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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: MrsJ80 on September 08, 2016, 09:49:54 am

Title: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 08, 2016, 09:49:54 am
Hi Everyone,

My lg is 17mths and has never self soothed. She is always rocked to sleep by me walking around her room, sometimes singing to her or even taken for a drive in the car if she's struggling to drop off. She's also started getting a lot worse at night, waking every hour or so and will only settle if I let her play with my hair or lay with her. Every time I've started to try and change things one of us gets ill so I've stopped.

I'm really at a loss of how to change things. I've tried white noise and a comforter for months but she's just not interested - she is extremely strong willed!

Bedtime routine consists of dinner at 5pm, quiet play at 6pm, milk, cuddles and night garden at 6:30pm. Daddy takes her for a bath just before 7pm. Bath time can sometimes be a little boisterous in my opinion but Daddy disagrees and this just leads to arguments. I then take over from about 7:30pm and on a good day she's asleep by 7:50pm. On a bad day it can be anywhere from 10pm-11pm unless I've given in and taken her for a drive. I've tried reading books but she's just not interested and walks off.

I'm feeling extremely run down with the lack of sleep and the constant colds. I even feel resentful towards hubby because he can go to bed when he likes and doesn't have to get up in the night!

Does anyone have any advice on how to get her to go to sleep by herself? I'm even considering a sleep consultant I'm that desperate! X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 09, 2016, 14:12:53 pm
So I spoke to my health visitor and she suggested to use the gradual withdrawal method for naps, bedtime & night wakings. I'm happy to do this for naps and bedtime but it feels a little harsh for middle of the night too as lg always wants to be picked up. HV advised not to pick up at all but this tugs on my heart strings just thinking about it! 😢  Is she right? 😦
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: lolsyb1982 on September 09, 2016, 14:22:09 pm
GW is a great method for a LO who has never gone to sleep independently. I would say you need to keep to the same method for all three to be consistent (which is key) otherwise it's sending confusing signals to her and she'll think why can't I be picked up now but I can then IYKWIM.

Are these frequent NW a new thing? There is a big sleep regression that happens around 18 months which could be making things worse. I'm not sure if there's a sticky on it somewhere, I'll have a look.
Does she have her canines/molars yet? Teething really disrupts their sleep around this age.

How long does she nap for during the day?
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 09, 2016, 17:56:35 pm
She's never been a great sleeper but up until recently she was only waking several times a night and was quite easy to pick up, hold for a bit and then put back down. She was ill a few weeks ago and it's gone downhill from there really. I stopped breastfeeding about 6 weeks ago so that was a big change for her too but when it comes to bedtime she is actually asking to go in her cot but she just messes about when I put her in and then I get frustrated.

Right...ok. So no picking up at a all at naps, bedtime or in the night? Am I allowed to touch her at all? Like rub her back or shush her?

Oh and she naps for about 1.5-2hrs from about 10:45am/11am. The bottom canines have been coming through and I have wondered if that's a lot of the problem as well as sleep regression. The top ones are through and the bottom ones are more or less through. She's back to her normal happy self anyway after the illness so I'm assuming they're not bothering her anymore. X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: lolsyb1982 on September 09, 2016, 18:59:49 pm
Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

Here is a link which talks about GW and how to go about it. If she's used to being held/patted etc you would need to wean this gradually and then once she doesn't need you touching her to fall asleep you would sit next to her bed/cot and then over time start moving away and towards the door.

Canines caused months of chaos with my dd1!
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 09, 2016, 19:10:42 pm
Thank you. I've read that link a few times but I'm still at a loss. She's asleep now but it didn't go well. She asked to go in her cot so I put her in and sat in the chair and within 4mins she was sobbing like I'd never heard her before. I lasted 25mins by which time I was crying too & I was worried she would make herself sick so I picked her up, cuddled her and she went straight to sleep. So what now? Do I just keep trying?

I can't reach her too well in her cot and to maintain a touch on her I'd have to keep leaning over to her which is a killer on my back. Should we turn her cot into a cotbed or would that lead to more problems? X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: lolsyb1982 on September 09, 2016, 19:49:41 pm
Hugs lovely. I don't have any actual BTDT experience of GW so hopefully someone who does will post but even with gentle sleep methods there will likely be some tears for a few days. You're changing what she's used to and she won't like it.

I wouldn't change her bed to a cotbed if she's not trying to get out as that can cause more problems!
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 09, 2016, 20:01:26 pm
Yeah that's what I thought, I've got enough of those at the moment! Thing is, if I stand over her cot there's no tears, if I sit in the chair she hates it. I can actually leave the room for 20mins and she'll be fine talking to herself until she starts crying.

I'm so confused now, tired and emotional. I feel terrible for doing that to her.

I'll see what happens tonight. I'll have to keep putting her back in her cot until she gets the message. I can't keep sleeping with her until she nods off, it's not good quality sleep for either of us. Thank you for listening. Xx
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 09, 2016, 20:09:40 pm
Hey there, I have used GW several times with DS1 and it's a slow process but is worth persevering with.

I used to sit next to the cot with hand on his, then after a couple of days just hand next to his on the mattress, then progress to back to cot and you get my drift. I used my voice a lot just talking through what's happening, so I'd say it's time for sleep now mummy will stay, it's ok to fall asleep now. If he cried I'd lean in give a kiss and a little rub of back or face then say lay down its sleep time and basically repeat repeat.

There will be crying but as long as you stay there and stay calm it will stop. If you need to cuddle pick up until calmed then repeat again.

What does her day look like in EAS format?xx
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 09, 2016, 20:55:13 pm
6-7am. Wake up
Breakfast within 10-15mins of waking up
She'll then be ready for her nap between 10:30am/11:30am
She will sleep approx 1.5hrs - 2hrs.
1pm ish. Lunch
5pm Dinner
She has quiet play after dinner while I tidy up the kitchen and daddy has a shower
6:30pm. Milk and a cuddle while watching night garden. She won't always sit in my nap, she likes to wander around.
6:50pm/7pm Bath & teeth
7:20pm Say night night to things, kiss goodnight and I had been rocking and singing to sleep (Always me, never Daddy because I use to breastfeed to sleep and it's the habit we just got into).

When she wakes in the night I sit in the chair and hold her until she falls back to sleep then put her back in her cot. This has only been in the last few weeks since she was ill and canines started. I had been sleeping with her while this was going on so we all got some sleep but I don't want to keep doing that as I'm not getting a good quality sleep and neither is she. Before that I would just hold her for a few minutes and then lay her back in her cot. X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 10, 2016, 20:06:11 pm
I'd prob be aiming to get that nap to be nearer to the middle of her day so 11.30 would be good do her day is balanced.

I think you prob needs to start GW as she is used to you getting her to sleep so therefore struggles to transition at night alone x

Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Katet on September 10, 2016, 22:19:55 pm
I did GW with both mine & rather than taking her out of the cot & cuddling, I'd have my hand through the rails & use my voice, so I'd (depending on the child) stroke their hair or pat their torso. If like DS2 who stood up I'd lean into him standing on the other side of the cot. I could put a chair beside the cot & poke my arm though so they could always feel my comfort until they fell asleep & even now at 11yo & 13yo when they are nervous about something (like a GF today) I will sit with them at bedtime (last night) & stroke their hair or back (depending on child)
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 12, 2016, 18:06:41 pm
I've found before if I move her nap later she has a terrible nap and keeps waking up.

Her cot bars are quite wide so I'm unable to put my arm through! If only we knew these things when buying them! Haha!

Last night it took 2hrs for her to fall asleep. She was happy most of the time in her cot but then it's like a switch was flicked and she was hysterical to the point of nearly being sick. She wasn't happy being held and she wasn't happy being put down. On the plus side though she's only been waking up once in the night. The first 2 nights it took an hour to get her to go back to sleep in her cot without waking up. Last night it only took 15mins. X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 13, 2016, 09:26:49 am
As she gets older it will need to be moved to keep her day equal but you do what works for you.

How was it last night?
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 13, 2016, 15:19:55 pm
Yes I realise that. She's only recently moved to 11am. Sometimes it's later, I go by her really rather than the time.

Last night it took her 1hr 15mins to go to sleep, still in my arms but she's a lot happier being in her cot for longer. She slept 8:45pm to 5:20am, then went back to sleep until 6:40am.

I'm going to try and not pick her up tonight. No matter how calm she is before bedtime when we take her upstairs it's like a switch is flicked and she goes hyper. I'm going to try reading her stories while she's in her cot and see if that calms her down. Last night the longest she laid still was 5 seconds!! X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 13, 2016, 18:05:43 pm
I'd definitely do stories in the room or cot to help set the scene x
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 13, 2016, 20:52:25 pm
I tried stories in her cot and she screamed her head off because she wanted the book! Lol!

So I scrapped that idea. She so nearly fell asleep on her own! She only wanted to be picked up a few times. The last time she was virtually asleep.

I'll try stories tomorrow before I put her in the cot and see if that works. X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 14, 2016, 05:40:59 am
It's just finding something that works lol they are strong willed these monkeys x
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 15, 2016, 21:00:29 pm
Wooooooo hoooooooo!!!

After a week of trying she finally went to sleep on her own!

Such a great feeling  x
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 16, 2016, 06:23:05 am
Well done you and her  :) xx
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 16, 2016, 07:05:38 am
Thank you!

And she slept through! I'm so proud of her. 

Let's hope it continues. X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 16, 2016, 08:39:29 am
Yahey I'm sooooo jealous  ;)

Fingers crossed keep us posted xx
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 17, 2016, 06:11:46 am
Wowzers!

Same again last night. Asleep by herself by 8:40pm and slept all the way through until 6:15am.

I'm hoping it's not a coincidence! X
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 17, 2016, 06:54:41 am
 :) hopefully not x
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 18, 2016, 08:10:24 am
3rd time unlucky! 😫

I held her to sleep in the chair, she was very clingy last night. I'd been out for an hour or so in the afternoon and she was very clingy when I got back. Up in the night too and just wouldn't settle so I put her in our bed. She's got a cough and a sniffle again so I'll let her off 😝 

Try again tonight. 😬
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: Haribo2012 on September 18, 2016, 08:47:54 am
Sometimes there is a regression after some new techniques so keep persisting x
Title: Re: 17mth old doesn't self soothe
Post by: MrsJ80 on September 18, 2016, 14:05:11 pm
Yeah I did think. I'm just going with it 😀  X