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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Mum2lucy on June 25, 2016, 17:56:39 pm
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Hiya,
I'm starting a new thread here as my lg turned one yesterday (had topic in naps before this). I'm still struggling with the 2:1 transition. She has been on one nap for about a month. She rarely takes a catnap even if she has a bad nap. It's like she can count and knows when she has had one nap ;D
The last 3 days looked like:
Nw:5.36 (fed)
Wu: 8.04
E: 9.00
A
S 13.05 - 14.35 (woke crying but won't resettle)
E 17.00 dinner
Bt 18.50 (had to shhhh to sleep as kept crying)
Nw: 06.04 (fed)
Wu: 6.45
E: 7.45
A
S 11.22 - 12.45 (woke crying but won't resettle)
Bt 18.20 (tried for 6pm but took me 20mins to get her off, had to shhh)
Nw: 5.05 (quick moan but I didn't have to go in and back to sleep)
Wu: 6.55
E: 8.00
A
S 12.07 - 13.21 (woke crying and I left her for 20mins to see if she'd go back over, she didn't, I tried to get her back to sleep but couldn't
Bt 18.40 (into cot 18.20 but again was upset so I had to stay with her until she went off)
for her nap, she settles beautifully by herself but at bedtime she can't seem to self settle??
I have no consistency in Wu and bedtime. I working on a 5 hour 10mins am awake time (just upped it to 5hrs 10mins today to see if it would help extend the nap). Do you think I should go to set nap and bt? My lg shows no clear tired signs.
My main focus is to extend the nap and try to make bedtime less upsetting for her
Thanks xx
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Hi Hun,
It seems to me that maybe it would work better to look at her first WU as the start of her day (if you can stand that!?) It's really hard to get a consistent day without a set WU time, almost impossible IME. It's possible that if you give her an early start for a short time, and a set nap/BT that you can then shift the WU and get to a routine you want. IIWM even though she refuses 2 naps I would try at least to give her very low key wind down when you would ideally like her 1st nap to be. Would she lie in her cot quietly? This would give her the opportunity to nap but if not allow her to rest. If she gets upset when put down at that time maybe you could sit by the cot initially with no eye contact? Play gentle music or white noise ??? Does she have sleepy cues?
for her nap, she settles beautifully by herself but at bedtime she can't seem to self settle??
This could be OT by BT so could change with set routine.
What do you think? HTH. (HUGS)
x.
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That morning wake up is different every day too. I don't want to get up at that time but would do it if that's what is best for her. Today she woke at 5.40 and lay quietly until 6:20 so I just left her and started the day then.
she won't take two sleeps and has a long morning awake time to get to the first nap so the second Cn would be a pm one. She isn't the best at going in her cot unless it is the correct time for her to sleep (she won't do under tired nap in cot without a huge 40mins or so fight so I've just stopped doing it as its too stressful for both parties!)
She doesn't have any sleepy cues. For example she'll seem absolutely fine no tired signs etc and then I do the wind down routine for her nap and she'll start yawning and rubbing her eyes but doesn't show that unless it's in her routine?
Do you think I should set the nap time then irrelevant of when she wakes in the morning? I've been working on a 5 hour 10mins awake time. She normally only sleeps for 1.5 hours. If that was going on today's wake up, she'd be awake at 12.15 after her nap which is an awful long time to bedtime even if I made it 6pm! ???
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Hello Hun,
I think it's important that you as her Mum have faith in what YOU think she needs too. I know how blinkered you can get when you're in the thick of it, so from what you've said here's what you know:
She doesn't take kindly to being put in her cot unless she is ready.
She doesn't show sleepy signs until you wind her down.
She likes a long first nap and any second nap would be a cat nap.
Going with the above here is what I would suggest:
Wake her up at 5 am (I know! it's harsh but it's short term)
Give her a good long low key wind down from around 4 hrs 15 mins so 9.15 am to try and achieve her nap by 9.45/10.00
Put her in her cot once wound down and sit with her maybe one hand on shushing (if this is necessary? Sorry I know you said she SS alone for her nap but don't know if that is in her cot or not?)
Leave her to sleep until she wakes, hopefully at least 11.15/11.30 (cap at 2 hrs if she happens to sleep longer than usual though)
Try for a cat nap in the cot around 3.00 pm (winding down at least half an hour before as per morning) again staying with her if necessary using only a sleepy phrase and no eye contact. Keep her there for around 20 to 30 mins then abandon if it's a no go.
If cat nap is a wash out try and keep the A time to BT low key.
BT 6.00 pm. Same as earlier in the day, long WD then staying with her with a view to using gradual withdrawal for all sleeps once into her routine.
I think there is an element of ST needed Hun. She sounds to me like she needs routine to set her body clock, especially if she has no sleepy cues.
I would stick with this for several days (at least a week) if you possible can and see where you're at. If it works hopefully she will get over the OT and she will shift the routine herself and start to consistently wake later. In an ideal world eh ;) Ultimately you might look at shortening the first nap and pushing it out later, and the cat nap being around 20 mins until she is older and can pull one long nap.
At least with the early morning and full commitment you should get plenty of you time in the evening.
Let me know what you think.x.
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Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I appreciate your thoughts but I don't think that's the way forward for her. I've been on one nap for a month now and I feel like messing with that is going backwards rather than forwards and might be confusing for her. Trying for a catnap 3.5hours after a long am nap wouldn't work either as she won't entertain it until at least 4.5hours (I've tried loads).
I've also discovered over time that she doesn't like a long wind down. She likes it quick and then to sleep. For the am nap, she has a short wind down and is asleep within 10mins as I know I've got roughly the correct awake time. She sleeps in her cot for this and ss.
The last three nights she hasn't woken at the 5.30am mark and it has been half 6/6.45 wake up which is much better. she had a short pm Cn one day also as I managed to get her asleep in the car. The short pm Cn when I put her to bed meant she ss well so the other nights when she hasn't must be due to being more tired.
What do you think about a set nap time of about 11.30/11.45 and set bedtime but still having a slightly inconsistent wake up? Would that work? Xx
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It could work...that is actually sort of what we did once we were on one nap - on my non-work days I let them sleep in as they liked. Gave them a spot to tack on if they needed. One question though...do you think that having a feed at that ew is perpetuating it? ie she expects it at around that time and wakes for it?
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Yes I imagine there might be an element of that. She hasn't had it for the last 4 nights as she's slept through it. Well she has stirred at that time but has continued to sleep through it. The 5.30am wake up if def when she's OT.
If I go to set nap and bt, if you have a rubbish nap, do you still do sebt or do you stick to usual bt and push through to it to regulate their body clock?
I'm back to work in a month so I think I'd be doing what you said about catching up on my non work days.
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Hi Hun, I bow down to your knowledge of your Daughter and what you have tried before ;)
It sounds like things are improving already, so yes IIWM I would set nap time. Personally I used to set WU also, because with DS the consistency gave us a better nap length, and whenever I tried to allow CU time in the morning or brought BT early it worked for that day but upset the following days, so ultimately I found set times to work best for all sleeps (BT too after a rubbish nap) However, I too had a lot of trial and error to come to this conclusion. The only thing I would say is that whatever I tried I always gave it a good week at least to come to a conclusion before switching it up. Consistency is key.
Good luck going forward Hun. Oh and I agree WRT to feed.
x.
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I have actually never done ebt much less sebt unless my kids are ill...they just would never settle until their actual bedtime so we just dealt with the crankiness if the nap was crappy and pushed through. So really depends what your lo will do, lots are fine with a sebt to make up for bad naps.
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Eeek Heidi! that must have been rough on you! :o I was in a different predicament. DS would go down for SEBT and sleep on and on, but the next day was a right palava! lol.
These days at 6 YO I have to drag him out of bed for school. I don't however have to drag him out of bed on the weekends ;) ::)
I would never have believed there would be dragging of any kind until teenage years when I was going through those 4 am starts to the day lol.x.
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Hiya,
Do you think trying for a Cn on poor nap days is counterproductive when I'm trying to get her body adjusted to only having one sleep?
Thanks!
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Do you think trying for a Cn on poor nap days is counterproductive when I'm trying to get her body adjusted to only having one sleep?
Once again it's trial and error, and depends on how she reacts to a cat nap and if it's counter productive or not. I also know now it depends on what type of parent you are, because many people prefer to dig heels in and ride it out until LO settles into the routine, because all the faffing about drives them insane. Others prefer to take chance on a happier little one and let the next day take care of itself lol. Go with your gut ;) x.
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Hi all,
My lg was sick there for a week and I know it sounds daft but her sleep was great. She was showing tired signs and I went with them and she slept well with a Cn before bed. She self settled every night and slept 12-13 hours at night.
Now she is better and sleep is a mess. I am getting 1hour - 1 hour 15mins sleeps. When I put her down for her nap, she gives hardly any fuss and is asleep within 5 mins. she won't take a cat nap no matter how much walking/car I do. She's OT at bed and won't self settle. I've been trying a 6.30 bedtime but she's still ot. . I'm in a mess again basically and don't know where to go from here?
She did one big nap when she was sick on a 4.5 hour A time but I don't know if I can really use that as an example as she was sick.
The suggestion before was to go to set naps. She is starting nursery soon who do a nap at 12. Maybe I should start set nap at 12?
The past few:
Wu: 7.08
S: 11.38 - 14.52 (I woke her. She had illness at this time)
Bt: 19.07
Wu: 06.45
S: 12.03-13.09
Bt: 19.20 (was in bed from 18.30 and OT cried until then with us shhh)
Nw: 20.40 (short cry, went in and she settled quickly)
Wu: 06.30
S: 11.27 - 12.43
Bt: 18.45 (was in bed from 18.20 and OT cried until then with us shhhh)
Any ideas? Words of wisdom? I feel like I've been stuck in this no routine/ 2:1 transition forever
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following as in similar position. sorry no advice!
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Hi again!
Looks like 5hrs A time is giving you an UT nap.
I'd try for set nap as the transition has been dragging on for you..but wonder if 12 is too early if you want a 7ish wake up. Your DD has done higher than average first A time when younger, so maybe try for a set nap at 12.30 & if that doesn't give you a long-ish nap and good night after trying for a couple of weeks, try it later
My DS was older (18mo) when he completed 2-1 but his single nap was 1pm-3/3.30pm (wu around 6) with a shorter A time to bed (7/7.30pm)
ETA- just thought - how many days will she be in nursery and what time will she need to be up in morning to get there? If she's going to be there a good chunk of the week it makes sense to align her nap with the nursery time. A set nap at 12 might work with an earlier than 7 wu. You might also find she is more tired from nursery and sleeps longer when she starts anyway. Nursery has always exhausted my DS.
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Thanks for your reply. It was helpful to confirm my thoughts.
Two days ago I decided to go with the flow and see if I could just keep her up until she seemed tired (easier said than done as she hides the tiredness) but I did so and at 5hrs 35mins she did the tiniest of yawns (blink and I would have missed it!) anyway I took that as a sign as she doesn't even normally do that. I put her down and she was eyes closed at 5hrs 45mins and slept 1hr 40 mins.
I did the same again today going with the flow to see where it got us. She didn't do any signs that I saw and didn't want it to get too OT so she was down and asleep at 6hrs A today and slept for 1.5hours. Improvement!
She's going to nursery for 3 full days. Their nap is at 12 and I think she'll be up at 6.30am on those days. I think I'll see how she does on at 12pm at nursery because as you said, they get more tired. It might be half 12 set nap at home though if that would even work.
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Yesterday was:
Wu: 6.30
S: 12.30 - 14.00
Bt: 18.50 (in cot 6.45 and self settled)
If I do a set nap and she wakes up early like today at 5.15, what do I do? It would be a long time to get to 12/12.30!
Gutted about the 5.15 wake up.... Had thought I might actually be getting somewhere. Might have come from the 6hr morning am making her OT. I see that lots of posts say Emw is because of not long enough morning A time but as I've just pushed this to 5.75-6 hours, surely it's not that? x
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If you're "set" on set naps, you really have to stick with it for at least a week, ideally 2, regardless of Wu time, with only +/- 15 mins for naps and 30 mins for BT.
For us, EW happens if nap is too early in the day; if she's slept too much, too late in the day; if BT is too early...but none of those seem to fit for you. Another mod told me that waking 9-10 hrs after BT can be OT, especially if upset on waking.
She's had a big A time jump in quite a short space of time. I think it sounds like 5hr45-6hrs gives you a better nap (the 1hr15 nap at 5hrs A time definitely looks UT to me) but she probably needs time to get used to it.
I think it would be good to decide whether you want to go with 5.45/6hr first A time or set naps and stick with it for at least a week & see how she goes. There is bound to be some OT whichever you do as she gets used to it.
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Hiya,
I've tried a week of being consistent and it isn't working really. I'm getting 5am wake ups which I can't resettle.
The last week has been:
Wu: 6.30
S: 12.30-14.00
Bt: 18.50 (in bed 6.45, self settle)
Wu: 5.15 or 5.25 (hard to tell)
S: 9.53-10.05 (was during a time and fell asleep in the car)
S: 12.15-14.10 (woke at 40mins, fell back asleep on me)
Bt: 19.00 (self settle)
Wu: 6.05
S: 12.30 - 14.30 (woke at one hour, fed back to sleep as very upset)
Bt: 19.00 (bed 18.35, kept standing up so wouldn't self settle)
Nw: 20.05
Wu: 05.15 (tried for 1hr 20mins to resettle but wouldn't)
S: 10.50 - 12.20
E: 12.30
A:
S: 16.25-16.45
Bt: 19.15 (in bed 19.13 self settled)
Wu: 5.00
S: 6.00 (managed to get her back to sleep by shoogle)
Wu: 7.40
S: 12.20 - 14.30
Bt 19.00 (self settled)
Nw: 4.24 (managed to settle quickly in 15mins of shhh)
Wu: 07.40
S: 13.50-14.20 (30mins wouldn't go back to sleep)
S: 16.40-17.00 (20mins to try to keep her going to get dinner etc)
Bt: 20.05(tried from 7pm as to not extend the day wouldn't settle, had to rock to drowsy then into cot)
Wu: 6.05
S: 14.05 - 15.30 (was travelling to holiday and wouldn't sleep on the go)
Bt: 19.40 (in bed 7pm and wouldn't settle, upset)
Nw: 20.35 (settled ok with shhh)
Wu: 5.55
S: 10.48- 13.20
Bt: 19.04 (in bed 19.00 self settled)
Today:
Wu: 5.00 (wouldn't resettle)
It seems with her shorter 10hour night she is back to 4hr 40mins (ish) awake time.
She used to do 11-11.5houra at night.
Just generally OT do you think? x
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Thanks for posting that...looks like a mix of OT on the days she's had short naps or earlier naps and a very long last A time and UT on the day she took a 2hr nap then wasn't ready for bed at 7 or when she slept in mid/late afternoon so not enough A time to bed!
Are you aiming for a consistent first A time or for a set nap time..or following her tired cues?
Looking at this, I wonder whether it would help to keep trying to aim to have main nap around 12.30- that seems to give you a good nap (1.5-2hrs) and an easier settle at BT. On days you get EW (before 6) could you try to AP a 15min CN after the 4hr40 A time to get you to the after lunch nap? I know short am/long pm didn't work for her as a consistent approach but I seem to remember it helped to catch her up on sleep? And might help to get a consistent main nap & A time to BT at least?
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Hiya,
Thanks for replying.
I had been going for a nap based on a times. I just don't see a set nap working when she has such early wake ups unless I made it relevant to her 5am wake up time as she'd never make it to 12ish with a 5am wake up.she has however a few days given me slight tired signs and I've gone with them and those are the days that she has had 2hour sleeps.
I feel like I'm getting myself into bad habit territory with having to rock her at night to get her to sleep. I had to do it again tonight as she was getting in such a state. I had worked hard to get her to self settle and I feel like it's all going out the window. I'm on holiday again just now so that doesn't help.
Today was
Wu 5.00
S: 10.04-11.30 (woken by another screaming baby in the house :) )
E: 12.00
S: 14.10-14.50 (fell asleep in car journey)
Bt: bed 18.45, sleep 19.50. Wouldn't settle. Hour of tears and standing had to rock to drowsy)
I had tried to get her to bed for 7pm as I thought the a to bed would be OK and keeps bt consistent but she was very upset.
I'll try a short catnap in the morning and down at 12.30 and see what happens.
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Naps and routines are always tricky on holiday. She can SS though so hopefully when routine settles so will her bedtimes. Looking at your days, I think the bedtime issues might be UT/OT I.e. UT from a mid-late afternoon sleep but then gets OT when she can't get to sleep.
I would just try the v short am CN if you get wu before 6.
If you get wu 6 or later try for the after lunch nap-12.30ish
Kind of a 2 option set nap!
ETA- there's a little bit of me that wonders whether she would eventually need a 1pm nap to get a wu later than 6, as she's done a long first A from quite a young age...but I think I would try to focus on getting a more consistent 6am-7pm day first (which I'm hoping will come if we get the consistent middle of the day long nap) then can try pushing to 6.30-7.30 if you want to.
FWIW - I got in a mess with 2-1 with my DS and using the 15min am CN & set naps helped catch us up and sort it out for us in the end
Xxx
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Today we had
Nw: 5.00 (getting her back to sleep isn't easy so today fed her after short time trying to settle her and she was back asleep within 15mins?)
Wu: 7.45
S: 12.50 - 14.30
Bt 19.00, sleep 19.36 (crying and standing whole time before sleep had to be shhhh)
Nw so far: 22.25
Tonight I was hoping for an easier bedtime as it was a longer time to bedtime but didn't seem to help for now. Will see how we go! x
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Hmm, do you think the EWs are hunger or do you think she just finds the feed soothing?
Do you think she might need 5hrs A time to BT (after a long nap)? I saw you've had a day before when the nap finished at 14.30 and she resisted BT until 19.30.
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I've no idea re the feed as when she was doing the 11/ 11.5 nights, she never had a feed so I reckon it's just comforting. I'm trying not to wake up the whole holiday household at 5am so it helped.
Yes I reckon she might need the full 5A before bed even if it is a 1.5hour nap.
If she wakes at 6am, and I'm aiming for a half 12 nap, do I just plough on through if she is getting annoyed/tired? Right now she isn't doing that long an A as she isn't sleeping as long at night or as well with the occasional night waking.
Yesterday was
Nw: 04.55 (fed and back to sleep)
Wu: 6.25
S: 11.30 - 13.00
E: 13.05
A:
S: 16.25-16.45 (fell asleep in car on way home)
E: 17.00
Bt: 19.45 sleep 20.00 (kept her up later due to late Cn)
She woke at 6.05 this morning. Later because I put her to bed later but still that 10hour sleep limit
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It makes a long day & a short night, doesn't it?
I hesitate to suggestions because I know we tried short am/long pm before and it wasn't right for her, but when I got in a mess with my DS' 2-1 I started the follow set nap routine:
Wu:6
Nap: 9.35-45/50 (in cot at 9.30)
Nap: 1pm until he woke (usually around 3 but anything between 2.30-3.30)
BT: 7pm
The 10min CN was just enough to reset him, avoid OT and keep him going until a 1pm nap.
Would it be worth trying something like that again? Even just to reset her until you get an after lunch nap again, a longer straight A time to bed then hopefully a longer night/later Wu? I imagine for you, the day would eventually be
Wu:6.30
Nap 1-2.30/3
BT: 7.30
But it's just trying to get her caught up enough in sleep to get there.
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I'll try it when I'm home from holiday on Sunday.
However she starts nursery three days a week the following week so I don't think they'll be able to do that? The nursery nap is at 12 but they can be flexible with that timing.
Today we had:
Wu:6.05 (slept through from 8pm)
S: 11.30 - 13.00, woke crying went in and shhh, fell asleep again for 10mins. Up finally at 13.13
Bt: 18.45 sleep 19.05 (screaming and standing in cot and had to give dummy and shhhh)
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My DS always did different naps at nursery to at home. I just tried to keep home consistent and it seemed to even out (although he often needed earlier BT after nursery days or slept in/longer nap at wkends to catch up from nursery sleeps)
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Hi,
I'm looking for some advice on what to do with the 5/5.30am wake up. I think a lot of the sleep problems just now are from the 2:1 but also as she has learned to stand in her cot and is doing it loads. When she wakes, she instantly stands up. I've read stuff about not being able to sit back down so I've been practising it. She can do it in the cot but it seems she doesn't want to sit down lol.
Yesterday was:
Wu: 5.25
S: 11.10 - 13.11 (woke at 1hr, managed to resettle her after about 10mins but unfortunately lying on me with dummy)
Bt: 18.30, sleep 18.56 (kept standing up and crying, had to put heavy hand on her to get her to stay down and shhhh her to sleep)
Wu: 5.10
So at 5.10 this morning she was standing and screaming. I go in to check she's ok (no dirty nappy, cold etc) but she always seems fine. If I leave she starts screaming again. Today I laid beside her cot and every time she got up I laid her back down saying sleepy time. Did this for 1.5hours. She did begin to stop getting up every time but no sign of sleep. I got her up at 6.30am and gave morning feed where she fell asleep again. I left her on me and she slept 6.40-7.37. I'm wondering if this is a good or bad thing the extra sleep ie.
Is it still night sleep or is that her having a super early first nap?!
Yesterday morning I went in every ten mins and laid her back down but she just cried and didn't settle. I got her up at 6.30am (I won't let her up to start the day before this)
She is cutting molars (two top are through, two bottom are not through yet) so I don't know if this is making it worse. She doesn't seem to be in too much pain at that time of the morning?
I also wonder if she is getting too OT in general now. Maybe I should go for a set routine based on the 5am wake up and see if I can stabilise her sleep? Maybe similar to yesterday but into bed at 6pm with the hope of getting her sleep for 6.30pm?
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I could have written that post. including the same nap times, BT etc and also the early wake up. I have no advice for you though, for us it has been going on for weeks now. wake ups getting earlier and earlier. I tried a few times BT at 6pm and even before, while she settled instantly she had loads of NW#s on those nights so I decided that super early BT doesn't work for us. it seems she needs a long day, around 13 hrs maybe but not as long as 14 hrs which she is getting currently with a 5am and 7pm BT bedtime. but I can't fix it. soIm following you to see if something does the trick. BTW it can get worse, last night she was up for 5 hours, I have no idea why. and sometimes she is up for the day at 4am after an 9 hr night. ??? ??? ???
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Poor you! These babies are sent to test us aren't they? :D good job we love them ;D
I was in quite a good place a few weeks ago with one nap and a wake up of about 6/half 6 with lg doing an 11-11.5 hour night but somehow I've lost it and now she's only doing 10-10.5 hours at night.
I fear mine may get worse as she is about to start nursery next week. I also feel like you in that nothing seems to be working. I read one of the help 2:1 posts this morning again and it says if you are in a real mess, to go to set naps and give it a week or two to stabilise? have you tried set naps?
Hopefully someone on here can give us further advice :)
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We got into a bit of a 2-1 mess at that age so just as a thought here's what we did that eventually helped! (Though to be honest it was probably time more than anything....)
WU was whenever, if he woke before 6 I went in and lay on his floor which would keep him quiet, then got up for the day at 6am (no earlier). Allowed a tiny catnap of 15-20 mins max around 9/9.30ish if he was tired - basically I timed a car trip for that time and he had the chance to doze if he needed to. And then put down every single day for a set nap at 11.30/45 - the earlier time if no catnap or clearly exhausted. We moved BT early for a while but then realised than in fact DS wasn't a 12h night man at all, and aiming for such actually made things worse. We took advantage of DST one day to push BT out to 7pm which generally got us a 6am WU, sometimes a bit later. And it did eventually settle :)
It's a yucky time but just hang in there, it does come right eventually. Honestly I do think they get to a point where *nothing* is right you know? We can drive ourselves mad trying to fix it! For me, set naps were great because even if we got NWs/EWs I had some predictability in the day and that for me made a rough period more manageable xx
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Thanks for the reply.
If I do a small Cn in the morning of 10/15mins and a set nap of one pm and she has a OT nap of say 30mins and I can't get her back to sleep, what do I do with bedtime? Keep it at 7pm or bring it forward?
Today she was up at 6.20 (only later due to 3 nw imagine) and she's been for a settle at nursery and has fallen asleep on me (?!?!) at 11.20. I'm giving her 10mins and then will aim for 1pm sleep.
Edited to say: well I tried to wake her after 10mins and couldn't, she kept waking and falling asleep again so I decided to put her in her cot and she only slept 50mins and I couldn't resettle. When doing set naps do you just push through this level of tiredness until your desired time?
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Ugh, that's a tough one. I'd bring BT earlier I think, that's a tiny amount of daytime sleep and I think pushing for a late bedtime would just add to the OT build up.
I wonder perhaps if you may need to consider an earlier set nap though? 1pm is rather late in the day for a LO just starting out on the 2-1, often 11.30-12 is where many people aim to begin with. I mean, if my LO had passed out at 11.20 I'd have just let them sleep, that's pretty much a reasonable nap time for one nap in the early stages. Yes, with a set nap you push through the tiredness - but you do have to set your nap at a reasonable time.
Just to illustrate that - for example you could have a 'desired' routine of one nap at 12pm for a 6 month old - but that just isn't reasonable so however much you push through the tiredness it wouldn't work. IMHO 1pm is too late for an early-waking tired LO in transition and I think you might do better with an earlier one. If you do need a 1pm nap I would go back to a 2 nap routine for now, allowing 30-45 mins at around 9.30am (experiment to see what works here) and then put down for the main nap around 1pm x
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I've taken your advice and I did my nap at 12 and she was a bit upset but asleep by 12.10.
Today was:
Wu: 5.55 (stayed in room until 6.30am of ideal wu time. Went in at 5.55 checked she was ok then left. Got upset at 6.15 so then laid on her floor until 6.40)
E: bf 6.30 breakfast 7.30
A
S 9.47-9.57 (car ride to baby class)
A 10-11
E: 11
A:
S: 12.10 - 14.33 (was in cot at 11.50, left for ten mins but wouldn't settle so had to shhhh)
Bt: 19.00 sleep 19.15 (left for 10mins but was standing crying getting upset so went in and shhh)
The problem I have and I think I'd have it even if the routine was right is that my lg has learned to stand so the second she goes into her cot even if she's tired she is standing immediately. Tonight for example she was sleepy when I was bf-ing her as part of her routine so I know she is tired. I can't seem to get her to sleep without holding her pelvis down and shhhh-ing her.
I've left her to cry a little bit to see if she settles but she just gets hysterical. She can sit down as she can do it when I ask her to:
Any ideas?
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If it's developmental then you just have to ride it out really, sorry that's not much help. I did find with both of mine we had much more trouble with standing/crawling/rolling/whatever at sleep times when they were UT or OT though. I wouldn't help too much if she knows how to do it herself - as in I personally wouldn't hold her down. I would either tell her to sit/lie down and get her to do it, or physically lie her down from standing (so just PD rather than PUPD) if she is upset.
That's a good day you had though :) How was the night?
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So it went:
Wu: 5.55 (stayed in room until 6.30am of ideal wu time. Went in at 5.55 checked she was ok then left. Got upset at 6.15 so then laid on her floor until 6.40)
E: bf 6.30 breakfast 7.30
A
S 9.47-9.57 (car ride to baby class)
A 10-11
E: 11
A:
S: 12.10 - 14.33 (was in cot at 11.50, left for ten mins but wouldn't settle so had to shhhh)
Bt: 19.00 sleep 19.15 (left for 10mins but was standing crying getting upset so went in and shhh)
Nw: 22.15 (up standing and laid back down, in 10mins til she calmed down)
Nw: 00.15 (up standing and laid back down, given dummy and left)
Wu: 7am!!!!!!! I couldn't believe it when I woke and it said 7am haha
Much improved wake up and about 14.5 hours sleep over the day.
Day two of set nap wasn't great though. I don't know if 12pm is late enough when she wakes later but I carried on with it.
Wu: 7
S: 12.18 - 13.53
Bt: 7pm, sleep 7.25 (she kept standing and crying, wasn't that easy to get her to sleep, had to shhhh her)
Reckon she was maybe ot by then? I maybe need to put her into bed earlier so that if I have to work to get her to sleep, least then it wouldn't be so late. Danger is that she doesn't like being put into bed when she isn't ready for it. It's hard to find that sweet spot! :( I'm expecting an early wake up......
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I'd think a bit OT perhaps, but tomorrow is a new day. Some back and forth is normal :) I wouldn't go changing your set nap around just yet, you really need a good week or two to bed it in before making any sort of adjustment to it. I doubt she was UT to be honest, 5h A is a perfectly good A time for the morning for an LO in transition and I would say for quite some time after. More likely she was still a bit OT, but stick with it :)
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Hi again
I'm struggling with bedtime.
On a routine of
Wu: 6.30/7
S: 12.00/12.15 - 1.30/2
What would you suggest as a bedtime?
Currently I am aiming for her to be asleep for 7. She is going crazy at bedtime. It's screaming/yelling etc, not a mantra cry so I can't leave it. The second I leave she goes crazy but I know she is tired as she gets sleepy on her last bf at the beginning of her wind down routine. Last night it took me over an hour to get her settled. I've been doing walk in walk out but she doesn't ever really stop crying for me to leave ???
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Maybe try bringing it back half an hour and see if she goes down easier? Say 6.30?
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Hiya,
So I went to a set nap of around 12pm (-/+ 15mins) and this was what my week looked like:
Wu: 5.55 (stayed in room until 6.30am of ideal wu time. Went in at 5.55 checked she was ok then left. Got upset at 6.15 so then laid on her floor until 6.40)
E: bf 6.30 breakfast 7.30
A
S 9.47-9.57 (car ride to baby class)
A 10-11
E: 11
A:
S: 12.10 - 14.33 (was in cot at 11.50, left for ten mins but wouldn't settle so had to shhhh)
Bt: 19.00 sleep 19.15 (left for 10mins but was standing crying getting upset so went in and shhh)
Nw: 22.15 (up standing and laid back down, in 10mins til she calmed down)
Nw: 00.15 (up standing and laid back down, given dummy and left)
Day two
Wu: 7
S: 12.18 - 13.53
Bt: 7pm, sleep 7.25 (she kept standing and crying, wasn't that easy to get her to sleep, had to shhhh her)
Nw: 12.04
Wu: 6.45
S: 12.10- 13.36
S: 16.15-16.25 (fell asleep on car joinery home)
Bt 6.40, sleep 7.35 (wouldn't settle, had to put down for the whole time)
Wu: 6.25
S: 12.05 - 13.50 (woke at 45mins, given dummy to resettle)
Bt: 6.55, sleep 7.15 (was upset, had to shhhhh)
Wu: 05.53
S: 09.52 - 10.04
S: 12.15 - 13.45 (went into cot at 11.50 and wouldn't settle without me shhh)
Bt: 6.40, sleep 6.55
Then she started nursery and it's gone horribly wrong:
Wu: 7.05
S: 12.45 - 13.35
Bt: 6.25 (straight to sleep with dummy)
Wu: 5.45
S: 12.00 - 12.40
Bt: 6.20 sleep 7pm (was screaming as she was so OT)
Wu: 6.45
S: 10.30 - 11.25
S: 17.30 - 17.50
Bt: 19.15, sleep 19.30 (went down fine)
Wu: 6.07
S: 12.25-13.10
Bt: 6.25pm
I know it's hard to say as she's just started nursery but the sleep is terrible there. She's got a cold too. The 10.30am sleep is so unlike her though but they said she was tired. They said they tried second naps but she wouldn't do it. I've asked them to try to stick to the set nap of 12ish.
I guess I just carry on trying 12ish when she isn't at nursery? She'll be so tired from the lost sleep though?
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Today she did:
Wu: 6.25 (after a 12hr sleep)
S: 11.30 - 12.45 (woke crying but couldn't resettle)
Bt: 6.30
Nw: 19.25 (settled easily again)
She seemed knackered (rubbing eyes, upset) and has a bad cold so I didn't stick to the 12pm set nap. I can't ever seem to resettle a nap when she wakes from a nap after 40+ mins. So frustrating
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Does anyone have any thoughts on the set nap at 12ish?
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In case it helps - with the 2-1 we did a set nap (ours was a touch earlier, but on a typical 6.30 start to the day rather than 7) but if DS was tired/struggling I timed a car ride for around 9/9.30am and let him have 15 mins if he dozed off. I still stuck to the set time +/- 15 mins though fpr the main nap and found that helped until he could consistently make it to nap time x
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Can anyone have a look over these easys please and see if anything sticks out as to why I am getting 5am wake ups?
Wu 6.39
S 11.54 - 13.28
Bt: 18.30
Wu: 6.04
S: 9.45-10.05
S: 12.00-13.30
Bt: 18.30
Wu: 7pm on and off until 7.50pm
Wu: 6.10
S 11.50-14.20
Bt: 7pm, sleep 7.10
Nw: 20.35-20.55 screaming
Nw: 5.22 (went into check her, then left)
Wu: 6.00 (nursery day so sleep always a bit funny)
S: 10.00 - 10.15
S: 12.55- 14.00
Bt 7pm, sleep 7.10
Nw: 5.20 (she woke crying then laid awake quietly for ages didn't go in)
Wu: 7.02 (nursery day)
S: 10-10.30
S: 12.40 - 1.05
Bt: 18.25, sleep 18.30
Wu: 7.10 (nursery day)
S: 12.10- 13.20
Bt: 18.35
Nw: 20.40 (cried for 1.5 hours)
Nw: 5.13 (in to check, medicine given)
Wu: 8.30
S: 13.55- 15.20 ( I know this is off the set nap but there is no way she'd have slept at 12)
Bt: 7, 7.35 sleep (was quiet in her cot until sleep)
Wu: 6.04
S: 9.45-10
S: 12.15- 14.45
Bt: 7, quiet then cried, didn't settle until 7.40
Nw: 04.47 (as I write to you now :) )
She has been teething and has the cold but everything is still quite all over the place. She is medicated as much as possible though. If she wakes at 5am ish, she has been having medication for her teeth then as well.
I've asked nursery to try to be more consistent with a 12pm nap.
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So again I'm getting short nights
Wu: 6.25
S: 12.00-14.20
Bt: 7.15 asleep 7.35
Nw: 5.50
I thought it was good her nap was getting longer but it seems it making her night even shorter!
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Hi!
Kind of following as my DD is going through the 2-1 as well now and also giving us 5am NWs!
But looking at your days...I wonder if the morning naps are contributing...so good to ask nursery to be more consistent...and at home, I think I might try only doing the 15min morning CN if wu is before 6. Around 6am wu, I would try to get to the set nap..even if it needs moved up to 15mins earlier if she's getting really tired.
Looking at yesterday do you think the 10.5hr night (which can be in normal range) was because she's done a longer day time nap..so she still had 13hrs total sleep? I wouldn't start capping the nap though though as it's probably a one off catch up but that might be why she did a shorter night?
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2 days before was
Wu: 6.04
S: 12.13- 14.45
Bt: 19.10 wouldn't settle until 7.40
Nw: 4.47 (went in a few times and it took her ages to go back to sleep think she went off at about 6am)
Wu: 8am (I woke her as we were going out)
It was another short night 7.40-4.47 >:(
oh you are in the throes of 2:1 now... Good luck! Hope the 5am starts stop soon. Going to the set nap had been helping us for a little while to get an after 6am wake up. xx
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Thanks!
Do you think the 2.5hr nap is giving you the shorter nights/EW? If it continues maybe you could try capping the nap at 2hrs and doing BT 5hrs A time after she's up/set BT 7pm if doing a 12-2pm nap?
Or do you think she needs the longer nap as catch up from nursery days?
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I think it might be giving me it but it's too early to tell. Tbh I'm usually of the thought that I'll take any sleep she does so that she is catching up after nursery as you say. Yesterday she did two hours at nursery and I thought brilliant is this her settling but today it was only an hour.
Also as you said before, in not sure if 12.00pm is late enough for her sometimes if she does sleep later. I do think in time she'll be a 1pm napper.
On her nursery days I've been trying to put her down to sleep for half 6 as she is only having about an hour at nursery so it's not really a set bedtime. Do you think this half 6 is a good idea or push to seven?
Today was a nursery day:
Bt 7.15
Wu: 6.45
S: 12.30-1.30
Bt: 18.30, sleep 18.54 (upset and had to shhh)
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Set BT can be up to 30 mins early, so if you think she needs the catch up sleep, I'd do it. My DS was always exhausted after nursery days and ready for an earlier BT.
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On a day like this what do you think?
Wu: 6.20
S: 12.13- 14.28
Bt: 7.30, sleep 7.45
I'm a bit worried it's a long day and late bedtime but she doesn't seem tired (as usual!) to go to bed earlier? xx
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Looks like a good day to me - a 13hr day (ish) with a 2hr nap is ok. Hope you she does a good night for you.
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I'm going on holiday this week and her naps have gone weird - such bad timing! She's waking early in the morning too. It's been three days of this:
Wu: 6.20
S: 9.50-10 (we have a baby class and she fell asleep on way there)
S: 12.43 - 14.17
Bt: 7.05, sleep 7.15
Wu: 5.40, quiet until 6.02 not sure if sleeping
S: 12.27- 14.10 (put down at 11.50 but wouldn't settle at all, not crying initially but then crying about 12.20 and had to go in and shhhh wouldn't settle ended up feeding to sleep)
Bt: 7.02, sleep 7.13
Wu: 5.40, again quiet until 6.05
S: 9.40-9.50 (fell asleep on an errand)
S: 12.32 (put down at 12pm and as above yesterday wouldn't settle extra)
I know it's only a few days but it's just as I'm going on holiday and don't want it to get worse. I guess she might be overtired as she is waking up earlier in the morning or could she be under tired at 12 from the tiny Cn? I know the Cn isn't ideal but sometimes I need to go out in the morning and it just happens. I've given up that baby class though for this reason.
Any thoughts? Thanks so much as always! I don't want to be feeding to sleep... I'm stopping bf-img very soon! and I haven't fed to sleep in months!! :o :(
S:
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I'd say some lingering OT from being in the 2-1 transition, hence the early catnaps and difficulty settling. But given you are about to go away I think it may be a case of riding it out, doing your best for now and just hanging in there till you get back and can see how things pan out x
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I'm going to a family home on holiday so I'll be able to stick to her routine. She's been doing so well. Not sure why I'm getting this resistance all of a sudden X
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Any chance teeth on the move? Our 2-1 took a step back with DS when he got his canines - extra tiredness and more crying at sleep times :(
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Yes she has her 4 molars in so canines are next.
She's woken up at 5.40am again. 4 days in a row exactly at that time.
I don't know what to do with the naps as it was a set nap of 12 but she is struggling to make it to then as its an early wake up.
She goes to nursery tues wed thurs as well so she doesn't sleep as well there either! x
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Today she woke at 5.40 again.
Her set nap is 12 so I asked nursery to have her down by 11.30 (knowing that it might be late or she'd take a little to fall asleep)
The nursery said they did this but she wouldn't sleep. She rolled around her cot/stood up etc for ages and eventually fell asleep at 1.40pm and slept for 35mins. Disaster day!
Wu: 5.40
S: 13.40-2.15 (nursery tried from 11.30)
Bt: 18.20 (just put her down now)
I have no idea what has happened as everything was going well for a week or two.
>:(
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Is there anything developmental going on for her?
I ask as my DD is also going through 2-1 & went from alternating 1 & 2 nap days to suddenly waking at 5.30-45 every morning and then needing a tiny CN around 9.45 to get to her after lunch nap. Then yesterday she started cruising & doing new things with her toys and slept until 6.30. I am starting to wonder whether developmental leaps cause EW.
I hope she had an ok night after her OT nap day.
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She slept 6.20pm - 6.40am which was fab!
Today was
Wu: 6.40
S: 12.30 - 13.10 (nursery sleep and they aimed for 12.15 to stick with set nap)
I wouldn't say anything developmental is going on unless she is going to walk soon. She is in leap 9 if you follow the wonder weeks?
Do you recommend just continuing with the set nap of 12 even though it doesn't seem to be working right now? Xx
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We did at this stage with DS, but would allow a 15-20 minute catnap in the morning around 9.30am if he was super tired, then still put down at 12 as usual. You could give that a go?