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SLEEP => General Sleep Issues => Topic started by: peanutmom on December 25, 2016, 14:59:42 pm

Title: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on December 25, 2016, 14:59:42 pm
Waking up on this Christmas morning at 5am not bc of Santa but bc of my baby girl decided that 5am is normal to be awake and start the day. She is happy healthy baby and sleeps through the night since 6months. No dream feeds, sleeps in her own bed. But couple weeks ago started to wake up at 6am, then 5.30am and now at 4.45-5am  :( instead of usual 6-6.30am
Her day goes like this:
5am-6.30am - wake up
7am - 6-7oz bm
8am - 1/4 cup of veggies/fruit
9am-9.30am goes down for nap
sleeps for 1-1.5 hour
11am - 6oz bm
noon- 1/4 cup of veggies/fruit
1pm-1.30pm - goes down for nap
sleeps for 1-2 hours
3pm - 6-7oz bm
4pm - yogurt
5.30pm - 4tblsp cereal with bm/formula
6-6.15pm - bath
6.30pm 6-8oz formula
7pm - bed

She is at the daycare 3 days/week and they are doing their best to follow her feeding and napping schedule, but it doesn't always work as there are kids from 6weeks to 16months.
idl what i'm doing wrong but she started to wake up earlier and earlier and now our day is a mess bc she can not keep her eyes open around 6.30pm and passing out in my arms while i'm trying to feed her :( We have tried putting her to bed earlier - didnt work, room darkening - done. She is very mobile and is almost walking right now. Any advice would be great!
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Buntybear on December 27, 2016, 18:15:40 pm
Hello -  wonder if your LO needs a little less day sleep now? You may want to reduce one of the naps by 15-30 mins and see if that helps?

chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on December 28, 2016, 21:43:02 pm
Buntybear, we have tried it and even with only 30 min naps she still woke up around 5am....
Not sure what happened, but last two days she is up around 6am!!!!!! The only thing we changed is her formula before she goes to bed.
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Buntybear on December 29, 2016, 19:59:49 pm
Do you mean one long nap and then a 30 minute catnap?

Maybe she is going through a growth spurt then!
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on December 30, 2016, 13:31:52 pm
She only takes 2 naps, depending on whats going on in the daycare and home it can be 30min nap or 2 hour nap. I dont usually let her sleep more then 2 hours per nap. Today she woke up at 5am again :( hoping it's a growth spurt then...
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: creations on January 01, 2017, 09:41:44 am
Hello and welcome to BW forums :)
Lovely to have you here.

I wonder if you get a report from day care about how long she has napped each day?  If not could you ask that they jot down the times so that you can see if there is a pattern to her naps, how long they are etc.  It would really help us to support you if we knew when and for how long she is sleeping, not just on her days at home but for all her days.  it could be for instance that she regularly does a 30 min nap in the morning at day care and you could follow this at home to stabilise her routine somewhat, to create more consistency.  It is much easier to work out LOs sleep needs or what needs tweaking if the routine is consistent.

it could be that she is sleeping short at day care and longer at home but that overall is getting too much day sleep (too much catch up?) which is shortening her nights. At this age sleep needs do drop a little so one shorter and one longer nap would be more common.

if you are able to post some a full weeks Sleep times (WU, nap length and time (and where), BT, NWs and morning WU) we might be able to offer some additional support.
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 03, 2017, 16:20:07 pm
Sure!

I get day care reports by the eod. So, for example, last week went like this:

Monday (home, usually she is in the daycare on M, but bc of the Christmas it was closed):
4.50am- wake up
9.30am - 1,5h nap
1.30pm - 1,5h nap
7pm - bedtime

Tuesday (daycare):
6.10am- wake up
8.45am - 1,5h nap
1pm - 1h nap
6.40pm - bedtime

Wednesday (home):
6.20am- wake up
9.30am - 1,5h nap
1.40pm - 1,5h nap
6.40pm - bedtime

Thursday (daycare):
5.20am- wake up
9.30am - 30min nap
1.30pm - 1,5h nap
6.40pm - bedtime

Friday (home):
4.45am- wake up
9.30am - 1,5h nap
1.30pm - 1,5h nap
7pm - bedtime

Saturday (home):
6.20am- wake up
9.30am - 1,5h nap
1.30pm - 1,5h nap
7pm - bedtime

Sunday (home):
5.40am- wake up
9.30am - 1,5h nap
1.30pm - 1,5h nap
6.40pm - bedtime

Monday/today (home):
5.20am- wake up :(

Her morning naps are usually shorter, anywhere from 30min to 1,5h. Her afternoon nap is no less then 1 h. And if her afternoon nap is less then 1h - omg... she is a little terror around 6pm and starts passing out at 6.30pm. I don't mind her staying later then 7pm, so she can sleep a little late too. My husband and I work really late and don't go to bed earlier then 11pm or midnight. I just don't know how to switch her to going to bed later so she can wake up later in the morning too.
Daycare is doing their best with naps, but like I said, there are little babies there different age, anywhere from 6 weeks to 16months. And I guess she only sleeps there bc she is exhausted. They are trying to put all the kids on the same schedule, light are of at 9am-11am, and 1pm-3pm, so if your baby sleeps during that time thats great, but I'm not sure how anyone can sleep, when there is a newborn crying right next to you :(... Also, she started to eat a lot! Like going from 6oz of milk to 8-9oz first bottle of the day at 7am in the last week.

Thank you all so much!!! I know I should be happy she sleeps even 10 hours at night, but I worked really hard to get her on this schedule and everything started to go so well for a month, and not we are stuck with these morning wake ups and I have no idea how to fix it...   
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Buntybear on January 03, 2017, 19:45:33 pm
I really think that the EWs are a mixture of OT an UT - you can easily get in a cycle with the 2-1 nap dropping. I am surprised that you can get a 1.5 nap out of her at 9.30am! Is she particularly high sleep needs? Many LOs can get to 11/12pm for their long nap at that age. I believe a lot of nurseries over here will aim for a midday nap at that age too - they would split the kids into age groups. You can't expect a baby to sleep the same time as a toddler!

We had our longer nap first and then capped the 2nd nap so in the end he would have 30 mins at about 4,30 just to get him through to BT. And all of those CNs had to be APOP'd  ::) ::)

Looking at your schedule I would be tempted to cap the 1st nap if it going to be that early and then go for the longer nap after lunch as this is when it will fall when she totally drops the nap anyway. To have 3 hours of naps and an early BT is a lot of sleep at that age IMHO.

HTH!
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 03, 2017, 21:03:30 pm
Yes, I'm thinking the same - the goal is to have the afternoon nap be the longest one, so we will have an easy time transitioning to 1nap down the road (like around 1 year?). It seems like a short afternoon naps always result in her being overtired anyway.
The reason why she is taking 1.5h morning naps is bc she is very VERY active baby, and mornings are her best time - she won't sit still a min! :)
Starting tomorrow will try a new schedule and cap 1st nap to 1h max.
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Buntybear on January 03, 2017, 21:39:32 pm
I am really sorry - I thought your LO was 12 months old for some reason  :P  In that you really are at very early stages of the transition!

I am not so good on routines tweaks before 1 year old I am afraid. I guess you could look at  pushing out that first A time - there must be a need for longer A times if she has the EWs. Pushing the naps back would help you getting your later bed time too. Not sure on if you need to cap the naps quite yet - Creations may know?

Sorry again - what a wally!
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Buntybear on January 03, 2017, 21:43:28 pm
Looking at these 9 months routines you do seem to have a good routine - apart from the EWs... - they do seem to have a shorter first nap though - you could try capping at one hour as you say and see how she goes x

chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 03, 2017, 21:52:12 pm
ehehhehe no worries, her pediatrician says on the paper she looks like 12month old - almost walking, happily eating solids, starting to talk! Today told our daycare to increase her A time and let her sleep no more then 3h total for naps. Hoping that helps.
Also, going on vacation with our whole family(8people) for 6 days should be fun... I'm about to loose my mind just thinking about it.
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Buntybear on January 04, 2017, 17:44:47 pm
Oh crumbs - guess you need to go with the flow a bit but also try and stick the routine where possible   :-\ :-\ - good luck!
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 04, 2017, 22:13:22 pm
Hi
Things are likely to be a bit crazy on holiday so I'd just go woth flow then and not worry too much about routine tweaks until you're back.

I think it looks like you're getting EW after days she has had 3hrs total day sleep but also done around a 12hr day. 
It looks like you get a more normal wu time (after 6) on days she has either slept 3hrs but woken early so has a 13hr day, or has woken at normal time & done a 12hr day but had around 2.5hrs total day sleep..
The exception is the Thurs to Fri when she had only 2 hrs total daysleep with a 13hr day then woke at 4.45 the next day. That one looksOT to me.

So..from all that, I think I would try keeping 2 naps & around roughly same times for naps and BT but maybe capping one of the naps at 1hr? 

Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: creations on January 05, 2017, 12:29:37 pm
Hi there - sorry I asked for your day care times and then disappeared, I had a vomiting virus and struggled to keep up with my threads :(
Back now though.

Looks like pps have already given great support. I can't really add to it.  I'd also agree at capping one nap to 1hr consistently so that day car and home days are as similar as they can possibly be. This really helps LOs to regulate their sleep.

The other thing (if day care agree) is to move all the naps and night by say 30 mins later.  This is a different aspect of the routine, rather than looking at sleep needs it is looking at moving times.  This is for instance what people do when the clocks change.  Ideally you also move all E times as these help LO know where she is up to in the day, this might not be so easy with day care unless they also can shift her E times?  So you'd move every thing 15 mins later day one then another 15 mins later day 2 and stick there.  This "should" make BT and WU 30 min later once she settles into it.
It works for a lot of LOs and is quite a normal shift for many with clock changes twice per year.  You'd then be looking at a 7/7.30 BT rather than 6.30/7 BT and morning should improve to more like 7am rather than 6.30am (I am not including the 4.45am EW here as that is a routine issue not a time moving issue).
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 06, 2017, 19:27:41 pm
Thank you ladies! I agree completely with all of you, she needs to have her morning nap no more then 1h. Also, in the last couple of days I tried moving her nap time from 9am to 9.30am and from 1pm to 1.15-1.30pm. And it helped! She sleeps no more then 2.5h total for naps now. BT is at 7pm and she woke up around 7am!!! Actually I had to wake her up today at 7.10!!! weeeeee. The only issue we have is - this happened when she was home with me, and this is what I got from daycare:

slept for 44 mins from 9:28 to 10:12
slept for 37 mins from 1:22 to 1:59

She was a mess around 6pm... I talked to them about naps and EWs but because she is in the youngest group, there is nothing they can do about little peanuts that eat/poop/cry every 2-3 hours....
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 06, 2017, 20:22:39 pm
If she has had shorter naps at daycare, could you put her to bed a bit earlier?  That should help avoid the evening mess and EW from being OT .  Some LOs do just sleep less at daycare, regardless of what the staff try.  Just so much going on and so many other kids in the sleep room together.
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 06, 2017, 21:50:16 pm
We have done it before, but it didnt change anything... She was still waking up around 4am-5am. But, right now, when she is so active and if she sleeps only 1 hour at the daycare, I just can not keep her awake till 7pm, she is miserable, and passes out at 6.30-6.45 no matter what we do...
Will see how it goes on vacation and after, please keep me in your prayers - Im gonna go insane with all that crawling on the hotel floor, sand eating, flying in the car seat (she hates that care seat sooo dearly), and the whole family telling us how to raise our baby.
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: Buntybear on January 06, 2017, 23:20:02 pm
I do feel for you (especially the family on holiday situation), but remember this is is for such a short period only. My baby was an awful sleeper and he turns 7 next week - it seems like a lifetime ago now!
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 06, 2017, 23:23:50 pm
Thank you! I hope so too :) Will post an update after we are back. Thank you all again!!!
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: creations on January 07, 2017, 09:46:07 am
Good luck for the holidays!!
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 28, 2017, 14:49:19 pm
Hi all the beautiful ladies :))

Just wanted to give you an update. So during our vacation my girl had her 2 top teeth! Im so happy for her, but you have no idea what I went through all these 5 nights, it was not a vacation... it was hell for me. She didnt have any fever but her night sleep was 5 min here and 10 min there...

Now we are home for a week and it's a mess. She want's to be held and thats it. I can't blame her, after grandma and grandpa spoiled her 24/7 for 6 days on vacation - thats what we are left with. Any advice on this? :( She used to play by herself right next to us with no problem, but now - it's insane.

When it comes to night sleep and naps, this is where we are: 2 naps - morning is 1 hour, afternoon - 1,5 hours. BT by 7pm. It helped with 4am wake ups. But we still have 5.10-6am wake ups. Im ok with 6am as this would give her around 13hours total. But every time she is up earlier then 6am - she is not herself for the rest of the day. She is not hungry, she is not in pain, she just cries till we get her and start our day. Also, I have noticed, if she cant find her pacifier when waking up after 4am - thats it, she would go into the crying coma. Maybe I should start weaning off the binky? She only has it in her crib and can fall asleep without it.

I am the only one who's baby wakes up that early at almost 10 month? I hear everyone say their babies sleep till 7am or 8am! How? :/ 
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: creations on January 29, 2017, 08:05:01 am
You are certainly not the only one who has a baby waking early at this age. Mine was always up early (5am, the 4.30ams were a killer, at one point I got us closer to 6-6.30am and then the clocks changed an hour!! making it 5.30 again).

10 months is a common time for sleep routines to change anyway and it's not uncommon to be tweaking a routine then have it disturbed by teething and then the 2-1 signs arrive.  With the 2-1 nap drop some stay on 2 naps for a long time, others drop to 1 quite early, mine was 11-12 months which is considered quite early.
She might need one of those naps a bit shorter to help her get a longer night now.  Probably reducing the morning nap as that is the shorter one already.
Want to post your EASY so we can see the times of WU, naps and BT?
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 30, 2017, 16:57:43 pm
Thank you for your support :)))

This is her EASY right now and for the last 3-4 weeks:

WU around 6am (anywhere from 4.45am to 7am) and play with me
E  7am - 8oz formula
A  8am - 4oz solids then play
S  9.30 NAP (no more then 1hour)
E  11am - 7-8oz formula and play
A  12.00 Lunch 4oz solids and play
S  1.30pm NAP (1.5hrs)
E  3pm - 7-8oz formula then play
A  4pm - snack (yogurt of puffs with fruit) 
A  5.30pm -  dinner 3-4tbsp cereal with 2oz formula then play
A  6.15pm - bath
S  6.45pm - 8oz formula and sleeping by 7pm

Some notes: She cant skip morning nap, we have tried but she would pass out by 10am no matter what we did. Also, we have a camera in her room and noticed sometimes space heater wakes her up a little if it turns itself on between 4am-6am and she can't go back to sleep and starts crying even tho still very sleepy :( Today she woke up around 4.45am, started to cry on and of till 5.40am... I made a mistake of going to check on her and she just lost it when she noticed me :( CIO 6am-6.15am and then fell asleep and woke up the happiest baby at 7am... I dont know anymore what to do...
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: creations on January 30, 2017, 18:54:45 pm
I would probably try moving both naps and BT later.  The A time doesn't really increase (well it does a little for a couple of days but longer term it is the same) it just moves everything on. The way we do when the clocks change.  You should be able to move everything on by an hour that way.
Nights might still be on the shorter side, looks like maybe a little OT before BT could be adding to the EW so I would try to reduce the last A time a little, maybe make BT 7.30 rather than 8pm when you shift the rest of the day by an hour.
What do you think?
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on January 30, 2017, 21:40:29 pm
I could try it...How long this usually takes? As I said - she is very sleepy by 9.30am and to keep her till 10am will be a struggle... same with BT past 7pm. Also, her daycare has a nap times at 9.30-11am and then 1.30-3/3.30pm and Im worried about that as she wont be able to sleep past 11am and 3ish pm as most of the kids will be up.

Im trying a different space heater tonight and will try to move her naps and BT 30min this week. Thank you again, will keep you posted
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: creations on January 31, 2017, 18:44:11 pm
A 1hr change for the clocks is usually done over a few days to a week depending on how sensitive LO is.
Some people do the shift all in one go whilst others move everything on 15 mins per day, there are a few different ideas here:
How to Adjust to Daylight Savings
and this one describes moving WU and BT over 4 wks but tbh I've never come across anyone here who has moved things this slowly
Moving Wake Up and Bedtime
What is often key is to move ALL parts of the routine, so moving feed times not just sleep times as these help LO know where they are in the day.

I can see how the day care nap times make this tricky though.  If you can't move the whole day on I would suggest trying an earlier BT to avoid OT before BT which can lead to OT EWs.
Title: Re: 9 months earlier and earlier wake-ups
Post by: peanutmom on February 01, 2017, 14:41:15 pm
now im thinking if its gonna take around 4 weeks, should we even start doing it if on March 12th we are moving 1 hour forward... Also, yesterday had to wake her up at 7am as she slept beautifully all night! But this morning omg :((((( 5am cry and now passed out at 8.30am...