ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: J-mum on April 19, 2017, 20:34:23 pm

Title: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: J-mum on April 19, 2017, 20:34:23 pm
I have a 7 week old and tryin to established easy but baby is a rubbish napper during the day. Always been great at night but recently getting more difficult to settle.
I always change nappy before feeding. (to prevent spit up) by the time we have finished feeding, burping and kept up right for around 15mins after feed its been around 45/50mins and time to settle back down.
She will only sleep between 10-35mins at a time when she wakes I know this isn't enough and can see she is shattered still,  i start trying to get her back over. By time she's goin over its feed time again so can't stay asleep and wakes crying for food and we start it all again.

Quite often she gets so exhausted that she falls asleep on the feed. Even then will only stay asleep max up to around 30mins.

I know she's overtired and as day goes on is why she struggles to sleep. It's like we are stuck in a cycle.

I feel from morning to night she is in my arms either feeding or I'm trying to get her to sleep, I'm missing out on quality time and playtime/tummy time with my baby because shes overtired and kicking off.
She wakes when I put her down, but still struggles to stay asleep when I keep her in my arms.

I feel constantly unwell because I can't  eat or drink proper, I need some suggestions please on how to rub out and start again so baby is more settled and can stay asleep and I don't completely hit the wall.
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: creations on April 20, 2017, 19:18:44 pm
Hello and welcome to BW forums :)

I'm not sure if you already had some replies to your post previously or not - we had a server change and lost a few posts during the transfer which is also why many of us have had difficulty connecting to the site today too.  All sorted now though.

Sorry to hear you are finding things so tricky just now.  I will say, the first few months with a new born are utterly exhausting, I'm sure many of us here would agree!  You have to do what you can when you can and do try to take care of yourself.  Such young babies really are hard work. Hugs.

Do you think there is a chance your LO might have reflux?  I see you've mentioned problems with spitting up after a feed which would be one possible sign but the highly disturbed sleep could well be due to discomfort.  Most babies this age will eventually crash out for a good length of sleep now and again even if they are OT (or due to OT) so for her to be so disturbed at every nap could well be down to more than just routine.
Does she feed okay?
Does she sleep well in a push chair or in a sling?
Any other health issues which might be impacting?

Could you post your EAS times please, it's helpful to see a full day of times if you have them. If not you can take a day to record them and then post.  This format is helpful:
WU (wake up) 7am
E 7am
A 1hr
S 8.00 - 8.30 (would not resettle)
A 1hr
S 9.30 - 10.00
E 10.00
and so on throughout the day with any short notes about what you did to settle her, and all the way up to
BT (bed time) also include
NWs (night waking) and
NF (night feed) or DF (dream feed)

It sounds like now would be a good time to call in back up if you have any - friend or family who can mind LO for you whilst you have a much needed nap/cuppa/walk and fresh air.
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: J-mum on April 21, 2017, 08:14:43 am
Hi thanks for replying. I had suspected reflux but doc disagreed.

Yesterday looked like this
WU 6:45
E 7:15
A UNTIL 8:14
S 8:14 - 8:20
S 8:45 - 9:06 (woke after 10mins)
S 9:20 - 10:15
A STARTS 10:15
E 10:25
A UNTIL 11:45
S 11:45 - 12:20 (wouldn't resettle)
A STARTS 12:20
E 13:12
A UNTIL 13:45
S 13:45 - 14:00 (wouldn't resettle)
A 14:00 - 14:53
S 14:53 - 16:00 (in periods of 8, 11,4,9,14 mins with resettling in between)
A STARTS 16:00
E 16:09
A UNTIL 17:14
S 17:14 - 17:49 (in periods of 26, 6 mins)
A STARTS 17:49 includes bath
E 18:53
BT 19:25 (slept well for 30mins then restless 40mins resettled still in bed)
Dream feed at 11pm (didn't wake)
*woke for next feed 1:15am*

I have tried multiple times to put her down drowsy but, awake but has never once worked it wakens her and she either is chatting or cries. At BT she falls asleep in my arms but I cam out her down in crib during the day if I do that she wakes.

She eats 3hourly but because she doesn't sleep well she's tired by feed time and starts closing her eyes while feeding. Sometimes she will stay asleep for up 20mins other times she won't go to sleep and will cry from feeding until she does fall asleep.
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: creations on April 21, 2017, 09:16:31 am
If you suspect reflux I suggest you go back to your doc and ask for a meds trial or a referral to a paediatrician (not sure where you are, just saying how it works here in the UK where I am).  The thing is, if you suspect it and your LO is so disturbed during sleep then really it needs to be followed up again.

Looking at your EASY times it seems you might be keeping her up a little too long, she might be OT (over tired) for her naps which can lead to more jolting (which wakes her) and inability to fully relax for the sleep. I would aim to have her asleep by 1hr to 1hr 15 mins max (I see in you have some A times of 1hr 30 which is more suitable for a LO of 3 months going on 4 months), this doesn't leave a lot of time to feed and get her nappy changed and very little play time but it is worth trying to see how it goes for a few days on the shorter A time.

You didn't mention in the EASY if each of these naps were in the cot or in arms but from your information it looks like she doesn't sleep well even in arms but that you have been trying to start some gentle sleep training.  I would put sleep training to one side for a short time, lets just see if she can sleep some regardless of help/props - over the next few days see if the shorter A time plus holding her or carrying her in a sling (with movement, walking, rocking patting, if needed) or in a push chair going for a walk can help her to sleep better.  I know ultimately this is not your goal, of course, the goal is for independent sleep and we can help with that but just for now lets see if she can sleep with full help for a few days and if her nap times improve.

It can also really help refluxers to be more upright when sleeping so a sling would be great, or if you need to put her down see if you can elevate the head end of her cot (cot safe wedges and/or cot blocks which have been safety tested.  Temporary solutions to try would be a folded towel or pillow under the mattress to give an incline but I would suggest you stay with her the entire nap to ensure safety), some push chairs have a setting for an incline which is safe for young babies.  Using a sling can also help with being more able to prepare yourself some food and get to eat it too.

I understand that right now you feel like you are holding her all the time and my suggestions about sleeping in arms/sling unfortunately are not giving you any additional Y time to get yourself something to eat or to take a break - I know - it is hard if you have a LO that isn't sleeping well which is why I think you need to head back to the docs to ask again about reflux and call in some back up if you have any.  Often friends and family are only too happy to help out but don't want to interfere and don't know exactly how they can help. If you have anyone, call them, set a time they are to arrive and be clear about what you need (come round I need to sleep. come round and make me some lunch, come round and hold LO whilst she sleeps so I can eat) and really make sure when they arrive you hand over LO and go and do something for yourself, even just for 30-60 mins, you might feel a little better.

hope this helps some
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: J-mum on April 21, 2017, 10:23:53 am
Hi thanks for coming back to me. I have been trying all week go get into see the gp, keep getting told fully booked. I will demand an emergency appointment on Monday if still get same response.

I have been trying to cut A time down because lo is without a doubt OT. I spend a great deal of A time tryin to get her asleep.
As much as I'd like her to go down for her nap she is so desperately tired that I've adopted the sleep were she lies.
I have her in my arms, sling etc and she still wakes up again.

I know u mentioned I'm tense about not getting time to myself but I'm more concerned about my baby. Ultimately I will do what she needs to be happy.
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: creations on April 21, 2017, 10:37:37 am
If you are in the UK you can just call your GP now and tell them your baby needs to be seen today.  They have to get you in.
I know many GPS are very hard to get a regular appointment for and always fully booked for the non-emergency bookings.  Sometimes you need to show that it *is* urgent and to keep going back in to show and tell them about how urgent it is.
Sorry - I don't mean to sound pushy with you, I only know what I went through with my own DS and how much I was told he was fine when he wasn't.  it took a long time to get meds for him and as a result I wish I'd pushed harder sooner because it made such a difference for him.
In our case I had multiple GPs and HVs telling me DS was fine, all babies cry, all babies spit up a bit and even if he was spitting a bit he was a "happy spitter". When I demanded a referral to a paediatrician we had to wait for the appointment of course but within 5 mins of entering the paedis office she had diagnosed him with silent reflux and was explaining the meds options available.  Literally 5 mins with the right person asking the right questions and even whilst talking with me she could hear my baby fluxing (he wasn't spitting) without even examining him.

Some times we just need a bit of support from outside to tell us it's okay to see a doc, again and again...the ladies here helped me enormously when I was in your shoes.
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: J-mum on April 21, 2017, 12:25:52 pm
I ended up phoning I decided I wasn't prepared to wait the weekend out. Receptionist took details and went spoke to the doc and called back with an appointment this afternoon. So fingers crossed we get somewhere.
Thanks for your post though because I was worrying I might be seen as a over paranoid new mum.
Hopefully once she's feeling more settled then we can get easy underway
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: creations on April 22, 2017, 07:47:32 am
Oh it's great you got an appointment.
How did it turn out?

Thanks for your post though because I was worrying I might be seen as a over paranoid new mum.
Very many of us have been there, we know how it feels.  I gradually learned (with much support from this community) that I need to advocate for my child, he can't speak for himself and needs my voice to be strong for him.  If it means banging on doors, making numerous repeated calls or whatever.
Mummy instinct is not always "paranoid new mum".
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: J-mum on April 22, 2017, 09:04:31 am
Thank you.
She has been prescribed gaviscon! Hurrah. I'm also thinking of changing her milk, her tummy is very noisy tryin to digest it so will be adding to discomfort. If it sorts through gaviscon then win win
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: creations on April 22, 2017, 17:46:43 pm
I'm glad that you have something to try.

Going on my own experience and the many threads I have seen on the forums I will say that gavi is not too popular.  My DS also started with gavi and many others too, it seems a first choice for meds from the GP and can help some but in many cases it seems to have a positive effect for a short length of time. If it turns out it's all you need then great, otherwise though just watch out for some possible decrease in the discomfort but then followed (possibly in a number of weeks) by increasing discomfort again.
After a spell on gavi my DS saw the paedi and was prescribed a reflux med and a milk thickener.  Gavi doesn't reduce the acid but puts a thick layer on top of the milk, in effect it is a barrier to try to stop the milk coming back up rather than stop the acid.

I hope for you and LO that you see some improvement and also some improved sleep. Let's see how it goes.
Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: J-mum on April 22, 2017, 23:17:38 pm
I had done a ton of research and would have preferred to stay away from gaviscon but gp says it's always first port of call. So have to try it and see.
I'm still scratching my head over her naps tho. She doesn't wake (majority of the time)  uncomfortable or upset but will just not stay asleep. I got her to sleep today and she seemed to be getting into a decent sleep, I looked down about 4-5mins later and there she was looking up at me with big bright eyes.
Id believe it was her tummy keeping her up if she was wakin crying which she does just occasionally.  when I put her down at night will sleep a good few hours and not wake only for feeds. I can put her down in her crib and she will have either fallen asleep in my arms and will stay asleep, or if she does wake its not for about 30mins and she will go back over without having to be lifted. But daytime she will not go to sleep in the first place anywhere by in arms and will wake the instant you try putting her down (in the event and stay asleep long enough to try)
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: creations on April 23, 2017, 08:04:52 am
So is the poor day sleep continuing after reducing her A time and with sleeping on you or in arms?  She still doesn't sleep more than a few mins?

I've asked for some additional support over here as the only things I can think of right now are reducing the A time, seeing if she can sleep longer with help and reducing the reflux discomfort.
Hopefully someone else will have some additional tips or support for you.

Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: J-mum on April 23, 2017, 08:22:13 am
Yeh its still continuing. This morning she started yawning after 40mins awake so I gave her her dummy and lay her in my arms and gently rocked her whilst pacing the living room she fell asleep around 15mins later without tears.  I kept the rocking and pacing goin. She appeared to be getting into a deeper sleep but she still woke after 18mins and I was still doin the rocking/pacing.
It doesn't seem to matter whether I put her down or keep her up in my arms she wakes up again. (used to be she'd wake mins after being put down)
There is no pattern to it either sometimes she can be sleeping for 6 mins, 13min, 20 or occasionally 30mins she will just wake up and rarely I get her over again with 20mins of her waking.
Now and then she will be so far beyond exhausted she will sleep in my arms for around 1hr but that isn't a daily thing as you'd expect with little sleep.

I believe she becomes OT then that affects the rest of the day I feel like if I can get good naps in the morning it would be easier to get her sleeping during the day.

Thanks for your help
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: jessmum46 on April 25, 2017, 19:05:04 pm
Hiya, just jumping on to offer another perspective and support :)  I see you've had loads of amazing advice from Creations already, really I would agree with everything that has been said so far.  But I'd also add that it may just be that for now she is a catnapper, rather than anything 'wrong' per se - as you said yourself you know when she is waking from discomfort, and that is very different from waking after a short time fairly happily.  I'm sure it feels like she has been around forever now but at 7-8 weeks she is still super-tiny, and I've read elsewhere that proper 'napping' and organisation of daytime sleep doesn't really happen until after the first 3 months - often called the '4th trimester'.  That fits with what I observed in my own two LOs - DD was a total catnapper, 7-8 very short mini naps per day for the first few weeks, and hard to get down for naps until around 10-12 weeks of age - brilliant overnight though.  DS was totally different, loved longer naps from earlier on (nights fell apart....but that's a different story!) but still didn't consistently settle in bed for naps and lose those mid-cycle wakings until around the 10 week mark onwards.  Don't think I did anything differently - other than perhaps to give DS less help!  What it illustrates though is that the range of normal sleeping for babies is huge, and my experience on here and with friends is that catnapping is pretty common.

It's easy for me to say with the benefit of hindsight, but if you feel like any potential reflux issues are now improved, I would try not to worry too much about what LO 'should' be doing (I well remember as a first-time Mum that I had the impression that everyone else's babies were following a perfect 'by the book' routine, and I was doing everything wrong) and focus instead on enjoying her.  We all here agree that sleep is good, but if your LO is happy most of the time, even on short naps, that's ok too.  I can almost guarantee you that the naps will improve with time - for now, it's enough to be surviving :-*  Take every bit of help that is offered (I wish I had been better at doing this) and keep telling yourself you are doing an amazing job - because you are!
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: J-mum on April 25, 2017, 21:46:32 pm
Thanks Jessmum. In all honesty I'm happy if baby is happy. My issue is she get totally overtired and is miserable. It's like she's shattered but can't stay asleep. The last two days I have really focused on getting more sleep from her. when she has woken I have got up again and Rocked/paced about with her and she will go over. Still wakes alot but goes eventually go back over. She is still tired alot but not as bad. Dunno how to help her stay asleep so she gets the rest she needs.
Title: Re: 7 week old need help with starting schedule
Post by: creations on April 27, 2017, 08:30:19 am
Thanks for stopping by Katherine x

J-mum - sorry to hear your LO is getting OT and miserable. It's totally exhausting when they need so much help to sleep isn't it.  I hope things are improving a little for you now.