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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: AshleyMegan on December 08, 2016, 20:27:22 pm
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My dd (13.5 months) was showing signs of switching to 1 nap, so for the most part, that is what we do. There are maybe 2 days a week that she'll get 2 naps (if we're out and she falls asleep earlier than normal in the car). Her wu is at 7:30, give or take 15 minutes, and is now going down for her nap at 1:30. The past few days, she woke up screaming about 1.25 hours into her nap. Its just periodic, not enough to get her. She then walks a lap around her crib, and lays back down, trying to sleep. This routine repeats itself for about 45 minutes, - 1 hour then she falls back asleep. I don't know what to do. I tried putting her down 30 minutes earlier, and the same thing happened. :( Help! This is taking up sooo much time.
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Hi there
Sorry you didn't get any replies yet.
Sounds exhausting having a 1hr break in the nap.
I would start her nap 15 mins later and see if it helps her transition into that next sleep cycle more smoothly. She's clearly still tired but perhaps not tired enough to just transition. So rather than OT she is more likely UT. After a few days of 15 mins later if you see no improvement you might try:
- W2S to help her transition from one cycle to the next to get her back in the habit. You'd do this for a few days to see how it goes.
and/or
- move nap another 5-15 min later so that she is not UT for her nap.
Not sure when her BT is, with a slightly later and longer more restful nap you might find as a result she may fuss at BT and resist going down at the right time in which case one of two options:
- move BT a little later also (I know none of use really want a later BT but it is not for ever. Our BT moved over time until it was as late as 8pm, sounded awful to me, I needed my Y time, but we adapted so well to it that when his BT needed to be moved earlier again due to nap dropping we felt like the day was too short, again we adapted though)
or
- cap the nap so that you have a decent A time between the end of the nap and BT. This works great for some and can eventually lead to a CN rather than long nap and then the nap drop. This was not suitable for my LO which was why we maintained the longer nap and moved BT later.
Hope this helps
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I had one more thought... are you having to go in to her in the middle of the nap or are you observing on a monitor? I just wondered whether she is fully awake or whether she is in light sleep/dream state for that middle bit of her nap and deep sleep either side? It's just that the 45 mins could be length of a sleep cycle and deep-light-deep sleep is a typical pattern.
But if she is definitely awake then pp has given you some really helpful suggestions to try.
Xx
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Ahhh she is so unpredictable! Trying to keep her up another 15 minutes today, I was in the other room doing dishes. It got quiet so I checked on her and she was fast asleep on the ground. 😣
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Oh dear. Sounds cute though :)
So you will have to really distract her to keep her up those extra 15 mins. Then you ought to see a better nap.
It's just that the 45 mins could be length of a sleep cycle and deep-light-deep sleep is a typical pattern.
I think LO is waking at 1hr 25 rather than 45 mins and having a scream. This would have been UT for mine, rather than waking happy he woke miserable as he was too tired to get up but not tired enough to transition the cycle. Cycles are often more like 1hr something at 1yo I believe as they lengthen and become more similar to an adult cycle.
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I'll have to give that a go again tomorrow. 😊
She woke from that nap exactly 40 minutes in, extremely miserable, so clearly she wasn't tired enough.
It just seems like a long time....waking at 7:30am and not napping until 1:45...is that fairly common?
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Well, it is quite a long A time but some need that. Mine had a very long morning A time and a very short A time before BT, if I had given him shorter in the morning he would have short napped and then the afternoon would have been far too long for him.
You might find that as she settles into one nap days she can go down for the nap earlier (I mean if there are zero 2nap days which I think atm you have a couple of days per week with 2 naps) or you might not...sorry each individual is quite different when they get to this age.
Mine was probably older than yours is now when we had a routine which was something like:
WU 6.30
nap 2-4
BT 8
and certainly this wouldn't suit all LOs at all, I'm just mentioning it to show that some do need their nap late.
My suggestion of going that additional 15 mins wasn't really based on what time the nap is but based on it appearing to be a touch UT. I assumed she had been taking the nap at 1.30 for a little while and it was established. If it is not an established time and you feel her nap should be significantly earlier then try a set nap at an earlier time, 12 even.
What do you think? Sorry there are not clean cut answers, only suggestions, I would set the nap time and see how it works out over a number of days rather than judging results on one day.
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I think that is what I'll have to do. I kept her up until 1:45 today, she slept for 30 minutes, woke up so miserable. Does it sound like I maybe switched her to 1 nap too soon?
I thought her taking 2 short naps was a sign but maybe I was wrong...I just looked in her mouth and found 2 molars popped through, so maybe that is why she was taking shorter naps?
I'm at a loss...she seemed less cranky on mainly 2 naps, compared to what we're doing now.
If I put her down at 11:30, it's still 40 minutes. Maybe I'll have to try gradually moving that nap time later?
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It may well have just been the teeth (I say "just" but I know teething is awful) so perhaps go back to the last known routine on two naps and stick with it as closely as you can for a week.
The other thing though is that some LOs won't do two naps but then on one things go right off track for a bit - mine was like this. He did a great 2hr nap every day and I thought this would not change. He was ready for the drop to 1 nap and the refusal for nap 2 was so bad I couldn't keep on trying it so we dropped to one. However rather than doing his normal 2hr nap he started doing horrible 20 min naps. It was certainly one of the roughest patches for us and I fought like mad with him to force him back to sleep for a while until I realised I could do a W2S and catch him waking put a hand on him and sooth him through which worked so much better than him fully waking and fighting going back to sleep. Although the W2S was so much easier than trying to resettle him I did have to go in every 20 mins until his 2hr nap was over! Eventually he settled back into his nap and from then held on to that 2hr nap for around 18 months, the "fight" to get the routine settled was totally worth while as we had a great routine for a good length of time - just moving the nap a little later in the day when needed.
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It really doesn't matter what I do...she always wakes up 40 minutes into her nap. 50% of the time, she can put herself back to sleep, the other 50% of the time, she can't, so it's an early bedtime...
Do I just continue with the 1 nap routine and hope she catches on? :|
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Sorry, what time are you doing the nap now? Is it 11.30? or 1.45pm?
And what happens now when she wakes at 40 mins? Are you using W2S or shush/patting back to sleep or getting her up?
Has she been having two or one nap over the last week or so?
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We were trying at 11:30, but she would wake at 40 minutes, and then fight a 2nd nap...so that was a no go. For the past week or so, we have been having a 1:45 pm nap. I haven't been doing the W2S, as she is such a light sleeper and we have creaky floors, that it just wakes her up. I find if I go in her room to try to shush pat her back to sleep, that I just make it worse. :|
I have just been leaving her to self-settle, giving her a few minutes. If it's consistent crying, and she's clearly not going back to sleep, I go get her (I have tried the shush pat here before, but she'll just scream and scream until I take her out of her room). Sometimes she'll cry for a minute, then lay back down, then cry, lay back down, etc. until she finally falls back asleep. I find though, she never really gets a full sleep after this happens. She'll sleep for 15 minutes, wake up, fall back asleep, and the cycle continues.
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Her nap today...I put her down at 1:45. She woke screaming after 20 minutes...put herself back to sleep for another 20, and is still in there trying to go back to sleep.
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Maybe try her nap earlier, say 12?
And if she is doing 1hr 20 quite regularly then I'd go in and creak the floor board and give her a quick stroke at around 1hr, worth a shot. If you kick start a new sleep cycle you could get another 40 min instead of 20...or you could get an hour...
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Thank you. 😀 I'll definitely try that tomorrow
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40 minutes and she wakes up screaming again. I'm at a loss. I put her down at 12:15 for her nap
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A 40m in nap rather than 1hr 20?
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Yes 😞
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I'm wondering if I should just go back to the drawing board and put her down for a nap at 11:30 (I know she'll only sleep for 40 minutes...) and then go back to attempting another nap from 3:30-5 (which is what she was doing in the past)?
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Maybe :-\
I think you were finding it hard to get her down for the second nap though weren't you? so it can still be very hard.
Chopping and changing doesn't help her settle into a routine - but one 40 min nap in the day clearly isn't helpful either.
I think I'd be tempted to continue the midday nap for a week to see if it settles down more but if you think going back to 2 naps is the way to go then sure try it - after all you are with her and know her best, I am only looking at times on a screen.
Here either way, whatever you decide to try x
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Thank you so much! They really are hard to read at times. The reason I started thinking 2 naps was the way to do it again is because when we are out and about she is almost asleep at 11:30. She slept for 40 minutes then. And I put her down at 4pm for a second nap and I had to wake her up at 5:20. Hmmm.
But on the other hand, I could not get her to sleep yesterday until 2:15...😣 She was fighting it beforehand. She then scrwamed 40 minutes into her nap, and fell back asleep until 4;50. Oh brother...
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I found the 2-1 a difficult nap drop. I had to really stick to a routine and force my DS to sleep long enough. I know it's no practical help to you but at least you know you aren't the only one to have a tricky time of this x
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Thank you :)
I took your advice and still tried for the 1 nap. And I'm so glad I did! The past 2 days, she has made it through the sleep cycle!! She must wake slightly, but can put herself back to sleep (I can hear her sucking on her fingers, lol). Yesterday she woke screaming at 1 hour 20 minutes into it, but at least had a decent amount of sleep to get her to bedtime.
Today, she did the same thing at 40 minutes. At 1 hour 20 minutes, she woke up, whimpered, walked around her crib, laid back down and is still trying to fall back asleep (singing to herself periodically- besides that, she's silent).
How long would you allow her to try to fall back alseep before getting her up?
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it's a shame she can't manage that third sleep cycle to get to 2hrs as it does sound like she needs it - but I think you have tried a later nap to make her more tired and it didn't help with the transition so really now I think it is just a case of going with what she can do and accepting the 1hr 20 mins...you never know it might extend to 2hrs in a week or two as sometimes the change in routine makes for shorter napping than they need but gradually they relax into it. let's hope so.
As for when to get her up - if she regularly wakes at 1hr 20 and then spends a long time getting up, walking, laying down again but never falling to sleep then I'd probably just go in and get her up, as soon as she wakes or 5-10 mins after rather than leaving her getting frustrated about not being able to get back to sleep. I'll give an example of my own DS, it's a slightly different thing but it perhaps helps to know, Tracy said if they are mantra crying leave them, and that falling to sleep can take 20 mins but when I put my DS down for the night or a nap I knew that if his mantra went on for more than say 5 mins he needed help, there was no point waiting longer. The days I did wait longer he'd mantra for an hour and then scream so he missed out on an hours sleep or more. I knew if I just went back in and helped him a little he'd get to sleep on time and was still independent, IMO there was always a reason for him needing an little extra help on those days. So in terms of leaving a LO who is not doing an "I need you cry" yeah you can leave them, they are not in distress, but equally if you know a bit of help or just getting her up would reduce the amount of time/frustration then you might as well do it rather than waiting an hour or so.
I could be wrong here but maybe you can ask her - "do you want to get up?" and hold out your arms in invitation to be picked up and see what she does?
One more thing - if she continues to do 1hr 20 nap regardless of what time it is at, I would suggest just putting it at a reasonable time so that she is not too grouchy waiting for it, but also doesn't leave too long an A time before BT (basing the expectation on 1hr 20 not 2hr nap) to even her day up as much as you can. The A times do not need to be equal, some LOs like a much longer first A time and some like a much longer second A time so you judge where is best for her and set it at that time daily.
hope this helps
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Thank you very much. I think I just have to keep doing what I'm doing I suppose....with no change in anything, we just started doing 40 minute naps again. :(
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Oh dear. Not good hey.
Are you trying meds before nap?
I know you said she's a light sleeper and W2S isn't successful but have you tried consistently doing W2S for each 40 min cycle, going in at 30 mins and putting a hand on her to see her through? It's the only thing I can think of to help improve her nap length. I had to go in every 20 mins for my DS when he dropped to 1 nap, well I went in at 19 mins and put a hand on him, firm with a slight rocking motion, until say 21 mins then left, I kept going until he had 2hrs nap. It was the only way to get him to do the 2hrs even though prior to nap drop he'd been doing a predictable long nap for ages.
If you can get her into the habit she'll start to do it alone.
hugs, must be exhausting for you right now.
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Ok....thought I'd update you.
2 days ago, at 11:30, she seemed very tired and kept going to her room, pointing to her crib. I put her down for a nap then.
40 minutes later, she woke (as expected, but not AS cranky as before), and I was sure she'd fight the second nap. I figured I may as well try the 2nd nap. Come 3 or 3:30 pm (I can't remember which, lol), I put her down, and she slept, and slept. She didn't even wake at the 40 minute mark.
I had to wake her up by 5 to make sure she got to bed on time. Should I continue this schedule? This seems really late for a 2nd nap...
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2 days ago, at 11:30, she seemed very tired and kept going to her room, pointing to her crib.
Oh that's just too cute!!
It does seem very late for a second nap - how did BT and the night go that night?
If that was two days back what did you do the next day, 2 naps again? Go well? Just wondering if she only wanted it as a one off to catch up as you did say about a month ago that she was still doing 2 naps a couple of days per week. It could just be that for now she would do well on a mix of 2 and 1 nap days.
Some LOs are okay with that. Not mine, he needed every day the same so he knew what was going on but yours is asking for a nap, so I would have put her down too!
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She never seems to have an issue with BT, thankfully.
It's just frustrating that we're all over the place and have such a late 2nd nap.
Her 1st nap has been kept at 11:30, and still only sleeps for 40 minutes. But that pushes the second nap so late. I'm wondering if I should try putting her down even earlier for her first nap? 😣 I feel like I'm starting over completely!
Yesterday I tried a 1 nap day because she didn't seem tired one bit...so I put her down at 12:30 after lunch, but it was a 35 minute nap and even harder to fit the 2nd nap in
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If you want to continue with 2 naps how about capping the first at 20-30 mins rather than a full 40? and go for the longer afternoon nap instead? What do you think?
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I think I will give that a go.
Should I still continue the morning nap at 11:30, and cap it by noon? If that's the case, when should I put her down for her long pm nap?
Or should I move the am nap earlier, capping it, then put her down for her pm nap earlier?
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I would try keeping the nap start at the same time as she does appear to go down at that time. Wake her earlier making a shorter nap. Leave the second nap at it's current time meaning the A time is that 20 mins longer and in addition she is also more tired having had a 20 min nap rather than 40.
It's somewhere to start.
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How long of capping the am nap would you start moving the pm nap earlier?
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I've been capping the am nap, and she seems great after that, and we've been continuing our pm nap at 3...but she sleeps for an hour for the pm nap and wakes up screaming.
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Are you doing a 30 min morning nap? So it is 11.30 - 12 and followed by a 3hr A time before the second nap?
Is her mood throughout the A time is ok?
Is she happy to go down for the 3pm nap or any fussing or refusal?
Are you suspecting OT on the second nap? It sounds on the UT side to me.
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I am doing a 30 minute morning nap. She is as happy as a clam throughout the A time.
The thing is, with her, 99% of the time, she's happy to go down for a nap, lol. Honestly, if I were to try to put her down at 10:30am instead of 11:30 am, I'm sure she'd sleep.
I am also suspecting UT on the 2nd nap, But i don't really want to delay her nap even more.
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If you think she'd go down earlier for the first nap and it not cause any EW then perhaps this is the way to increase that A time between naps1 and 2? What do you think?
If she's happy it sounds like the two nap routine is helping.
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So this is how our schedule has been lately (I just saw your response about an earlier am nap)...
She goes down for a nap at 11:30, but even without me waking her up, it is only 10 minutes. I put her down for another nap at 3:00-3:15 and I have to wake her up by 5 (the still does wake 40 minutes into that nap, but puts herself back to sleep shortly thereafter)...
I don't know if I messed it up- I thought after a few days of that, she'd be good on one nap. So today, I put her down at 1:00 pm (as she wasn't showing signs of tiredness before), and her nap isn't going that great. She is still in there, but she cried after about 15 minutes for a few seconds, which is unlike her...then again at 40 minutes, and now at 1 hour 10 minutes. She keeps trying to put herself back to sleep, and does, but it's clearly not as peaceful as it should be.
So, my question (again), lol...
1) Should I continue with this 1 nap thing and hope she gets used to it?
2) Continue with the 2 naps (the 1 short nap at 11:30 then a long one from 3:00-5:00, give or take)?
3) Keep both naps and attempt to move them earlier?
Thanks!
Ashley
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Oi I think I answered my own question. Clearly she gets overtired on one nap. (She woke up screaming at 1:20 after putting her down at 1pm)...so the questions change haha.
Should I try just a 1 nap day (earlier than 1pm)?
Keep on 2 naps (at 11:30-11:45 and 3-5)?
Keep on 2 naps (attempting to make both earlier)?
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We've made the final push to 1 nap and we do it sometime between 12/12:30, so I'm winding that if like you say you do 1 nap but keep it earlier.
If we do 2 naps the first is 9:30ish and the afternoon is 3.5hrs later. My DD is an early riser though so that's why we can do the morning nap that early (I was hoping the EWs would disappear after we were solidly in 1 nap, but it's yet to happen ::))
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I would suggest keeping the 2 naps for now, the 11.30 for 10 mins or capping it at 20min, the reason I'm saying leave it at 11.30 is it seems she goes down willingly at this time, if she will go down earlier then fine move it earlier but watch out for it causing EW as mentioned before. If you try earlier and she fights though or it causes EW I'd move it back to 11.30 pretty soon yk?
And yes keep the long second nap. At this point I don't think you can move it earlier as you don't want her UT for it resulting in a shorter nap really.
She might continue like this with the 2 naps for ages...or she might not.
If one day you get total nap refusal at 11.30 I'd go for one nap at 12.30pm or 1pm. Ultimately if she was on 1 nap you could try it at 12pm instead but 12pm isn't going to work if you are already in her room trying to get her to nap for the 11.30 and she is just refusing, so you'd have to bring her out of the room, do a bit of A and then go back to try again - it automatically makes it later for that one nap. If this happens I'd be tempted to leave her to go to sleep grab a cuppa and go back to her room to camp out and see her through that nap in an attempt to avoid short napping and OT.
If she refuses the 11.30 nap for several days running I'd probably go for the drop to 1nap then and make it more like 12/12.30pm.
Often EBT is needed with the drop to one nap too.
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So in the past 4 days, she started refusing the 11:30 nap, and things seem to have improved. She wakes about 40 minutes in (still!) but puts herself back to sleep immediately (woo hoo!). The first 2 days I put her down at 1 pm, she would wake up periodically throughout the 2 hour window (maybe she was overtired? I'm not sure) but would fall back asleep then wake up and play on her own in her crib until 2:30ish. Lately it has been 12:45...She is getting about 1 hr 20 minutes of sleep total right now (but wakes up happy, hooray!). She can never seem to make it past the 1 hr 20 minute mark ( 2 sleep cycles ). If I keep her up until 1, I find her sleep isn't very solid. Her 12:45 nap today, she woke up 40 minutes in, let out a whimper and put herself back to sleep. 1 hr 20 minutes in, she woke up, stood up, started singing to herself and laid back down. I'm thinking she is trying to go back to sleep. Will these naps tend to get longer and more solid on their own?
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It sounds like an improvement :)
That nap might settle and extend. You might try just an extra 5 mins A time to give her a tiny bit more A time and see if it brings another sleep cycle as she seems to be trying to go back to sleep. Perhaps see how the next several days go and then consider the additional 5 mins?
Are you also doing an earlier BT to allow for the move to one nap?
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She's been in bed 15-30 minutes earlier, depending on how tired she is 😊
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Do you find the 15-30 min EBT is enough? Many people do much earlier BT when the nap drops. Depends what suits your LO of course.
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Hi all! Currently following!
Tips on elongating the naps?
When we first hit 4hr ATs he was doing 2.5-3 hr naps! Now he dropped and won't go past 1.5... and naturally avoids any CN at all costs at this point.
Any idea why the nap shortened like that? Tips to help make them longer again? He used to be the king of naps ;)
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Sounds like he'd do better on 1 nap later in the day Fabi. At 12mo my DS1 was on 4.5hrs A time and would then do a lovely long 3hr nap. DS2 did more like 5hrs A time followed by a 2hr nap. My DD is the same. Your DS probably just isn't tired enough after 4hrs anymore.
If you want more advice why don't you start your own thread to get more eyes?
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Hi Ali how are you :)
Thanks for the advice!! I did have a thread and had great advice actually! However, I think I just needed to really buckle down and rewind. I had a very scary transition with DS1 haha and I made sooo many mistakes so this one kinda intimidated me some ::)
I thought I could follow on her with some ideas since it was active... ?
I've come to realize he does have around 4.5 AT. I've been sticking with a set nap at 11:30 give or take. The problem I have is that on 4hr AT he used to do 2-3 he naps! (He's angel baby for sleep 100%. Nap king!) ...then now, he cannot go beyond 1.5/1.40... he just stands and screams. Before naps and after... :(
Naturally he ends up with 5-6 AT to BT... I've considered capping but he's done such great morning naps that I worry to do so. I've capped at 1hr and CN was still refused at all costs. What used to work like a charm as far as APOP- stopped entirely. Nights he has been doing 12-12.5. No problem.
That nap just kills me when he can't extend it like he used to. I was wondering what I could do to make the naps go longer again as they always have been extremely long. I've stuck to 11:30 nap for several days and still no nap length adjustment.. that's our thing ATM
;)
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I thought I could follow on her with some ideas since it was active... ?
I think OP has pretty much settled her LO's routine now Fabi. I wonder if you might be looking for this support thread:
Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 7
although it's pretty quiet in there.
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Oh ok...
Creations I'm sorry what's OP? ::) ;D
Thanks
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OP = Original Poster. ie the person who started the thread with a question.
:)
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Ah got it thanks ;)