SLEEP => General Sleep Issues => Topic started by: MunchkinsMama on November 19, 2016, 21:48:42 pm

Title: Baby won't nap
Post by: MunchkinsMama on November 19, 2016, 21:48:42 pm
My lo is 10 weeks old and has been sleeping through the night for the last 3 weeks.

Although I should be happy that he is STTN, it seems to be from sheer exhaustion as he is not sleeping during the day. I am so concerned that he is only really getting about 2 hours of sleep between 7am-7:30/8pm and this isn't enough! He is constantly overtired and yawning. He has not slept for longer than 45 mins during the day and often it is just 10 mins here and there.

We have tried to establish a bedtime routine beginning at 7 but often it can take 1-1 1/2 hours to get him settled. Then like clockwork, he will sleep for 30 mins (on the button) and then waken. Then it's back to the bottle every time he wakes thereafter to try and get him to sleep again.

When we finally get him down, he will then sleep until his dream feed at 10pm (which is really a waste of time if it has taken us until 8-8:30 to get him to sleep) and regularly sleeps until 5am or on a few occasions, right through to 6:30/7. We always start the day at 7. Interestingly, when he wakes in the night, he is able to self-settle and go back to sleep.

Even in the car seat, he will only sleep in the car and wake as soon as I carry the car seat into the house.

When he wakes at 7, I have been successful in getting him to nap about 1 hour and 15 mins after waking but this only lasts 30-40 mins. Upon waking, he is still yawning and seems tired.

I try to keep his awake time to no longer than 1 hour 30 mins but he will not go to sleep!! He begins to close his eyes and drift off but seconds/minutes later he wakens again. He does not like being swaddled and shush pat seems to irritate him.

He has started to suck his fingers and fists but it does not help him settle. He isn't fussed on a dummy/pacifier and on the rare occasion he takes it, it falls out seconds later. We've tried using the Pantley removal technique with varying success.

Because of the lack of naps and being overtired, we've had to move bedtime to around 5pm some days which is far too early.

Any suggestions would be welcomed.
Title: Re: Baby won't nap
Post by: FPT23 on November 20, 2016, 17:31:32 pm
Hello :) Welcome to the forums and congratulations on your new little addition.

First off, maaaaany hugs! I know first hand how difficult and confusing those early weeks can be. Your doing great though, mom! Hang in there! I am more than happy to offer a few suggestions to see if it can ease your situations some :)

For starters, just kind reminder that he is only but a few weeks old. I know things seem a bit wild and inconsistent but I assure you, super superrrr normal :) A lot of it truly is developmental as they grow and adjust their sleeping. The way I always saw it was, 0-3 months they work on their night sleep and 3-6 months, their day sleep. The first few months will be up and down, love. Consistency and better naps will come closer to 4.5-5 month mark for some, others maybe 6mths +. I know it seems as though before he had it down, right? Well as they work on their sleep- it simply changes to more like our sleep. I assure it's developmental- their cycles are changing and they aren't staying asleep as before and wake a bit easier etc. In due time this will change :) ...I would also like to mention that none of these became props and he is now a great sleeper :D just by keeping the simple, small things in mind. Keeping the greater picture at view, and knew what my goals would be later.

Now, if possible (I know all days are different) can you please write your EASY in that same EASY format? I know I say a lot is developmental and you have to go along for the ride but following a simple routine and a few things to have on deck, can help and set the stage for future sleep :) ...maybe a little tweaking can help the naps some. See how your days are overall.

A little bit of my experience having just gone through this a few months ago, at this age I literally just went with it. I napped on the go all the time, I wore him if it helped, I put him in swings.. etc. he was swaddled and we used the paci on occasion. It was just easier to keep out of the house and stress about naps and sometimes they just helped get him that extra sleep he needed ;) this age my thing was getting him as MUCH sleep as possible. Stroller worked well with my LO. I would try and have at least the first nap at home, maybe the second one. If he short napped it or fussed, I left for a walk or a cruise in the car :) ...I also did a lot a lot A LOT of resettling naps. When your LO short naps, try your best to send him back off to sleep.. shh/pat him back to sleep or maybe a swing if all else fails. ANYTHING to get him rested, you follow? :) ...another piece of advice: over tiredness is INEVITABLE-- their such little awake time and sometimes getting them to sleep prolongs the process. It gets better with time :) ...

Now I saw you said your A time was no longer than 1.5 hrs. Now, is this all day? Is he asleep by 1.5 or do you attempt a little before? Again try and post your EASY :) ...but here is a link for "average" A times for this age. I think 1.5 is a bit much still- I would try for less but we can try and see after you show me the EASY. Here is the link- it's a great reference to keep on hand:

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

I will go ahead and add this one here for you too:

Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep

I do remember at this age it is about 4 naps a day and our bedtime was most def not at 5-6pm! I also want to mention as they sort their night sleep, they are also sorting out their clocks. Another words, learning the difference between night and day. If he is waking 30 mins after your "bedtime" maybe he just feel it's his last CN of the day. Perhaps he needs a little later BT for now. As they get older it comes fwd some. This is just my experience. I would begin trying a bedtime/nap time routine now (if u haven't already) and of course during the day bright lights and interactions and at nights keep it dark and very minimal interaction if any at all.


Hope all this helps!!

Hugs xo
Title: Re: Baby won't nap
Post by: MunchkinsMama on November 20, 2016, 22:02:19 pm
Hey FPT23,

Thank you so much for taking the time out to respond, and for your encouragement and reassurance. I'm such an anxious first-time mum and I guess I'm just putting a lot of pressure on myself to get it right.

He's a little fussy eater so we often have to give him breaks in between his feeds and also, the only way he'll go to sleep at the minute is with the bottle in his mouth so it's more like EAES. But then when he won't nap, it becomes a cycle of EAEAEA 🙈

E - 7am (we wake him) usually takes half his bottle then refuses any more
A - 7:30am plays on his mat/bouncer
E - 7:50/8am takes more of his feed
S - 8:15am (30 mins or the odd 45 min if I'm lucky)
A - 8:45/9am play time - nursery rhymes etc
E - 10am
S - 10:30 - try to get him to nap (30 mins)
A - 11am - tummy time/in swing
S - 11:30 - try to encourage another cat nap (very rarely sleeps)
A - 12noon - reading, playmat
E - 1pm
S - 1:30 - really try to get a nap in here. Will sleep for 20 mins if we're on the go but if at home-nope lol

The next few hours is the same battle to get some cat naps in:
E - 4pm

A - 6:30pm some nights bath, otherwise, we take him to the nursery with the nightlight on, nappy change, pjs on, sleeping bag on and bottle...
E - 7pm
S - 7:35pm (30 mins exactly and then wakens)
E - 8:05pm - takes more milk & here it can take anywhere from an hour to two hours to get him settled him for the night
S - 8:30-9:30
E - Dreamfeed at 10pm (so long as there has been at least 1 1/2hrs since last feed)

Sorry it's not a full and clear routine but that's part of the problem. The lack of naps means routine is out the window. Our 3 hourly feelings are the only routine we have at the minute.

Bed time is supposed to begin at 7pm but when he hasn't had proper naps and shows signs of tiredness, we move it forward to 5:30 or 6 etc

Tonight he went down at 6:45 and woke 30 mins later. It has since taken us 2 hours to get him back to sleep again.

I bought a sling wrap but he doesn't go to sleep in it. When I wear him in it outside of the house, he's too alert. He just sits there wide eyed, taking in his surroundings.

The dummy/pacifier isn't working well either. I don't think he really likes it. 9/10 times he'll push it out with his tongue as soon as I put it in or he'll even gag on it. On those rare occasions when he does take it, he can't keep it in for longer than 30 seconds before it pops out and we're back to square one.

I've tried shushing, white noise, soft lullabies, ceiling light show, his swing chair etc ...

He's the only baby I know who isn't soothed by the swing... He lies in it and laughs and smiles, wide awake! Lol

I just feel like I'm doing it all wrong...feeding to sleep etc

Sorry for the ramble. I know I shouldn't complain because he only wakens once during the night but from about 11am onwards I have a very overtired little man. He just can't seem to settle himself at all. His eyes will begin to close and moments later they'll pop open again. It's so frustrating.

Title: Re: Baby won't nap
Post by: FPT23 on November 21, 2016, 04:14:46 am
Aww mom, no worries I'm happy to help. Vent away! I know exactly how you feel! As a first time mom with DS1, I was so anxious to just get it all right. I stressed so much about it. I was so worried of doing it by the book yk? I found these forums late thought around the 4 month regression when I became desperate. Haha second time around I applied from day one and have been more laid back, and he's an angel! :) you'll get there. It's very hard- especially these first few weeks :(

You know, it is very common to have an unsettled baby in the late hours. We went through it too! We would stay up till 1am like, WHAT IS HAPPENING!? I'm pretty sure it's developmental with that one :/ ..I would just continue to soothe and get back to sleep in whatever way you can. So I wouldn't try to stres that one.

Where does he normally nap? What is his naptime routine? How does he normally go to sleep-- rocking etc. have you tried shh/pat? I love shh/pat because when you transition to the crib, it makes it so much easier. We'll save that for another day haha. But how does he normally sleep?

Also, his EASY, his A times are pretty long and I know 4-5 naps a day sounds like a DRAG, but it's what they need. I would keep A times at 1:15 for now. Since he is short napping, it would make sense he will be more tired his next A time, right? So let's say you get a 45/30 min nap off of a 1:15 nap... well his next A time he will be tired since it was short you will bring the next A time up to maybe 1:10... etc. I do everything in 15 min increments so I'm not figuring out crazy times haha.

As I mentioned above, if he's waking 30 mins after BT, maybe it's because he's not aware yet it's BT. He could be doing it as a CN as he maybe hasn't distinguished his nights and days. I had a BT of 8-9pm around this time and it worked since I slept at that time too. Eventually we dropped to 3 naps and BT moved closer to that 7pm mark. I would try to help him still with his day and nights and try a later BT perhaps?

A lot of this is developmental hun and no matter what you do, they do the oppostite. I assure you; sticking to EASY is and will get you good consistency later on and with time he will adjust

Don't despair. Hang in there! It will fly by even if it doesn't seem like it right now
Title: Re: Baby won't nap
Post by: KBolton on December 02, 2016, 05:06:54 am
For moral support, I could have written this post for my 11week old! She doesn't nap over 30minutes and I am thoroughly exhausted.

I've spent the last few weeks trying to figure out what's causing the problem. She seems to go down easiest at 1h15 mins no later than 1h20mins, any later and I get an overtired girl who fussed and wakes even earlier. I would recommend trying out different awake times and see how it goes.

I found the sling works great if I put a summer hat over her head to cut out the stimulation. She does fight sleep for a few minutes (Especially if she's overtired)  but will then sleep for as long as I can walk. She also sleeps quicker the faster I walk.. Once she's caught up on some sleep, the next nap is back in the crib with some good ole shush pat. It works a lot easier if she's not overtired.

I use shush pat but instead of shushing I use very loud white noise and pat with her tightly swaddled. I saw a sleep specialist (for napping) and she said not to pick her up for 20minutes. Caress, comfort, speak softly and make sure she knows she's loved but don't pick her up. I thought I would struggle. The first time she cried for 8minutes and then smiled at me and spent  5minutes looking around the room and then shut her eyes. I was using shush pat (white noise version) and singing to her as well when she was crying. She recommended that if by 20minutes she's wasn't asleep and upset then to pick her up and do what is needed to get her to sleep. Now I can get her to sleep a lot quicker, most of the time with no tears. My only problems is getting her to stay asleep. If she wakes and she's meant to have a 2 hour sleep I repeat the process and get her to take another 30mins nap.

As an intermediary step I did shush pat with her curled up on my chest. It only worked if she was swaddled, as her arm and legs would go everywhere and she would try an wiggle to my breast which is her favourite place to sleep! This also got my confidence up that I could get to sleep by not feeding her.

I also have a nap and bedtime routine, this really helped prep her for sleep and has made a difference.

I think I've narrowed down her waking to her startle reflex, even though she's swaddled. Here's hoping her new swaddle pod helps her get some rest!

Best of luck! I really hope you manage to get him napping.
Title: Re: Baby won't nap
Post by: KBolton on December 02, 2016, 05:12:21 am
I forgot to mention, I wasn't swaddling as I didn't think she likes it but I have given it another go and tried out different methods. Now she seems to like it and it does help control some of the jolting.
Title: Re: Baby won't nap
Post by: MilliesMummy2016 on December 03, 2016, 13:33:52 pm
Oh my goodness. I totally could've written this about my 8 week old daughter- see my thread. Obviously don't have any answers but it's literally identical to my LG, right down to the EAEAEA if she doesn't nap, it's like she thinks she's hungry instead of tired and will cry until she feeds again when really she just needs to sleep.

Right there with you and I feel you, it's exhausting isn't it. I hope things get better soon for us both xx