BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: murphy76 on October 06, 2016, 04:54:12 am
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Our DS3 is up for the day at 5am again and it's killing us!
His day was normally
WU 6-630am
Nap 12-1
BT 7-715pm
Always had a 12-13 HR day.
For the past week out of nowhere it's now 5am and shouting so loud we can't risk him waking DS1 and DS2 so that's him for the day!
We extended his nap for a few days to 1hr15/30mins to combat OT but still the same 5am starts...
What can we do? He's always been LSN, but surely 23mths is too early to reduce the nap below an hour or even start to drop it?
Help required please!
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Hi there, it could be birthday shenanigans with him being 23 months.
Ds1 had a sleep regression at this age and refused naps etc.
How is he at 5am, chatty, crying,?
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Hi,
5am is crying until we come into the room, then going ballistic with his hands in the air until we take him out and downstairs, lest he wake the rest of the house..
We've tried lengthening his nap but he isn't tired going to bed earlier than 7pm, but it's a vicious circle.
I know these things pass in time, just looking for any way to make it a bit easier between now and then!
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I know quite a few LOs IRL who dropped the nap completely at 24 months, likely there are several on the forums too. It's not unheard of.
Mine didn't drop his nap until just over 2.5yo (I think it was 31 months) but when he did he dropped a 2hr nap to zero over night. Just like that. I'm not saying it was easy, we had tricky sleep for around 6 months and I tried capping his nap etc but eventually realised the answer for him was to keep the long nap and accept the short night (late BT helped to move WU to a more reasonable hour). The drop came when he was poorly, he napped super long 2.5hrs but that was his last nap, the following day no nap. He had some micro naps in the car, yk 5 mins here and there, and a little nap about 2 weeks later when we were both OT and I invited him to nap in bed with me and I was astounded when he accepted the invite. But the real naps had well and truly gone.
I agree that this can be related to the birthday development (every year we have this even at 5yo) but there might be some options to try:
- some people do cap the nap shorter than 1hr and gradually reduce and reduce until it is dropped, even going as short as 10 mins nap per day for a while.
- some LOs need the nap later. Mine was on a 2-4pm nap with 8pm BT and 6am WU. Not saying you have to move all the way to 2pm but shifting the nap by 30 mins later and moving BT 30 mins later could help to shift that WU time. Later BT did not sound attractive to me at all, I liked my Y time from 7pm however we all adapted very quickly and the 8pm BT and 10hr night suddenly switched to 7pm BT (or even earlier) and 12hr night (or 13 occasionally) when that nap went and by then we all liked the 8pm BT but had to adapt back to the 7pm.
I probably wouldn't increase the nap length if your DS was doing well on 1hr but moving it later could help...or capping ten mins shorter.
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Great thanks, there are a few things there to work on.
I think I'll try making his nap that bit later. Could well be on the way to dropping the nap, even if it takes 6mths, or at least capping it, as he is definitely LSN just like DS1.
The later nap also works In with his childcare which is why it's appealing.
All worth a go anyway and hopefully we stumble across the right one!
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Our nap was gone by 30 months and until then it from being a long nap to 45 mins then to 20 mins CN so did take a good 6 months x
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The later nap also works In with his childcare which is why it's appealing.
A good option to try then :) Great that it fits in :)
Good luck!
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I know you can't judge things on one day as it takes a few to see results, but we did it yday and another early start today, but it had me thinking that it does feel like the start of the nap capping with a view to eventually dropping it.
Having been there with DS1 and them both being so similar, this is about the time we started to cut it with him.
I do remember the hellish 6 months while we got it established tho!
Quick question, how do we combat the OT in the first place? Will we go for set nap times still, say 12-1245 as that's close to what he was used to when he did 1 hour, then set bt of 7, and hope the OT just works itself out even though it's a 530-12 midday A time to start the day?
Happy to do something for a week to start, I just know the OT is a toughie for him and everyone so don't want to get in a vicious circle..
Thanks for all your help to date guys, it makes these early starts slightly more bearable knowing help is at hand!
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OK nap capping didn't work for my LO but based on other threads and support I would suggest moving the nap later so in effect you cut the nap time from the beginning of the nap rather than the end.
Slightly later nap should (hopefully) help to combat the EW (naps which come too early for Lo can lead to EW).
Keeping the A time between nap and BT as it is should help to avoid OT before BT.
Rather than set nap 12 - 12.45, I'd try set nap 12.15 - 1.00pm and keep BT 7pm
Really though it's up to you.
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Nap capping in the cot was hard for us DS1 was very grumpy being woken and would take ages to chill out again so we eventually just used to time a nap with a walk or drive so I'd make sure I timed doing my shopping or whatever journey at that time.
It's such a messy phase and if I'm honest (sorry) we had EW for ages but it got closer to 6am which I could cope with.
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Hi guys,
You are right, it's such a messy phase and to be honest just horrible for everyone. There's no pattern at all this week to what he does, and these EWs continue unabated. I am DREADING the time change on Sunday as know he will be awake at 4am, shouting the house down, and that's us started on another bad day.
But regardless I am committed from now (feels a bit pointless with the clock change coming up but anyway) to set nap times of 1215-1pm and bt at 7pm each night. It's going to be a nightmare fortnight at the very least with OT, but we can't give him any longer nap to combat it and moving BT just hasn't worked at all.
I'd been trying all week to push BT to adjust in advance of the clock change and today he woke at 5.05am so upset, so we're at square -1, I still can't believe it.
Anyway, just moaning now, I have a plan so will stick to it and see how things go.
Thanks as ever for all your suggestions!
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If it's any help - moving times for the clock change in 15 min or even 30 min increments didn't really work for my DS. All that happened was that over a long period of time he lost sleep, later bed but still waking early.
What did work was pushing him right over the hour clock change rapidly. I needed to move him 1.5 to 2hrs instead of the 1hr to force his WU time to change. Once his WU time change I moved BT earlier by 15 mins each day to lengthen his night sleep and keep the new WU time.
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That's good to know, thanks.
Here we are again thisorbimg, no problem tho as its expected and I know it'll be 4am tmrw. I'm tempted for DH to stick him in the car and see if he will go over for a bit to at least see if his day can start a bit later? Just tmrw because of the change, any reason not to do that?
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If you can do anything to get his day to start later it's got to be worth a shot.
If it works then it works. If not then you need to start pushing the times to move the day on.
I don't look forward to the clock change even with DS at 5yo. I'll do a 30 min change for 2 days to move him. Much easier than when he was a toddler but still a PITA.
Good luck
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I hate clock change, luckily DS1 didn't wake till 7 this morning so I'll push him till 8pm tonight and hoping DS2 I can force a CN at 5pm. Hoping to get them both to 5.30/6 new time but won't happen lol x
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I've moved DS 30 mins today and set his bedroom clock, his timer lights and one clock in the living room which is now marked with a post-it "DS Time" so we don't get too confused.
The only time he went to bed late he wet the bed so I hope he isn't so OT that happens again. I think he will cope with the 30 mins FX
I find moving all the meal times helps him shift as they are such regular markers in DS's daily routine.
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It seems rather appropriate on Halloween but we have literally created a monster. Night clocks went back we put DS3 down 1 hour later, 8pm, and he slept until 5am (really 6) but 10 hrs and we were v happy. As planned DH took him out in car to try to push the day, said he slept/dozed another 20 odd mins until 615 in total, but was v calm and at least resting in his seat.
Nap was 1215-1 pm in the car, woke him, he was fine.
BT was 730 to reflect the later start.
This morning? 430am, the earliest waking in history in his short life!
We just feel clueless. DH has him in the car now and plan on getting him sleep until 6am, but this is the last morning of this as back to work tnrw.
The helplessness comes from not knowing whether to give him a 2hr nap to catch up on ot, no nap to try to get him to catch up overnight, or stick with 1215-1pm nap, and start BT at 7pm indefinitely keeping to these times nomatter how early the wake in the hope he eventually gets used to it?
Thoughts anyone?
I know everyone has their issues but I really appreciate the support, it's v helpful for us to feel like we at least have a plan, so thanks for everything
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Honestly this used to happen to us, the day after the day of any clock change was 4am WU. Personally I'd let him have a longer nap if you can't get him back to sleep in the car and keep BT at 7.30 and then hope he shifts his day.
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That's good to hear Zoe, thanks.
He got an hour in the car so WU at 6 effectively for the day, would this be a good time to start the 45 min nap and BT at 7 routine we are going to move forward with?
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Give it a go, as 6am WU is ok. You might need to try 6.45 BT if he's shattered with clock change and just push over next few days.
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Brilliant, thanks for the advice, we'll give it a go. Hope yours are adjusting well.
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Yes not too bad eldest is back at school today and had a 7pm BT with 6wu and youngest well he's anyone's guess at when he will get on track...lol he's a monkey x
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Ha ha, I know all about that Zoe.
Just a brief update of sorts, he woke at 4am this morning, looked like it was for the day and my tears were getting ready to come on, but he went over after a drink of water until 550am. So we are taking that as a success!
One day at a time..
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It can take a few days, fingers crossed x
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445am today, screaming blue murder. We aren't doing the car thing anymore as it was just at the weekend and don't want to get into a bad habit, so that's him up for the day.
he was at docs yesterday and has an ear infection, so this could be playing on him too. Started an antibiotic so maybe after a couple of days this will kick in. Even though EW we'll stick to 1215-1pm nap and 7pm BT for the foreseeable future and see if things settle down towards the weekend..
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If he's got an ear infection that will prob be a big reason for him waking. If he's not 100% you might need to let him nap a little longer of you'll get OT creeping in with EW!
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SQUARE ONE AGAIN!!
We were sticking to 1215-1 ish 45 min naps and roughly 7am BT, which for the last week when he was on the antibiotic meant 530 give or take 5 mins WU which we were starting to
Live with.
However two days ago it was 515, yesterday 5am and today 430. I just can't believe it has regressed again so soon.
DH took him out in the car, we swore we would never do it again but 430 WU is just not an option, and got him asleep to 6am.
I was toying with the jump to 8pm BT for a few days to try and dramatically shift the day forward, what do you think, this may be the day to start it, and stick to 45min naps?
Or try a longer nap and stick with 7pm BT?
I know there is no exact science but we gotta try something..
Thanks in advance again!
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So, yesterday was in effect a 6am start, thought longer nap to combat OT so he slept 12-115pm, then looked like a good opportunity to push BT slightly so went down at 730pm, pretty tired and out like a light.
He cried out at 4am, 415am and then was hysterical at 430am and this is him for the day. As soon as he is downstairs he is completely calm.
Just literally don't know where to start. Not sure if he was UT or OT, what nap to do today, what time BT, nothing. As tough as the EWs are, and I see all the other mums on here going through the same, it's the not knowing what to do which is the worst.
For no reason we can think of he's getting 1hr nap at 12-1 today and bedtime at 7pm. There is no rhyme no reason to why I've decided this, but I have to pick something so if anyone looking in can see anything worth pointing out or make any suggestions, please feel free.
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Oh gosh Hun it's so hard when you are just stuck...it really could all just be developmental with him coming up to 2.
You could always allow a longer nap and see if he will go down at a normal ish BT to see if it is OT.
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Thanks Zoe, yeah, probably Is just developmental with him coming up to 2, hope that's it and we just have to ride it out.
If I am picking you up correctly then we'll go with the longer nap of 1hr 15 mins at lunch and stick with 7pm BT?
And even if this early WU time persists, if we stick with the normal BT of 7 for a few days, and allow the longer nap if the EWs continues, hopefully it'll start to settle and WU times will push when the OT fades?
Thanks!
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It was a messy time for us.
Yeah I'd try letting him sleep and if it's over 1 hour 15 just move BT a little it might help if he has a big catch up as such.
Or go the other way and go for EBT to see if you get a good long night do even with 6.30 BT a WU of 5/5.30 would be good.
Whatever you try you may have to stick with it for 3/4 days just to let him adjust. At this age we were working towards nap at 1pm for 1.5 hours with a 13/13.5 hour day. It does shift or can shift quickly st this age as we went from long naps to nap refusal to 14 hour days to CN and nap drop all within 6 months lol!
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Just a quick update Zoe.
We had that it was developmental with a bit of OT thrown in, went with longer nap for a bit and Sunday Monday Tuesday mornings got 6.10am/640am(!)/ 6am WUs and we didn't know ourselves!
Then Tuesday night he was up in the middle of the night for 1.5hrs, completely hysterical and we don't know why, could have been a nightmare. He only slept for 45mins nap next day (Wednesday)in daycare, 7pm BT then Lo and behold back to 440am WU this morning....
As frustrating/tear inducing/disappointing as that is this morning, our comfort is the fact that it looks like classic OT, he didn't catch up during the day yesterday for that big NW the night before, and we know what we need to do today (75 mins + nap to try and catch up). Plus in the back of our minds we know (hope!) it's developmental and will just have to ride it out for a few more weeks...
So sometimes it feels like 2 steps forward and 1 step back, but at least we think we know why it's happening and this at least helps us cope a bit mentally.
So thanks for the pointers and fingers crossed we will get back on track.
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Sometimes it's nice to know they can do it and cling to that one day they will again.
Hope it improves soon, keep us posted x