BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Tabathagucci on July 04, 2016, 15:37:58 pm
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My daughter will be 5 months on 7/11. She's a short napper but has always done ok at night. She currently has an A time of 2 hours (we have had this A time for 3-4 weeks) and sleeps about 40
Minutes for naps. She was waking once a night and had STTN before the 4 month repression. During the 4 month regression she still mostly woke once a night (sometimes 2x) and again around 5. After the sleep regression we had one STTTN and then 4 glorious nights of waking once between 1-3 and then sleeping till 6 or later. The past 2 nights she has been waking every 1-3 hours. Every 2-3 at the beginning of the night and then every hour or more after the night feed around 1-2. She has mild reflux but it has been a non-issue for two months now and only rarely disturbs her sleep and even when it has she hasn't woken this much. She falls asleep with a paci on her own most times. Sometimes needs help when she it OT or OS. She is swaddled with white noise. She wakes about 40 minutes after bed time and takes 5-20 minutes to get back to sleep with the paci but then sleeps fine the rest of the night.
Any idea what could be causing these crazy wakings? I don't feed her every time she wakes, but try to stick to 2-3 am and 5 am feedings. She doesn't seem to be teething, can feel anything or see any red marks on gums.
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Well, likely that waking shortly after BT is OT from too many short naps in the day and the wakings in the early hours of the morning are likely related to the first A time. Average A time increases from 2hr at 4 months to 2:45-3hr at 6 months, so her ideal A time could be as high as 2:30 at this point in time - I'd try a 10-15min A time increase and see how you go over the next few days, then push again if naps don't get longer and nights are still hairy.
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Hi! How have you been!
I've come to share some insight since our babies are about the same age. My LO is 5 mths on 7/15!
Mine is 20 weeks and I just made a post myself about almost the exact thing! I'll tell you what, they def need a push in A time! And as becj86 mentioned, push is needed! I think what is happening is that they are catching up during the day from the NWs and are in an OT/UT cycle.
I think we both ;) need to push regardless of OT. Try and reach closer to 2.15/2.5 A time. I've been getting many NWs too. Soon after BT..
Also, not that I'm anti paci but remember we were talking gradual removal? I got rid of my LOs paci at 16 weeks... It took a good struggle and few rough days... (And some EASY adjusting) but ever since, nothing but long naps. He was a 45 min napper. Not that it's an issue but, it helped us and he started rolling so I had to remove the swaddle. He started sleeping better (until now that he's close to 5mths too and began the NWs) and longer.
Xoxoxo! Let's increase their time. I think that's the puzzle answer here ;)
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Ok thank you! We've been putting her down at 1h55m and she falls asleep sometimes almost instantly, other times within 5 minutes. Today I put her (or tried to anyway) at 1h10m. First nap she fell asleep instantly, second she was practically asleep before we put her down. Third nap, she took 5 minutes and slept a bit longer even so maybe she's getting used to it? How many days should I do this A time before pushing her more? Hopefully this will help with the night wakings fast enough to have results tonight!
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Hi FTP23! We must have parallel lives! LOL I did the increase to 1h15m today and she was begging to be put to sleep earlier but we managed! I tried the me gradual removal but it kept waking her up every time so I gave up. Maybe I'll try again! How did you get rid of the paci? I am hoping she'll learn to put it in herself soon.
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Give the new A time 2-3 days to settle before increasing. Sounds like its going well so far :)
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Watching this threads as I seem to have a very similar NW problem, every 2-3 hours from 11.30 onwards with a BT of 7pm
I'm wondering if ours is paci related...but also wondering if it's a phase uf do many if us seem to be asking about it!
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Hello! Haha we are quite similar!
Yesterday I accidentally extended his A time b/c he was just OT (from bad nights) so he was way harder to settle to sleep... BUT... He did NW 2hrs after his BT but then slept right until 6am! Sure not the ideal 7 but it was the best night we've had. I think b/c the A time was extended. So I'm going to work on that again. We had been having the perfect naps, super easy PD and walked away... That was at 2hr A time first thing in the morning, and 2hr A time still after a short nap. Long naps he could go maybe like 2.10? I think.. I skimmed through the posts but what's your A time like? If your still under 2 hours that most def can explain short naps too... At our babies age they need more. I read along some thread on here too that they start increasing A time very rapidly around this age on up.
I had always done the GW approach with the paci without knowing. It was never a BIG prop as we always removed it once he seemed sleepy.. And he never seemed to need it. Around the start of the 4mth when his sleep started to change, he seemed more and more dependent on it. Not tooooo much but needed replugging more and that never was an issue before. He began to roll to his tummy so I needed to get rid of the swaddle too (but he was already both legs out and 1 arm out). When I got rid of the paci I just started by not giving it to him at naps... After a few days we had been struggling BUT after posting for advice I realized it was a matter of an EASY issue. Next thing I knew, he just got it! I nailed the right A time and it's like he never needed the paci before! It was glorious. His sleep has been all long naps since. Nights I still swaddled w paci if needed but that's another story but also now we don't use either (being 20 weeks and such good naps I knew he was prb ready) ....
Hope that helps!
It gives me SOME comfort in knowing that it could be developmental and common since it's happening to all of us at the same age haha ;)
Hugs!
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Are you feeding during the night, Sunnyday? What's your EASY? It can really help to increase those A times.
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Shall I post here as I have my own thread further up this board, don't want to hi jack someone else's thread!
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Sorry, no, just keep your thread. Didnt realise you had one. I assume you're just following this thread but happy with your own thread.
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Yes following this one as similar problems but happy with my own thread!
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FPT23 that's great! How was last night? Sounds like things are coming together! I just pushed A time to 2h15m. Yesterday was day 2 and she's still begging to be put down earlier and falling asleep right away. I'm also still getting wake ups anywhere from 20-40 minutes after but she's resettling easier most times. Her ideal Total A time for the day seems to be 9.5 hours. She woke last night at 10 and 11 but she'd gotten her arms out of the swaddle. I left her the first time thinking I'd see how she did but when she woke again I reswaddled her. She slept straight till 4:15! I nursed her and got her back down with a little difficulty but not too much and she's still asleep at 6:40! So as much as she's fighting me on increasing the A time it has certainly helped! I'm hesitant to push it further after today (the third day) but I may do it just to see if I can get a long nap from her.
As for the paci, congrats on weaning it! Yay!! I don't think I'm ready for that at this point but will keep it in mind for sure!
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Take your time with he paci. I just realized it began to cause more issues than not when we hit the 4mth regression. Honestly, it was tough and it went on awhile but it was my EASY! All along. Once I handled that, he was good to go.
Yes, they need time to get used to the new A time. Part of the process but looks like it's working! For us too! It's only gotten better. Maybe it's a fluke haha but he slept from 8ish (he fought BT...OT of course) since he pushed it out not being able to settle... But he slept until 4am and I had to wake him because I felt uncomfortable (and engorged!) not feeding him at all... But he went straight back to sleep until 7! Keep pushing but little by little. Your LO seems to be sensitive to OT so go lightly. My LO handles it pretty well for the most part in his day.
He's at 2.15 ish.... In the mornings.... It seems. He's been needing help lately but of course, b/c of the pushing he's more OT than usual and needs a bit of help. I PD a little before 2.15 (5 mins before) but he struggles a bit.. Wondering at this point if it's OT or UT!? Haha. During the day after a good nap he's going 2.20 ish... I've been tracking his EASY. That's how the pattern seems. More or less.
Good vibes your way! I wonder if the short naps are due to not being able to I.S at this point? Do you get any long naps? You should at least get one, to compensate somewhere from the OT of short naps? If your getting 20 min naps it can also be OS. Have you tried to tone things down before nap time. Not the wind down but maybe a few mins before, take her to a quiet room, or walk around the house a bit? 40 mins can indicate UT, so you may want to focus a bit more on getting those A times right- it's a struggle ::) I know it. Haha! Have you been tracking your EASY?
List it if you have, in EASY format? :)
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Weaning the paci can be a double edged sword with a LO with reflux - it helps keep them more comfortable.
Really from 4 months, ideally, you're revisiting and increasing A time every 2 weeks or so. Where that hasn't happened, LO gets tired at shorter A times out of habit and they do need the push even though they're not keen during the day.
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Will try to post my easy later. We don't get any long naps without extending. 😕
Thanks becj86, is it ok to increase 5 mins every 3 days going forward since she's already exhausted by her current A time? Not sure how I'll keep her up another 10-15!
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Hmmmm maybe it's time to consider some self soothing skills? So her naps extend on their own maybe? I feel this can be fixed with tweaking the EASY though! Hang in there :)
I agree that after 4+ mths their A time increases a lot quicker. Always have to get used to these infants huh ;)
Hugs! Keep us posted xoxoxoxo
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Yeah, smaller increments is fine provided you keep hoing, yk? I presume she has previously slept more than 40 min?
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Not really.... Once when we were out at Disneyland all morning she slept 1h40m without waking. She slept 1 hour in the car once. She slept 50 mins in her crib once or twice but she had had trouble fully settling when falling asleep (wouldn't fully wake but would stir a lot) so hard to tell whether to count that.
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Sorry let me clarify. She doesn't really sleep more than 40 minutes for naps. She has slept longer after we extend and get her back to sleep but not always. It's usually 30-50 more minutes but when she's had short naps the beginning of the day sometimes she sleeps 1-2 hours more. She doesn't extend on her own, we have to replug paci and sometimes hold it in for a bit or replug multiple times. But she almost always extends.
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Here is our approximate EASY from the last two days:
Wake 6:45
E 7 am
S 9-10:30 (wakes after 35-40 mins, goes back to sleep within a couple minutes after paci is replugged)
E 10:45
S 12:45-1:15 (same extension process)
E 1:30
S 3:30-4
E 4
E 6
S 6:30
Wakes between 1-3, we paci her back to sleep 2-3 times and feed anytime after 3, then back to sleep till 6:45
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Curious how to make this work when she needs 4 naps on a day where I can't extend. My husband is on vacation this week so I've been able to spend the time and we have sitters/nannies a few hours a week so I can sometimes extend when they're here, but otherwise I have to take care of ODS and am not able to.
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Gee, I can see why weaning the paci would help, its a major prop.
Given you've a short A time now, I wonder whether she would sleep through the transition with a long enough A time or if she just doesn't know how, yk?
How is she going to sleep? Into cot awake? drowsy? asleep? I wonder if you're stepping in a little early to help her resettle or maybe its taking longer because of that minute you need to get there after you hear her? Hard to know how to help :-/
WRT short naps, basically, you'd do a full A time after WU in the morning, then reduce A time by ~20min following short nap, possibly slightly more for A to BT given she's had a few short naps.
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Yes definite prop but my son was the same and he learned to put it in himself and then was good. As for A time, it's actually high for her age, isn't it? (2.25 and she's just turning 5 mos on the 11th)
She's falling asleep on her own most of the time, although when I extend A times she's so ready for sleep she falls asleep almost instantly when I put her in the crib. She sometimes needs the paci replugged but is usually ok and keeps it in until she's asleep and sometimes while she's asleep.
Thinking she just doesn't know how to transition yet, because I've tried leaving her and she has never resettled herself. The last couple of days we've taken an extra minute to get there (I was going in at 30 mins and waiting) and she's resettled easily. So maybe with time she'll learn! My son was a short napper and he learned between 6-8 months.
So Thursday we extended the first 2 naps (A time was 2h15 for both), then A time of 2h10 and a 30 min cat nap (I didn't try to extend), then 2h10 before bed, brief wake up 40 mins later, resettled right away, slept till 4:45, nursed and back to sleep till 7:45! Best night in a long time!!!
However, yesterday I did the same A time and she wouldn't extend, was super squirdlly and wiggly and I wasn't able to resettle her for this or the other 2 naps. Not sure if this is a result of pushing the A time too far or something else, what do you think? She also woke up at 1:30 am last night and wasn't crying but was restless again and after trying to resettle her for 1 hour I finally nursed her back to sleep and she woke again at 5:45. Wondering what happened yesterday as the day before it was great!
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Hi!
Honestly, the paci is a prop- that's why ur LOs took longer to learn to transition but there's nothing wrong w that! If your ok with it and waiting for her to learn to pop it back herself, ur ok! :)
No I don't think the A times are high. My LO is 20 weeks and he's at 2.20 AFTER a long nap. Short naps 2.15... Or so. After 4+ mths their A times increase a lot quicker so I feel it's best to stay ahead and adjusting to longer A times than to deal with short ones and then the naps get crazy and NWs happen. Also easier when u have a toddler around too ;) don't u think? :)
Find comfort in knowing that what worked one day won't work the next haha! You should track her easy on your phone! I do! That way I can go back and see what worked on that day, what did I do different! I'm a nursing mom too and TBH, since I've extended his A times... Nursing has dropped to once s night which I think is very normal still!
:)
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I'm ok with waiting on the paci since it's only a few weeks away hopefully! I do track the EASY on my phone but it's still pretty erratic. It is helpful to track A times tho!
When extending A times is it really just the first one that counts the most?
Thanks for your support!
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When extending A times is it really just the first one that counts the most?
This is my opinion.
WRT paci - I had similar issues til DS could replug and I wasn't going to risk him sucking his thumb... weaning the dummy was another story :P I think with the reflux, I'd be keeping the dummy too.
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Ah well paci is personal preference and I don't think they are an issue! Hold onto it if it makes things easier for you too :) soon she will get it! Sooner than later that's for sure! My first never took a paci and did the thumb but never caused problems. I think if they suck well into like 6+ years when their permanent teeth come in, it becomes an issue. He also only sucked for sleep- never during the day. My newest addition took to the paci and I didn't mind it UNTIL it became more of a prop for us during the 4mth regression. Either way is ok I feel. Just a matter of preference :)
Well many have said the first A time is normally on the shorter side since the first nap is more a restorative one.
I know I've been advised to start pushing the first yes, then if you get a long nap push the next a bit further than that first A time. For example... Our first A is 2.15 (which has now started giving me 45 UT naps) and if the nap is 1.5 or so, the next A time I'll push for asleep by 2.20/25 A time. It's worked. Since I've began pushing A times, if he happens to short nap one of them, he can still handle the 2.15 A time and give me a long nap for the next.
Pushing A times will be a struggle as they adjust, and I've realized some short naps may happen in the process and hard time getting down or fussy babies... But once they get it, your good! After a good week or so my LO is adjusting better and going down easier again. I see a lot of moms saying their babies can't handle being up any longer and are scared to get that push in (and end up just going back to the shorter A time/or put down sooner) but they need to or you end up in a ugly UT/OT cycle which I got myself with frustrating NWs (which have now stopped since)! ....if they get fussy, mine did best in my arms bouncing him around as I walked and did things-- or watching his hyper brother lol! The best thing that worked for him was taking him outside. Always calms him down immediately. It helped push those extra 10/15 mins ;) personally, I prefer a slightly OT baby with good naps or if short, can easily be resettled. Where as UT naps are rarely resettled and they end up getting OT anyway and it can get confusing, imo!
Hope that helps!
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Ok all good to know! Honestly she sleeps pretty well at night most times (except last week before we extended A times but now I know what to look for!). Last night she slept 11 hours only waking once to feed and I'm happy with that. Didn't have to replug paci at all in that time. So I'll go with it for now!
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Sounds good!!
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Ok still needing help and encouragement with A times. Is it ok to cover that here since we've been talking about that on this thread? Im putting her down at 2.15 or at least as close to it as I can get her. she falls asleep within 1-2 minutes and sleeps about 30 mins at which point I go in with paci and after 5-20 mins she's usually back to sleep. I'm struggling on pushing the A time further than thus because she's so miserable already by the time I get her down but will do it if you all think I should! (I need encouragement on this because I'm always doubting!)
And can I just push the first A time and leave the rest where they're at (2.15-2.20)? My guess is yes based on comments above but just checking! As the first A time gets longer how do I keep the day the same length? Make the A time before the 3rd nap less? Thanks and sorry for so many questions!
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What's your day looking like now? and how old is she?
How is she when she wakes from that short nap? Usually an OT nap wouldn't take 20min to resettle unless she's really upset - I would think 5min would be reasonable if not long for resettling an OT waking. Its hard to know whether to push without seeing your EASY and knowing how she's behaving when waking at 30 min but probably worth pushing the first A time that little bit - if she can't do a long A time off a night sleep, when can she?
What's your concern re: length of day? It won't always be the same and around 6 months, the day just naturally gets a bit longer and shrinks back down to ~12hr when the catnap goes.
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Well scratch all that! LOL things really do happen fast at this age...
We've had a small amount of early night wakings and early risings the last 2 nights and all of a sudden she's not begging to be put down at 2 hours anymore. Got her just over 2.20 she went down easy (she usually fusses) and was hard to resettle. Will try push her to 2.30 tomorrow! I'm sure I'll be back with more questions or at least an update! Thank you again. Really appreciate the support and advice!
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Happy days :) Keep us posted.
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Ok is this OT or UT? We had a messy morning of waking early and going back to sleep for short periods of time (first 10 mins then 40 mins) so morning A time was way off. She slept great however, had to resettle once with paci at 30 mins but she slept over 2 hours before I woke her to feed her. Did an A time of 2.5 for second nap and she woke after 10 mins and wouldn't resettle. Is it possible she was so OT she was amped? Or is this UT? This is only day 2 of pushing the A time to 2.5 hours, so hard to believe she needs more. Still had an early waking of 5:40 and took forever to resettle her but it might have been reflux and also possible teeth... So hard to know!
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10mins is most likely OS or pain, maybe a jolt as she was still getting properly into sleep. Its quite possible the A time still needs a push.
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Looks like teeth! White patches on lower gum area where bottom teeth come in. 😊
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Ok now she's not resettling after a 2.5 hr morning A time and she's also not resettling easily after her early morning feed. Yesterday she slept through till 5:30 which was amazing but she never really resettled. Today she slept till 3:45, also good, but then took an hour to get back down only to wake at 5:50 and not go back down. She's chatty and restless during these times. Her next leap isn't supposed to start for 3 more days but maybe she started early? Do I try to tweak? Just go with it???
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Sorry, really struggling to get a picture of the day - can you write out in EAS format?
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Sure! We had a near perfect day and I seemed to have just gotten A times down:
Wake 7:15
A 2.5
Sleep 7:45-11:05 (woke at about 25 mins and resettled with paci easily)
A 2h25m
Sleep 1:30-3:20 (woke after 30 mins and resettled easily again)
A 2h5m
Sleep 3:50-4:15
A 2h10m
Sleep 7:40 pm-5:30 am never really settled after 5:30
Since then I've only extended one afternoon nap and that was a challenge.
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Today has been:
Wake 5:50 after sleeping 10h45m (woke once at 4 and was hard to resettle after feeding) wouldn't resettle at 5:50
A 2.5
S 8:20-9 wouldn't resettle
A 2h20m
S 11:20-12:05 wouldn't resettle
A 2h15m
S 2:20-2:50 wouldn't resettle
Now I'm stuck trying to fit a 4th nap in and not have her total A time be 11-12 hours...
UPDATE: she resettled for nap 3 after 20 mins and slept till 4:30. In crib for bed at 6:25, fell asleep 4 times but kept waking up needing the paci, which is not typical unless UT, OT or OS. She finally fell asleep at 7:30, 3 hours after she woke from her nap.
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Yep, so I think that shows she's become used to 2.5hr A and you're still getting the too-early first nap early WU and the 40min naps, so time to increase again. Being a few days from the next leap - she's nearly 6 months now?
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She's only 5 months 10 days. As I write (it's 5 am) she's chatting in her crib after sleeping through till 4:15 and now can't get back to sleep. She's fallen asleep 3 times (both on me and in crib) and keeps waking up. My presence seems to only get her going, whereas before it would help soothe her, so I've left and she seems to be settling.
I'm really wondering if the leap started early (we're now 2 days away and it's supposed to last 4 weeks). I can try to push A time again tomorrow and see how it goes!
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Not sure I'll be able to push A time as I may not have a solid wake up time. She's atill chatting away at 5:25 so pretty much been mostly awake since 4:15.
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She ended up going back to sleep for a little while but woke again at 6:20. Will try to push naptime to 9!
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Alright, sorry, thought she was older. Still think its worth pushing to see how she goes.
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As mentioned above, the day gets longer as A times increase and then shorter once you drop the third nap. Is there a basic standard of what's too long and too short? Right now she's getting about 10.5 total hours of A time. Her morning A is up to 1h45m (she is 5.5 months) and the others are around 2h20m give or take. Once I fed her to 3 hrs in the morning I automatically try for 3 hours for all A times and her total A time is 9 hours? What if she sleeps late one morning and takes a long and late morning nap and a long pm nap and total A time is less than 9 hours, is that crazy and too for total A time? I'm sure it just depends on the kid but wondering if there is a basic min and max for most babies?
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I tend to suggest to aim for a day length of 11-13hr and just take whatever A time total fits in there ;)
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Ok thank you! Ours is ending up a touch longer, about 13.25-13.5. I've been getting 5:30-ish wake ups and having to nurse her back to sleep because she starts protesting loudly and my sons room is next door. Here is what our day is, yesterday was the first day I got a 2h45m morning A time...
Wake 6:30
A (2.45)
S 1 9:15-10:45
A 2.20
S 1:05-2:25 (couldn't extend yesterday so ended up being (30 mins)
A 2.20
S 4:45-5:15
A 2.20
S 7:45
Wakes at 3 am for night feed and again at around 5:30/5:45, nurse back to sleep in rocker and sleeps another hour.
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She went back down much easier after each early morning wake up today and was able to handle the 2.45 better today! Still fell asleep within one minute of putting her in crib tho!
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Ok we had company last night and she was a little OS when I put her to bed and took a while to fall asleep, 2h52m.
But she never did her usual wake up after 30-40 minutes! She broke out of her swaddle at 2 but my hubby APOP'd with the paci and kept her asleep till 3 and I fed her then. She went back down easy and woke at 6! I gave her the paci and she fell right back to sleep! So maybe she needs more time between last nap and bed time? Which means maybe I need to push the am wake time to 3 hours as quickly as possible and just do 2 naps??? 😁
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Hi! Sorry there has been many posts since I last wrote!
But skimming through the last posts you've made, yes that first A time is SUUUUUUUPER short. 1.45 is very little. Our LOs are the same and mine is at 2.45 first A time. Of course all vary. But yes u need to push that first nap.
Right now our babies are starting to transition to 2 naps a day. But in order to do that your A times need to increase slowly and eventually push out that last CN of the day. Hopefully naps get longer for you now too with the A increase. It's really a process. Mine recently began fighting the CN but some days he still needs it so I have to nurse to sleep or go take him on a stroll. Doesn't really matter how so long as I don't end up with a super long A time to BT which can happen. It is a tricky time for them right now! Some days you need the CN but they don't want it, and others the day went well and no CN was needed. Baby needs to have at least 3hr A times to get rid of the CN and so little by little build up to it.
Hope this helps! Xo
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Hi! We're also at 2.45, I might have written 1.45 somewhere by accident. Based on last night tho I bumped it up a bit today and she slept 1h15m for first nap without me having to extend! Woohoo! Just got a 3 hour A time before nap 2 so we'll see how she does! Thinking/hoping today will be our first 2 nap day! Fingers crossed!
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Yes as they reach 6 mths they are closer to 3 hr A
Yeah u wrote 1.45 baha sorry!!
Awesome on the naps! :)
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Pleased to announce we had our first two nap day! She'll be 6 months next week. No extensions needed for nap 1 for three days in a row with an A time of 3 hours. YAYYYY! Still had to extend second nap but succeeded and went down easy at bed time. Whew! We'll see how the night goes. We had lots of NW last night but yesterday was a very messy and OT day so fingers crossed tonight will be good! Thanks for the support!
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Yay!!! Happy news :D
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Thank you! Night did not go so great! She woke after 40 mins (typical) but took a bit to get back down whereas before shed usually go right back to sleep with the paci. I woke up at 3:30 and she was laying there wide awake and quiet. No idea how long she's been awake. I waited 15 mins till she started fussing and then went in to nurse her. She was restless and took some time to settle down. She slept on and off while she nursed and I finally got her back in the crib asleep at 5 am. I woke at 6 and she was wide awake, no idea how long she'd been awake. I was so tired that I just nursed her back to sleep and she slept till 7:15 on me.
Here was our EASY yesterday:
Woke 6:10
A 3 hrs
S 910-1045
A 3 hrs
S 145-330 had to resettle at 30 mins, took 8 mins to settle down
A 3 hrs
S 6:30 pm
Wondering if she's just getting used to the A times or if something else is causing the difficulty getting her back down at 3??? Also wondering if the second A time needs to be tweaked to get her to sleep through but she's already falling asleep as we take our pre-nap walk!
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Well you mentioned she had been OT so that probably affected her night.
According to your easy- it's very possible she's OT from all the A time pushing you did. They are all at 3hrs but she just started working up to that. You wouldn't want to push every A time to 3hrs as she's not used to it and you will get an OT baby. What works for US is when he starts short napping (40/45 UT) the next day I push 15 at whatever nap he shortened. It tends to be the morning one for us. He seems to prefer long mornings (many don't but it depends your LO) ...so when he starts giving me UT naps, I push 15 mins (because he can handle 15 well) ....if he takes a good nap, the next A time still remains as usual. After he's adjusted to his new morning A time, I gradually (about a week later) push the second A time but not a full 15 (since he hadn't short napped the second nap) but 5/10.
You need to push her gently. It can help avoid OT
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So funny, it's so hard for me to see the forest through the trees! It makes perfect sense that she's OT! She was resisting the a time of 2.5 hours and giving me short naps and not resettling so I guess I should have pushed to 2.45 instead of 3 right away. I just didn't want our day to be too short! Since she did semi-ok, I'm dropping A times maybe 5 minutes today and going forward and hoping she adjusts in a few days time. Thanks for the insight!
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Haha it's ok it happens!
Yes and only work with 1 A time... For a few days... Once she's adjusted, and takes a good long nap, try to extend the next A time by 10 mins/15 (depending what your LO can handle. DS1 could not handle OT well, and DS2 handles it better. Extending was always a bit more challenging with DS1 too) ...for a few days, etc. it really works great when you progressively help them. Avoids crazy meltdowns and tough settling at naps- all thaaaaat!
At this age many are still transitioning from 3-2... So there will be days that you will need to squeeze a CN and wake her after 20-30 mins. It's tricky especially b/c they also need it but are growling out of it so they resist it. I have to nurse him to take it (when we need it) or a stroller/car ride. Not always does he need a CN and makes it to a good BT, but it's not always the case. Eventually you will reach the right A time and that CN will be a thing of the past.
Im barely at 2.45 A time.. As I mentioned, he was doing 2.5 at all A times until he consistently short napped me his morning nap for 3-4 days... That's when I increased ONLY that A time for the next few days and we were back to long naps. Having increased his morning, the next A time remained 2.5.... And now, he takes about 10-15 mins to nap his second nap... Rather than sleep right away as usual with his 2.5 A time... So, I increased and try and have him asleep by 2.45 now. So, I'm extending his second A time now ;) , see what I mean?
Good luck :)
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FPT23 can you give me an example of your easy when you fit a cat nap in? Somehow we've gotten super off track (probably because I've been letting her nurse/sleep on me when she EW to prevent ODS from waking up but as of today I'm not giving in anymore! She's been EW (before 6) and I've been nursing back to sleep till 6:45 or so then having A time of 3 hours and getting a 1.5 hour nap with no extension. But then she's been falling asleep in the car at around the 2 hour mark before I can get her home and messing up the whole day! Would like to see how your typical day goes with similar A times to ours simce our LO are the same age! Thanks!
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Hello :) our EASY is never the same everyday either but more or less as follows (depending on wake up time since he sometimes wakes at 8)
This was yesterday
E 7
A
S 9:45-11:15
E 11:30
A
S 2:00-4:00
E
A
S (BT) 6:30pm -7:00am
These times are when he's eyes closed to eyes open. So I will put down 5-10 mins before those times above. He sleeps independently very well though. I think you your LO has built up OT from all those pushes you gave her. Give her sometime to adjust and hopefully those EW pass! But don't worry about nursing back down at those early hours... It's one of the joys of breastfeeding I feel. I'm guilty of it too and honestly it's never created a habit or prop to us.
I do CNs when BT would be too early. If the next sleep time falls before 6pm and extending A time to BT would be too long. I also do a CN when my other son has an activity like a sports practice. I would prefer not to do a CN b/c his BT ends up around 8/9pm... And he actually sleeps less at night and still wakes at 7ish am. So the overall night sleep is less and they need more since its restorative. Night sleep is more important than day.
That's why this age and transition is tricky ::)
Those car ride snoozes are the worst but it doesn't necessarily have to mess up the whole day. If she takes a small CN in the car, hey it happens. So just shorten her next A time a bit before the nap. Over all I've noticed the times still fall right around the same routine. Keep in mind, they can't go by the clock just yet either and everyday can be different. This is merely a routine to have some stability.
Hopefully she's better rested soon and those EWs pass quickly! :)
Hugs :)
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Thank you! I was thinking the same about nursing back to sleep but lately when she wakes around 5:45, if I nurse her she sleeps very fitfully on me, won't unlatch and keeps drinking and drinking (which makes her reflux worse) wakes up on and off, fidgets, and can't be put down or given the paci if unlatched. If she does fall fully asleep she usually wakes if I unlatch her and then freaks out until I put her back on the breast. Usually she has just nursed 1-2 hours ago so is clearly not hungry but still expects the breast. I feel like the process has gotten us into this vicious cycle where we don't know when her exact wake up time is (because she wakes up and falls asleep so many times and is sleeping very restlessly) and then she's cranky and falling asleep on our morning pre-nap walk and still tired after a 1h30-45 min nap. So yesterday I decided no more nursing back to sleep at this hour. If I can't soothe her back to sleep after 5:45 or so, she's up for the day. She woke at 5:51 today and wouldn't be settled back to sleep so I opened the blinds, got her up and fed her and she had an early nap (A time still 3 hours). She's been asleep for 1h45m.
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So with no catnap, he is ok with such little A total A time during the day and sleeps ok at night? And if you do have a catnap with this general schedule, what is the typical A time between nap 2 and catnap and then between catnap and bed? I'm getting some icky NW with a 3 hour morning A time and 2 hour A times between nap 1 and 2 (not short on purpose but keeps falling asleep in car at 2 hours) and between nap 2 and 3 (purposely short so bed time won't be too later and and 2.5 hour A time to bed.
Thanks again so much! It is seriously tricky which is why I tried to push so fast but was obviously too fast!
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And totally understand it is different each day, just asking in general. 😊 I've been tempted to put her on a schedule with naps at set times but I know most babies this age don't do well with that so just going with set A times, which always worked well with ODS and often still does even at almost age 5!
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Put her down at 2h15m for bed and while she woke her usual 40 mins in, she lasted till 3:30, then back to sleep till 640 so looks like I've found what works for now! However, after a good nights sleep, her A time of 3 hours didn't seem to be enough to keep her asleep as I had to resettle at 35 minutes. Her second A time of 2h45 doesn't seem to be enough either as I'm getting 35 mins and no extension. think I will increase second A time to 3 hours and see how that goes for a couple days and then if still getting wake ups from first nap maybe extend 5-10 mins. Thoughts?
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Hi sorry I've been out.
It would be easier if you could put all your posts together in one. There's several to read ;)
I scanned through it and 35 min naps are generally OT so she wouldn't need a push. She's OT. As I had mentioned before it will take sometime to adjust and no day is the same... 2.15 for A time is on the low side for her age too. There are various links to aid in A times.
Here's average A times so you can refer back to it:
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
Again, generally 30/35 min naps are OT. You had just pushed her so much so quickly that she needs time to adjust. Work with one A at a time and it takes a few days Hun. Work with one A time then after a few days of its working, increase her next A IF she's ready for a push.
Again, if ahe starts short napping 40/45 that's UT.. Keep the A time the same to see if for the next few days at the same A time she still is giving UT naps. If so then push. No need to push unless she needs it. Pushing all at once as you did can cause much OT which can lead to short naps and NWS.EWS.
PleaE give it some time. Trial and error.
:)
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Hi sorry for so many posts! Will try to keep it in one post going forward. :) For her, if she's OT I've always been able to extend. 35-40 mins and no extension has generally been UT. I backed off on the A time and was getting no extensions. I extended today by 10 mins and she woke at 30 mins but resettled easily. She's a confusing one!
The 2h15 A time is only after a 25 min cn at the end of the day so her day is not too long. Since her second nap has been short, I've been giving her a third nap in the stroller after 2 hours and then after the stroller nap she gets tired for bedtime fast so I've been able to put her down after a shorter A time to make sure the day isn't too long. This was yesterday:
Wake 5:50
A 3h
S 8:50-11:05
A 2h45m
S 1:50-2:25
A 2h10m
S 4:35-5 in stroller
A 2h15m
S 7:15 falling asleep during nursing and went down easy
I had an A time of 2h30m after the CN the day before and she seemed OT when I put her down and had a messy night so the earlier bed time seemed to help!
You are right though I will slow down a bit I always tend to be too reactive!!! 😊
Still curious tho, on days when your LO only has 2 naps and his total A time is around 8 hours he does ok at night? Mine seems to do best with 9.5-10 hours of A time and a little apprehensive about such low total A time! Guess I won't know till I try!
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Hi hun, just popping on with support and a quick couple of suggestions :) it looks like this thread has been going on a while now and the focus has shifted a little to the 3-2 (isn't it fun?! ;) ). I think it might be a good time to start a new thread with a summary of where you are up to, and any particular issues you're facing - that way you're likely to get a fresh perspective which is never a bad thing!! Particularly if you mention '3-2' in the title other mums going through similar will hopefully chip in :) The other thing I thought of was the 3-2 support thread - have you joined that yet? Always good for comparing notes. ((Hugs)) and hang in there, transitions are always bumpy but you'll get through it xx
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Hi! Thank you! I did check out the 3-2 support thread a couple times but it wasn't really active so thought I'd continue here since I was getting some good support and answers. 😊 We've had a couple of 2 nap days (3 to be exact) with some 3 nap days thrown in because of a short nap or being out and about (which leads to short car/stroller naps). One of the 2 nap days went great and the night was great but now she's waking earlier and earlier every night. Last night it was 1:30. Assume the NW is due to the transition and will hopefully go away once we're fully on two naps!
I can definitely start a new thread. Should I do that on this board or naps or EASY?
Thanks again!!!
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Hello!
As the transition continues, you will continue to get some 3 nap days, and some 2 nap days. Super common. We've had those around here too! I think until they are able to handle a proper A time to push that last CN out of the way, you'll be set! But as I mentioned previously, it takes time to push those A times gradually to avoid A LOT of OT, kwim? That is why we suggest to slowly push A times, to avoid melt downs and can make for a smoother transition.
As far as where to begin a new thread, it's best to find what you feel you would like the most help with :) as Jessmum said, fresh eyes and more familiarity when you post something more specific such as "help with 3-2 nap transition" etc. what do you feel you need the most help with? Is it the nap transition? Is it her EASY and A times? Is it the NWs? It's best to try to stick with one so we can FULLY be able to help and try and handle it head on! Sometimes it's all connected but it seems your main focus has been naps! :) maybe you can start a fresh, new, detailed thread in naps- see if it helps!
I'll keep my eyes peeled for ya! Hope I've helped some!
Xo!!
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You've definitely helped thank you! We have a fair amount of night wakings but I have a feeling it's linked to naps as it doesn't seem to be habitual to will post there. Thank you!