BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: labrodyk on July 23, 2016, 11:45:42 am
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Hi ladies!!
I am forever grateful for Becj86 over in EASY Forum for being my sounding board over the last few months but neither of us can seem to get a handle on my daughter A - we've hit 27 pages of me rattling off our days. She is so hit and miss with A times (we've pushed later, scaled back, and tried everything in between) and now seeming to need considerable A to bed in order to self settle without crying! You're more than welcome to read my latest issues here: Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!
I'm wondering if anyone could arm me with a plan that I can try and stick to and see what she does? Just feeling really lost in regards to her A times and what to do with our evenings where bedtime is starting to get quite late at 8pm. I know that doesn't seem late but our almost 4yo son H is in bed usually between 6.30/7.00pm (even as early as 6) with no day nap. We have kindy drop/off pickup two days a week which are also playing havoc with our EASY too - I have to leave the house at 8.30 and I'm finding that after a bottle on our return trip she'll suck her thumb and fall asleep by 9.30...OR she screams blue murder whenever we go near the car. I then need to leave at 2.30 for pick up (it's a 30 minute trip there, drop/pick up with often a little stay, and return home)
Today was as per the below;
WU: 6.30 chatting - could have been earlier.
OOB: 7.15 (usually 7 but i fell back asleep)
Nap 1: 10.03; 10.08-11.24
Nap 2: 2.40 in the car but didn't fall asleep. Into cot at home 3.03; 3.13 asleep and I woke at 4.15
BT: 7.25; lay awake until 7.55 asleep
She really struggles in the morning with a longer A time but I can try pushing it but I'm lost at where I need to get her to have that second nap, how long it needs to be (well both naps really) and how long until BT in terms of 'into bed' I need to go. The last few nights we've FINALLY stopped the screaming when we go to her room and into bed where she can't settle at all. I don't want to make her overtired but I also would like a little structure to the day and what parameters I should be working within to help her get the sleep she needs.
thank you SO much.
Laura
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Afraid I can't give you a plan as I need one too, DS2 is 9 months and 3 weeks & DS1 is 4 too, and we can't seem to get it right either! I'm really not sure if some of it's just developmental/regression but I hate the inconsistency we have at the moment. So no advice just some empathy from me 😀
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My wee one is 8.5 mo and this is what we are doing, if it's any help:
Wakes 6-6.30, normally around 6.15
Nap 10-11.30 if I'm lucky, 10-10.40 if not
Nap 3-3.40ish....if he falls asleep! Can be as late as 4pm start
Bed around 7 but can be later.
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Is it worth experimenting with a shorter 2nd nap if you get a good first one (by good I mean around 1.5hrs or more)?
If she is tired in the morning, stick with that A time.
At this age I think you have 2 options- experiment with capping first nap and hoping for a long nap early afternoon and longer awake time to bed
OR letting her sleep for am nap and experimenting with how short you need to cap pm nap to get an earlier, easier BT.
I know you've had a long journey with your DD's EASY, so may prefer to stick with long am nap when she's tired as you at least know she's getting a long first nap, uninterrupted by kindy :-)
If an hour's 2nd nap gave you a long day and late BT, could you try cutting it to 45 mins?
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Thank you so much everyone, I really appreciate the help.
I've been wanting to cap the second nap but her first is getting shorter so now I feel terrible waking her. She's miserable through her A times, especially in the morning, clinging to me and crying constantly. The second and third A are nowhere near as bad so I don't know what her issue is. I pushed and pushed this morning and the latest I got to was 9.30am and she fell asleep very quickly but was awake from 10.40 dozing.
We had a short nap yesterday afternoon and then a 3.5hr A to bed but she didn't fall asleep for over 30 minutes (7.55pm) and then woke at 6.30.
I think the top tooth is cutting so I am giving pain relief but I'm worried about capping either nap at the moment as she is just so miserable.
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Poor love :(. Our naps go haywire with teeth, too. Hope it's through soon!
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Thanks, me too! It makes the days so confusing! What would you have done tonight?
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap1: 9.35; 9.40-10.50
Nap 2: 1.55; 2.00-2.40 then fell asleep 2.45-2.48.
BT: 6.00; cried for 20 minutes. I sat patting mattress for another 20 minutes before she finally fell asleep at 6.40!
I'm SO confused about how to play our days - nothing seems to be working :(
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It's a tough stage I think. My DD is also teething (top front teeth too) & going through some SA and although she has been an IS since 3mo, now needs me to be in the room with her before she'll settle for BT, unless she's absolutely exhausted. So it's hard yo know whether fighting BT is nap routine related or age and stage.
Those naps look a little UT to me. It sounds like she's really ready for a morning nap though & wouldn't cope with the A time push to get a longer one. Could you try capping your morning nap at 30 mins? And then still trying for afternoon nap around 3hrs later?
Although that might be tricky on days you have kindy pick up, though.
Not sure if this is helpful as my DD is pushing to 1 nap early, but we have a 2 option routine at the moment. On 2 nap days she is fussing and eye rubbing by 9.30 so we do:
Nap 1 9.30-10 (capped)
Nap 2: 1pm until she wakes or get her up by 3
BT- 4.5hrs after waking from nap
Thinking about it, something like this could work for you if you woke at 2.30 on kindy days and did a 6.30 BT? MyDD has high A times for her age (on 1 nap days she does 5hrs morning A time then one long nap) so needs the 4.5 at end of day, but I think 4hrs would be max last A time for your LO.
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the only nap which has ever been reasonably consistent was our morning one so i'm REALLY hesitant to cap it! she was doing close to 4hrs with nap at 10am happily but lately she's hysterical through her A times!! I'm on the computer with her asleep in my arms ~ i was cuddling her to calm down and the next minute she was asleep! 3yo woke her by putting lego on her head >:( so only 30 minutes. PD for second nap at 1.30.
kindy just makes life super hard at the moment but we'll get there I guess. If she short naps the afternoon, how long should her A be to BT? Her naps can range from 20 minutes to 1hr20min (her Sleep Cycle is 40mins not 45 so she only does 1hr20min and 2hr naps not 1.5hr and 2hr15min)?
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Yeah that makes sense about wanting to keep first nap as the long one.
It's trial and error how long they need after a 20 min nap. Average at this age would be between 2-3 hrs, I think but you might nee to just experiment and see- some need more, some less
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Having said that, our days are so mental I'm not sure! Today ended up a day as you described - she's positively miserable which I assume is teeth - but she went to bed without crying and ss.
WU: 6.50
Nap 1: 9.50 -10.20 (my arms)
Nap 2: 1.30-3.30 (cot)
BT: 7.30 PD, asleep by 7.50pm
I have a couple of questions;
1) if I'm not in the car, should I still do 30 minutes in her cot?
2) Do you think the 4hrs for BT should be the time I put down or the time she's asleep by?
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Looks like today was a good day :)
My thoughts on your questions
1) It's a CN and therefore the one she will eventually drop so it's up to you if you want to try for it in the cot. Advantage of that is it gives you 30mins for you/your DS but if it's tricky to settle her for the CN, I think it's ok to AP it, but would try to have the long nap in the cot.
2) Typically A time would be time asleep, but if like today she needs the full 4hrs awake and then SS without crying- go for time in bed! I aim for time asleep but my DD settles fairly quickly (on a good night) so we would usually put her to bed at full A time or only 5-10mins before that.
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Thank you! Will see how we go today :)
Do you think I should wake her in the morning? Today she's woken at 7.10 but she's crying. Hope the day doesn't go too badly.
eta: we had a home doctor around this evening after our crazy day and thankfully whilst she has a fever, no ear or throat infections present. I'm leaning towards teething but seems odd.
Crying all day with fever and lethargic, diarehea, hot/red cheeks, drooling constantly, wanting to be held & swollen gums. I was just trying to calm her down and offer pain meds and the next second she was asleep in my arms. She was quite restless, woke and cried but I patted her and she dozed off again but not as restorative as a cot nap. Strangely, it was the first 'arms' cuddle sleep I've ever had with her. So scared of making bad habits that I missed it during the newborn stage :'(
WU: 7.10
Nap1: 9.10-9.15 (car)
Nap 2: 10.00-10.30 (car)
Nap 3: 11.45-12.10 (arms)
Nap 4: 3.15 (car for a few minutes, kept closing eyes but couldn't stay asleep)
Nap 5: 4.00-4.30 (cot)
BT: 7.30; asleep 7.40/45
Will start again when she's feeling better. thank you for helping.
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Poor thing, hope she feels better soon.
Re morning wake up- It's a personal choice. I let mine sleep as long as they want in the morning when possible but both are usually pretty early risers so if they sleep late I think they must need a catch up & just adapt naps to fit. Other people prefer to wake by a certain time for consistency.
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These have been our last few days and she's still sick. We've started antibiotics and giving pain relief. What do I do when it's too late for a catnap and too early for bed?
Friday
WU: 7.20 (woke her)
** crying and upset in car from 9am.
Nap 1: 9.45-10.15 (car)
Nap 2: 12.40; asleep quickly. Woke 1.30 resettled. 1.40 resettled. 1.47 awake.
Nap 3: 3.15-3.40 (car)
BT: 6.40; 6.50 asleep by
Saturday
NW: 5.55 crying out.
WU: 7.30
Nap 1: 10.20-10.37
* Crying whilst out. Trying to fall asleep in the car from 1.20 but tried to keep her awake.
Nap 2: 1.50; 1.55-2.35!
BT: 6.15; cried on/off until 7.30! I went in and patted several times until she started playing with my hands. Very OT
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Poor thing sounds like she's still unsettled with being ill.
Re CN/BT- for me it depends what time the sleep is due. If before 5pm, I'll do a CN but it gets shorter the closer to 5 we get. I've done 4.55-5.05 before just to top up enough to get to a 7/7.30 BT. If sleep is due after 5 I push on through & do earlier BT - for me 6pm is earliest I'll so sometimes there's a grizzly hour 5-6pm!
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Hi Scottishmummy!
How are you?
Temp is gone, teeth are bulging and we're doing the best we can but she is SO miserable and upset. She's not eating much solids at all But all her A's she cries. And cries. And cries until she falls asleep in my arms or I put her to bed. Seems like her A's have just plummeted!
Today was:
WU: dozing between 6-7 I think but awake and chatting from 6.50
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 9.15-9.57 in my arms
Nap 2: 1.00; 1.05-2.25(cot)
BT: 5.55; 6.10 asleep. Cried terribly on PD and intermittently but was very tired prior.
She's Not eating much solids at all. Bottles are still okay but not as much. I am putting this down to teething?!
Do you think perhaps I should watch her cues, put her down when I think she's tired? try and get to 3hrs A between naps at least if short and/or cut arvo nap short to conserve bedtime?
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Hi
She sounds so miserable, poor thing. She must be in pain with the teeth or still not well, or tired from it all. How have her nights been?
Did you follow her cues today? That day looks pretty good, nap-wise. I think following her cues until she eeks to have caught up on sleep might be best. I seem to remember from EASY forum she sometimes has phases of crying a lot during A time. Do you think it's a developmental leap thing?
I just ask as my DD is almost exactly same age and going through a horrible night time sleep regression right now & the only explanation I can think of is developmental.
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Oh dear, last night was pretty bad! She slept ok until 1.45. Cried and fell back to sleep just after 2am. Woke 40 minutes later and this time she wouldn't stop. We gave pain meds and Hubby patted until 3.300. Woke at 5.30 again and cried for a while before going back to sleep on her tummy until I'm not sure. She was dozing and then crying out at 8.30.
This flipping to her tummy is so unusual. She normally stays on her back with her blankets on, even now she can move so perhaps lying on her back is too much pressure on her jaw?
She's not at all happy on wakeups either :(
WU: ?
OOB: 8.30
Nap 1: 11.30-2.40. Almost asleep on change table for nappy/sleeping bag. Popped into cot
BT: 6.00; asleep 6.10pm
She's just really unhappy anywhere; in the highchair, car, pram, trolley, my arms, on the ground. Lasts about a few minutes and then starts crying. She was hysterical after a bath, anything to do with dressing she's screaming (laying down?). I'm starting to get worried...
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Oh no! Sounds really upsetting for you all. Worth another visit to the dr?
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I'm not sure...it's all very strange. She pulled a 13hr night last night so perhaps she's just exhausted and catching up? 6.10pm-7.10am. I think I'm best to cap the afternoon nap if we're getting too late for bedtime, try and get an hour 20 or more in the morning and then down again after that with 3/3.5 hr to bed PD depending on nap length.
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Sounds like a plan...
Sometimes they need a good catch up sleep to reset. I hope she's happier today and naps work out for you
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Thanks lovely! They kind of worked and she is a little happier but not quite. I think the top teeth are causing massive grief (seems like all front 4 at once!) plus I think a lot of developmental Wonder Week stuff too with a big dose of SA on top! Poor possum.
Today was really strange and I'm wondering whether she is quite high sleep needs? Her A's are a lot lower and tonight especially after a good nap I had to wake for she was in bed just after 3hr A and fell asleep in 10 minutes. Not sure if perhaps I've been pushing last A quite late when she could be OT?
I was super worried about OT this morning and was much to conservative with her A and put her down for an UT nap - she didn't resist me and fell asleep quickly but was around an hour all up, just a bit disjointed where she was trying to get back to sleep.
WU: 7.10
Nap 1: 10.11; 10.20-11.10; dozed until 11.30 when i got her up.
Nap 2: 2.13; 2.18-4.15 (I woke her)
BT: 7.16; asleep by 7.30
In regards to the first A, just wondering how much I need to move it and how I can maintain the easy BT with the A's throught the rest of the day. OR, should I just stick to a set nap at 10 even if I know she short naps and play the rest of the day by 3hr A?
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It's a tough time for them at this age so much going on. My DD's nights are still really disrupted with the same thing - teeth, SA, WW ::)
I remember your DD's A times have gone up & down before. I was wondering whether it might be either still catching up or maybe more tired when going through developmental stuff? They tend to sleep more when having physical growth spurts, so why not with cognitive leaps too?
Until even tly she's been doing a 3hr first A time at the most, is that right? I'd stick with it another day or 2 to see if thec1hr nap was a one off or not. If you do that & still get short UT type naps with that you could try a small increase maybe try 3hr15? You can always go up or down depending on how she gets on.
The rest of the day: at the moment 3hrs seems to get you another nap. So I think stick with that unless it stops working!
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Thank you so much, it's such a tough age for all!
I'll keep track of the next few days and get back to you. This morning A was super grumpy, clingy, tired signs from 2hr A at 9am but we pushed through until our usual 3hrs.
PD: 10.10
Asleep by: 10.20 at the latest
Woke: 10.53
Laying in bed dozing, chatting, rolling an hour later at midday.
Sleep: 12:00-12.50 approx
A:
S: 4.00; 4.05 cried out and rolled over, asleep 4.10ish. Opened her door at 4.50 to wake up.
BT: 7.35; asleep 8.20! oops.
It's that bedtime I ALWAYS get wrong if I let her sleep or cap, each time I just can't get it right! eeek
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I find the late pm CN and BT timing tricky too. If DD has a shorter than normal "long" nap (like today) & needs a late pm CN, I try to limit any sleep after 4pm to 15-30mins Max- less the later after 4pm we get & then do BT 2.5-3hrs after waking
Hope she has a good night for you
Xxx
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you're SO right, I totally should have cut it off at 4.30 and done approx 3 hours. oh well, really hoping she doesn't wake early.
I can't quite work out why our morning was such a catastrophe? Tomorrow on the way to kindy she is going to fall asleep at that 2.5hr mark so should I be doing the same at home or pushing through? How can the same A be so inconsistent, surely this morning wasn't OT?
Today:
WU: ? around 7
OOB: 7.30
Nap 1: 10.11-10.44 in the car
Nap 2: 1.30; 1.40-2.40 (cot, but had to wake for kindy pick up)
BT: 5.55; asleep 5.59 after a slight cry at PD but woke at 6.35 and lay awake until 6.55/7.00 before falling back to sleep.
Do you have any tips for managing days like the above? It's kind of our norm 2 days a week and it's not great :(
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It's tricky with the kindy pick up & having to wake from what would have been a longer 2nd nap. I think all you can do is compensate with EBT- which you did. I find wu v shortly after BT is usually OT which makes sense with having to wake her but I don't think you can do anything different with the drop off and pick ups. At least she SS back to sleep fairly soon after.
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Hi!! Something has happened and I don't know what to do...these have been our last few days. We've been outa s had to school pickup but she's yet to do a proper nap.
Teeth are still cutting but I have no idea of her exact WU in the morning which is making things aldifficult
WU: ? Awake when I checked at 6.50
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 9.55; 10.00-11.10.
Nap 2: 2.08; 2.15-2.57
BT: 5.55; 6.00 asleep. Restless after 40 minutes but not crying.
WU: 6.52 awake, sucking thumb not sure for how long prior to this!
Nap 1: 9.35; 9.40-10.14;
**yawning continuously, rubbed eyes, crying, not interested in anything, fussing.
resettled but awake at 10.27
Nap 2: 2.27 woke at 2.47, 2.57, 3.02. Awake and rolling around chatting, crying from 3.30, out of bed at 4pm
BT: ?? 6??
Am I totally missing something?!?
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Hi!
Just a bit confused...your second A time was 3hrs on the first day you've posted then 4 on the 2nd. The nap after 4hrs A time could be disrupted from OT? But could also be teeth of course!
The 3hrs A time across the day seemed to give you a pretty good day and night though.
What are your thoughts about it?
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3hrs is okay but she continues to short nap and is very miserable in the morning which means, early nap and early bedtime. I don't know when she wakes exactly and it's making things super difficult at bedtime because she's so overtired so she isn't eating dinner well, cries in bath and is hysterical during nappy and dressing.
It's also difficult routine wise with my older son who I can't synchronize with, with everything so early. She just seems really tired and could benefit from a big long nap but I can't get awake time right! Especially since I have no idea what time she actually wakes. I thought after 3hrs she'd be having a good 1hr20+ nap but our days are mostly 2x 30-40 minutes maybe an hour or 70 minutes.
Today was 4hrs because we were out but she was so WIIIIIDE awake it was insane. I don't like her crying at naps and bedtime...
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I think you've said before that she likes a short morning A time before first nap. That makes it hard to push it out any later. So..could she need the morning nap shortened to get a longer 2nd nap?
But I know that makes kindy days tricky. How many days of the week does your DS have kindy and would your DD do a long 2nd nap (over pick up) if you started it in the car/buggy and had a walk/drive before pick up. Not so good for you but could work if kindy isn't every day.
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I thought she liked a short morning A but nothing has ever been consistent so who knows. I was doing well with pushing her a bit later in the morning but that changed when she started teething and then she'd fall asleep as soon as we'd hit the car on kindy days, even if it had only been a few hours A.
Today was two short 40-60 minute naps and crying for 5 minutes at BT before falling asleep. A's were roughly 3h.
WU: 7-7.30??
Nap 1: 10.15 asleep 10.27-11.27
Nap 2: 2.10; asleep 2.25-3.08
BT: 6.25; 6.35 after crying for 5 minutes.
Unfortunately she's never napped longer than 40 minutes (usually only 20-30) in the car or pram so couldn't offer a longer nap in there. She wakes if I stop and wakes if I keep driving so I can't win. Really hoping these damn teeth cut soon, they've been teasing for weeks, up and down and up and down) must be so miserable.
Today was just as crazy...really thought we'd get a good morning nap but alas, no...
WU: 6.40 awake. Lay in cot until after 7.00
Nap 1: 10.07; asleep ? -10.53. Dozing on/off before falling asleep 11.11-11.18! OOB at 11.30
Nap 2: 2.30; asleep 2.35-4.05
BT: 7.10; 7.40 asleep
^ screamed going into bed and for a good 5+ minutes then seemed to find settling difficult before falling asleep.
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Looks like her naps are getting shorter..and then making her OT by BT?
Do you think it's worth trying more A time (although she might need her usual /shorter A time to catch up on sleep first!)...maybe try the day after you next get a good nap day?
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I wondered if her BT last night was UT given it was such a better nap than her others the last few weeks?!
I'm doing 3hrs A from the time she wakes not the time she's out of bed but that's also the same A for after a short nap versus a long one (like last night).
How much and what do you recommend for an A push and how would that affect my overal EASY? I've always had such difficulty with the routine and maintaining bedtime (I'd really prefer into bed no later than 7.30) after I've pushed out A's as the day starts to run away with us...
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Today was different again but we got a good 2hr+ nap! What would you consider that morning A A's and should I stick to it again tomorrow? What would you count that first A from if I don't know when she wakes? Interesting to see after 3hrs the time to fall asleep was more...perhaps a little UT? Does second A need to be up closer to 3.5hrs? Do I then need to wake her from second nap for a reasonable BT, if so, how long do I give her and attempt PD?
WU: 6.34 already awake not sure how long for?
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.02; asleep 10.09 - 12.20ish (woke around 10.50 but managed to fall back asleep after about 10/15 minutes. got her up when drifting between cycles)
Nap 2: 3.24; asleep 3.36-4.08. Got her up before she drifted off again.
BT: 7.05; 7.43 asleep!
^^ she lay quietly, should j continue to do this A or should she be going down earlier or later? She was quite yawny and eye rubbing from 6...
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Hooray for a 2hr nap. What did you do for 2nd nap? If it were me I would have woken her by 4pm-ish probably for a 7pm BT.
Hi!
As you say it's really hard to judge A time when you're not sure of Wu but looking back at the last week, her first nap seems to fall around 10am usually, regardless of wake time. Would it make it easier to just shoot for that as a set first nap time (& accept it might be earlier on kindy days?)
Then do A time for next nap...around 3hrs if first nap is short (under an hour), 3.5 hrs if it's longer than an hour?
I tend to cap a late afternoon nap (anything starting after 3pm) at no more than one sleep cycle- is that 40 mins for your DD? And less than that if it starts later in the afternoon.
Then from your recent days it looks like she has around 3.5hrs after end of 2nd nap until she falls asleep for BT.
Does that sound like a routine that might suit her/something to aim for?
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I just modified my post! We did basically what you suggested but she took the full 1/2 hour to fall asleep at bedtime...do you think that's ok?
1) should I wake from a good morning nap?
2) I'll try 3.5A but that could leave me with a really short nap for the second?
3) how short and how late do I let that go?
and yes, DD's sleep cycle is 40 minutes so I tend to watch on the monitor for when she's stirring and attempting to transition and then open the door, make some noise etc.
It sounds like a good plan, thank you.
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Ha ha, great minds think alike :)
I think when we discussed 2-1 you said you'd prefer the long am/short pm option? In which case let her sleep as long as she wants for her morning nap.
If you get s good am nap, a short 2nd nap is ok..you might find you get shorter to BT if you cut shorter than one sleep cycle though. How short is a bit of trial and error. It looks like 30 mins around 3.30 is ok for BT. If nap starts after 4 though I might cut to only 20 mins, maybe only 15 if after 4.30 to still keep a 7-7.30 BT.
It looks like with BT tonight it was 3.5hr A roughly from end of nap2 to falling asleep at night..so as my plan above! You could try aiming for 7.30 BT and put her down slightly later?
Good luck for tomorrow, hope the plan works out!
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Thank you so much! Your timings are really helping me get Miss Audrey the sleep she needs. Hubby was home this week so I was able to leave her to sleep (if she didn't wake). We had a NW last night and she's been a bit restless today during naps, not solid sleeping and waking/stirring frequently. I think another tooth might be cutting. It's also hard to keep her awake in the morning and through that second A. Bedtime she appears like she can power through for hours although we know better. She does however have this crazy meltdown after her bath! Once she's dressed and had her bottle she seems totally fine!
Thursday 11/8
Nap 1: 9.40-10.15 (car on way home from kindy)
Nap 2: 1.15-3.15 (woke at transitions but fell back to sleep)
BT: 6.50: 7.00 asleep
^^ absolute meltdown in the bath/pj routine.
NW: 3.50. Found her at the other end of the cot sitting up crying. Cold? Teeth? Took a while to fall back asleep and was awake at 7.00 when I woke
Friday 12/8
WU: 7.00 or earlier.
Nap 1: 9.55; 10.00-11.20, dozed until 11.40
Nap 2: 2.40; ? 2.50? - 3.20; 3.23-3.26; 3.28; 3.29; 3.31-3.32; fell back asleep solidly until I woke her at 4.
^^ crying uncontrollably after bath and getting dressed! So weird.
BT: 7.20; 7.40 asleep.
Our BT routine is usually dinner around 5 followed by a play. Bath/shower, pj's followed by a bottle in the lounge room. Then more books and play with big brother (up to 30 minutes depending how we're going with time). I watch for tired signs and Then just before bed we'll go and brush teeth, into sleeping bag, heater and white noise on, cuddles whilst I rock and sing lullaby briefly then put into bed awake. Do you think this is ok? She sucks her thumb.
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Your afternoon sounds very similar to ours, M fought his morning nap at 10am but slept for an hr then this afternoon after 3.5hr A he woke after 30 minutes was unsettled for about 15 mins after a cuddle and put down and then slept solidly until I woke him at 4pm. He wanted to go to bed at normal time but I pushed him out 15 minutes longer so only 3hr15 A to sleep! I wonder if it is all teeth related, he has his bottom 2 they came through about 6 weeks ago and one top tooth has fully cut through but I guess the 2nd one isn't far behind. I've just posted on the 2-1 thread, he seems pretty whiney and clingy after about 1 hr A I cannot go anywhere without him calling me and climbing up my legs but when I pick him up he's wriggling to get down.
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he seems pretty whiney and clingy after about 1 hr A I cannot go anywhere without him calling me and climbing up my legs but when I pick him up he's wriggling to get down.
Yes, yes and more yes!!! It stopped for a week and then just started here again which coiincides with the second upper front tooth cutting.
Today has been a bit frustrating because we have my husband's 30th birthday party today so I was hoping for a nice long sleep before midday...I got a lousy 40-60 minutes if I was lucky!!
WU: 6.25 I heard her
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: I kept her up until 10am which was ridiculously hard work (as per above) and she barely slept an hour... 10:00 into bed asleep shortly after and struggling to stay asleep from 11.00, completely awake from 11.15.
Nap 2: I'll be SO busy so hopefully this doesn't fall too late but she'll be super OS :(
I couldn't get her to calm down for the second nap, I had to feed her in her room and when I went to put her down at 2.20 she was practically asleep. She slept 2 hours I think, I checked the monitor at 4 and she was asleep.
Will aim for 7.30 BT to be asleep by 8.00.
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Some days at just like that, especially with parties etc. Hope everyone had a good time & you get a good night.
Your bedtime routine is very similar to ours, including the crying at bathtime for no clear reason. I think they are sometimes just a bit tired at the end of the day.
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She slept okay but why wake so early? :'(
BT: 7.50; 8.10 asleep
WU: 6.20 when I checked so could have been earlier.
OOB: 7.15 cause I fell back asleep but Audrey just lay there sucking her thumb.
It's very difficult to keep her awake and happy int the morning until 10 :(
I did it this morning but she fell asleep when i picked her up to move from change table to bed! Was really restless after the first 40 minutes but finally fell back to sleep after about 30+ minutes.
Nap 1: 10.00-12.00 with a big restless period from 10.40-11.20.
Nap 2: 2.15 in the car but wouldn't fall asleep. 3.40 into bed. I went outside to garden so not sure if she actually fell asleep but DH got her up at 4.20 and she was already awake! ... I'm hoping she actually slept.
BT: aiming to PD at 7.30?
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Maybe the EW was from a longer afternoon nap than normal the day before?
And maybe she was more tired this morning because of EW?
Looks like she might be getting into the phase of the 2-1 where a long morning nap makes it harder to get the pm nap? Or she needs more A time & only a a short (30min?) CN if she does a long am nap? I think we talked about trying 3.5hrs after a long am nap?
Sounds like the day before was busy with the party so out of routine so maybe give a few more days trying again with timings we talked about to see if she gets back on track with sleep. So...
Nap 1- set at 10
A- 3hrs if nap 1 less than 1 hr
3.5hrs if long am nap
Nap 2- if long am- 30-40mins only (up by 4)
If short am- as long as she will sleep but up by 4
BT- between 7-7.30
I was wondering whether you'd like to join the 2-1 chat thread? A good place to post your days and get more eyes on your routine as there are a few of us on that thread at the moment
Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #27
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Thanks so much!! What happens if she does a good AM nap and she won't fall asleep until 4pm...both those scenarios have nap ending at 4.
Today was;
WU: 6.45 (already awake when I woke)
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.05 - 12.10 but again she was resetless and waking constantly in the middle 40 minutes?
^ terrible crying and difficult to keep entertained. Whining and climbing all over me and burying her head in my chest.
Nap 2: 3.38 into the car and didn't fall asleep until I put in cot at home at 3.55; asleep 4.03-4.20 when I woke her? Should I have let her sleep, cut it shorter?
BT: 7.03; asleep by 7.19 but woke unsettled but fell back to sleep by 7.25.
Did I do the right thing tonight?
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It's hard to say what's "right" it's just what work for your baby. What's your gut feeling? Do you think the CN left her OT, UT or just right at BT?
Not sure what the fussing in the middle of her first nap is all about...discomfort? Could you run with it for a few more days and see if she settles as it's overall a good nap.
Am I right that she self settles for sleep?
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I know, I just don't seem to have any gut instinct what-so-ever. Never have which has made my parenting and sleep journey really tough...
The same thing happened for first nap today except it happened the entire duration after the first 40 minutes.
WU: ?
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 9.55; 10.03-10.41. ~11.05 ~11.55.
^^ very restless. Eyes were closed majority of nap but hands playing with comforter tag, rolling around, dropped thumb and seemed asleep then started sucking again.
Nap 2: 3.17; 3.30-4.00
^^ seemed very tired, crying and clingy and wouldn't be put down.
BT: 6.55 into bed; 7.22 asleep but woke a few moments later and did the same as she does during the first nap!!!
NW: woke at 8.00. Difficulty settling again.
^^ terrible mantra crying, rolling around from PD but couldn't settle. I'm going to go with OT but I could be wrong...
So she needs to be in bed at 6.30 for BT at 7.00?
Start second nap after 3hrs and let her sleep?
Very confused... Should I keep going like this?
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Hmmm ...That sounds like she's having trouble getting to extending for first nap and then getting OT the rest of the day as first nap is so broken.
But whether the first nap restlessness is OT or UT is hard to say! Does she seem tired by 10? If so, my guess would be to try the nap 15 mins earlier and see how it goes, if she seems quite awake by first nap time, maybe try the nap 15 mins later? I think it's going to be trial and error to work it out but my gut feeling, given her age and that she is waking after 1 sleep cycle..would be to try the nap 15mins later if you think she'd make it to a later am nap.
If you're aiming for long am/short pm, I'd keep with 2nd nap after 3.5A time and give the 30 mins only and just try to sort out first nap. If we change too much at once it gets confusing as to what is happening!
At the end of the day, she seems to need 3.5hrs A time sometimes before she goes to sleep. I'd aim for that, so if you get a 4pm end to nap, try for a 7.30 BT (into bed maybe 7.15?)
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Just had another thought..how do you know she is so restless for the middle 40mins of the nap? Are you having to resettle her and sit with her? Or are you watching on a video monitor? If she's not needing you to resettle her, could she just be in a light sleep phase of her nap and the 10.00 start is actually ok?
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I have a video monitor on her but it seems that she never enters deep sleep again so when I do get her up, she's not very rested and seems tired well before 3.5hrs.
She slept through last night until around 6.40/7.00, not sure but I don't like her crying/screaming at bedtime :(
Today:
Nap 1: 10.00-12.00 but I'd say most of that time was spent resting rather than sleeping solidy, if that makes sense.
Nap 2: 3.15; cried on put down and shortly after but asleep 3.25-3.55 awake and unhappy but I got her up...
BT: should I be aiming to have her asleep by 7.00?
ETA: went for 6.50 PD into bed; screamed when I put into sleeping bag and into bed and took until 7.15 to fall asleep but at least she didn't cry like last night.
Am I doing something wrong?
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I'm honestly not sure, sorry.
The 2nd nap & possibly BT too sounds OT, which is funny as 3.5hrs A time after a 2hr nap was working quite recently...
So here are some options......
1) If she's going down happily for 10am nap & waking happy but you don't think she's sleeping deeply, my first thing to try would be more activity/play before the nap if possible & see if it's a case of right A time but not enough activity.
If she's getting plenty of playtime pre nap, or that doesn't work, maybe try pushing nap a little later (just by 15mins or so to start) and see if that helps
2) alternatively you could keep the 10am nap and do less A time before 2nd nap (e.g. Back to 3hrs) but my feeling is that you're not happy with how she's sleeping in the morning and want to try to tweak that first.
What do you think?
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Copying from 2-1 chat to have everything together!
Labrodyk...Just Replied to your other thread but if she is struggling since capping pm nap at 30 mins, could you go back to a 40-45min nap then?
Also, if she's falling asleep earlier & really tired at home by 10, maybe she would do better on an earlier first nap e.g. 9.30-10ish but you might only get a short nap then and need a longer pm nap, probably starting around 1pm, which clashes with pick up ::). You could try it on non-kindy days though and see if better sleep on the 5 days of no pre-school can compensate for more broken sleep on only 2 days?
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Hi SM! How are you!?
Thanks for copying, I was checking both threads to see if anyone had any tips.
Ok, so today was a BIT of a nightmare and is why i've always been hesitant to cap the first nap. It seems to work ok when we are out and about and naturally the nap is short but when I'm home I'm so nervous of waking her. Mainly due to the fact that I then have to cross my fingers REALLY hard and pray that I get a second nap of any decent length.
She managed not to fall asleep in the car on kindy drop off this morning which was a miracle. I did go to my mum's house which is closer and try to put her down there but she wouldn't have a bar of it and only slept 30 minutes and woke crying after PD at 10am. Unforunately I then only got another barely 40 minutes after a little over 3hr A. BT was then just a complete mess and I ended up sitting in her room patting her mattress until she was asleep (after quite a long cuddle but she wouldn't fall asleep in my arms).
WU: 6.40
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.15-10.45, woke crying. This could have been purely based on not being in her own bed etc.
Nap 2: 1.45; 2.00-2.40 perhaps?
BT: 6.08; screaming hysterically. Tried to listen and respond accordingly and I went and cuddled then sat with her until asleep which didn't take too long.
I thought perhaps if I got an okay nap after a decent nap from 10 I could maybe pull back the second nap to 3hrs A in the hope that she then pulls a short nap anyway so it wouldn't really matter about waking her? If she slept longer then just wake her by 4 and have her in bed at the 3.5hr mark to be asleep by 4hrs A?
Sorry if that's confusing, just feeling my confidence shot a little bit. Today she was SO happy and ate really well but she's like that - totally deceiving. Grumpy when she's seemingly had some sleep but then awake and alert when she hasn't had any. Until it's time for sleep and she loses the plot!
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Oh they do like to confuse us don't they?
It does sound like she's doing better naps on the long am/short pm route & I was going to suggest what you just wrote so
Wu ?
OOB 7
Nap 1 10-(hopefully 12?)
A:3hrs
Nap 2: 3- trial and error on length!
BT: 7/7.30 depending on nap length
That's a bit vague too, isn't it?!
I was thinking about the video monitor thing and I would try not to worry about it too much. If you didn't have it and just put her down for a nap and heard nothing from her until 12, you would assume she had slept a good 2hrs nap. Just go with it I think.
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Thanks SM!
This morning I screamed and yelled in the car to stop her falling asleep only to have her muck around when I put into cot at home at 10.00. Fell asleep just after but woke at 10.40 so maybe 30 minutes max - rolled around, sat up until 11.20. Given I'll only be able to get 30-40 minutes of I'm lucky in the car this afternoon I might have to do a SEBT tonight :(
I thought she'd have a great sleep this morning so I could do a car nap for the afternoon sleep but...no. That would be too hard for my miss.
Eta: trying to force her to stay awake in the am in the car is probably not going to work :(
All her A's today there has not been a HINT of a tired cue. BT tonight (except for he massive black circles under her eyes), looked like she could have stayed up for hours and hours; crawling around, playing.
WU: 6.30 at the latest ?
Oob: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.10-10.40ish. OOB 11.20
Nap 2
BT: 6.03; 6.43!!
^ terrible crying/shrieking when I took to room and into bed. Lasted about 30 seconds but took some considerable time to fall asleep. I think she was falling asleep in my arms and woke when I lay her down :(
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Did she completely refuse a 2nd nap? Sounds like a difficult day & BT :( Hope tomorrow goes better xxx
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Difficult is an understatement but yes, really hoping I can try and stick to our plan tomorrow! For the sleep times you mentioned should they be the times she closes her eyes? BT in particular, depending on nap length, should that be eyes shut at 7/7.30 or into bed at 7, asleep by 7.30? Just a bit confused there.
Oops, erased my own post! No, she didn't refuse the second nap but whether it was 30 or 40 minutes starting at 1.30 PD, asleep 1.40 and then awake 2.30 at the latest (I had a nap and woke up and she was already awake)...
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Probably eyes closed .. How long does she take to go to sleep? My DD only needs a short WD so I put her down at 7.25 for a 7.30 BT but if your DD needs longer to settle then you might need to put her down 15-20 mins before sleep time.
The 7/7.30 is to give a bedtime "window" depending on when her 2nd nap ends.
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See, I've never known because she takes considerable differences every single night because our days are so different. So ideally, if she had a nap at 10.00-12.00 then 3-3.40 or even 4, if I was aiming for BT at 7.30 she'd need be in bed at 7.10 or even 7.00?
Last night was 40 minutes and that was OT, but not unusual even after a good nap.
Today; what do you think? Especially bedtime?
WU: 6.40
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.10-12.10 with that massive awake section in the middle but tried to ignore it.
Nap 2: 2.35 as we were late getting home. Not asleep until close to 3.50-4.20. Went down and woke crying.
BT: 7.10; 7.40 asleep
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The 2nd nap looks like it might have been UT/OT ie not tired enough after 2hr30 A time and then not settling from less stimulation but then OT when finally slept. I would try no less than 3hrs A time for 2nd nap.
Re Settling for BT- is she upset when she takes up to 30mins to settle? If not then maybe she just needs a long time to get to sleep so 7-7.10 for a 7.30 asleep time might be ok
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My bad on the typo! PD for that second nap was at 3.40 so 3hr 25 and she was screaming so I'm going to go with OT...
She was upset last night when I went to her room and put sleeping bag on her (which is the new normal for some reason!). And when I lay her down she cried but she just lay there sucking her thumb.
WU was 6.30 or earlier this morning.
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Hi SM! How are you and your kidlets going?
Could you please give me another hand? We had those couple of days of long 2hr morning naps with short PM nap and then it all fell to pieces and I've been trying to get back on track since. The last few days have just been two 30-40 minute naps and bedtime has been horrible. Tonight she went down screaming her lungs out so I went back and cuddled until calm and stayed with her but she cried on and off for over an hour :( The bedtime screaming is new but I think it's accumulated OT versus UT surely.
We've been doing the nap at 10.00 - whenever but it's now so short and not restorative. I thought I'd try pushing her a bit but she wakes up so miserable and seems unhappy during A unless I'm constantly interacting with her and forcing her to be interested in things.
I can't see any teeth but she's sucking her thumb ALL day and falling asleep in the car regularly. WU has crept a little earlier but she's always been so inconsistent so not sure if that's a sign of morning A push or not...
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Today I pushed her a little from 10.00-10.20. Despite being awake from 6, she only slept 35-40 minutes...
WU: 6.00
Nap 1: 10.20; 10.25/30-11.06. Tried to resettle until 12.00. She wasn't happy like she usually is, very quiet but never fell back to sleep. Even me to rocking didn't work :(
Nap 2: in the car from 2pm but didn't fall asleep until 3.00.
What am I doing wrong? I'll try sticking to 10.20am PD for a few days and see what happens.
How should I play the rest of the day?
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Hi I know Scottishmummy has been helping you out. She's not around for a few days so I will try and see what I can do.
I haven't time to read right back so apologies if I go over anything you've tried already! How old is she now?
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Hi Lolsyb1982! Thanks so much for lending a hand, appreciate it. My daughter is ALMOST 11mo (on the 7th Sept). She's been a bit of a mystery from day 1.
The rest of our day went like:
Nap 2: 3.00-3.40 (car)
BT: 6.50; asleep by 7.05.
I have a feeling yesterday, her afternoon nap ended well before 3.40 (perhaps 2.50/3pm) thus was so OT by PD just before 7pm.
I know her A times are on the short side but I've been having difficulty as she is quite miserable in the morning and does have a tendency to fall asleep in the car hours before her 10am nap time. I then have kindy pick up and drop off two days a week which I leave at 8.30 and it's an hour+ round trip. Afternoon is the same but I have to leave home by 2.30pm so we've been struggling with both the long AM, short PM as well as the short AM, long PM. We've been leaning more towards long AM mainly because I don't seem to be able to get a longer PM nap even if the AM is really short, plus kindy limits this.
Sorry for the essay.
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Going out in the car is always tricky as most lo's will nod off before their usual nap time. How many days do you have to do the kindy drop off/pick up?
I think it does sound like she needs an A push before that first nap. I know you say she acts miserable but if she's only napping 40 mins I would say she was UT still.
My DD2 acts miserable about an hour before her nap sometimes but I just push her on until her A time regardless as I know if i put her down early she'll short nap.
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hmmm....seems like we can't go anywhere any more because she just doesn't sleep long enough anywhere and by the end of the day is a screaming mess. I just feel so trapped and wonder why we bother doing anything fun because it always ends up with us all in tears :(
Today:
WU: 6.00?
OOB: 7.30! (My 4yo was sick all through the night and whilst I heard Audrey call out we all fell back to sleep).
Nap 1: 10.45-11.15 in the car. We were driving for a good 1.5hrs on the highway and she still only slept this amount.
Nap 2: 2.50-3.10 in the pram. Took my husband ages to rock and walk around with the pram until she finally fell asleep but woke 20 minutes later :(
Cried the whole 1hr journey home.
BT: 6.10; screamed and mantra screamed until 6.30pm.
I need to be able to get out with our older son and enjoy our weekends. I can't have her sleeping 50 minutes all day and then short napping whilst at home!
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We never get good naps when we're out for the day. With dd1 I was obsessed with good naps and so wouldn't go anywhere but 2nd time around I've realised life is more than being stuck indoors getting a baby to sleep and just accept we'll have bad sleep on those days.
On the odd occasion if you want a day out with your DS could you leave DD at home with anybody so that you can fully enjoy your day and not have to stress about naps etc?
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Hi!
Sorry for my absence...
I'd agree with Lauren about trying fur an A time push but those out & about naps look a bit OT or OS then crashing but OT overall by end of the day. My DD also needs to be at home usually to take a decent nap.
When are you next at home & could try for a routine again? I think your option now would either be to try for a later, longer morning nap at home (starting 10.30 maybe) and a later shorter pm CN...or trying for a short morning CN and if you want to get out and then an early afternoon long nap at home.
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Hi Lauren & SM!
Thank you for your help and reassurance about getting out and about.
Today we were at home and I did a nap at PD at 10.30. I think she was asleep fairly quickly by 10.35. She woke and was awake from 11.50-12.10 but fell back to sleep until 12.50.
We went out bike riding and I tried again at 4.10 but clearly I'm not used to long naps because that wasn't the right thing to do.... Not sure what to expect or how to play the afternoon. My trial and error so far on how short and how late to do the CN isn't going so well. also unsure of that middle A and how to incorporate it if she does have a good nap...
What would be appropriate at this age based on first nap duration and finishing time?
WU: 6.20, possibly earlier
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.30; 10.35-12.50
Nap 2: 4.10; 4.40/45-5.00 (woke her)
BT: 7.04; asleep 7.30.
^^ is this okay or should I have put down a bit later? She didn't cry...
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Hi this is our routine if it helps
Wu 6
Nap 10.15-11.45
Nap 3.45ish but usually have to APOP this in car etc for 20 mins as she fights it.
BT 7
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Labrodyk- today's routine looks pretty good to me. After such a long morning nap, about 15-20min just before 5 & a 7pm BT to be asleep by 7.30 (easily) is great.
I think a 4hr A time after a long morning nap is pretty typical at this age & stage of the 2-1 transition.
Now whether she'll recreate it is another question!
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Lauren - thank you so much, that's really helpful.
Now whether she'll recreate it is another question!
Yes...this is our problem! I'll try again today.
That first nap yesterday she was awake from 11.50-12.10 before falling asleep again; is that ok? I could have easily gotten her up and then the day wouldn't have been so fabulous.
We also had a big scream/call out at 11.30 and then again at midnight. She was asleep the first time I think and went back to sleep quickly but I fell back asleep the second time so not sure. How long she was awake!
^^^ ok, worst mother ever. This wake was probably from the massive vomit I found her in this morning. I feel terrible :(
So today played out as;
WU: 6.20 or earlier
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.30; asleep shortly after - 12.00
Nap 2: 3.40; not sure but she woke at 4.24
BT: 7.00, 7.30 asleep
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Sorry she was unwell in the night, you can't help it if she went back to sleep after being sick..it's happened to all of us.
Another pretty good looking day :)
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Is 10.5 hours ONS long enough? She was awake by 6 this morning? Just seems a long time to keep her entertained given she's upset most of the first A time. I'm not getting her OOB until 7.
She only managed a 1hr20min nap this morning which I thought should have been a little longer given how hard I had to work to keep her awake and happy!?
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Just popped on for some moral support, we only got a 1hr nap yesterday after a very grumpy morning and a 4hr 20 A (WU 5:40) but OOB for 3hr 30, and we only got a 10.5 hr night he's currently bumping round the cot and playing! I think the tiredness in the morning is part of the transition as they are so used to sleeping early.
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Thank you so much for your support!! I just can't believe she won't nap longer! And this afternoon we were out and she wouldn't sleep in the pram, too wired on the drive home to nap and fell asleep at 4.20 in her cot. Woke her at 4.50. Poor poppet has massive dark circles under her eyes :(
I guess we just have to hang in there? Only I know that Thursday Friday are our kindy days and we'll be off routine again until the weekend. So hard.
Big hugs to you too, I'm so tired, I can't imagine how the bubs feel!!
So today went like:
WU: 6.10
Nap 1: 10.25; 10.30-11.05 then 11.10-11.53 but a bit unsettled in between (of course, without monitor I wouldn't know...)
Nap 2: She was cranky and tired from 3hrs20 A. Tried to settle in pram (wouldn't), Tried to settle in car (wouldn't). Got home and took 10 minutes in her cot to fall asleep 4.20-4.50
BT: 7.00; 7.23 asleep.
Since starting this routine the last few days Audrey positively screams the house down after her bath and will not go to DH. I was trying to sort out Mr4 (who also won't let DH do anything regarding bedtime...) and I ran into the living room to find Audrey with tears pouring down her face refusing to drink but obviously hungry. I picked her up and she grabbed the bottle and smashed it to empty in minutes. Is this the routine change? OT so only wants Mum? Or SA in spades but only at night. When DH walks through the door she can't get enough of him and then something switches and she goes mental.
I'm feeling really drained and torn.
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Wednesday
WU: 6.20 awake...
OOB: 7.30. I'm sick and fell back to sleep but she wasn't as grumpy during first A so not sure if she did too...
Nap 1: 10.30; 10-37-12.12. Fell back to sleep briefly but awake properly from 12.15
Nap 2: This was really difficult again and I ended up putting her down around 3.40; asleep 3.55-4.20 when I woke her up.
BT: 6.50;
The exact same thing happened at bath and bedtime routine again with hubby. Even with me when I eventually came and gave her the bottle, if I'm not holding her she starts positively SCREAMING like i'm killing her so I assume she's really tired or is something else going on here? After a 30 minute nap, should PD be at the 2hr mark? Or if she's asleep before 4 should I be letting her sleep as long as she wants? I'm SO confused...
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Hi!
Sorry I've not been in for a couple of days.
Yes there might be some OT by BT after only a short 2nd nap. The first day she started a nap at 10.30, she slept until almost 1pm then managed 4hrs A time and a v short CN to get to BT.
Her typical pattern now though looks like sleeping 10.30-12ish so maybe she needs less A time and a longer 2nd nap?
I'd try a 2nd nap around 3-3.30pm if you can (or whenever you get home from kindy on those days) for 1 full sleep cycle (I think that's 40-45 mins for her?) and try to keep BT at 7pm.
Re nights- my DD is also only doing around a 10.5hr night on 2nap days at the moment. I know it is within the average range of night sleep for her age, but 11hrs is what she needs I think, but think I might have to accept a shorter night for now as part of this transition process.
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Don't apologize, I owe you so much for helping me!!
Ok, I'll try a little longer for the 2nd nap and earlier if she does shorter than 2hrs sleep.
BT is so damn tricky and I never know when to actually put her down to have her asleep. She's so unpredictable. Should I just stick with PD at 7.00 after 40 minutes from 3.00/3.30? Or earlier to have asleep by 7.00. How much earlier is the question. Of late it's been anywhere from 20-40 minutes and not necessarily taking longer after a shorter A - she's totally unpredictable but I don't want her OT either.
We were at my mum's today as it's closer to Kindy. She has to be OT because the second half of her nap she was never really asleep again properly.
Wu: 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.22; 10.28-11.07, constantly waking and sucking thumb until 11.45 awake completely.
Nap 2: 2.45/50 - 3.30 broken when stopping/starting car
BT: 6.55; screaming and crying from 7.00. Sat and patted mattress 7.12-7.18 when she fell asleep.
AGAIN tonight! Absolutely lost the plot during bath time, won't let hubby feed her or hold her or be near her. She only wants me :( Which is completely draining as does my 4yo...
I'm going out this weekend and won't be home, I'm starting to freak out! Do I need to adjust her routine? Is this routine related because it wasn't happening before I pushed her!
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Big hugs, you sound very stressed out. It's hard when they're upset and you don't know why.
If you feel she's getting OT, maybe move first nap earlier again? And a 2nd nap around 3hrs after waking from first, in cot if possible?
Sounds like she might have got OT and needs a catch up before pushing it all later again?
Not sure what to suggest re BT, it looked like in cot for 7 to be asleep by 7.30 used to work but if you feel she's OT on any day, you might want to try 6.30-45 to be asleep by 7?
I hope you can enjoy your weekend away. I always worry when I leave my 2 but their dad or grandparents actually cope surprisingly well when I'm not there ;)
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I'm sorry, I know I sound like a sleep deprived lunatic :'(
I'm doing the best I can - I have no idea what's wrong with her and I'm just plodding along trying to do what I think is best but always second guessing myself because the same nap time etc yields completely different results day after day.
Today:
WU: 6.30-7.00 somewhere.
Nap 1: 9.45 in car until 10.20
Nap 2: 12.50; asleep 1.10 woke at 2.30
BT: 6.00. Screamed when I left the room but asleep by 6.30.
Hubby wasn't home so she happily drank her bottle from me but some major SA kicks in around 5pm for some odd reason when she's not phased at all. We went to a play center and she disappeared (I was out of her view, but I could see her!) for ages. Well over 1/2 an hour playing with other children.
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No need to apologise, I get stressed too when naps don't work out & routine is off and I don't know what I'm doing
Looks like EBT was a good call tonight, hope you get a long night
Not sure about the 5pm SA..worse due to hunger? Tiredness? Or just "witching hour"?
Hope you have a relaxing wkend away
Xxx
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Hello SM! I hope your family is feeling better and your mum is helping out a bit :)
These are our last few days...she's still funny in the evenings with hubby after dinner and bath. Early bedtimes are still bringing the same wakeup of 6am or earlier but I'm having difficulty with the timing and duration of the second nap. We haven't been consistent with timings because SHE is so inconsistent. She fights car naps now too which is making things SUPER hard.
Saturday
WU: 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.30-12.20
Nap 2: 3.40; not asleep until 4.30-4.45.
BT: 7.00; asleep 7.15 DH says but he didn't check monitor so could have been later
Sunday
WU: 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.30; 10.35-12.00
Nap 2: 3.20; asleep 3.40-4.20
BT: 7.20; not asleep until 8!
Monday
WU: 6.15
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.35; 10.40-12.07; dozed until OOB at 12.20
Nap 2:
--> attempt 1: into car at 3.40-4.00. no sleep
--> attempt 2: cot at 4.00; asleep 4.20-4.40
BT: 7.00; asleep 7.30
Tuesday
WU: 5.55! :-\
Nap 1: 10.30; 10.35-
I don't know if there's anything to improve on or a way to get her to sleep longer than 10.5hrs but we'll keep winging it. We're definitely in 2-1...I HATE this transition almost as much as 1-0. lol
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Yes you're definitely in the 2-1! I found the 2-1 harder than the 1-0 with dd1!
It looks like she needs around 4hrs after her first nap so the times when you've tried to get her down earlier she's fighting it. You might find a car nap easy if you do it that bit later.
I think 10.5hrs ons is pretty common when going through a transition so would keep going as you are for now and if it drops to less than that then some tweaking may need to be done.
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Thank you! It truly is a terrible transition, I hate it.
Unfortunately, I'm not having much luck with car naps because I'm not in the car that late in the day :( Mr 4 eats at 5 so I lose my cooking time although I have been trying to do this earlier in the day but things are getting crazy busy now we're able to get out a little more.
So our day ended up as the below and I'm not sure how to approach the 2nd nap and bedtime - how long and how late. She was very grumpy when out once we reached the 3.5hr mark but struggled to fall asleep although it seems she really wanted to :(
Tuesday
WU: 5.55! :-\
Nap 1: 10.30; 10.35-12.35
Nap 2:
--> in car from 4.00-4.20, no sleep.
--> in cot from 4.20; asleep 4.30 but I woke at 4.50
She won't go to DH anytime from after dinner, lol. She wants to be attached to me... She was rubbing eyes from 5.30pm and through bath then after bottle she still wouldn't leave me and cried if I moved even a little bit!
BT: 7.00; rolling around and chatting but asleep 7.25pm.
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Yes it's a tricky time of the day isn't it.
I would say after a 20 min nap she would need about 3hr A to bed so it depends what time you would like her BT to be as to when the nap should finish.
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Makes it trickier when the 4yo still falls asleep without fail by 4pm and then I have a sleeping preschooler and a wide awake baby! :o
At present A's second nap doesn't even START until after 4/4.30 which is past the 3hr A for a 7pm bedtime (asleep by 7.30). Hmmm, so hard to know what to do.
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Yes I know all too well about the toddler falling asleep (and then awake until 9pm)
How do you think she would handle a 10min nap at 4.30 and then bed at 7?
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I can most definitely try it, I'm just so nervous of making her OT, especially at BT because she then generally needs me to sit with her and pat the mattress until she's asleep.
Tomorrow will be a bit odd because DS has a swimming assessment at 11.30 (annoyingly!) so will have to be a short AM long PM if she'll do it...
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Or you could just go with a later BT and accept a longer day until she drops the 2nd nap?
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She does seem to need a longer wind down at night though. And it doesn't seem to matter if she goes to bed later, she doesn't tack on but rather wakes at the same time of 6 or earlier.
I might stick with the 20 minutes for the moment. If she goes down without crying, SS with her thumb and is asleep by 7.30 then that's pretty good isn't it? If I made bedtime later we could be cutting our nights super short..
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Yes 7.30-6 seems perfectly fine to me with nearly 2.5hr daytime sleep :)
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Thanks Lauren! this is where it's getting tricky because today was a random day of 2 hours first nap but mostly she's only doing a first nap of 1hr20/1.5hrs at most so I have been doing the second nap at 3/3.5 A for one sleep cycle (as SM suggested). She does need a longer A to BT after 40 minutes so will keep an eye on her.
Thanks for helping. x
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Hi!
Great advice from Lauren :) I would just add..it looks like, if she takes a 2hr morning nap (finishing 12.30ish) then a 4hr A time, 2nd nap around 4.30 for 15-20 mins and in bed for 7ish asleep by 7.30 seems to work.
If she takes a nap less than 2 hrs (1hr20 or so) I think the 2nd nap falls more like 3.30ish.I'd suggested 1 sleep cycle then as less (e.g. 30 mins) seemed to lead to OT...but the 40mins seemed to give you IT and later BT! I suppose it's up to you which you feel A can handle better.
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Thank you SO much Lauren & SM, you ladies are amazing.
Now, I'm not sure what happened tonight but she did the whole scream if I put her down business except it continued from 6 until bedtime. when I was getting her changed she started on a massive screaming fit that took me ages to calm her down from. In the end I gave her a bottle in her room and just held her and tried to reconnect with her and sang some lullabies. It all seemed so strange and she was asleep in 10 minutes despite the afternoon nap. I can't understand how 40 minutes gives me UT but 1hr30/40 gives me OT, which is what I assume it is? I'm wondering if the night where she wasn't asleep until 8pm was OT too as she did the same screaming fit except we were in the car - could she have been OT but then got a second wind?
WU: 6.15
Nap 1: 10.20-10.47 in the car
Nap 2: 1.35; 1.40-3.20 (awake briefly at 2.50 and then a little restless until she woke properly)
BT: screaming from 6pm. Cuddled and sang, gave bottle in dark bedroom put into cot at 6.50; 7.00 asleep.
We have kindy, errands, big car trips and doctors appointments the next few days so it's going to get bumpy. Then my parents have both kids from saturday-monday as we head away for our wedding anniversary. Permission to freak out? lol
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Just throwing this out there but could the screaming be a developmental thing? I just ask as my DD is almost exactly the same age and is resisting BT right now, which is usually a sign of a leap for us....or just could be a routine thing..A is more used to long am-short pm so upset by change? Or just one of those "who knows?" Baby things :)
Good luck for the next few days and enjoy your anniversary weekend away xxx
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I don't know what's up with A but it's starting to upset me and her. I've tried to comfort her but she is pretty miserable so it's making it really hard to read her properly and know what she wants. She seems really hungry too, she doesn't want much solids but wants more and more milk.
Today wasn't so flash hot...
WU: 6.ish
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.00-10.30 car
Nap 2: 12.50; 1.10-1.50
I only put her down because she was so miserable and upset and showing constant tired signs!
BT: 5.30. Okay to put down but had to do WI/WO and sat patting mattress. Asleep 6.20.
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Poor thing ..is she getting sick or teething? I remember that really upsetting her a while ago? Those short naps might be from whatever is disrupting her..but if you feel she's getting OT follow her cues as best you can xxx
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Poor thing is right...I'm not quite sure.
She woke screaming from 11.30 and took a few wi/WO and reassurance to get her back to sleep - about an hour? She kept wanting to roll onto her tummy which is unusual for her so I wonder if teeth are bother her, although I can't see anything.
She managed to stay awake all the way back from Kindy and we had a big play outside before morning nap at 10.30; she fell asleep after 10 minutes so we'll see what she does but given the NW, I suspect she may have slept in a little later than normal.
Yes, so she woke at the 30 minute mark and was a bit whingy and appeared to go back to sleep but then she just spent the next hour moaning and sucking her thumb, then crying out at 12:12pm.
She seems to be thumb sucking 90% of the day at the moment... She'll find a tag on a toy and start sucking her thumb so I took away all the soft toys. Then yesterday she found a small tag inside my boots and proceeded to rub it between her fingers and suck her thumb! LOL.
Nap 2: 3.45-4.15 in the car
BT: 7.10; 7.35.
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It does sound like possible teething to me...could it be the start of the 1yo molars early? I seem to remember DS being fussy for a while before they appeared for him.