BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: Martini~ on April 20, 2017, 17:25:52 pm
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I would kindly like to ask for your prompt help.
I am BF my 16wo. From last night I have a fever as having some throat infection. At 7:30 feed today I got no let down. Normal feed lasts 7-15min from one or both breast. Today DS2 sucked breasts for 20-35 and I generated no let down. I tried to pump but with no luck. However he was contented and lasted till 10:40 when I fed him. No let down. After 30min of feeding from both breasts I tried to pump and got some kind of a let down and 50-75ml of milk. Tried to offer him a bottle but he didn't want but I don't know if he doesn't like the bottle or was not hungry. 2:30pm feed - after 18min I got the let down - he fed. At 5pm I offered feed - no let down but he seemed not hungry as ate 2.5h ago. 7:00pm feed - after 15min let down generated, not sure DS was full after that feed but took only 20ml from bottle and didn't want more. He drinks very well from the bottle at DF 130-170ml but has problems with occasional day bottles.
Any ideas what's going wrong? Why I cannot generate let down? Is it fever? Am I dehydratated? Should I take Panadol to kick the fever even if it means intensive sweating and potential dehydration going harder.
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I'm guessing it could be related to being unwell, though it is good that DS seems not to be bothered by the difference. Perhaps you are getting some let-down, just not as intense/as much as usual, but still enough for him to feed ok?
I would keep yourself well-hydrated just in case and try not to worry too much - if DS is happy and contented likely he is getting plenty of milk even if it feels different to you.
I'm not sure I understand this bit I'm afraid:
Should I take Panadol to kick the fever even if it means intensive sweating and potential dehydration going harder.
Panadol (paracetamol) shouldn't cause you to sweat or dehydrate ???
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I felt that DS was ok but I am not quite sure he took during day as much as usual so a bit afraid of him waking MOTN. And at 7pm he was really frustrated that the let down didn't come I guess.
Panadol makes my fever go down. As a result I usually sweat (normal when you are killing the fever?). And that's the only thing I can correlate with loose feedings. Last night I took Panadol and was able easily to pump normal amounts of milk at 10:30pm but it was still a very beginning of the illness. At night I had shivers and was feeling extremely cold and than extremely hot/I sweat much/. In the morning I felt like I sweat whole night... and in the morning the problem started.
I am just afraid that my supply will go down, and that will be a very quick end of BF:(. I planned to BF till 5/6mo however and I am thinking if there is anything I can do to help ourselves.
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So - it seems that my adventure with breastfeeding is just ending.
For last 14 weeks I pumped around 5oz of milk at 10:30pm. Every day. Today I got nothing. Like nothing. As no let down. Which means what I suspected that DS didn't got what he needed at 7am and 11am feeds today and 5pm.
Sad. Never expected it will end like this and so quickly, so unexpected. He is at 8percrntile in terms of weight. I cannot allow myself for waiting and not feeding him.
Crying:(.
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(((Hugs))) Marta
Sorry you're ill and so worried too.
I had a similar drop in supply for a day or so when I had food poisoning and was BFing DD2. It did bounce right back again though when I was better and I was able to go back to BFing as before. So I wouldn't give up hope just yet. Hang in there, rest, get better and then see where you are.
((Hugs))
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Stay with it - you're ill, your body is trying to recover AND make milk, and likely it's prioritizing at the moment. Hang in there, make sure you're getting plenty of fluids, pump, rest, lather, rinse repeat. :-* :-* :-*
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Everything they said hun :-* this probably isn't the end, just a short-term blip while you recover. Let DS feed on demand for a bit and hydrate hydrate hydrate xx
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Dropping of more hugs. Get well soon xx
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Id a similar drop when ill. It went right back to normal After a day or two. Just keep feeding on demand and some skin to skin. It's also really important to try and relax as I found me stressing was almost inhibiting the letdown happening.
There is nothing wrong with being on the 8th centile for weight. So long as he is following a curve and not dropping through centiles. My DD1 was the 99th centile. DD2 was 2nd and this little lady is between the 2nd and 9th.
Feel better soon xx
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He dropped from 30th to around 10 as we went through 2 colds with him, but I guess it's still normal. I just wouldn't like him to go beyond that. But DS1 was similar, 3-8centile until formula and solids introduced.
Today I got the morning feed today - LD after 4min. There is a small progress. We prolong feed until he literally puts off the breast. I feed after naps as there is no demand from him LOL other than that. He survived yesterday somehow - my precious angel baby.
Good night, morning feed happening, and me feeling slightly better gives me small hope that there is still a chance to work it out. I just made myself melisa tea and try to rest until next feed.
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Ohhhh and thank you all so much for being here :-* :-* :-*
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How are you doing Marta? Xx
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Not good.
Friday was great, LD coming at very feed, yesterday morning 7am let down after 40sek. But at 11am it started again, no LD. At 2:30 I was not at home and didn't manage to feed but I managed to express (250ml!!!), he took the bottle with my milk - 160. At 5pm I tried but no let down but maybe it was too close to previous feed. At 6:30pm he was hungry for sure and we tried for 30min, no let down:(. He took the bottle after the feed 140ml - from what I expressed at 2pm.
At 10pm I expressed 240ml, he took a DF of 180ml. Today morning - no let down but he probably got something without let down as boobs were full, I felt that. I tried to give him a bottle - first time with a formula but he was not interested. Now we are heading towards my mum. I have bottle and formula with me. Will try to feed him as much as he wants but if during normal feeds time there will be no let down I will offer bottle. I stop expressing during day. I really have enough, it's making me terribly stressed and guilty and I need to make peace with myself.
Will try to feed and keep him a lot at breast but if it doesn't work, I am trying to tell myself I did everything and in the end fed is best.
But it's not easy:(.
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Sorry it's so rough. :'(
For a time I had to supplement w/bottle, even did some bottles of half-and-half (BM & formula) until I was able to get my supply back up again.
Do what you have to do for health and peace of mind. :-*
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I guess because of illness I have low milk supply and maybe that's from where the problem is coming. 11am LD after 6min, 2:30 no let down but he surely got some teeny tiny amounts as supplemented with formula after 15min of sucking when he started to refuse breast he took 50ml.
I am not quite sure for how long I will manage to cope like that as every attempt to breastfeed and not success gives me hope firstly and than leaves me with a great feeling of a failure.
Formula isn't such a bad thing... isn't it:(((? How am I so afraid? DS1 was supplemented for DF from 3.5mo and from 5/6 only on formula. DS2 is already almost 4mo. I have a full freezer of my breast milk so I can give him my milk 1-2times a day for next two months for sure. Even if I fail with BF, he won't be punished I hope:(.
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Formula is not bad, no, not AT ALL! When I had such a hard time with Josie's bad latch that I needed time to heal, for her evening feeds she got formula (mixed w/BM when I had some) while I pumped and all overnight feeds were bottles so my nipples could heal. Formula is literally what kept us BFing, since once I was healed, I went back to it 24/7 with more success. FWIW, we BF'ed until almost 16 months. Natalie went cold-turkey off the breast one bedtime at around 8 months, so SHE was the one who upended my plans! LOL I kept pumping for a while after that but after a few days my breasts weren't being fooled and they packed it in, and Nat got formula mixed w/what was in the fridge/freezer until it ran out, then she got formula while we finished transitioning to solids.
THE MOST important things are, in no particular order, to Feed Your Baby and to Take Care Of Yourself. Do those, and the rest have a habit of falling into place. :-*
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(((Hugs))) Marta
You are not failing your DS at all! Formula is absolutely fine. You have done a wonderful job BFing for this long :-*
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Something is wrong as it's another morning with problems with let down. I start to think and thought about my thyroid problems, I had Graves Basedow so hyperthyrenosis years ago but it has been inactive in recent years. But my doctor told me that it can activate after the labour. It didn't with Frank but I was told it was extremly rare as it's very common for this disease to raise after birth.
My DH yesterday told me that I awfuly sweat LOL, and that made me think - that yes, I feel it. I am wet, my whole body, when I start feeding. And that was one of the symptoms for me previously. I thought this excessive sweating was because of disease or temperature but maybe it's just a correlation. I am heading towards clinic for hormones to be checked (tsh, ft3, ft4) and will check if I am right. I read that reserach on rats shows that with HyperT the symptom is ... no let down and problems with milk ejection. If hormes are hugh I will probably will have to take metamizol which means stop BF (if the doses are high), but still it would give me a peace of mind somehow. As I would stop blaming myself for what's happeneing. Stop saying myself that I am weak. It would somehow mine that just the Graves Basedow activated...
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(((Hugs))) Marta. You`ve done great so far and you will continue to do your best, formula or bfing! There is no way that it is your fault!!!
I was wondering, do you have boza there? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boza Lots of women swear by it for the milk supply.
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Definitely a good idea to get your thyroid checked in any case. Pregnancy seems to have activated my own hypothyroid, and I've been reading that it's not at all unusual for pregnancy & delivery to be "triggering events" for thyroid issues. It would certainly explain why women are FAR FAR more likely than men to deal with thyroid problems.
~~~~~Vibes~~~~~ for a resolution for you.
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more ((hugs)) Marta. Hope you get some answers at the clinic. Whatever the results though, please don't feel that you are in any way weak. xx
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Hormones are fine, I feel like a failure.
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You absolutely are not, Sweetie. Sometimes our bodies let us down when we need them most. :-* :-* :-*
That said, have you had a look at the Edinburgh lately? I'm worried that you're putting yourself down a LOT over this... :'(
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Thank you Deb :* :* :*
I haven't recently done it but I know I am struggling in first months. It's just who I am and how I cope (or not LOL) with newborn and so little control over such a little baby. I had that with DS1 and somehow survived so I am pretty sure the sun will shine again soon also this time. Being honest I was feeling already much better 2-3 weeks ago. Just last 1,5 week was so tough. DS1 got sick on Easter and moaned for mummy from Sun till Thu non stop, not sleeping well and not eating well, crying half of a day, DH got sick on Wed morning - high fever and awful mood as he hates being sick, I got sick on Thu morning - shivers, temperature.
This problem with breastfeeding is devastating for me as I am somehow still without decision what next. Mixed feeding or maybe better said combined feeding (breast+bottle afterwards) is not working as DS is not a kid who loves bottles so I have a feeling that me trying to feed and failing makes him hungry as he will still not accept a bottle. Every feed is really difficult - it starts with a hope that our problems are over and ends with great satisfaction or a big disappointment. No matter which way we will go - I presume we will have to go either on bottles or breast 100%, as he prefers breast and is refusing bottles if not starving. And I will be fine with final decision - but right now I am just processing that. This way how it works now with this combined feeding is emotionally difficult and makes me ambiguous if he ate enough.
But I told myself 2 more days. If it's not going to improve, I will just go fully on bottles. And express or not. Will see what is going to work best for me.
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Hugs Marta. I`m sorry you are feeling that way.
I just remembered that around that age, I think maybe around 4,5-5 months I experienced the same. My milk supply was getting lower and lower. I vividly remember pumping at night and that was when I had most milk. I`d get 180-250ml (from one breast, the other one was always low supply and I could get maybe 20 ml) after a good dream feed. I stopped bf soon after that but managed to give that one bottle for a little bit longer.
Whatever you decide, you know you and your baby best and I`m sure that it will be the right decision for you.
xx
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Hi Marta,
Sorry to hear you're having such a tough time. Are you recovering from your illness at all?
Firstly, I wonder whether the issue with letdown may have started with illness but is being prolonged due to anxiety over waiting and timing LD perhaps? It can be hard to get a LD if you are stressed about it. Perhaps employing some relaxation and visualisation techniques might help? The same could be true of pumping. Your LO is more efficient.
Also, try not to worry too much as it is very normal to not notice a LD as baby gets older. I can't remember what age it stopped with my three but I'd guess it was before 6mo each time. They were still getting enough milk though.
Perhaps have a read through our Low Supply FAQ and see if you think you really have a supply problem and what you can do about it. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=263550.0
Your LO is still going a decent time between feeds so he doesn't sound hungry. I'd probably persevere with offering both breasts at frequent intervals.
Hugs x
ETA: I also meant to ask if you'd considered a supplemental nursing system if you want to him to continue getting the benefits of breast milk and he's not keen on the bottle?
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It got much better now, I met with a LC and she said that I should let my head off that and just feed, not counting any time etc. feeds during day are much more pleasant now. I am waiting for the LD definitely longer than a week ago - but I stopped counting minutes, just listen to some music and feeding and relaxing. However I have a problem with evening let down and not the time is a problem but LO being nervous. We are at 4mo now - exactly today! Probably wonder week. And two days ago evening was fine. We waited 10minutee maybe but it all came down, he got his milk. But yesterday firstly he didn't want to latch! I mean he was hungry, tried, after 10-15sec no let down so he got nervous and I fighted 10min for him to calm down and suck. Than another 10-15min for let down. It came when DH started to prepare milk for him ...
We did have problems with let down in the evening before that crisis but it usually meant 2/3minutes of us walking around the room and it went for him and he drank and it was fine. Do you have ideas how to tackle it?
We feed now 7:30, 11/11:15, 14:30/14:45, 18:30. There is a break between 3rd and 4th feed but for last 3 days he just refused feed around 5pm which we were doing until recently. So I moved evening feed earlier but not quite sure if I shouldn't move it even more. Like 6/6:15 and do bath afterwards. Maybe if he is less hungry, there will be less problems with him waiting for a feed? He has a DF at 11pm and than he goes till morning. Doesn't seem hungry, gaining weight, having wet diapers and poos. Feeds are big and all of them are both sided and at 22:30 I pump for DF and even with a pump I get 5oz every day. What's interesting I have a normal let down with a pump right now at 10:30pm but it is not working at 6/7pm LOL...
I also thought about a bottle at 6:30pm and pumping at 7pm when the kids are all down in their beds. Or using a pump before 6:30 feed. Wwyd?
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Can you jump in the bath with LO and feed there? That helped us through a tough spot with feeds at one stage, both of us being more relaxed, planning a long soak in the bath and just letting him latch when he was ready really took the pressure off.
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Not really as evenings are hectic here, I am trying to give some of my time to DS1. I am making myself shower at 6:15 now when DH starts to bath the baby but when I start to feed DS1 has a bath.
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Marta I think you must not worry. I had issue with ds not bf enough and I ensure you that he needed to feed every 2 hours because of that. I think you are very far from that :)
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I'd just follow the LC's above and just relax and feed x
Glad things have improved.
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sounds like you got some good advice from the LC Marta :)
How are you?
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have you tried pumping a bit till the milk flows then latching him on if he is stressing? or taking some fenugreek - made a massive diffrerence for me?
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It's still not working properly. I have good days even couple in a row and than once again problems. There is no tendency that something is going better or worse. It's just everything is fine than not fine and than ok again. I can have let down within a minute even in the evening and than no let down at next feed. Usually 11am feed is problematic. I try to offer breast whenever he is fussy but it's not working well and he is furious and I don't know if he is hungry tired or whatsoever.
I am totally fine with weaning now. He accepts bottle without problem if he is hungry but only with MY milk. He refuses formula but being honest I haven't yet gone 100% with it and we started from nutramigen. I only offered formula after fail feeds and usually during day as in the evenings I am offering my thawed milk from freezer. But it's not optimal solution. We are all tired with this situation - the whole family suffers.
So... I would like to go with formula right now. Do you think he will finally ACCEPT it? Nutramigen or any other milk? We were prescribed nutramigen because of his reddish cheeks and some skin rash but I am not quite sure he is allergic. Doctor said to offer normal formula if we have such a problem. Is it possible he will starve to dehydration without my breast when I wean drastically and start to offer only formula? As I said he drinks from the bottle very well however doesn't like the taste of formula I guess or maybe wasn't hungry enough.
Please help and tell me he will be fine...?
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Yes it's possible he will get dehydrated if you suddenly wean and he won't drink the formula. It would also be very hard on his immature tummy to go from breastmilk to 100% formula as formula is so hard to digest in comparison. I'd definitely wean gradually to avoid these problems and the issues you will get with blocked ducts etc if you wean suddenly.
Some mothers have success with mixing an ounce of formula with the rest of the bottle pumped milk and then gradually increasing the percentage of formula until they will accept it straight. Might this be an option?
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Remind me how long its been? Just wondering if you're in a monster growth spurt? Even I with my crazy oversupply had times like this with GS.
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He took a bottle of formula yesterday instead of breast when I pumped. This is an angel baby... it wasn't nutramigen however but normal formula based on cow's milk. No significant change vs yesterday in terms of his skin so maybe we will be released of nutramigen.
Bec, he seems to be in some growth spurt now as is much more hungry than he was 4-5 days ago. But still this let down problem is already present for 2 weeks. Don't know where it is coming from but yesterday he took formula for an afternoon feed so I guess we will be able to feed him with it when breastfeeding is problematic what takes off much pressure from me. I am more than happy with giving him breast as much as he wants but if there is no let down and he is genuinely hungry he doesn't even what to suck long enough as is getting impatient. Yesterday he took 170ml of formula around 2:30pm and than was dying of hunger at 5pm when 3/4 days ago he was not hungry until 6/6:30.
I am just accepting what's happening here and making peace with the fact that something is wrong but I don't don't what it is or how to fix it. It happens randomly, no matter how much he ate before, how stressed I am, what is the time of the day. Seems some hormonal block in my opinion or some kind of underlying illness or maybe tiredness but what else can I do except from accepting that? Even if it's tiredness or stress or whatever similar i am doing what I can to relax and rest and if it's not working I have to accept it.
This case with bottle and formula was stressing me - the fact that he won't drink formula or from the bottle if not starving but it seems to be working better now so I know we have an option. I am also much more motivated to breastfeed as I know it's and option not an obligation and only option. It was really huge pressure to know that I so much want to continue, he seemed to prefer it and we still weren't successful. Made me interpret his every moan or cry as a hunger cry which is not true.
Still your support is so welcomed. Contacted LC and doctor yesterday but none of them were much of a help:(.
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Glad for you that he took the formula and it's taken some of the pressure off.
That is a lot of milk to take in one go. Are doing paced feeding? If you stretch his tummy by letting him have large quantities of formula in one go it could negatively affect the breat feeding relationship. Paced feeding let's LO stop and realise he is full before guzzling too much milk before his brain gets the signal. Just something to think about if you want to continue the BFing.