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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: AMJ on November 27, 2016, 10:17:42 am
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Hi there. Please help me figure out what's going on. My DD is 3.5 years old. She is an independent sleeper but never've been a good one. Her usual night is 10hrs long and until the trouble started her days looked like this:
WU 7:00 ish
4:00 S(usually 20m, every few days she would need a 30m nap to catch up)
4:20 WU
8:45/9:00 BT
But for a while now this isn't working because she is OT with dark circles under her eyes and a bad attitude. I've tried a 15m nap but it just makes her OT. We also recently moved her day forward so she might be OT from that too.
I don't know how to help her catch up on her sleep anymore. EBT just moves her day earlier and she WU earlier. And I don't know how to drop her nap completely because she seems very tired at her usual 9hrs of A. She's been up for the past 2 nights( 1st night because she WU to pee but then took 50m to fall back S, and second night she had a nightmare).
I'm also not sure if she needs a longer 45m nap to catch up because she is OT from me drastically moving her day forward but I'm afraid to give such a long nap because it could turn ugly if that's too long.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
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I would probably just drop the nap. I know it sounds scary!
As she is able to go 9hrs already without a nap you could perhaps push her to 10hrs and do EBT. This means a 14hr night which may sound unbelievable but many do do a 13 or 14hr night at the beginning of nap drop. At this age I would think it better to get a really good night (settling at 12hrs after any initial 13-14hr nights) rather than the short CN and such a short night.
You could just do it in one go and ride it out whilst she adjusts to the new routine or if she ended up with a particularly short night and early wake up one day you could do a little nap that day to help her through. Just dropping altogether is likely going to get into the routine faster rather than changing every day I would think, but there is no set rule about offering/not offering a little nap here and there during the transition.
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Thanks creations! I'm very scared of such an EBT. If she is up at7am that would mean her BT will need to be at 5pm. And there is a very little chance that she would do a 13/14hr night. This has never ever happened. I know most kids sleep 11/12 hrs at night so 13/14 hr night when dropping a nap is possible for them but mine has always had 10hr nights even since she was born so I doubt it she will slee so long. The longest she has ever slept was 11/11.5hrs of having a NND but that's after a very good previous night and refusing the nap on her own that day. So if her EBT wil be at 5pm that means she will be up at 4am. I just can't handle that.
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My DS was the same (and still is) and only ever did a max 11hr night even after dropping the nap, his nights never extended. I agree that it is probably best just to drop the nap, and we just did a set BT of 7pm and kind of rode out the OT. As Creations said an 11hr full night is likely to make her feel more rested than a shorter night and 20min nap, so if you can't do an early BT then just set it and stick to it and it will eventually work itself out. I found the 5pm hour the worst, when the tiredness would really kick in. We also made him have a "quiet time" of 1hr...so that meant on the couch watching a movie or some other quiet activity.
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And there is a very little chance that she would do a 13/14hr night. This has never ever happened.
Mine also only ever did 10.5 hr nights, only when we cut the nap (he was down to 9hr nights with the nap) did he do a period of 13 or 14 hr nights and eventually settled down to 12hr nights. Basically the same as you are describing of your LO. The 13-14hr nights are not something to count on lasting but during the transition to one nap they can happen for lots of LOs who have never previously been able to sleep for even 12hrs.
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Thank you both ladies. It is reassuring that we will get through it lol. Maybe I should try a 5pm EBT and if she doesn't do a 13-14hr night then just set a 7pm BT and ride it out. Also I have a feeling that she would need an occasional nap after a NND.
Creations, if she wakes at 4-5am the next morning what would you recommend I do with her day? A 30m nap and a regular 9pm BT and the following day No Nap and a set 7pm BT?
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Oh my she woke up at 4:15am this morning (BT was 5pm). :o what do I do with her day today???? I don't want her day moved earlier
And now I'm doubting that she is ready to drop the nap. If she can do only 11hrs at night how can she stay awake for 13hrs? She will get very overtired
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Hi
How did your day go?
I would think with such an early WU you would have a better chance of resettling her to a more reasonable hour. However if not then yes do a short nap and BT and then try again for a better day the following day.
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It's still 1pm here so she didn't have her nap yet. I'm wondering if I should give her a long 1hr nap to get her to regular 9pm BT. She is going to be a disaster with such a long day
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I think I would pull bedtime forward regardless of whether she naps or not...4am-9pm is a silly long day. Maybe try for a 30-45min nap and a 7pm bedtime, then at least if she does a 10.5hr night it is bringing you closer to a more reasonable WU.
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Thanks ladies!!
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Hi AMJ hope you and A are ok 😊 Another transition and another dilemma 😄
I was just going to add too that dropping the nap is real scary but you just have to go cold turkey & ride it out. She definatley sounds ready. I remember your struggles in the past with that EW! But it will settle out!
She slept from 5pm - 4.15am which is over 11 hours which is a pretty good length for her right?! Just shows she can do it.
I just wanted to suggest tho as previously said, possibly setring the bed time to 7pm then riding it out. If she does 11hrs thats a 6am wake up. If you leave it like that til she settles into it, you could then look at slowly moving that BT to 8pm and hope then that the WU would push to 7am again. I think 5pm is too early for sure & my dd would probs wake super early too with that BT.
Just push through & ride the wave x
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hi Jodes how are you? Yes another transition ::)
I just really wish I could bring her BT back to 7 am first. I just pushed her day forward after the time change and her WU was 7 am but now it's back to 6am after that 4am Wu.
thanks for the advice
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Hello,
I had this with my DD 2.8 years, she would nap but then go to bed late and fight bedtime (plus took ages to go to sleep for nap). We went cold turkey and just dropped it. She gets an hour laid on the couch watching tv/film then in bed half hour earlier. Took a while and had some more disturbed nights but she went straight to sleep at 7 and although woke in night, slept till 7:30 in morn or sometimes later. She now sleeps 7:15 till around 7-7:15am with only the odd waking due to bad dream etc. once every 2/3 weeks so a massive improvement.
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Thanks for sharing!!
TBH we've tried dropping her nap multiple times before because there were times when we thought that she is dropping it and she never pulled through so we always brought it back. But maybe now is the time that it is actually happening. I guess I just have to try
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I know most kids sleep 11/12 hrs at night so 13/14 hr night when dropping a nap is possible for them but mine has always had 10hr nights even since she was born so I doubt it she will slee so long.
My DS2 - now 11yo was a 10 hour night sleeper until he dropped to 9h & now at 11yo he's more like 8hours or even 7.5hours (which is less than me LOL) BUT when he dropped his nap he'd do 1-2 days a week of 4pm-6am & that helped him work it out.
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Katet oh wow he went to bed at 4pm? You are a brave women!!
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How have u been getting on? x
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Katet oh wow he went to bed at 4pm? You are a brave women!!
No he fell asleep & we put him to bed. I thought we were in for a horror night waking, but he slept in the next morning, so we accepted that at that age it worked... but could only do it if he fell asleep doing something like watching TV or in the car, no way we could put him to bed.
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Hi ladies sorry for a late reply. DD was sick first then I got it from her and then I was away. Anyhow we just did a few days of no nap but so far it's not going good. She is exhausted, cranky, is having multiple meltdowns during the day, and is having 1.5hr long NWUs due to OT. To be honest I just don't think she can go without nap.
From our experience the only way for her to end up with an 11hr solid night is if her day is max 10/10.5 hrs long. But that's no possible since 11hr night leaves us with a 13hr day. It just doesn't add up.
I know you mentioned that her nights supposed to lengthen but so far it's not happening and she is so miserable.
I'm debating if I should bring back her nap. I can see she is really struggling.
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Amj what happens if you let her have a little catnap?
Wonderinh if she would benifit from a nap say 2pm for 30 mins? Just to pushh her through the day.
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I tried a 30m nap yesterday at 4ish (she always napped late) but she took a long time to fall asleep at BT (party because she was telling me about an incident at the gym because of her behaviour) and then was up at 6am. Her night was only 8hrs40m long. Maybe she needed a 15/20m only
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I think Honey that any nap at 4pm would mean a disastrous BT and short night. We are also dropping the nap now and usually I allow a nap if he is cranky at 12/13. If he is I let 20-30min and than we do until 7pm. Sometimes I see at 4pm that we missed a. So and it was a mistake but no matter what we push for normal BT w/o catnap as it would ruin his day. Thinking loudly - how many days you are now on no nap routine and how your days look like?
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She always had a late nap. She needs at least 9hrs of A in the morning and she can handle about 4hrs of A after a 15m nap. She just won't take a nap any earlier.
I think it's been 4 days. And she is in her crib at 6:30pm. Sometimes she falls asleep at 6:40 sometimes at 7pm. Then she has a 1.5hr NWU and is up anywhere between 6 and 6:30am