of OT, NW, and EMW. So with much support I switched to short am/long pm and pulled back A times until he was ok to handle more. So I have been gradually increasing but we hit a sweet spot for a couple of weeks with the present routine but now it's a little wonky with fighting naps and bedtime with strange NW. Today I got a slightly shorter ovwrall night sleep bc of the long NW.
In terms of mood, he's always happy and energetic so it's hard to read him. Mood wise he handles OT well but it comes out in broken sleep.
I'm honestly scared to take the plunge with one nap. I'm scared its going to bite me in the behind lol
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Well the only way to know is to try! But in saying that with teething and walking it may just be that things are going to be wonky for a bit and that perhaps holding steady is the best option at this point. The fact that he is fighting bed and naps though and not just having nw/ew makes me wonder though. What is the bed/nap wind down routine?
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Yes I agree with all that's going on I'm trying to stay consistent but then the extra long NW and restless sleep leading to shorter nights are making me wonder if I need to tweak.
Haha I wouldn't even know where to start in terms of one nap a day!
Windown consists of bath or wipe down, lotion, diaper, pjs, nurse, lullaby, white noise, bed.
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When we went to one nap (wake up was similar to yours give or take 15 min) we started with naptime at 11:30 and split lunch before and after as two big snacks.
It ends up being a catch 22 at this point - if he is UT from not enough A time (or perhaps enough A time but not at the right time lol) then nights will suffer, and the cycle continues. I would suggest capping the morning nap further, but would he do a 15/20 min power nap? And not be a bear after lol? Is he resisting this nap or just the pm one?
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Lol well he is a bear anyways between the teething and wonder week! ::)
I'm finding that he is going down at 3.75 with fighting before this point. Then fights the pm nap until about 3.5 but then woke up at 50 minutes then an hour. The other day it was about 3:22A and did an hour and 20 nap smh. Then fights bedtime until 3.75 lol
Then wakes up crying then is horrible to get back down. ???
I'm wondering if this may help?
WU 7:30 am
S 11:15-11:45 am
S 3:15-4:45 pm
BT 8:15-8:30 pm
Or if I shorten the am nap by say 10 minutes then what would the A time be for him to take a long pm nap? I hear shorten A by the amount you shave off of the first nap but the pm nap is so late that it will eventually leave me with a huge A time before one nap right?
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Edit: I was wondering if LOs every switch in preference of long nap. I noticed he likes to sleep longer in the am...but if I let him do that he fights the pm. However, at 3.75 he does do a super long nap but he will not go down before this A time anymore. He used to go down just fine at 3.25-3.5.
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How long of a nap will he do? I would say that is a sign to at least try one nap days (sometimes they need to alternate one and two nap days before going fully to one nap). Their sleep needs are ever changing and tbh we never got any routine that lasted for more than 6-8 weeks until we were on one nap.
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If I let him sleep the am on a 3.75 A it's about 1-1:10 hr. On the pm nap with a short am nap with an A of 3.25- 3.5 about 1:10-1:25 as of the last few days.
I'm not opposed to doing some one nap days if that's what he needs. I'm just so lost on how to do it and how to know when it's a one nap versus two nap day. I'm scared of really messing him up.
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Hmm if he only does just over an hour at that A time that won't be enough to get him through on one nap. How does he settle to sleep with the 3.75 A time in the morning? Without a fuss or is he hard to get down?
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He fights a little but nothing dramatic. With a 3.5 he was going down fine but then was getting less than 10.5 hours of sleep. It was recommended that I try pushing to 3.75 since 3.5 is on the lower average for first A times but he wakes up cranky until I feed him then he's fine. Usually I woke him at 30-35 minutes but if I let him sleep I still don't get a restorative nap.
This kid is confusing!
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What about trying a 4 hr A time? Just to see what happens. A lot of this stage is just playing by ear until they settle on one nap, though tbh I skipped that and went cold turkey and did a set nap and set bedtime (well we always had a set bedtime unintentionally!). But my kids all dealt with ot rather well and I took the short term pain of crankiness over the long term gain of a predictable day!
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Hi! So I actually did try 4 hrs in the am and got a 1.5 nap (however, this was after a 9 hour Ot night since we had a wedding). This is what I did:
WU 7 am
S 11-12:30 pm (closer to 4:05 A; woke up at 37 minutes then I resettled; did just under 1.5 hrs)
S 4:35- 5:07 pm (DH put him down and had lots of fighting before falling asleep)
BT 8:22 pm (A 3.25)
He did an almost 7 hour stretch, then he woke up hourly until his WU time. ???
Not sure what that's about now...he keeps waking more frequently in the early morning or waking up too early where his night is shortened. Ahhhhhh it's driving me crazy not knowing if it's OT, UT, teething, wonder week, all of the above?!
I don't know what to do :-\
I'm almost tempted to just push to one nap but I'm so scared of making things worse than they are. Maybe I should have done a 4.5 first A?
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He's starting to fight both naps now. Not sure if it's built up OT or he's just not tired ugh!
This is our normal EASY which ok following today:
WU 7:30 am
S 11-11:30 am (3.5)
S 2:45-4:15 pm (3.25)
BT 7:45-8 pm (3.5-3.75)
Today he fought his pm nap for 15 minutes. I was a little late putting him down (8 minutes late) bc we were at a park. Would he really get that OT to fight this hard? He only slept for 1.25; then he fought bedtime. I aimed for 3.5; he fought and fell asleep at 3.75 but then woke up a couple of times before midnight ugh!
Should I have put him down earlier? It's so frustrating!
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15 min isn't too bad to settle for a nap really...but if you are getting ew that is a sign of needing a tweak - they tack on A time where they can get it by waking up early!
Honestly I would attempt a one nap day and see how the night goes after it, of course one day and night may not give you the whole picture but may be a reset of sorts as I think you are stuck in an ut/ot loop as he isn't getting enough A in the day to get a good restorative nap and then the nights suffer and he tries to compensate for the A time by waking early and then the cycle continues.
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Ok that makes sense. So what would a good start be bc I tried a 4 hr A but barely got 1.5 which would have gave me a long A before bed. What if he doesn't sleep 2 hrs?
So cutting the am to 20 min wouldn't necessarily help? Should I extend the first A more than 3.5 and still cut the nap to see if that helps?
I really need help on how to do this because he's clearly getting chronically OT and is waking up after 10 hours of sleep crabby which is unlike him. :-\
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You could try capping the morning nap first, it may do the trick short term to get him by. Or alternate one and two nap days - often when you go to one nap it takes them a bit to lengthen the nap so sometimes they need to go back and forth to cope better. When you make the first nap shorter you may be able to move the 2nd nap a bit earlier because he should be tired sooner for it.
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ok I can try that for a couple of days and see if that helps matters.
What would be an example of an EASY where there's a 20 minute morning nap and a 1.5 pm nap?
I'm also wondering if I should opt for pushing out the am nap to encourage a long one then maybe a CN? Maybe the long pm and long A before bed is contributing to the NW and EMW?
What would an easy look like with a long am/short pm nap?
Maybe:
WU 7:30
S 11:30-1 pm (A 4 hrs)
S 4:45-5:15 pm (3.75)
BT 8:15-8:30 pm (3-3.25)
Thank you so much for your help, this transition is getting so tricky just when I thought I cracked it lol
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So I tried the above this far and got this today:
WU 7 am
S 10:45-12:05 (A 3.75; he seemed really tired)
S 4:05- 4:39 (A 4hrs; cried and fought sleep for more than 15 minutes; woke up cranky and then snoozed for 5 minutes while nursing)
We will see what the night holds.
I was trying to see if pushing the am nap out is a better option. I think I'm all around confused at this point lol
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You can push the am nap and still keep it a catnap, and bring the 2nd nap in earlier. Sorry this is not my forte - lol totally why we went cold turkey!!! I think whatever you choose the most important is to stick to it for a good week or so to see if it actually helps before tweaking again. The problem with trying to follow a long nap with a catnap at this stage is they will be ut and it will either take apop or be impossible for them to sleep (happened with DD3, we were getting 2nd nap refusals so we dropped it entirely).
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Lol well I appreciate muddling with me in the trenches though! Of course if there are any BTDT moms it would be great to hear some insight on that end.
Yea it was a disaster! We did a pm CN after 4 hours of A (I tried for 3.75 and he fought hard) then he was OT at BT fighting sleep when I tried at 3 hours and didn't actually fall asleep until 3.5 A after a 40 min CN :-\
Today he went down at 3:40 after some fighting and slept 30 minutes, fell asleep during nursing for another 15 minutes! He was exhausted smh. The pm nap was another hard fight with tons of crying. He did a 3:40 A after a 45 minute nap and woke up after only an hour! Can't be too much A is it or is it UT. He's been touchy all day abd I'm assuming it's from OT building up and it feels like everything I'm doing is making things worse.
We had NW every 1.5-3 hours last night! I'm not looking forward to tonight.
Has anyone been through this? I'm losing my mind dealing with this.
I have yet to have him STTN since this transition started around 10 months ::)
Help!!!
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He's fighting bedtime bigtime! Tonight it was more than 20 minutes complete with crying and eye rubbing. I tried for a 3.25 A after an hour nap. He can't be OT change?
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His naps were 1 hr 45 min today all together? Possibly OT by bedtime I think. Was he sttn prior to 10 months? The A in between the naps may need to be a lot shorter as if you do the math he will have been up for a total of nearly 7.5 hours with only 45 min sleep (which was a broken nap as well). That is part of the idea of the 2-1 - the first nap gets shorter and the A time between them decreases to the point that it just becomes one nap. The catnap is just a way to.hold off the longer nap until later.
Have you ever done an ebt? Would a one nap day and ebt work?
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He never slept through the night consistently I'm afraid. It was my mistake allowing him to snooze rather than getting him up. I think he's so OT that I may have to shorten the first A a little just to get a short nap where he doesn't wake up super groggy. So after a 30 minute nap would a 3 hour A be reasonable?
Yes he only slept a total of 1:45 in naps unfortunately. Lately it's getting harder to get him to at least due 2 hrs in total say sleep. What's a good EASY example for a short am/long pm? I clearly am struggling a lot.
As for 1 nap, he doesn't tack on sleep consistently with a EBT. What A times would I do before and after his nap?
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Update: so last night was better. We still had a NW almost 7 hours after BT and a EMW where I APOPed and he fell asleep for another hour.
Here's what today looked like; maybe some insight since I feel like I'm still floundering lol:
NW 2:56, 5:41 am
Total: 10.5 hrs
WU 6:49 am
S 10:29- 10:59 am (A 3:40; aimed for 3.5 but fought sleep for 20 minutes)
S 2:17-3:14 pm (A 3:18; fought a little but no crying; popped up)
S 3:27- 3:51 pm (after nursing fell asleep so I guess was OT?)
BT 7:34 pm ( A 3:43; looked tired at 3.5 but didn't fall asleep until this time; fought a tiny bit but no crying)
Edit: He was up for an hour wide awake between calm and crying. He woke up not even 5 hours after bedtime. I nursed him out of desperation. Then he wakes up at 6 am!!!! He only had 9 hours of sleep. I tried for over an hour and a half to get him back to sleep! Is this UT? Can't be OT on these A times can it?! This has never happened before. I don't know what to do to make this better.
I'm at the end of my rope. Please if anyone who has any insight or any BTDT moms can please please help me. I'm desperate at this point. I almost want to just go cold turkey bc this is insane.
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Sorry! I forgot to ask...how do I switch from a short am/ long pm nap routine to a long am/short pm routine?
I think I'm ready to admit defeat on our old EASY. It's just not working anymore and things are getting worse.
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Sorry had work yesterday so have not had a chance to reply to any posts!
If you want to switch to long am/short pm it may be tricky - if he needs a long A time to get a good first nap then you run the risk of him not taking a catnap (of course that is where ebt comes in). Going cold turkey is not necessarily a bad thing, it may help to reset things. But you have to stick with it for a good while (a couple of weeks) to see if it works and if the nap will lenghten. Or perhaps go back and forth between one and two nap days.
Just curious, for nw/ew or mid nap wakes do you often nurse him back to sleep? Part of the issue may be prop related as well and any changes to routine may not result in great naps or sttn if he cannot resettle himself.
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It's ok...i was using this board as a sounding board of sleep deprived mania lol just feels like everyday is a shot in the dark.
As for the routine, that's the one thing I am afraid of in doing the long am vs a short am nap is the possibility of him rejecting a CN completely. However, I'm finding it very difficult to gage a good A time after a 30 minute am CN. Then just when I think (yesterday), I got it somewhat right, he gives me a long NW and a short night (7:30-6am). So I wondering if the long pm nap is influencing the EMW or long waking bc maybe I don't have enough A to BT or maybe it's still a case of UT/OT loop.
Today he slept 2 hours on a 4.5 A time. It was stretched accidentally bc I took a morning nap while DH watched DS and I woke up late. He actually was totally fine when I saw him, playing and joyful. He fought sleep a little with a couple of years but fell asleep rather quickly. I'm going to attempt a 20 minute CN at 3.75-4 hrs A time to hopefully get to a 7:30 bedtime.
Today was:
WU 6 am (it's getting earlier and earlier)
S 10:30-12:30 pm
So I'm attempting a CN 4:15-4:30 for 15-20 minutes and hopefully have a BT of 7:30 pm. So I guess an A time 2.5-3?
I have heard of people switching off days and would like to go that route since DS doesn't settle with OT very well. Mood wise he's great but it always comes out in his sleep.
I do not nurse to sleep often. Usually he can self-settle unless it gets desperate.
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Good luck with the catnap! If it all goes bust try an ebt to make up the difference. Is he lower sleep needs? For us the nights never lengthened until DD3 was on one (capped) nap and we only briefly got 11/11.5 hr nights. We are back to 10.5 now with no nap besides the odd catnap.
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I think DS sounds like DD3 bc he seems to be fine on 12.5-13 hours of total sleep. It's when it gets lower I start to see some issues.
He's never been a "sleeper." He's very active and curious so I think if it were up to him he wouldn't ever go to sleep. Tired cues are so unreliable which is why I rely more on a clock.
He averaged at 10.5 hours of total night sleep and wakes up happy so I don't worry about that so much. I guess asking a person who has an LO with lower sleep needs, I'm not sure how to have an EASY where wake ups are consistent on a 10.5 night. (Sometimes he has 11 hour nights)
I'm wondering after a 2 hr nap what would be a good A? I was thinking 3.75-4hrs A so hoping it works. What would be a good bedtime after a short 20 minute CN? what about if he won't take the CN, when is BT?
Also in general, do I cap a long am nap to squeeze a short CN in the pm? No right, I think the general idea is letting him sleep as long as possible.
I'm not sure if I want to continue with the long am/short pm. But out of curiosity, if I were to stick to my current routine of short am/long pm would it be reasonable to stretch the first A to 4 hours then do 30 minutes followed by a 3.25 A before a long pm nap? Or is hat asking for a disaster lol
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The issue you run into with this transition is there ends up not being enough hours in the day to get in two naps, enough A time and still get a long night! Even swapping the naps around you may have to cap the longer one if you want to preserve the catnap and bedtime. Tbh I have never done ebt so have no idea how early you could get away with! Our bedtime has always been a set bedtime and we never managed to change it evem if naps were crappy lol.
Tired cues were not reliable for us either at this stage...and yes our lo's sound very similar!
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Lol I'm realizing more and more that the 2-1 is not a one solutions fits all type of thing.
I have only done EBT a few times and he seems to tack on a little bit of sleep but never a 13 hour night for example. The most I have ever gotten is 12 hour nights.
Yesterday naps weren't the best but despite all that and a late bedtime, he only had one full wake up but was tossing and turning a lot around 5 am. Eventually he went back to sleep. We had an 11 hour night two nights in a row with longer A times so at least I know that he was UT which was causing all the issues. I am finding that he is easily handling more than 4 hour A times in the am and prefers sleeping more in the am than a longer nap in the pm.
How do you do a fixed bedtime? I feel like ours is always fluctuating between 7-8ish.
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12 hours is tacking on for a lsn kid ;)
Lol I'm realizing more and more that the 2-1 is not a one solutions fits all type of thing.
And this is spot on! With what you have said re longer than 4 hr A I would totally try a few one nap days!
As for fixed bedtime...well my DD2 has ASD and we have run by clock time since she was a baby - we cannot seem to break out of the habit of doing things at the same time every. single. day. Lol supper is 5:30 on the dot! So even though DD3 went with the flow and napped around everyone else's schedule she just never was ready for sleep until 8pm (her older siblings bedtime)! Now more like 8:30 for summer as it is so light out and her sleep needs have dropped a bit.
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Haha I guess so! Well at least I know he is capable of tacking on when he's very very tired lol
The last few nights have been good. He has been doing 11 hour nights with one NW which is great. I know I have to wean the last NF which is the one NW he does but it's certainly a great improvement. The longer A times are definitely helping. We are visiting family so naps haven't been as consistent but he's still doing great nights so this is giving me so much hope that once we get home things will continue to get better until something else rocks the boat lol
I am also finding that the longer am nap is suiting us great. Today he did a 2 hour nap in the car which is unheard of! So aimed for a tiny CN to tie him over to bed considering his grandparents want to spend time with him rather than him going to bed at 6 pm!
Interesting about the set bedtimes. I feel like with him he does better with a 7-8 pm bedtime. Anything after that messes with his night sleep. I do notice that he's been waking up at 7 am consistently which never happened unless I woke him so I guess his little body clock is finally setting!
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Yes it sure sounds like it! My older two had 7/7:30 bedtimes when they were smaller, it is a fairly "normal" bedtime for most lo's. So glad it is all going so well...fx it continues at home too!
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Thank you! It's all trial and error. Yesterday he had a total of 2.5 hours of day sleep yesterday but overall only had 11.5 in overall sleep bc of extra long A times during the day. He had a slightly long NW and only slept almost 10 hours not including The NW. Does that sound like too much day sleep? Maybe I should limit it to 2.25 hours of day sleep so he can have more night sleep?
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Some kids do okay with shorter nights and longer naps...mine always liked the reverse - longer nights and capped naps. It is all trial and error at this point! You could try a bit less day sleep and see.
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Hmmmm yes lots of trial and error!
I'm getting 2 NW again. One around 2-3 then 5-6. He's tossing and turning a lot and when he wakes even with a feed he doesn't go to sleep right away. His wake up is all over the place again. We just got back from visiting family. I have been trying this:
WU 7:30
S 11:45-1:15 pm (A 4:15; yesterday he did only an hour in the car on our way home)
S 5:15-5:45 pm (A 4)
BT 8:45 pm
Maybe a push to 4:30A in the am? Maybe the later bedtime is messing him up? Does it sound UT lol I feel like I never know!
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If he's already at 4.15 I wonder would you be better pushing it out a bit and just get to 1 nap? I'd be inclined to just jump to 1 nap but that's what we did here with both mine. We needed an odd day with a CN but we were much better on one nap.
What do you think?
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Hi!
I was thinking of pushing to closer to 4.5 today and see what happens. It hasn't been 4.25 exactly. More like between 4:10 (yesterday) or 4:20. I get different nap lengths on those times.
Yesterday was 55 minutes with a 4:10 A but it was in the car so that could be a factor. The other day he woke up at the 40 mark after a 4:20 A but then drifted in the car for another hour or so. We were traveling a lot in the last few days.
Do you think I should give 4.25 more of a chance or just go ahead and jump?
Part of me just wants to jump but not sure if I'm moving too fast lol
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I would just jump and allow him a couple of weeks to adjust! May take a bit to get a consistent long nap but as Shiv said you can always toss in the odd catnap if it is really needed.
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Sounds like a plan!
If he does a two hour nap I'll aim for a EBT. If he does less, I may do a 20 min CN bc I don't think he will make a decent BT. Is that what people do correct?
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Depends! Mine never did a catnap once we ditched it so we just dealt with ot and pushed on! Though only DD3 ever did less than 2 hour naps without my capping I guess!
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I set nap time and bedtime and just went with it. If we had a disasterous nap I may have APed a CN in the car later but generally pushed through. Dd1 did 5 hours A 3 hour nap and 5 hours A. DD2 did same A but a 2/2.5 nap so their bedtimes matched.
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Wow thanks ladies! So pushing through seems to be the general approach haha!
Ok he did a 1.75 am nap which is great but then I did around a 20 minute CN and it ended up making the day was too long at 14 hours so I may have to push more for the one nap. He's at 4.5 taking a long nap but I'm wondering if I can just gradually push for a longer A so that the A to bed isn't ridiculously long?
I'm honestly nervous about EBT since he's not the baby to have 13 hour nights. If he takes an over 2 hour nap on a 4.5A then what A would be good before BT? 4.5? More? What if he wakes up crabby does it mean he should have slept longer?
Sorry! So many questions!
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I'm so sorry for replying again.
Just a quick question: 2.25-2.5 hrs in naps and less than 10 hours of night sleep is UT? I had this in the last two days where he has shorter nights but 2 NW where he's crying and agitated. He has had long days bc of me trying to fit a CN. In the morning he wakes up touchy probably from a short night. He's also waking up sooner and sooner after BT. I'm Trying to hold on to 2 naps but maybe I just need to give it up.
This is what has been happening:
WI 7:30 am
S 12-2ish
S 5:45ish for 20minutes
BT 8:30-9 pm
Perhaps too much A before BT or maybe too late of CN or too much day sleep ???
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I think trying to hold on to two naps is just going to lead to short nights and then built up ot from never getting a good restorative night or nap. Becomes an UT/OT loop at this point from not enough A time (or just A time arranged in a way that doesn't suit lo - ie he may need two bigger chunks not 3 smaller A times).
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Yea it's looking like it. But what if he doesn't sleep 2 hrs? Then do a CN? How do I know if he needs a two nap day?
In terms of 1 nap days, do I do the same A time to bed? Such as 4.5?
How does a feeding routine work with less A to give 3 meals and snacks and BF?
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I just did set bed time regardless of nap length give or take 15 mins. Set nap too. If you stick to set A time then bedtime can get earlier and earlier. The nap will lengthen and become consistent once his body realises it's one nap and night sleep.
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Ok that makes sense. I was thinking something like:
WU 7:30 am
S 12-2 pm
BT 7 pm
DShas never done 5 hours A so is that too much of a jump right before bed?
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What's the most A time he has done?
Do you think he'll do a 12.5 night ok?
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The most he's done is 4.75 in the am and was fine.
Honestly, he's only done 12.5 hrs nights a handful of times. He averages about 11 hr nights; 12 at most. Not sure if he would do more than a 12 hour night.
Should I push out the am nap?
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I'd aim for 5 hours pre nap. If you think he needs it do a couple of days 4.75 but then I'd jump to 5 x
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Ok I can definitely work towards that. In the meantime...what would a good starting point on AnA before bed. I know you mentioned set BT but not sure where to start.
Eventually I would like a BT or 7:30-8 pm.
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Well I got a slightly UT nap on a4.5 A. He woke up at 48 minutes then I managed to get him back to sleep and He woke 45 minutes later. Could be bc he slept 11 hours not including NW. He's teething his canines :o so he had 2 NW where we had to give him a second dose of medicine.
I'll try 4.75A tomorrow. As for the rest of the day, I'm going to throw in a 15-20 min CN and cross my fingers lol
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Aftet a decent night you need a good long A time in the morning to make a decent nap possible so that he can push through until bed. I fear the catnap will just keep putting you back to the start un terms of him getting used to longer A times and giving him time to lengthen that one nap.
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That's true. Maybe I should have pushed to 4.75-5 hrs this am?
I'm thinking I may just set the nap and BT.
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Set naps and bedtime are quite a bit easier to do at this point!
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Very true...he never did well on set naps before.
So wondering for an almost 13 month old, do I aim to keep a 12 hour day?
So for set nap and BT, maybe:
WU 8 am
S 1-3 pm
BT 8 pm
I'm going to gradually increase to 5 hours prenap or is that counterproductive?
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At this stage it probably is counterproductive I think.
We always tried to keep a 12 hr day with DD1 & DD2 (sometimes shorter of the nap was especially bad!!) but with DD3 it had to be a long day as her max at night was 11/11.5 hrs. Some kids can handle it and some need ebt.
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That's the problem with our situation. He usually does 11 hour nights so not sure if a 12 hour day will work.
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He may surprise you! Or you may have to do some low key A times to push the morning out a bit once you have a better idea of how long he will nap for.
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Very true! So he woke up at 7:30 today so I'm going to take the plunge for a one nap on a 5 hour A time :o this can either go really well or horribly wrong lol
Do I do another 5A after the nap? Or is that too much? I'm a little nervous about pushing too hard too fast. I have heard of horror stories of pushing to one nap too fast and ending up with a really OT baby. How do I know if I should do a 2 nap day instead of a one nap day if I need to switch back and forth?
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Yes I found setting them give or take 10/15 mins was the way to go.
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Well he cried and fought sleep from OT. He looked exhausted when having a prenap snack then was crying and fighting with his eyes closed so I know that's classic OT. He went down at 5 hrs and woke up fussing and crying at 1hr. Took 15 minutes of APOP to resettle and he's twitchy :-\ I'm hoping for a nice long nap to do 4.5-4.75 hours A to bed.
But him crying and fighting this hard is common when switching to 1 nap? Maybe I should have done a longer wind down. Maybe the jump was too much For him?
Are OT wakings at naps and BT expected when first adjusting to one nap?
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Update: I did a 5 hour A after a broken 1.75 nap and it was disastrous lol
He woke up 3 times including less than an hour after BT and one long NW in the middle of the night. I also got a EMW but that was due to a diaper leak ::)
He wouldn't go back to sleep after that so he totaled at less than10.5 hours of sleep smh.
Not sure what to do. I'm planning on doing a long am at around 4.5 A then a CN. I don't want him to wake even earlier tomorrow from OT.
Should I expect horrible nights for now? Or is this an indicator that he's quite not ready for one nap.
I did this yesterday:
WU 7:30 am
S 12:30- 2:30 (woke up mid nap for 15 minutes)
BT 7:30 pm
NW 8:15, 12:30-1, 4:15 am; up at 6:30. I know that's an 11 hour night but he woke up crabby and looking tired so I know he could have slept longer.
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It is impossible to know as you'd need to do at least 4/5 days of consistent 1 Nap to see if you're heading in the right direction. It can take a while for the body clock to realise that CN is gone.
I wonder about the NWs. As you know everyone wakes through the night as normal behaviour. How is the self settling going? Is he at the stage where you just stick him down awake and he gets himself to sleep?
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Hi Shiv!
Yes he does settle himself to sleep including NW. He does have one NF that I will weak after he cuts his canines. Last night we gave him Motrin at the 8:15 NW since he woke up screaming. I figure it may be teething pain. Then at 12:30 he woke up and eventually drifted on his own after being wide awake but quiet just a lot of changing sleep positions which is how I knew he was awake for as long as he was. He had restless sleep then the diaper leak didn't help.
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following you again jennvanessa, our LO's seem to be so similar :)
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Lol Franziska. Why can't it be easier eh?
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Super on the self settling. The NWs are annoying but so long as he's settling himself and not needing you hopefully they'll settle soon.
How'd today go?
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Last night He was definitely OT; my fault as I put him down too late heels twitchy all night but had one long NW where he was tossing and turning for an hour :-\
Eventually he did go to sleep. He only had 10 hours of night sleep and woke up crabby. All morning he was rubbing his eyes and yawning. I put him down at 4:5A and he slept for 1:20 hr. So we did a CN in the stroller 4 hours later like at 4:45 pm. We will see how tonight goes!
I'm wondering if gently stretching A time will work for him?
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Is a 13.5 hour day and 10.5hour night ok? Is that too long of a day?
Also is a 1:05 nap OT? I tried close to 4.75A and he woke up fussy but refused to go back to sleep Bo matter what I did. I did ALOT including nursing and rocking. He tried going back to sleep but couldn't. Once I stopped trying he was totally fine ::) Or does this mean he just wasn't tired enough.
I'm going nuts over this transition!!
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I really don't know what's going on. He only slept 9.5 hrs last night ::) he wakes up happy but rubs his eyes all day and looks tired. I can't seem to get a long enough am nap to only go on one nap.
His was yesterday:
WU7:30am
S 12:15-1:20 pm (A4.75; would not settle no matter what I did)
S 5:20-5:55 pm (A 4; I let him sleep longer bc of the bad am nap maybe I shouldnt have)
BT 8:50 pm (2:55; too short?)
NW 11:25 pm, 3:46, 5:43 am (wide awake but eventually drifted), up at 7 :-\
Is this OT building up or am is he still in a UT/OT loop? Disconfort? I can't get a long enough am nap to push through to BT.
For what it's worth, he's also learning how to walk. He can take a few unassisted steps.
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New skills can sometimes cause the nw's and also they sometimes need a bit less A time while they first are using their new skills because they can tire themselves out faster.
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I don't think you will get the nap lengthened while you are offering that C but given at this age you can't look day to day and this is day 2 in a row of 2 naps id keep going. Even if the first nap is shorter than you'd like you really can't let him sleep longer at the CN like you did as it means he really will need more A time to bed and so on.
I'd do another 3 days as you are and then see how the week panned out and decide from there. I think Heidi said earlier it does get to the stage where there is just not enough time in the day to fit needed A time and naps and you need to get to one nap. Didn't we say to get the A time upto 4.75 before making the jump so the jump to 5 hours isn't so bad?
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Yea we did. So today is day 2 I think of 4.75 A. Today he didn't show any signs of slowing down and even fought me when I tried winding down. He's asleep now after around 4.75 so let's see what happens.
I agree that I just need to push though to get to the point of 5 hrs or more A time. Heidi is totally right since I'm finding that out days are stretching to 14 hrs which I think is causing more harm to an already shaky situation. I just know he likes a shorter A to bed so doing one nap on 5hrs A then 5 hours A afterwards won't end well. I'm wondering if people ever try a shorter A to bed after a nap on 5 hrs time.
Something like:
WU 7:30 am
S 12:30-2:30 (hopefully)
BT 7 pm
I'm pretty sure I could stretch him to 4.5 without crazy OT.
Heidi- I'm finding that new skills equals no slowing down lol he just runs a muck. I think sleep is the last thing he wants to do.
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Sooooo we tried 4.75 yesterday and got s 1:20 nap then he skipped his CN totally :o
So that means he did 6.5 hrs A to bed!!!! Not by choice but after trying in a stroller and car I threw in the towel gave him dinner, bath, then straight into the BT routine.
Needless to say we had 2 NW which includes a nearly 2 hour long one where nothing was settling him and he was hyper then had s meltdown. Finally I nurses him out of desperation then he slept for another 2 hours then up at 7:30 am.
Naps today was an utter mess. First nap he dozed off in the car around 4.5 hrs for 45 min then a 30 min CN after 4 hrs A (he fought sleep then got OT or was already OT). Bedtime was another battle :-\
He will only total 10 hrs total sleep in a 24 hour period! Needless to say I'm expecting a not so good night.
What do I do? Do I shorten A times to level out the OT or do I just press on with the goal of 5 hours A after a couple of more days of 4.75?
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I would press on...if you keep going back to the two naps it will keep going in circles. Would he have done an ebt? Instead of such a long A to bed? I won't be on much (if at all) for a couple of weeks as we are off camping!
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Ok I shall press on. I should have done an EBT. I'm thinking if I can get him to at least do a 2 hour nap then I could try a 4-4.5 A to bed? Would that constitute as a EBT?
I know a 5 hour A before BT led to NW including a long one and a EMW.
Happy Camping Heidi!!!
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An EBT would be anything from an hour before normal bedtime and should be used sparingly. Sometimes doing a really early bedtime gets you a super long night where they catch up.
I think you have to bear in mind that you can't judge off one night. So just because one 5 A time gave a bad night doesn't meant it always will. That's where the consistency will come into it and his body clock may or may not get used to it but only 5 days of the same thing will tell. Plus the other night with two nap day you had 4 NWs and him up from 5.43 so I think you are stuck in a loop.
Are you sticking with the two naps for now?
Could you post the last 4\5 days in a row for me to take a look?
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Hi! You're right about not judging off one night. I guess I'm so scared of making things worse but it looks like being overly cautious is doing more harm than good.
I have been trying to do 2 naps but he skipped the CN on two days including yesterday where even a car ride didn't do the trick! He usually can't resist the movement. Anyways this is the last couple of days:
Friday:
NW 1:05, 5 am
Total 10.5 hrs
WU 7:36 am
S 12:15-1:21 pm (A 4:39; fought a little bit maybe for 5 minutes; woke up fussy and crying; sweaty)
S 5:21-5:57 pm (A 4; fought sleep and unconfortable; was hot)
BT 8:52 pm (A 2:55)
Saturday:
NW 11:25, 3:45, 5:43 am
Total 9.5 hrs
WU 7 am
S 11:48-1:16 pm (A 4:48; didn't seem tired until almost 4:40; 8 minutes to fall asleep; stirred at 40)
--Attempted CN around 4 hrs later and totally rejected it; tried the stroller then the car
BT 7:29 pm (A 6:13; wired; came home close to 7pm; gave dinner then did BT routine)
Sunday:
NW 12:29 am (restless the whole time), 3:24-4:46 am (Wide awake tossing and turning trying to stand, restless legs cried a lot towards the end; nursed bc nothing else worked)
Total 10.5 hrs
WU 7:29 am
S 12:01-12:47 pm (A 4:32;car on our way home)
S 4:52-5:21 pm (A 4:05; OT fighting sleep. Parents were here visiting)
BT 8:36 pm (A 3:15; fighting sleep; took around 20 minutes to put down)
Yesterday:
NW 1:47 am, 4:30-5:15 (tossing and turning)
Woke up 7:15 and nurses then dozed off
Total 10 hrs
WU 8:10 am (let him sleep in)
S 12:46-2:01 pm (A 4:36; DH put him to sleep while my sister was visiting)
Skipped CN when tried in the car. Drove for a half hour then abandoned nap. Came home gave him dinner then straight to BT routine.
BT 7:14 pm (A 5:13; fell asleep while nursing then woke up 30 minutes later finished nursing then eventually drifted)
NW 7:45, 11:35 pm, 6:15 am
Up at 7:50 am and slept a total of 11.75 not including NW. Wayyyyyy better!
Ideally I would LOVE for our day on one nap to be from 8-8 bc it would work better for our family. Usually he wakes between 7:30-8 am. It's just been hard to be consistent with the crazy naps and nights. I'm convinced that he is either ready for 1 nap or is super close. Thoughts?
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I have done two days of one nap and am getting 4-5 NW including one within the hour after BT. Is that common when adjusting? Maybe too long of A before bed? I tried 5.25 the first time, 4:50 the next time. Maybe less like 4.5? Or do I just endure and hope things settle down?
How do I know if I need a two nap day to help OT? Would I do a morning CN and then do a long lunchtime nap or a pm CN?
The great part is that it's resulting in 11.5 hrs of sleep. Also wondering if maybe I'm not getting enough calories in him since I don't have as much A time with one nap.
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When you say NWs is be fully awake or just stirring and resettling? How King is he awake for each time. I think that will settle as he becomes more rested.
I wouldnt do more than 5 but whatever you decide Id stick to it and not alter it.
I'd do a two nap day if you're finding the day is starting earlier and you need to stretch the day to keep bedtime reasonable.
How long were the naps? Might be easier to post your days x
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I would say 3-4 full NW and some stirrings.
My days are posted above. Yesterday went like this:
Teething 2-1
NW 7:44,11:30, 6:15 am
WU 7:50 am
S 12:51-2:30 (A 5; drifted easily; stirred at 1 hour)
BT 7:19 pm (A 4:49)
NW7:55-8:20 (tossing and turning with lots of moans), 12:15 am, 2:48, 5:45 am
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Ok so we need to pick an A time. You got similar Naps off 4.45 and 5 hours A time. I'd hope that nap will lengthen out too. I'd imagine 5 is better as it helps stretches the day out. Do you think that Would be ok?
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You mean before the am nap?
I agree 5 hours seems to give a good nap. Today he didn't make it. He was crying by 3.5 so I put him down for a CN then did a long pm. His teeth seem to really bother him today. He's chewing his rubber toothbrush nonstop lol no other tether seems to be doing the trick. I'm hoping this means they are about to cut! I'm not sure if it's Canines or molars bc he won't let me look inside but definitely swollen gums and teeth moving down around those areas.
Maybe that's why he was extra tired? Also maybe the multiple NW last night. That's why I was wondering about switching back between 2 and 1 nap days.
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So it seems I got a UT night and I am wondering how to maneuver a 2 nap day? Would I do a long am then just APOP a CNin the pm?
Yesterday:
WU 7:30
S 11:30-12( A 4 hrs; gave him a nap bc really fussy and crying; woke himself)
S 3:17-4:42 pm (A 3:16; stirred at 45)
BT 8:35 pm (A 3:53)
NW 11, 3-3:30 am (tossing and turning; eventually drifted), 6:35 am (dozed off from 6:45-7 am), up at 7 wide awake trying to walk lol
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Yes I think you need to be as consistent as possible. Do 4.75/5 a time then AP a CN and then slightly later bedtime x
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Ok yes I figured I should have pushed for a longer am. So even if he's clearly tired and fussy I should still try to have him make it for a 4.75A at least. Of course he's tired again today from a weird night but I'm pushing to 4.75 and hoping for a nice long nap. If not ill do a 20-30 minute CN. What's a goodA after a CN like this. I always seem to run into issues with this ::)
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Honestly I'm not sure. Mine could manage really long A times after that CN and bedtime ended up ridiculously late. That's why I had to push to one nap. When we first moved to one nap I needed to avoid going out after 4pm to avoid a car nap or bedtime was about 10pm. Ugh.
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lol yea my DS does a 13.5-14 hour day with two naps. I aim for 13 hours but he somehow stretches it out more smh.
Well I guess I really have to push one nap. DH watched DS in the afternoon after he took an hour nap after an A of 4:40. I told DH to put him down 4 hrs later for a CN. Maybe I should told him sooner bc he fought the CN finally doing 30 min after a 4.5 A ::)
He was one crabby baby. I put him to bed after 3 hours so we will see what tonight holds. Not expecting good sleep.
Did you find that your LOs just didn't take a CN no matter how short the am nap was? Maybe he was OT?
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DS keeps waking up around 6?am no matter if it's a one or two nap day. He will be awake for 30 min-hour while I APOP to sleep. He wakes up fussy and rolling around. I don't know what to do.
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What time is wake up? 8am? I tended to just feed back to sleep at that age which I know isn't ideal.
Are you still varying days between 1/2 nap days then? Can you post the last few days and we can see if anything stands out?
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Yea I'm still varying 1-2 nap days depending on wake up unfortunately. Ideally I would love an 8-8 day. Yesterday was a one nap day and he had about 2-3 NW and up at 6. I tried to feed and it seemed he wanted to go back to sleep but couldn't. I ApOPed and he dozed for a little then was up again at 6:30 rolling around, fussy, and crying on and off. Maybe it's his teeth? He was holding his mouth a lot. This is the last few days. We were out and about with family so unfortunately it wasn't consistent.
Friday:
NW 10, 2:44, 6:34-7:08
Total 9.5
WU 7:20 am
S 11:44-1 pm (A 4:24; Crabby; Aaron put down)
S 5:41-6:12 pm (A 4:41; refused this nap in the car for more than a half hour but crying and babbling; rocked and nursed him)
BT 9:17 pm (A 3:05)
Saturday:
NW 3-3:30, 6 am
Total: 10 hrs
WU 8 am
S 1-1:30 pm (would not resettle)
S 4:37-5:49 pm
BT 8:47 pm
Sunday:
NW 12:46,stirred at 3
Total 10 hrs
WU 7 am
S 11:16-12:23 pm(car ride to the beach)
S5:37-646 pm (car ride home)
Yesterday:
NW 3:43, 7am
Total 10.25 hrs
WU 8:21 am
S 1:09- 2:50 (A 4:48; very tired didn't want book; briefly stirred at the 1 hour mark)
BT 7:49 pm
NW 12, 3, 6; dozed on and off between 6-7 am
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I think TBH you are not going to get much consistency until you can provide some consistency YK? That first A time varied from 4.15 to 5 hours across the last few days. I totally appreciate life has to happen though. With my DD3 her sleep is all over the place as I am just not able to provide any sort of consistency at all and the poor mite is all over the place. I keep missing her sleep window and she's inconsolable and then short naps. But it's school holidays and my big girls are off so we're out and about so not much I can do.
I think you should try get to 4.75 consistently for 3 days then move to 5 hours and do one nap for a week. Set wake up and do not let him sleep in beyond 8. It will take longer than a week for the nap to lengthen but I think he needs the chance to get himself sorted into one nap.
Hugs. It's such a frustrating time. Cold turkey worked best here as I'm too lazy with all the messing about.
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Ahhhhhh You're right! I need consistency. I appreciate the advice. I'm so tempted to go cold turkey but then nights and wake ups are so inconsistent that not sure what that would look like. I'm tired of messing with A times. I guess we can all just do the best we can :)
I think I'll do what you suggested: 4.75 for a few days then jump to 5 hours for one nap. If I do 4.75 first do I do a CN with it? Also when I jump to 5A do I do 5 A after the one nap?
So hard when it's summer and my husband is on holiday as well. But I can try to work around his nap to get some more consistency.
I'll have to wait as my poor baby is very sick. He may have Roseola Virus so with the high fever and teething he's an all around mess. :'(
I hope your DS 3 gets sorted soon!
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Totally following. My DD is exactly one today and she's never done longer than an 11h night - mostly 10.5 no matter how early I put down, and how consistent and conservative (or stretched out) wake times are. She wakes very happy so I'm accepting she's on the lower end since she only clocks 2.25 max in naps and 10.5 overnight on good days - not cranky though.
My thoughts with holding off or not holding off the 2-1 is completely dependent on how much wake time LO can handle! Am sending you all my empathy - right now our days are
WU 645-715 <3.5-3.75 wake time>
N1- 1035-1140 (maybe an hour or slightly more)
N2 - 340 -440 (maybe slightly less)
Bedtime - 3h50-4h later so 835pm
Not too sure how long I can hold off too since she fights some 2nd naps! No turning back once you've transited though I heard.
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Awh poor wee man. I remember my DD1 having it and it was awful. Passed in a few days though.
Let's get him better and then see how you want to proceed?
Sleep is important but family time is important too xxx
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Agreed! I definitely don't want to be confined to the house to ensure a perfect EASY as I doubt one even exists lol
Ok I can check back when he's totally better. His fever passed yay!!!! But he is still not 100%. It's heartbreaking seeing them feel ill.
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I'm so glad he's feeling a bit better.
Agreed! I definitely don't want to be confined to the house to ensure a perfect EASY as I doubt one even exists lol
Never truer words have been spoken!!!
I do think if you try to get to at least 4.75 first A time the rest might start to fall into place and the jump to 1 nap will seem obvious at that point xx
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Haha I'm learning to be more chill with that fact!
Anyways, if I do a 4.75 A, I would do s CN correct?
Then jumping to 5 would mean one nap then doing a 5 A to bed or do I ease into that much A?
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With 4.75...yeah I imagine you'll need a CN unless he pulls off a really long nap.
With 5..I would likely do a day of 5A one nap 5A followed by a shorter A to bed the next day (so earlier bedtime) and then back to 5/5. You may find wake up starts to slip back and then I tended to do a 2 nap day every so often to get bedtime and wake up back to normal.
Does that make sense?
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Yes that makes perfect sense!
For days with an earlier bedtime, what would be a good A to aim for? 4.5?
So for example:
WU 8
S 1-3 (hopefully)
BT 7:30
What about if it's only a 1.5 hr nap; do I still do 5A to bed and so forth?
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Yes 4.5 seems fine. Part of this is really getting him used to coping with the longer A times and so his sleep will get consolidated so there is a certain amount of OT that will go along with that. I would only reduce the 5 hour A time days by maybe 15 mins if you get a shorter nap.
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Ok that makes sense
Yesterday we had a one nap day (not on purpose); he gave me a short night.
We did this:
WU 8 am
S 1:30-2:45 pm (A 5.5; fought sleep while out; tried the stroller for an hour; and finally dropped off in the car; would not resettle)
S 7 pm (A 4:15; aimed for 4.5 but he fell asleep quicker than expected)
NW 11 pm, 3 am
Up at 6:30 :o; he woke up fussy and crying on and off; so it's going to be a 2 nap day since he woke up earlier. I'm wondering if it was OT or UT since he went to sleep earlier?
What sort of two nap routine did you do? I feel as though DS is similar in A times that yours had at this age.
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A short night? Although he woke at 6.30 it was an 11.5 hour night after an 11 hour day so I wouldn't have expected more than that ? I don't think it was OT or UT just enough YK?
So on a days that starts earlier I'd do 5 hours to BT then nap for 1.5 then CN then bed
So
Wake up 6.30
Nap 11.30-1
CN 5pm for 15/20 mins
Bed 8.30
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Haha true.
I can try the suggested two nap routine when he wakes earlier such as today. Last night he woke up crying for an hour :( then woke up 3 more times and up before 7. Technically it was a little over a 12 hour night but I know I should have put him to bed earlier as it seems he was OT. We did:
WU 7:30 am
S 12:30- 2 pm
BT 7 pm
I probably should have done 6:30 since he had a 1.5 nap. Anyways, how do I get him to a 8 am wake up? I feel like we are going in circles between a 6:30-7:30 wake up while switching between 1 and 2 nap days.
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No I think that day looked good. I wouldn't let bedtime get too early given he doesn't really tack on to his night.
How is he with the 5 hours before nap? Hopefully the nap will lengthen out a bit.
Likely a two nap day tomorrow?
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Depends on the day. Sometimes he can handle a 5 hour A then sometimes not. Same thing with a 5 hour A to bed. He also is just recovering from Roseola so maybe that's why he had a rough night off one nap. He's also teething so I guess it's an array of things.
Today I'm doing a two nap day because I want bedtime to be later again. I'm hoping he will make it to at least 5 A before his nap but he's been fussy all morning crying off and on. I'm not sure he will make it ::) should I just push him despite his mood?
I just want this 2-1 madness to end Lol
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Anyways, how do I get him to a 8 am wake up? I feel like we are going in circles between a 6:30-7:30 wake up while switching between 1 and 2 nap days.
I don't know that you will be able to even try to tweak that until he is fully on one nap really. And even then it could just be his body clock. I would focus more on getting good nights and naps and leave the wake time for later - it may be shiftable or it may not. I worked to reinforce that DD3 played quietly in her crib until I got up (I stuck a few books in her crib before I went to bed and when she woke but it wasn't quite time to get up I reached in a flicked on the light and she found her books and toys and played.
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I agree. Until you're on one night I think wake up is going to be variable. And yes I would push to 5 hour A time unless he is ridiculously tired. Only way he'll get used to it. Once we were into it I did set nap and bedtime but that could be a push at this stage x
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Hey I was reading on your other thread about the feeding to sleep since being ill. That will likely also be contributing to him waking earlier and not resettling. Such a pain when the weaning was going so well.
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Hi ladies!
Thanks once again for the insight. I may have to accept that I may not have the coveted 8-8 day lol
Anyways, turns out he's also teething molars :P. Pediatrician said that looks like it's close to cutting. Makes sense why he has been wanting to nurse constantly and refusing a lot of food. Usually he eats everything. Anyways, I'm trying to gently discourage feeding to sleep which hasn't been easy considering it feels good to him but I don't want to let all the work of weaning go down the drain.
I was wondering about doing GW again but should I wait until after the molars come in?
Today was a one nap day disaster. He woke up at 7:45 so I decided I'll push for one nap:
WU 7:46 am
S 12:46-1:56 pm (A 5; would not resettle)
Tried for CN 4 hrs later and refused for 30 minutes; moved on to dinner and BT routine
BT 7:52 pm; really OT; fought sleep for awhile now he's very jolty. Not looking forward to tonight.
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With teething going on I would not spend time working on gw just yet. Just do what you can to get through his bit and then refocus after.
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Yea that makes sense...DH and I agreed to do GW when he cuts his molars. Hopefully soon! It's been a bit crazy especially on the nursing front.
So yesterday on a 5 hr A he did an 1:10 nap; today is 1:06 on close to 5A. Are these OT naps when on one nap?
Surprisingly he slept rather well considering he had a 6A to bed :o. He refused his CN and couldn't get him to sleep for awhile.
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So last night DS was waking up ever 1,5-2 hrs all night long :o
We did a one nap day after several days of following his cues since he has been ill. He still has a cold (side effects from chicken pox vaccine) but no fever. I'm not sure what's going on the teething front as he will not let me take a peak. He does seem to still be teething.
He's starting a leap too ::)
Does any of this seem normal for his age? He hasn't woken up like this in months.
Our easy today was:
WU 8 am
S 12:51-2:31 pm (woke up twice)
S 7:30 pm
Woke up every 1.5-2 hrs
I'm have also been sick so this has been draining.
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Today I did a 4:50 A (almost 5A) after a shortened night (8:30-7 am) and he only did an hour? Does that mean he's OT from two one-nap days in a row?
Yesterday I'm pretty sure he did 5-5.5A before his first nap. I was in and out and he may have been awake earlier than 8.
NW were about every 3.5 hours so about 2 before up for the day at 7. No amount of APOP changed that lol
So now I'm wondering is he getting OT? Or is this just the process of settling into one nap?
I have to do a CN bc he won't make it to a 8 pm bedtime.
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Yes a two nap day seems sensible to get you to normal bedtime xx
I'd say there is a lot going on with sickness and teeth and IS and likely all affecting nap length. It does also take a while to settle in general.
Lets see how today goes x
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Hi shiv!
Hope all is well on your end. Well yesterday and last night were not so good. We did 2 nap day and it backfired. I wasn't home so my DH put him down for naps and bedtime.
We did:
WU 7 am
S 11:50-12:50 pm
S 4:57-5:38 pm (fought CN; kept waking up at first)
BT 9:20 pm (fought bedtime)
Lots of stirrings and about 3 NW. I know the long CN wasn't good bc it pushed out the day so much. I'm assuming OT but he woke up at 7:30 today so only had about 9.25 hours of sleep ugh.
What would you do if you were me in this situation? Part of me wants to just push for one nap today but I'm scared that it will cause more OT. If I try for 2 naps with a 5 first A then I'll get a 13-14 hr day.
Should I shorten the first A and give him a two nap day or press on and hope for a longer nap. Should I shorten the last A if I only get an hour?
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Given such a short night Id shorten the first A time and do a 2 nap day? Maybe get over the OT?
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Lol I would love to get over the OT. He's definitely touchy in mood this morning.
What would be a good A time? I used to have a good grasp of this but lately second guessing everything. Would 4.5 be ok?
I ended up doing this:
WU 7:30 am
S 12-1:15 (fought sleep)
S 5:25-5:50 pm (fought sleep very hard
BT 9:20 pm (fought sleep for 30 plus minutes)
With 2 nap days noticing that he totals around 11 hrs total sleep. On one he's around 13-13.5 hrs total. Not sure how 2 nap days help keep OT at bay.
Also a few nights this week he has had hour long NW where he's tossing and turning. No crying just lots of movement, sitting up, trying to get into a position. Usually it's 3-4 in the am. That's usually when we either give him a dose or re-dose with Motrin or Tylenol. I suspect it's the teething molars as the ped said she could see one about to come through. Also it's happened mostly on 2 nap days it has happened on 1 nap day as well. He's a slow teether so it could take awhile to actually cut. Do molars or teething in general cause toes type of NW?
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Yeah he gave you an UT nap for sure so shortening that first A time on 2 nap days isn't going to work.
I think you'd be best setting naps and bedtime. So if you decide wake up is 8 do 8am wake up, 1pm nap, 8pm bedtime. Just stick to it for a week and see does the consistency help even things out. Any thoughts?
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I think I might have to. Last night was horrendous. We had a long NW of 1.5 :o yet he still woke up at 8 totaling at 9.5 total night sleep! He seems fine burin getting concerned ashis night sleep seems to be deteriorating and I'm exhausted. That's why I'm wondering about teeth bc I guess I'm just shocked that this is the 4thor 5th time this week.
So setting nap and bedtime for a week means just one nap correct. What happens if he wakes really early or short naps his only nap?
At this point I'm willing to try anything.
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Yes one nap. If he wakes really early you resettle as best you can. If he short naps and you can't resettle then you keep things low key and avoid car or buggy late on as he may nap and make it to bedtime or as close to bedtime as you can.
The issue with what you're doing at the minute is the day is slightly too short on one nap but he's not tacking on to his night sleep meaning he's waking earlier and earlier. One nap then means earlier bedtime then another earlier wake up leading to needing 2 naps which is no longer restorative as it makes the night too short and so on.
I would hope setting it will take the guess work out of it and allow his body clock to set. After 3 weeks of set naps our nap lengthened.
What do you think?
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Yea I agree bc I feel like we go in circles bc he doesn't tack on sleep where wake up can be consistent so like you said everything gets earlier and earlier until I need two naps which doesn't work because he pushes for longer A times until he's overtired from too long of a day and UT naps.
He's always been a tough nut to crack but it's now on a different level.
I rather go the set nap route and hope for a more consistent nap length and nights.
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Honestly i think it's worth a shot. I really think youve given the alternatives a really good go.
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Yea I agree! I'll give it a go for a couple of weeks and hopefully it will work out!
Last night he slept 12 hours! He had two brief NW which I nursed (I'm working on night weaning when he's well again), and a couple of stirrings where he just put himself back to sleep. Overall a great night. His nap was only 1:15 but I just stuck with BT (as close as possible); he made it until 10 to 8 pm.
He woke up at 8 am! So it looks promising.
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So glad. Yeah don't worry about night weanings while he's ill. He might just need the comfort. I always fed at 6am even when mine were big lumps to get them back to sleep ;)
Thrilled you'd such a good night!!
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Me too!!!! Thank you ;D it's giving me hope for sure!
Lol yea I don't mind feeding when he's not feeling well bc other times he just resettles himself.
So we put him down for his nap at 1 pm (5 hrsA) and he only slept 1:10. Is that common when first setting nap and bedtime? I know you mentioned it took you 3 weeks of setting to see lengthened naps. I'm assuming it's OT naps?
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Yes it's like they are wired to nap the usual length. I was able to extend by going in about 10 mins before they notmally woke to help them extend xx
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Yea I figured it was OT. Wake to sleep rarely worked for this bub so I'm hoping that as his body adjusts to the new routine it will naturally lengthen.
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Fingers crossed. Fingers and toes crossed you get another good night xx
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Yes!!!! We'll be woke after 27 minutes and had a hard time settling. He did around 5.5 to BT I'm trying to stay consistent at 8 pm. Hopefully it will be a good night!
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Well it wasn't the best night. He had 4 NW including a longer one and a EMW that I managed to APOP to squeeze out 20 minutes to get him closer to an 8 am wake up.
For an EMW you still stick to the set nap time right?
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Yes just stick to it as much as possible xx
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So last night went better.
He woke up at7:30 this morning ??? His wake ups seem to be getting earlier. We started out at 8, then yesterday was 7:45; today 7:30. Is this supposed to happen? Is it OT building up?
I don't mind sticking to the set nap and bedtime but wondering if earlier wake ups are a part of him adjusting or is he going to keep waking up earlier and earlier. I was really liking the 8-8 plan lol
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It will just take time to settle I think. I wouldn't adjust nap or bedtime yet. It could also be he just doesn't need a 12 hour night and you may need an 8-8.30/8.45 day. 11.5 night sleep is super.
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Yea 11.5 night is way better than10 hour nights on two naps. He had two NW and 3 and 6:30 so I'm definitely happy with the improvement.
How long should I stick with it before deciding ok he needs a 12.5 hr day?
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Is it normal to get long NW (an hr) when adjusting to one nap? It wasn't the best day:
WU 7:30 am
S 1:15-2:45. (A 5:45; Tried for 1 but so wired he fought sleep; broken nap and woke up crabby)
BT 7:45 pm (A5)
NW 12:30-1:30ish; 4 am
All around restless sleep. I don't want to quit but it's so tempting when he's clearly getting OT.
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Keep at it! try and remember Youve been dealing with NWs for a long time and all the other reasons you're doing this. Let see how today goes. The nap was 1.5 yesterday which is great. And you'd a fab night a couple of nights ago. Don't lose hope!
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He woke up at 6:50!!!! I tried everything but he's too wired :'(
He got less then10 hours of sleep and now I do t know what I should do. I feel like whatever I do will make things worse
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But he was asleep 7.45?? So an 11 hour night?
If you really don't want to stick at it you could do a very short CN early on and then longer nap later and later BT? Just for one day to get him back on track. I'm not convinced it'll help but I don't think evening CN works at all.
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Yea he had an 11hour night with 2 NW with one lasting an hour then a early wake up.
I have somewhere to be at 10 so maybe he will pass out in the car on the way there but doubtful considering how early it is. In case I don't get a CN in the am; maybe his regular nap time (or close to it) and an EBT?
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I'd stick to regular nap yes if you don't get a CN. If you do get a CN make sure it's very short if you can.
I'd do bedtime no earlier than 7.30 and if you do just remember he's not going to tack on so he may well be up at 6.30 xxx
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Unfortunately the car ride ended up being extra long which meant an over the hour nap so I guess I'm going to go for the CN around 4 ::) and hope for the best.
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Oh dear. Hope rest of day went ok xx
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Hi!
So the 2 nap day put us back on track but then on one nap he did the following:
WU 7:53 am
S 12:53- 2:24 pm ( A 5; kept grabbing mouth and fighting sleep hard; woke crying at 40; woke up and had a meltdown)
BT7:27 pm (really crabby and tired)
NW 9:50, 2:57
Woke at 6:30 nursed him. Up and happy at 7
It's an 11.5 hr night. I'm wondering if he's capable of doing consistent 12 hr nights even on one nap. What do I do if he doesn't?
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You hope the nap lengthens or you'll have the resort to a CN every few days to keep wake up from becoming too early.
How'd today go?
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Hope it lengthens!
Today he woke at 7 am. Originally he woke at 6:30 but I managed to nurse him down but he woke less than a half hour later ::)
NW 9:50, 3 am, 6:30 am
WU 7 am
S 10:18-10:53 am (A 3:18; seemed really tired so gave him a CN)
S 2:24-4:24 pm (A 3:31; tried to nurse to sleep but didn't let him. Críed a little. Semi woke at 40 crabby. Woke up at 1.5 fell asleep on the boob)
BT 8:47 pm (A 4:23; fighting sleep)
He seems to be hurting. Keeps grabbing his mouth, wants to nurse nonstop. I gave him Tylenol before his Nap which helped a little bit. Gave him Motrin before BT. Not sure what tonight will look like!
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I think you need to get back to being consistent. That CN day was meant to be a one off to get on top of the OT to get back to one nap. Otherwise you are back to just guessing day by day what's happening and he will get all confused.
Sounds like teeth are moving a bit. Poor wee man.
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Yes! His teeth are bothering. Yesterday was a one nap day disaster but he fell asleep slightly earlier then only slept 50 minutes then rejected the CN ::) so he ended up having a long A to bed. He woke at 7 and made it to 12:15 so hopefully a long nap
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Hi!
I have been switching between one and two nap days depending on the wake up. I'm wondering if that messes with the set nap routine. His one nap days are starting to lengthen but not enough for a 5 hr A to bed. It ends up being 5.5-6 hours sometimes :o
I end up with NW every 2-3 hrs then an EMW ::) which then I have to do a two nap day to get back on track. How long does this typically last?
Oh and he's still teething molars :-X
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It does mess with the set routine. You're better only doing a two nap day every 4/5 days and pushing through on the others. It usually lasts a couple of weeks IME.
Poor fella. Molars are awful x
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Ok I can try hardest. The molars are making it harder to stretch him.
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I know. It's awful for them. Even if you can do 2 one nap days then a one nap day?
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It really is :'( I have never seen him like this before.
Today we did one nap which went pretty well all things considered. So hopefully we will get a good enough night to do another one nap day tomorrow.
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I don't think we appreciate how sore it must be. My 5yo is getting back molars now and has been so upset with the pain. Can't imagine a poor wee baby.
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:o they still teeth at 5 years old?! I thought there was a light at around 2-3 lol
Today I managed to push him to 4:45 but he was done for. He had a 12 hour night though which is great. OT and pain related NW but he still managed 11.5 hrs of sleep.
Do you think I should try a slightly earlier BT to avoid too much OT?
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Lol 5/6 yo molars :)
Yes maybe do bedtime a bit earlier. Hopefully hell have another good night x
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Well last night wasn't too bad...3 NW again but that's because we missed bedtime since we went swimming. We did two straight days of one nap days and he didn't do too bad. For me it's the longer A after his nap since he will only do about 1.5 hours. So after two days of one nap and longer A to bed, I get OT long waking and an EMW where he won't settle. Today was a two nap day which so far so good so bedtime is back at 8 p.m
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So maybe 2 days one nap followed by a two Nap catch up day and then do three until he's handling the A time better.
How is he handling the 5 hour A time before the nap?
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Yea I'm thinking that's best for now because after two one so days he's doing EMW and is more cranky.
With 5 hour A times he handles them really well but then by the 3rd day in a row he's exhausted which is also from NW and EMW by then too. After a 2 nap day, he can handle 5hour A times easily before the nap. Afterwards (A before bed) is a little harder for him.
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Hi!
I was wondering if you can help me make sense of the last two days?
Both were one nap:
Sunday
NW 9:41; 11; 1:53 am
Woke at 7:24, nursed then dozed off
Total 10.5 hrs
WU 7:40 am
S 12:37-2 pm (A 4:57; )
BT 7:27 pm (A 5:27; resisting sleep. Not enough wind down and not soothing enough)
Yesterday:
NW 11:54 pm
Total 11,5
WU 7:17 am
S 12:33-2:29 pm (A 5:16; woke at 1:11)
BT 7:42 pm (A 5:13; wired and cried)
NW 11:02; 12:05; 3 am; 6;30; up at 7:40 am
Does it look like OT? Should I do a 2 nap day to help?
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That was a great nap yesterday. Awesome you were able to extend it. I'd be tempted to do a one nap day with that 7.40 wake up.
I'm also wondering what is going on with the feeding to sleep? How are you managing to settle the NWs?
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Yea it was a great! I'm going to attempt s one nap day and hopefully stick to a earlier BT if he seems extra tired.
Feeding to sleep is 50/50; sometimes he self settles sometimes I nurse. I'm waiting for the molars to night wean completely and do some sleep training. I would love to start now but I feel bad doing that when he's like this.
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How you getting on Jenn?
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Hi Shiv!
Well we are doing ok. Managed a week of one nap days with an average of 2 NW but two nights towards the end of the week had 4 NW including long ones so I assumed it was OT. Friday he went to sleep after a 4 hour A despite every effort to keep him up. He slept for two hours! So This is whathappened since Thursday:
NW 9:20; 10:49-11:29; 2:12-3:12; 6:43
Total 10.5
WU 8 am
S 1:02-2:24 pm (A 5:02)
BT 7:42 pm (A 5:18)
Friday:
NW 10;15 ; 10:57, 1:45; 5:35
Total 11.5
WU 8:11 am
S 12:18-2:18 (A 4:07; cranky and very tired. Couldn't make him last. Wouldn't even eat)
BT 7:54 pm (A 5:36; fighting sleep and hyper)
Yesterday:
NW 10:59; 2:25-3:20 (tossing and turning crying; gave him Tylenol), 6:22 am
Total: 11 hrs
WU 7:53 am
S 10:44-11:17 am (A 2:51; car)
S 3:41-4:57 pm (A4:24; was tired before when I tried at3.5)
BT 9:13 pm (A 4:16; parents were here)
Last night woke at 10:45 crying but resettled then up at 4:45 and I nursed. He woke up bright eyed and ready to go at 6:50 :o
Souls I push to 1 nap at 12:30 or do a better job at a2 nap day to help catch up?
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I think I'd do two naps today just to curb the OT??
We're off to a party for my friends LO so will respond properly later xx
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How'd you get on? NWs any better last night?
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Hi!
Well yesterday was weird as he refused to nap on the go I guess too much going on so by the time we got home and he napped, it was a 6.25 A time :o
He napped for nearly 2.5 hours then I put him to beds little earlier. He had about a 4.75A to bed. There were a couple of stirrings but only one full of waking. He did a 11.5 night so woke up happy at 7:30. Today was strange as my husband took him out and he fell asleep in the car for 15 minutes so had to wing the rest of the day.
NW 2:06-2:29 (tossed and turned a lot)
Total 11
WU 7:35
S 11:55-12:10 pm (A 4:20; in the car)
S 1:43-2:55 pm (A 1:33)
BT 8:05 pm (A 5:10; tired but fighting sleep)
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That was a great nap off that long A time. If only he would do That and the same night every day!!! 😝
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Lol Right!! Is it too much to ask?! I wonder if it's because we end up with a longer A after his nap that causes more NW. When I did a longer first A then a 4.75A to bed he only had one NW and 11.5 hr night.
Last night we got 3NW which may have been OT since his last A was over 5 hours with a little more total A for the day.
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Is be struggling to make the 5 hour A in fhe morning? Mine definitely did better with longer A time to nap and slightly shorter to bed.
It really could be because his nap is just an ok length that he is getting OT. It would be great if it could get to 2 plus hours.
What are your thoughts?
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He can easily make it to 5 hours unless it's been a couple of days in a row and he hasn't had good nights. The day he did 6.25, he was hyper but he didn't have a meltdown which was very surprising to be. I'm wondering if DS just prefers a slightly shorter A to bed and longer A before the nap. Looking back at his records it's hard to tell bc I have stuck to more of set times in terms of making sure he has a 12 hr day rather than calculating A times. It seems as though he has the worst nights when both the first A and A before bed are longer than 5 hours. At 5 hours A in the am, rarely does he sleep past 1.5.
Today he woke at 7 so I'm sticking to a 12:30 nap and see what I get. Hoping for a longer nap! Then maybe a slightly shorter A to bed if I get a good nap?
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Yes that sounds like a great plan. I think he would be better with longer A to nap and shorter A to bed as he does seem to get OT after a shortish nap which is understandable. Easier to have the longer A time after a night sleep.
Let me know how he gets on.
Teeth through yet??
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Unfortunately teeth have not come through he's a very slow teether of course ::) they are swollen and it seems one of the four is peaking as if it's about to cut or is slowly cutting through.
Yesterday looked ok then turned disaster. He had a short night off one nap. Woke up around 6:15 and tried for an hour to get him to sleep. When I finally gave up and changed his diaper, he pooped. So not like him. Only slept 10.25 with two NW; one of them lasting around a half hour tossing and turning. He was whimpering in his sleep so maybe teeth?
We took a break from medicating bc he takes awhile to teeth and worried about over medicating for an extended period but I may have to medicate. This is what yesterday looked like:
NW 12:40; 4; 6:55
WU 7:12
S 12:36- 2:41 (A 5:24; woke at 1:16 then 1.5)
BT 7:38 pm (A 4:57)
NW 12:55; 4-4:30
Up at 6:20 am. Ugh I don't know what to do for today. ???
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You may need a two nap day or it'll be early to bed? And then be same story tomorrow?
I know what you mean about teeth. It is such a long process that you can be medicating all the time.
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No no no!!! I definitely don't want a repeat lol of course this happens the night I get to go out lol needless to say I'm exhausted!
So today is a 2 nap day to get back on track. I'm wondering if I went wrong on the routine yesterday. Do you have any suggestions? Maybe still OT by bedtime despite a long nap and 5 hr A to bed?
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What about today? I'd have prob done two naps to get through to a decent bedtjme xx
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Today was just annoying lol
I did two naps and ended up with a 14.5 hr day with him fighting bedtime for 45 minutes!! Now he's twitchy so I'm definitely not looking forward to tonight. We were out most of the day but both naps were at home. I definitely miscalculated A times.
Today:
WU 6:21
S 10:05-10:49 am (woke up at a half hour but then dozed off while nursing had to wake him again)
S 2:54-4:31 pm (A 4:05; came home from the beach)
BT 9 pm (tried for 8:30 and he fought sleep even though he was clearly tired; very frustrating)
I'm not expecting a good night which is frustrating considering today was supposed to help the OT but may aggravate it ugh.
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Fingers crossed it went ok.
How fun to be at the beach!!! Bet he loved it 😜
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Lol he LOVES the beach. The first time I took him s couple of months ago was as if he lived there all his life lol he loves every aspect of it including swimming.
It was an ok night but that's ok...we had a great day ;D
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Sounds Awesome!!!! We have to live too eh? My poor baby hasn't napped more than 20 mins in a row all day. Difficulty with having big sisters who have busy lives 😜😜
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I'm following as have read thread as we are going through the same thing!
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I honestly can't imagine doing all of this with two!!! I go crazy with one!
So I'm wondering how I can tell the difference when a nap is UT versus OT when on one nap?
Today he went down at 5 hrs A then woke at 33 then up after only 1.25 hrs ??? He woke happy but annoyed when I tried to resettle.
Wondering if this is what u should aim for: (I rather do set times)
WU 7:30
S 1-3 pm (hopefully)
BT 7:30/7:45 pm
He's about to start part-time daycare and they nap at 12:30 though; in checking to see if he can nap at one or else I'll have to shift the day up.
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I'm wondering how I know of my nap and bedtimes are ok in terms of OT vs UT. I'm getting 3NW which includes a ENW.
Total I did:
WU 8:35(slept in due to family function last night)
S 1:57-3:35
BT 9.09 pm (tried for 45 minutes)
??? Not sure why the fight to bed? Maybe I should have tried earlier? Residual OT from Fridat?
NW 12:49, 3:28, 5:49. Tossing and turning all early morning.
Could be molars. One looks like it's starting to break through. Hard to say bc he won't let me scope out the scene. I'll admit I don't reup meds at night.
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I think the set routine you posted looks perfect and I do think it might be time to do a push to one nap and a more set routine as the alternating seems to not be helping. You could do a 2 nap day every 5/6 days if he's waking earlier and needs a bit of a catch up.
Honestly I think he's in an UT OT loop and he's waking at light cycles of sleep in the night.
Hugs xx
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I can definitely start moving in that direction. Feels like DS is always in a UT loop lol
So I finally got a look inside his mouth after waking up with a slight swollen cheek. Looks like his top first molar and bottom first molar are starting to cut :o
He has definitely been having some rough nights the past few days and getting tired easier. I'll try to push without pushing too much.
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Yes gently but do push him along!!
Poor wee man. Teething is a nightmare x
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It really is! It's like a long torture for DSand for me to a lesser extent since I'm getting up too. Hoping they cut through soon!
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Hi!
I'm not sure what happened yesterday as he only had one NW but then was up at 6 am after 10 hours of sleep! I re-dosed in the middle of the night too ???
Yesterday:
NW 10; 10:50; 11:55; 4:33; woke at 7:0( then drifted for for 20 minutes
WU 7:25 am
S 12:57-2:56 pm (A 5:12; tired and cranky. Drifted easily; briefly woke at 2 hrs)
BT 7:42 pm (A 4:45; cranky but could be bc of molars)
NW 1 am; up wide awake in a good mood at 6:10.
Maybe I let him nap too long? Not enough A before bed? Argh I can't seem to get it right well almost right considering the teething situation.
He's actually cutting 3molars!!! :o
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I'd say that was a good day although shorter night. You're definitely getting a better nap off that longer A time.
How've things been
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Hi!
Yes it was definitely a phenomenal nap day. I was just a little confused on the shorter night but I think the monster nap caused a shorter night which is ok. I'm wondering if I should limit the nap to two hours should that happen again. Ill admit I'm not loving a 6 awake up lol
Anyways yesterday was a fluke day where he was extra tired and then we had a UT night.
Today he woke at 7:20 then we did around a 5.25 A and he napped for 1.5.
Should I stick to a 7:30 bedtime (5.25A) or go by a shorter A time like 4.75?
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If you do the shorter A time will he not just wake early or do you think he'll give you a 12 hour night?
I'd say a 2 hour nap is great. I used to do 2.5 and was happy with the 13 hour day YK?
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Yea he will probably wake up at 7 if I put him down before 7:30 which is NOT what I want lol.
Oh wow 2.5?! I would LOVE that to be the norm and have a 11 hour night! How did your routine look with a long nap and 13 hour day?
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We did something like
8am wake up
1-3.30pm nap
9pm bedtime
My DH isn't in from work until 6.30 so the later bedtime meant he had time with us too and I'm not a morning person so it suited me down to the ground.
With my Dd2 that didn't suit as my DD1 had started nursery and we needs to be out of the house by 8.45 and it didn't make sense for her to be up until 9pm when the older one was in bed at 7.30. So I did cap her nap at 2 hours and then 1.5 and kept to a 12/12.5 day so her day was something like
8am wake up
1-3 nap then 1-2.30
8/8.30 bedtime
I presume your little guy would prefer the longer A time before the nap and shorter one after to get a 13 hour day and longer nap?
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I ended up sticking to the 7:30ish bedtime where he did a 5.5 A. It was a little too long as he was crying by bedtim but it also gave me a 7 hour stretch and a great wake up (7:30 am) so I would say it was a success.
It seems he favors a 5.25 A for a nap ranging from 1.5-2 hrs of a nap. Is it true that anything under 2 hrs on a one nap is considered OT?
As for bedtime, what I do know is that he favors a 12-12.5 hr day max. Anything over that and he seems to be OT.
In terms of A I'm still hazy on what's appropriate for him. I could try a 4.45-5 A but then the dilemma is that if he only does a 1.5 nap then bedtime is too early ???
So in that case maybe just a set bedtime?
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Yeah I think you'd be best persevering with a set bedtime as much as possible. Sounds like persevering paid off with a great night and wake up. He's coping much better with the A times now it seems! Well done you on sticking with it xx
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Thank you so much for your help! The set bedtime definitely helps. Last night we got a lot of NW in the early am but it seemed like it was due to molars. He still had an11.5 night so things are definitely improving on one nap. But overall his EASYis pretty consistent in terms of wake up, nap time and bedtime which is great. I don't think he has ever been this consistent! Mainly bc I was too loose with it lol
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Yayyyyyyy!!! Am delighted for you all!!! Long May it last ;)
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Hi Shiv!!
I'm not sure if DS is in OT land it its teething. He's starting to fight bedtime and he's at 3-4 NW a night :o still cutting molars smh
He's at times getting tired by 4.5 then taking a long nap so I push to bedtime which ends up being a 5.5 A. In pretty sure the fight is OT. Some days I can stretch to 5-5.5 A before his nap.
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I think you need to set that A time before the nap and keep things consistent. Honestly I wouldn't vary that A time by more than 10/15 mins. So if it was 5.5 Id do 5.15 minimum otherwise A time
To bed gets too long and then he NWs then more tired in the morning so needs his nap earlier and its a vicious cycle.
I know you were setting bedtime but you likely need to set wake up and nap too to keep things consistent for him if that makes sense.
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And also with the shorter A times you'll have no chance of a good long nap which complicates things too xx
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Yea that definitely makes sense. I guess I ended up confusing myself so unsure where to set lol. Should I start with:
WU 8 am
S 1-3 (hopefully)
BT 8 pm
Or
WU 8 am
S 1:30-3:30 (hopefully)
BT 8 pm (hopefully)
He's now 15.5 months old.
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Ok so he ended up with a short night ??? Hasn't done this for what feels like awhile I'm assuming OT but we have done A times like this before and sometimes more so maybe the molars bothering him more? Or maybe making him overall more tired so getting OT faster?
This was yesterday:
NW 11:28; 3:21; 6:38
Total 12 hrs
WU 8 am
S 1:17- 2:59 pm (A 5:17; took 15 minutes of him fighting sleep despite being sleepy at lunch)
BT 8:10 pm (A 5:11; fought sleep for 20 minutes; OT)
NW 10:21; 10:35 (reupped on meds), 2:45, 5:22
Woke up at 6:45!!! Yikes!
He's clearly uncomfortable as now he's hitting down on furniture. I'm just wondering if it's also OT from his routine.
Any advice for an exhausted mama?
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Hi Shiv!
I'm sorry for posting...again. Last night was a horrific night and am at a lost. I'm pretty sure it was teething related but I'm so sleep deprived that I barely know my own name lol
Anyways, he only slept for a total of 9 hours. He looks exhausted but was fighting sleep in different portions of the night and this morning despite him nodding off he kept jolting awake and squirming not wanting or unable to sleep. Seems like OT but he's also apparently cutting all 4 molars so maybe it's just that and I need to accept that for now. Here's yesterday:
NW 12:20; 3:45; 6:30
WU 8:15
S 1:05-3:20 pm (A 4:50; tried to stretch but he was miserably tired)
BT 8:40 pm (A5:20; tried for earlier but didn't fall asleep until this time)
NW 11:38; 1:24-2:35 (tossing and turning; eyes would close then he would pop his eyes open)
Up for the day 6:50 am so matter what I did ???
I'm so confused
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Ugh nightmare!! I'd say you're right it's teeth but OT.
What about a two nap catch up day tomorrow to see can you get on top of it a bit. Either long then a CN and later bedtime. Or the other way round if he won't be too miserable waking after a short nap. Could maybe time a car nap.
How's the self settling this weather?
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Self settling is a mixed bag lol I'm trying to cut him some slack given the molars
Definitely doing a 2 nap day tomorrow since today was a complete sleep disaster. He barely napped since we were out and about. He screamed at bedtime and woke up 45 minutes later screaming again.
Whew! Preparing for another rough night :-\
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Ugh!!! Hope it goes ok. Let me know xx
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Hi Shiv!
I hope all is well with you.
Whelp DS was up at 5 am after his diaper leaking ::) I tried everything for 2 hrs until I accepted defeat.
Yesterday he did an almost 1.75 nap after about a 4.25 A. Then I tried for a CN around 4 hrs later and he totally rejected it. He ended up doing around a 6.25A to bed :-\
Total if 9 hours if sleep...ugh!
Not sure what to do as I never had his early of a WU. I know it's a 2 nap day but how to stretch it without risking another short OT night.
Any suggestions?
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Oh he's a rascal. I did wonder would he refuse the CN.
With such an early start Id maybe do nap after 4 hours and CN later on.
and hopefully get back to one nap tomorrow and try make things more set again.
Hugs xx maybe nap when he does! 😜
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Hi Shiv!
Thank you for the help. He ended up taking two naps stretching the day out to get a wake up of 7:30 am. He woke due to a diaper leak ::)
I pushed him to one nap on a 5.25A then he only slept 1.5 bc of loud construction then did a 5.25 A to bed for 7:30. He definitely had an OT (4 NW) night waking up at 7:15 argh! I think his nap was OT bc he was pretty whiny for the rest of the day.
So I tried pushing to one nap today and well that didn't work so he's napping right now. Hoping for 2 naps to push the day out and get a 7:30-8 wake up tomorrow.
Update: of course at like a 4.25A he naps for 2.25 hours waking up at 2 pm! Bedtime is usually between 7:30-8 pm as I want to keep WU between 7:30-8 am. i wonder if 7:30-7:45 pm is ok given the shorter A before his nap. I don't want a UT night but I also don't want an OT one lol
Not sure if my A times are too long bc of the teething? He also has a throat infection smh. Rough week!
He's almost 16 months and I'm wondering what's typical in A times. Seems like it was starting to work out but now it's all gone awry :-[
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Id say 5 hours is normal enough for a LO who needs 1 nap.
Sounds like he was catching up today?
I think the issue is he fights the CN after a long nap so if you think he needs shorter A times then you'll really need to do short am nap, like 20-30 minutes then longer nap later on. And you'll need to be very consistent about waking him yk?
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Ugh I'm not a fan of two nap days. I can try the short am/long pm route on days he needs catch up.
Yea he had a monster nap at a shorter A time which led to bedtime fighting and crying for around a half hour before falling asleep at 8 pm. Not sure if UT or OT but he ended with an A time of 6 hours yikes!
I'm thinking if it's a one nap day I'll do 5 hours tops and see if that helps then 5 hours after that.
Hopefully:
WU 7:30 am
S -12:30-2:30 (hopefully)
BT 7:30 pm
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I don't think 2 nap days will work either.
That sounds like a good plan. Let me know how today goes xx
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Will for sure! He was up for more than 2 hours from around 2-4:30 am!!! It was absolute torture.
He was up at 8; sleeping a total of 9.5 hours. I'm assuming OT from the very long A to bed but maybe also the earlier monster nap? So confused.
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Well he had tons of NW ???
His sleep is deteriorating but he had an awesome nap today again. Could it be UT from the massive nap? Or maybe residual OT from the horrible night before? Or maybe it's just his teeth despite me medicating most of the night.
This was today:
NW 11:18; 2:25-4:40 am; 7:09 (managed to get him back to sleep)
Total 9.5 hrs
WU 8:04 am
S 1:03-3:28 pm (A 4:59; fought sleep a little)
BT 8:33 pm (A 5:05; drifted easily; woke when I kissed him on the head)
NW 9:23; 11; 2am; 4 am;
Up at 6!!!!! Getting a total of 8.5 hours!!!
Should I just medicate all night long and adjust my easy? He has to be OT now. He's never slept this little and its Making me really upset.
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Even with teeth that's a lot of NWs. I am beginning to wonder if you've a prop issue going on?? How are you resettling night wakings? Is there Independent sleep going on for the nap and bedtime? Your EAS in general is super so I do wonder if he just isn't able to resettle when he comes into a light cycle of sleep.
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Not sure I guess it's possible...with NW sometimes he resettles on his own and sometimes I nurse or cuddle. It's hard to do any form of ST with hominem so much pain.
The weird thing is that just a couple of days ago he was sleeping longer stretches. He got into a car accident this weekend with my husband where I wasn't there. He is fine physically just a few bruising. However, he had two days of bad naps and OT due to being at the hospital and having a rough night and then having another bad nap day the following day. Maybe bad OT?
Could it be separation anxiety?
The hospital and My ped checked him out and he was fine. The only other thing is that the 2.25-2.5 nap he had is causing issues with night time.
Maybe I'm just reaching in trying to explain this lol
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Awh poor wee man. That must have been an awful experience for you all.
When you were having some success you were being very consistent with the routine. I think the two nap days knock things a lot for him.
I think I'd get back to a set routine. Do 5 then nap then set bedtime. I don't think swapping and changing helps him much in terms of getting caught up. What are your thought?
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Yea it was such a nerve wrecking situation!
I definitely think it's worth a try. I definitely think it's routine bc Friday we had a 2 nap day to help lengthen the day and catch up a bit. He slept 12 hours overnight with quick and fewer NW. Yesterday was a disaster one nap day bc we were out and about. He slept horribly due to OT and only got 7.5 hours of night sleep! Looking back at his records he only had 3 days of 11 hours of overall sleep. For him, he's best at around 13 hours of sleep. So it may be a mix of molars (one cheek is slightly swollen poor baby) and OT.
All that to say that 2 nap days help lengthen the day but it doesn't really help catch up on sleep bc the overall sleep ends up being 11 hours with a 14 hour day.
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Yeah I agree. I think you need to save those 2 naps days for occasionally needing to lengthen the day.
I would work away establishing a consistent routine with set nap and set bedtime xx
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So I'm not sure if my A times are off on one nap days. It seems on one nap days I'm getting earlier wake ups ???
Yesterday:
WU 7:27
S 12:41-2:41 pm (A 5:14; drifted easily)
BT 8:08 pm (5:27; took between 20-30 minutes to fall asleep)
NW stirred at 10:30; woke at 12:15; 4 am
Up at 6:40am
The strange thing is that on 2 nap days I get an almost 12 hour night which never happened before. I mean it's good bc it brings wake up back to where it needs to be but the I do a one nap day and I'm back to a EMW that I can't resettle.
Not sure if I should push him to one nap today or do a 2 nap day to lengthen the day. Not sure if this is OT or UT behavior. I'm caught in a cycle of 1 and 2 nap days again ::)
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Have you set the nap and bedtime? So is nap always at 12.40? With set times you need to forget about A times for a while and just work off a set routine. That's what will help the wake up settle I'd think.
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Yes ideally I want this type of routine since he may start daycare soon:
WU 7:30 am
S 12:30-2:30 pm
BT 7:30 pm
Do you think with this he won't be UT after a 2 hour nap? Perhaps he was OT.
Who knows anymore but it's true when I was consistent I saw improvements but then it went array when molars started.
If he wakes early though I'm not sure whether to push through or give a 2 nap day.
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I think for 7-10 days you need to forget about OT or UT and just establish the routine yk? If he wakes early Id resettle for as long as possible then keep the nap the same. I wouldnt change things by more than 15 mins give or take.
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Ok I'm scared lol but seriously I will give it a go as I'm so confused with his sleeping patterns I need to know what's what. I know his molars are something I can't control but I can definitely help with a more established routine.
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Lol. I just think it to this point swapping and changing and guessing isn't really helping as he's still NW etc. Sometimes a set day just helps them adjust. Let's see how the first couple of days go xx
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Very true! It's exhausting doing the guesswork. So he woke with a cold which now he's congested; something to add to the mixed bag of stuff going on with him lol
Today he only took an hour nap and then I just pushed to 7:30; got some OT wakings including an hour long one.
Question: how much do I push with him having a cold? Or do I just go with his cues for a few days.
FTM so I feel like I'm stepping on eggshells with well everything!
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With a cold unless he's a bad temp id just get on with things. Really once the cold is done the teeth will be moving so as long as he's not very ill Id just push on. I'm presuming by cold you mean a runny or stuffy nose??
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Hi shiv
Would you still push if he went to bed at 9 and woke at 6:30 (he tossed and turned for an hour before getting up). Turns out he has 5 teeth trying to come through. I reupped last night at 1! Maybe meds ran out maybe it's bc I did 2 naps and made the mistake of allowing him to sleep. Smh. This was after I saw your post :-\
Yesterday:
WU 6:55
S 10:30-11:30
S 3:30-4:45 pm
BT 9 pm (tried since 8:30)
Is this UT? Or OT? In any case so u just push to say 12:15?
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I'm so so sorry. I was just coming on to message and see how things were going and my post isn't here. I did reply the other day.
How have things been?
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He's horribly OT. Restless nights and today he woke up at 4:15 am! It's almost 6 here and he still hasn't gone back to sleep.
He's been fighting naps and sleep. I tried one nap days two days in a row. The first day only an hour of sleep then I stuck to the designated bedtime. He had 4 shortNW but was up at 7:45 which I thought ok great we can stick to the one nap. So then yesterday he did 2 hours after a 5.5 A (we got home later than expected) but fought bedtime until an A 0f 5.5. I know it was OT bc he was jolting a lot and stirred at the 1 hr mark. I don't know what to do :'(
It has to be a 2 nap day now if he doesn't go back to sleep. I don't even know how to approach this to fix some of the OT. I know I'm supposed to stick with the 1 nap but 4:15- 12:30 is a very long A and won't that make his OT worse?
These teeth are slowly killing me with sleep deprivation :'(
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What did you end up doing? To be honest I've never seen such distruption with teeth.
I think when you're sticking a plan It is really important to give it a fair run consistently. I know it's hard but doing that 5.5 A time was probably too much on day 2 yk?
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Well thankfully my husband stepped in and helped him resettle so he slept an additional 2 hours bringing his wake up time to 8ish. We did a one nap day which was in the car since we were out. Bedtime I managed to put him down by 7:30 (A 5 hrs).
He had a long waking where we gave him Motrin from 3-4. In addition to stirrings through the night.
I definitely think it's teeth and accumulated OT. He's always been a sensitive teether and he's getting 5 at the same time. Teething does make him more tired but he never really necessarily took in more sleep. So I expect a little OT with teething in general. But I also think longer A times (more than 5 hours) and trying to lengthen days with two naps have landed me in chronic OT land. So basically it's clawing our way back in tackling the OT built up.
I need to be consistent. I definitely agree that 5.5A is way too long for him. I was trying to stick with set times but maybe I should go by A times for now?
It's been hard bc we have been touring a lot of daycares lately in addition to regular errands so we have been on the go a lot in the last two weeks. So I know it is the inconsistency that's really getting him.
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I'm having a really hard time with one nap.
I'm still getting long NW 1-2 hrs not playful but not crying. I'm at my wits end. It's something with one nap. Looking back at my records, on one nap days I have the wakings that last. I don't get it. Even on 5 hr A times before and after the nap, I still get them.
Maybe I need anEBT for awhile?
I'm at a lost. Should I start a new thread. Maybe there's someone who has been through this?
Before the teeth we were fine on one nap where nights were drastically improving now he's just a terrible sleeper. Is it a skeeo regression?
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Lovely I'm going to be really honest and say I think it's inconsistency is the issue. And then when you throw teeth into the issue an already inconsistent routine becomes very unstable and OT sets in. I know life has to go on but I think he does need a consistent routine.
EBT for sure so long as he tacks on and doesn't just wake 11 hours later.
You can do one nap but you need set nap and bedtime whether by A time or actual time.
If you want to do two naps then it really needs to be short an long PM and you need to be really consistent with waking after 20/30 mins so you will need to manage outings around that for a while.
I think whatever you decide you need to stick at it for 2 weeks. No changes. Commit to it and let his body clock set.
Hugs. I know you are really struggling and am sure you're exhausted. I do think self settling may well be contributing. Can you just leave him at NWs to resettle himself?
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I also want to say at this age you can't look day to day. It really is about what happened over the last several days. So last nights NW are not just related to what happened that day but what has happened the previously few days. It may not be because he had one nap. It may well be becusee he had two two nap days followed by a one nap day and A time was just all over the place yk?
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Thank you for being so honest! I need that right now.
I will try my hardest to do a consistent routine. It's bad timing since I'm about to go to work PT and he will be with a nanny 3 days a week including during nap times :o
I will continue with one nap days unless he wakes super early where I have no choice. I think I will try A times consistency to hopefully curb the OT. Can I do a set nap time and A time of 5 hours to bed? Or is it better to have consistency across the board? If that's the case I'll try 5 hrs A, nap, 5 hrs A.
I think he can tack on sleep since there's so many NW wakings. Last night he did a 12.5 hr night so it is possible.
Does that sound like a good plan?
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😘😘
Yes one day by A time is likely fine. With a couple of BUTS!
Too early a nap can exacerbate EW so although I'd use A times if your ideal routine is 8-nap 1-8 bed for
Example then I wouldn't do nap any earlier than 11.30 regardless of wake up.
I would set a wake up in your head and not get him up before that time regardless of waking. You can adapt nap based on one he was awake from but keep reinforcing 'it's still night time ' if it is.
And also start the day at the same time. So if wake up is 8am and he only went back to sleep at 6.30 wake him And get him up. Starting the day at the same time really helps with a A time based routine.
Seem ok??
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That makes sense...
I'm wondering is this normal? Bc again I have a long NW (1.5-2 hours) in the early morning. He's tired but seems to be fighting sleep. He doesn't wake up crying but tosses and turns a lot. When he is drifting somewhat he will pop his eyes open. Is this OT?!
This is 5 days in a row that this has been happening. I been doing one nap consistently for 5-6 days with the last 4 being A times of 5, nap, 4:45-5, bed.
On two nap days I get short nights but it's my fault be I let him sleep more in the day. But as soon as I do one nap I'm getting these long wakings.
I know I should be consistent but at what point do I start seeing improvement?
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Hugs xx
Do me a facoir and write out your EAS for the last 5 days xx
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Sure!
Tuesday:
NW 10,11:15; 1:45; 4:15-6:15 am
Total 9.5
WU 8:13 am
S 1:17-2:39 pm (A 5:04)
BT 7:27 pm (A 4:47)
Wednesday:
NW 7:43-8:19; 11:53; 2:16; 3:15-4:30am
Total 10.25
WU 8:23 am
S 1:19-2:56 (A 4:56)
BT 7:57 pm (A 5:01; quietly drifted; woke quickly at 35 whimpering. Tossed and turned a lot)
Thursday:
NW 10:30; 2:16; 3:18; 5:35
Total 11
WU 7:25
S 12:51-2:33 pm (A 5:26; fighting sleep for 20 minutes)
BT 7:32 (A 4:59)
Friday:
NW 10:50; 1:34; 3:30-5 am; 7:46
Total 10.5
WU 8:20
S 1:04-2:54 pm (A 4:44; cranky and crying)
BT 7:44 pm (A 4:50; drifted easily; restless for first hour)
Yesterday
NW 11:05; 12:27; 2:30-4 am; 6:40 am
Total 10.75
WU 8:23 am
S 1:20- 3:05 pm (A 4:57)
BT 7:56 pm (A 4:51)
NW 8:45; 10:45; 1:30; 4:15-6:30 am
Up at around 8 am. Not sure how to approach the day. One nap then EBT? More mess at night? I do notice it's usually early morning. Even if I reup since its time, it takes super long for him to fall asleep. One tooth broke through, one molar is 3/4 broken through, and I'm waiting on the other 3 to fully break through.
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So interesting thin happened...no long NW last night. A little OT and woke up two other times to reup on meds but a much better night.
This was yesterday:
WU 8:30
S 1- 2:15 (A 4.5; cranky and crying but UT nap woke up happy)
BT 7:35 pm (A 5:20)
NW 8:30 (resettled quickly; 11:15 pm ; 3:05 am (dose)
Up at 7:30 with 11.5 hrs of sleep
Not sure what to make if it.
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hey there, no advice re night wakings but I have noticed from your posts that you are medicating for teeth quite a bit. what are you using? I wouldn't use ibuprofen / paracetamol on a regular basis, studies have shown long term effects on heart and asthma respectively. not trying to scare you but maybe try teething gel instead if you are using pain killers. WDYT?
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Hey there!
I only medicate at night when he's cutting...I try teething tablets and gels but they work to a very limited degree.
I spoke to my pediatrician about it since I had the same concerns. She said as long as I'm following the dose and not medicating all day every day it should have minimal risks.
I'll definitely keep alternatives in mind.
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I think you just need to keep plugging on with being consistent.
Is there a reason you decided to do 4.5 instead of 5 hours A time? I know I must sound like a broken record but I do think you need to decide on your set routine and try to follow it. There is a big difference between 4.5 and 5 hours when trying to set a routine.
Looking at yesterday it really could be because he'd a good long A time that he was tied enough to sleep through.
What set routine are you planning to go with? Looking at the last few days the only thing that really stands out is that A times are varying. If you can get a set first A then we can see how the nap length is going. And work from there. I do think you should be waking him by 8am if he's not awake.
When you give meds in the night do you just dose and let him to resettle?
Is he going to sleep independently for nap and bedtime?
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He does self settle for some NW. To be honest bedtime it's a hit or miss. It's something I plan to enforce when these stinking teeth come through. But for now il being looser.
As for consistency, ok I can keep trying to be consistent. I guess I just need reassurance bc it feels like a hopeless situation.
Today my DH handled nap since I had a work meeting to attend and he totally botched it up by putting him down way late even though I urged him to be on time ::)
Of course he fought bedtime after having a 1:25 OT nap.
This was today:
WU 7:30 but stayed in bed until 8
S 1:15-2:30 pm
BT 7:40 pm
Thankfully I'm home for the next two days then I start work so it will be the nanny. Hoping this won't be catastrophe lol
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TBH I think you need to be giving him the chance for self settling for naps and bedtime. If he's medicated as you're doing he should be fine? I think at this age he could well be waking as we all do in light cycles of sleep and expecting you so he's not just turning over and going back to sleep Yk? Prop issues exacerbate NWS for sure at this age even if you've a perfect routine. Is he still feeding at night or have you faded that?
Sorry about today. Hope he sleeps ok tonight.
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I can definitely work on IS as much as possible. To be honest the Motrin only takes him so far in terms of pain relief; Tylenol seems to have no affect.
I do notice the long NW comes at a time where it's time for a redose. The last two nights I had the second dose ready to go which made it quicker and I guess prevented him from waking all the way up so they ended up being quick ones. This morning...I forgot and got wake ups every hour from 4-6 am. He's up at 6 so not sure whether to push through to 12:30 or try for a CN nap at around 9 then a longer nap around 1:30ish pm.
My fear is if I push too hard he will have a bad night and tomorrow I start work.
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Can you do a DF of Meds before He wakes?
It's up to you hun. If you want to just wing it for a while until you get back to work then do. But tell yourself you know you're not being consistent so if things are over the place don't beat yourself up. I can't get my DD3 on a good routine because of life and her NWs are shocking. Totally shocking. But I know until I can sort her routine it's doing to be as it is. So frustrating.
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How are you getting on? Hope going back to work went ok 😘
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Wow Shiv I can only imagine the chaos of NW with your third. Hugs to you!
Today didn't go horribly wrong. Although he had a weird night since his white noise cut off bc the battery of the speaker died. My husband had to change the speakers si DS woke and for riled up. Took an hour to go back to sleep.
The nanny gave him 2 naps which is f ideal but like you said until I get consistency, I can't be surprised by whatever comes.
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Hope you got some sleep this weekend xx
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I'm not getting 12 hour nights. Not sure if he's OT or UT
We been doing one nap but finally did 2 naps on Sunday since he gave me a OT wake up at 5 am and he slept wonderfully. Even had a nice wake up time on Monday.
I went back to 1 nap the last two days and am getting NW and an earlier wake up of 6:30. Ugh!
this is the last 2 days:
WU 7:15
S 12:30-2 pm
S 7:20 pm
NW 10:30; 2:45; 4:50 am
WU 6:20-7:20 (dozed in and out)
S 12:45-2:30 pm
BT 7:30 pm
NW 11 pm; 1:40; 4:20
Up at 6:40 am?!
Any thoughts? Ut or OT? I'm clueless now but he's been doing these A times on one nap for awhile.
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Oh my goodness. He really likes to keep you guessing.
Do you think he's coping with the A times? Or do you think as the days go on they're making him OT?
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Any sign of these teeth??
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Not sure...he's been taking longer naps 1.75-2.5 hrs but then I still get NW and shorter nights which could be the longer naps.
Teeth is definitely still happening. Still have 3 that haven't fully cut yet.
Tuesday:
WU 6:40-7:20 am (in and out)
S 12:41-2:26 pm (A5:22)
BT 7:30 pm
NW 11; 1:40; 4:20
Yesterday:
WU 6:40
S 12:25-3:05 pm (A 5:45)
BT 8:45 pm (A 5:40; maybe too late?)
NW 11:15; 3 am
Today:
WU 7:33 am (stirred at 6:45)
S 12:30-2:40 pm
BT 7:55 pm
I'm trying to stick with a nap at 12:30 the earliest bc I don't want to shift the days earlier. Maybe I just need to stick with it? Maybe I'm allowing too much A before BT despite the long naps?
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So you're doing set nap now? Rather than set A time? How many days all in have you done a 12.30 nap?
I wonder should you do 5 hours A time after the nap to bedtime?
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Sort of set nap. I go by A times unless he wakes earlier than I push him to 12:30 since any earlier and the day would move back too much. Usually he naps between 12:30 and 1 pm.
Today the nanny put him down at 1 despite a 7 am wake up which I told her 12:30 but she said he wasn't tired. He napped for 1.75 which isn't bad. Bedtime went over so instead of 7:45 it was closer to 8:10 when he fell asleep. Hopefully that won't make for a crazy night.
I can try 5 hours A after the nap for awhile and see if it helps. Ideally I don't want bedtime to fall before 7:30 pm just bc it's unrealistic on the days that I work.
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I think maybe set nap set bedtime will work for you then?
How is he finding you being back at work?
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He's adjusting pretty well. He cries s little when I leave but then is fine with the nanny and still takes good naps.
I'm wondering if set times will work at this point. Yesterday he did more than 2 hrs at Mao after a 5.5 Hr A then a 5.25 A to bed. I got 3 NW and a shorter night. Someone suggested when there's 2 Hr naps at his age a 13 hour day is more common. He's 16 months now.
Maybe he's having UT nights?
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I know here we needed a 13 hour day with a 2 hour nap for sure. I think set times would be a good way to go especially for the nanny too.
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Yea I agree. However it looks like he does need closer to a 13 hour day so trying that out with set times to see if that helps. He took a nap at 12:45 today (woke up at 7:45) and had a UT nap of an hour or so according to the nanny. So ended up putting him to bed at 7:30. I'm aiming for:
WU 7:30
S 1-3 pm
BT 8:30 pm
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That sound good. An 11 hour night is what we got with a longer nap. You need to be pretty strict about waking him at 7.30.
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Lol yes I do. Not sure why u have a hard time sticking to a strict WU.
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I was rubbish at sticking to a set wake up 😜😜😜. Third baby on and I'm still the same! Bit like when I used to let them sleep too long in the day as I was enjoying the break and been then kicking myself at 10pm when they wouldnt go to bed.
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Lol Shiv I do the same thing despite my better judgment 🙈
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It's a balancing act!!!!
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I have a question: at 17 months..,what's a typical easy with a 13 hour day with a 2 hour nap?
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My DD1 did 8am nap at 1.30 and then bed at 8.45ish. She needed 5.5 before the nap.
My DD2 did 5 hours before the nap but then she needed At least 6 hours to bed after a 2 hour nap. For that reason I started capping her nap so she'd be going to bed at a similar time to DD1.
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Ok that's a good reference point. It's looking like he may need a 5.5 A for a good 2 hour nap unless he had a really awful night.
Bedtime it may look like 5.25-5.5 after a 2 Hr nap.
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It's so tricky isn't it?! But yes I'd say that sounds like a plan.
Did those teeth ever come through?!
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Ugh! 2 have finally come in and he's working on the remainder two :o
So my nanny put him down for a nap after w 6 Hr A. She said he wasn't tired. I kind of think he was OT. Anyways he only napped for 1.5 which I think it's slightly OT. So I'm thinking a bedtime at 8 which is a 5 Hr A? Does that sound reasonable?
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Yes maybe 7.45 asleep for 8?
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I ended up doing the 8 pm bedtime and he woke every 2 hours. First 1.5 tossed and turned in his sleep. I'm wondering if it was a little UT. Hard to say because another molar is breaking through so sleep the last few days have been shotty.
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How've you been getting on? My wee granny passed away in Friday so ive not been about so sorry for slow reply x
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I'm so sorry to hear about your granny. My somcerest condolences.
Well still getting wake ups. One molar is cutting the other looks stagnant. His upper canines look swollen and transparent under the gums so not sure what that means lol
I was wondering, after a 2.5 hr nap is 5.25-5.5 A to bed enough?
I got a 9.5 night but his nap started a little later that'll usual since Sunday's is church and errands.
WU 8 am
S 1:45-2:15 (car)
S 2:30-4:30ish
BT 9:45 pm (sooo late)
3 NW at 11:45; 3:30; 6:30
Up at 7:45 am.
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😘 thanks x we're getting there.
I would say if you are thinking he needs more A time than that after 2.5 nap you may be best to cap the nap at 2 hours?
The day you posted you'd have probably been. Water waking him at 3.30 to get to bed closer to your set time.
How are the set times coming on?
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Set times were somewhat working. I'll be honest the last 3 days he has been sleeping a lot. Not sure what's going on. He has been sleeping in and taking monster naps. I think it's teeth bc I can hear him wake up at night whimpering then going back to sleep. Sometimes he willfully wake up about twice. Usually middle of the night then early morning.
I'm trying to get him back to an earlier wake up but I feel bad waking him up lol
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How are things going? It's hateful having to wake them isn't it 😝
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Hello!
Well things are confusing smh. We been doing set naps of 1 pm give or take 15 minutes. For the most part naps are 2-2.5 hours. Nights are unpredictable and wake ups aren't set either. He's still working on teeth ::)
He seems to be working on cutting a bottom molar and an upper canine is moving down. Looks like it's about to cut bc it's very transparent towards the bottom of the gum.
I'm confused about bedtime. I don't seem to get it right. Some nights we get nice long stretches. Other nights long NW. I'm wondering if he needs more A time before bed but not sure.
Yesterday he did 4.75-5 A to nap with the nanny then a 6 hour A to bed. He only woke up once. Today it ended up being a 5.75 A to nap (I got him home too late) and a 5.5 to bed. Now he's been awake for one hour and counting. Similar thing happened last week. He will be 18 months next week.
What does a typical 18 month old schedule look like? Not sure if I should just wait until he's done with teeth and reevaluate.
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Some people experience a regression at 18 months.
I think if you are late putting him down then you should cap the nap to perserve bedtime. As he'll likely need a longer A time to bed if he still naps the same length leading to shorter night or wanting to lie in. So if set nap is 12-2.30 and a day you only get him down at 1pm id wake about 2.45 and then normal bedtime.
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Ok I can try that to preserve consistency. Set times are generally the way to go at this age right?
Yesterday he fought bedtime for 30 minutes but then woke before the 3 hour mark which to me indicates OT. Last night wasn't too bad. He woke from pain but no craziness but was up at 7:30.
Yesterday:
WU 8 am
S 1:26- 2:52 pm
BT 8:38 pm (fought sleep for 30 minutes)
I been doing settish naps since the nanny will sometimes put him down too early. I reiterated to her that it needs to be consistent for nights to be consistent.
I have been doing this give or take:
WU 7:30 am
S 1-3 pm
BT 8:30 pm
But not sure if the shorter nap yesterday and bad night from before made him really OT for bedtime last night. Sigh well I guess today starts a new day; of course it's a holiday and we are visiting with family for the weekend so today won't be his perfect routine lol
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I'm getting early waking now where he doesn't want to go back to sleep ???. He's only doing 10-10.5 nights not including NW. Does he need an A push?
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You're doing 5.5 before and after nap?? And a 2 hour nap?
You'd mentioned teeth and holidays?? I'd maybe stick as you are but ensue consistency for a run of days including waking him in the morning and see does that help?
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Yesterday was 5.5 then 1.5 nap (since Thursday his nap hasn't been longer than this) then 5.5 to bed. Yesterday he was yawning and cranky before the 5 hour A mark but I put him down at 1 _•anyway and he did a 1.5 nap again. Should I stick to a 1 pm nap despite him waking at 6:20? I was thinking 12 pm but then it's not consistent but then it's such a long time to be awake. Ugh this is hard.
Canines are on the move. Yesterday he had one red swollen cheek poor bub. Not sure if maybe he's OT with all the teething and NW. I honestly can't tell lol
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I would stick to your 1pm nap to try keep him on track. The last time moving the nap earlier fed the EW.
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Ok update:
I ended up doing the following:
WU 6:20 am
S 12:30-2:45 pm (I tried to push him to 1 but he was a mess from around 11:30 and couldn't hold out anymore)
BT 8:27 pm (attempted for 8 but he fought sleep for around 30-40 minutes before finally going to sleep)
Not sure what this means. One top canine is cutting, one bottom canine is about to break through the gun, 3rd molar is almost fully out,and last molar is pretty much right under the gun except for one peak. All in all DS seems to be in serious pain. Not sure what to do.
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Poor wee man. How was his night?
I don't think changing things routine wise will help if his teeth are bothering him. I'd keep going and stick to your routine as much as possible.
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These teeth are kicking our butts! Whoa! Back to back teething!
Last night he was up several times crying but he did sleep until 8 so ok going to keep sticking to the routine as much as possible.
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Ok I'm starting to think the EMW might be routine related. He was up at5:30 this morning and didn't go back to sleep. He woke up playful and would try to close his eyes but couldn't like he was tired enough. I tried Apoping for around an hour and nothing. He only got around 8 hours of sleep!
Yesterday's routine:
WU 8 am
S 1:30-3:30 pm
BT 8:50 pm (cranky and crying throughout routine)
I don't get it. When I do this routine in the last week I get either long a NW (up to 2!hours) or an EMW then it's a vicious cycle of pushing him to get close to a 1-1:30 pm nap then he's OT but sleeps in to normal wake up time the next day then repeat.
Maybe UT? Or is it that he's OT and plays catch up every other day? I have been redosing so I'm starting to doubt its pain since it doesn't happen every night.
Not sure how many more long NW/EMW I can take.
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I got another super long 2 hour NW with 5.5, 2 hour nap, 5.5 bed.
Went to bed st 8:30 and woke:11:20; 1:15-3:15 am. He tried going back to sleep but was rolling. He was rolling around fussy but not full on crying. I nursed him bc nothing else was working. He also woke up drenched in sweat probably from teething.
Ahhhh does he need a routine tweak?
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I think your routine is super and it's likely teeth or the 18 month regression. He sounded UT in the night though??
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Lol I wish he can learn how to speak to tell me what it is lol
He seemed UT because it took soooo long to resettle and he was trying. Also he was completely fine during our bedtime routine no crying or crazy wired.
I definitely know teeth are contributing since he was sweating a lot and his two top canines have started cutting.
I guess I'm wondering if it's something else going on.
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Sounds like teeth are knocking him a bit.
How did today go?
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So it's been going better since I cut down his A a bit. So right now we been doing this for a couple of days:
WU 8 am
S 1-3
BT 8:30 pm
I also have been diligent about redosing. Still getting NW but no long ones.
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I got another long 2.5 hr NW :'(
2 days of much better sleep then this. We redosed and he still stayed up smh
We did the following:
WU 8 am
S 1:15-3:45 pm (5.25; put him down a tad late)
BT 9:15 pm (5.5; cranky)
NW 11:30; 1:30-(it's 3.45 am now and he's still up)
Could this really be teeth?! Wow this is the worst ever.
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I think maybe that nap was too long? And led to the day being very long. I think I would have him awake by 3pm and stick to your set bedtime.
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Hmmmm perhaps you're right. Maybe it was a little UT. So let's say he gets put down at 12:45 but sleeps until 3, 8:30 pm bedtime be ok?
I should know these answers but I clearly keep miscalculating a decent A time for his age 🤔
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I'd aim for your set nap at 1pm but if you feels he needs a reduction in A time then yes 12.45 but make sure he's up for 3pm. If you're late and he's not sleeping until 1.30 I'd still have him up for 3pm then normal bedtime.
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Ok sounds like a plan. With a later nap and waking him up would that make him OT for an 8:30 bedtime?
Set times are better at this age right?
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The aim is to be as set as you can so the odd late shorter nap shouldn't be a big deal. You could do bed 15 mins earlier but unless he tacks onto his nights you need to watch that.
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Ok that's something I can reinforce.
Hopefully once the teething subsides I will be able to get a better sense of where we are routine wise.
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Lol and then it'll be Christmas and it'll be crazy again 😝😝
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😂😂 exactly, it's like why bother?!
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Not sure if I should start another post but I was wondering how do you know if your LO is UT at bedtime? Can it cause lots of NW?
Still getting canines 🙄 But doing 5 A, nap, 5.5A, bed seems to lead to more NW and less night sleep (last night it was 9.75). When I think I miss bedtime or when his nap is crappy but I stick to bedtime he has better nights 🤔
Yesterday was a perfect routine day:
WU 8 am
S 1-3 pm
BT 8:30 pm
NW 10:30; 11:30; 2:30; 4am. Then from 6:30-8 am in and out of sleep 😪
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I did this last night and ended up with a 7hr stretch! I did get wakings from 4-8 though.
WU 8:15
S 1:15-3:15 pm
BT 9:05 pm
NW 4:20; 6:05; stirred at 7:30 up right before 8
Will this lead to disaster?
Do you think I should be aiming for 5A, nap, 5A, bed?
I was reading on other posts that teething can really exhaust so doing earlier BT can help 🤔
Clearly I'm lost lol
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I would not let that wake up start creeping forward. Honestly I would wake him by 8 😘 And stick to your 1pm nap and up by 3pm. Then bed 8/8.30.
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Ok so the NW even the long ones are OT and teeth?
Fit a 2 hour nap I should do 5.5 and anything less then I do 5A?
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I think you'd worked out he does best with 5 before and slightly longer after?
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I looked back on my notes and It would seem that yea those A times work but then when I'm off by 15 minutes for a nap and stick to the same A for bed, I run into issues.
I'll try being more consistent; it's hard bc sometimes my nanny puts him down slightly earlier or slightly later. Can he really be that sensitive to time?
I'm also wondering if limiting his nap to 2 hours would help?
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I don't think honestly 15 mins either way makes much difference so long as he's getting the A time he needs yk? But you guys got into a pickle before when he was NW letting him lie on so I just think it would happen again. But if you're out and doesn't get down to 1.15 and then goes to bed slightly later...personally that's what we've done as life never really lent to the the consistency a lot of people have. I don't think I'd necessarily cap the nap but I wouldn't let him sleep later than 3/3.30pm as it does push bedtime later as he does need a good A time after.
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That's good advice!
So what happens when your nanny puts him down a half hour early?
Do I still push for bedtime at 8?
He woke at 7:30 and napped from 12-2 pm 😪