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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: mommykay410 on April 21, 2017, 00:40:47 am
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My DD just turned 2 and has been back to having difficulty falling asleep by herself for over a month now. It is quite frustrating at 9 months pregnant to be bending over her crib with my hand every so slightly on her back for an hour at night. She has fallen asleep on her own for almost a year give or take a few days/weeks here and there when I end up having to help her again, but she gets back on track pretty quickly. This time seems to be lasting forever though. In the past month, there have been 2 nights that she has not cried eventually and I have not had to go up at all. Some nights it is as soon as I lay her down and walk out of the room, other nights she lays down and talks to herself for a while but then stands up at the side of her crib and starts crying. I usually give her a few minutes and then go up, but there hasn't been a night in this round where she has stopped crying on her own before I go up. Sometimes she wants me to hold her when I go in, but most times she will lay right back down as soon as I go in and lay my hand on her back. I have done wi/wo before at least 3 different times over the past year, but that does not seem to be working at all this time. As soon as I pick up my hand from her back she is already popping her head up to see if I am still there, and as soon as I start walking toward the door she is immediately crying. I still continue to walk out and count to 10 before going back in, but her crying only escalates each time, making her more tired and taking even longer to fall asleep. There is definitely no gradual increase in the amount of time between when I have to go back in. But as soon as I walk back in she immediately stops crying and lays back down waiting for me to put my hand on her back. I'm not sure what else to do at this point to get her back on track with falling asleep on her own consistently. There is no way I am going to be able to deal with this once the baby is born in less than a month, so she needs to get this figured out again before then. I know some nights she is like this because she is OT, but it seems like there is a millisecond of a window for that lately. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
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Hi there, goodness your back must be broken.
Can you post her day so we can see it needs a tweak?
I would prob try a bit of GW, give your back a rest, sit near her but just use your voice to reassure her.
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WU between 6:30-7, usually around 6:45, but if not up by 7 I wake her
1-3 nap (If at daycare she sometimes falls asleep at 12:45/12:50, at home it's usually 1:05/1:10. Sometimes she wakes up at 2:45, other times I have to wake her, no later than 3:25)
6:40 bath, stories, milk
7:20/7:30 take to her room and sing songs, lay down in crib ~7:40
~8:15 falls asleep
She used to fall asleep between 7:45-8 but for the past 2 months it's been no sooner than 8:15, and sometimes as late as 8:45/9 if she is OT or riled up. IT doesn't seem to matter whether she lays down a little earlier or a little later, she still takes forever to fall asleep, whether she is talking herself to sleep or I have to be in there. It is most frustrating when she is laying there talking to herself but won't let me leave the room, because she is obviously fine. Today she only napped for an hour at daycare so I figured she'd be super tired by bedtime, but she didn't even yawn. I laid her down at 7:35 and she was crying at 7:37. As soon as I walked in the room she laid right back down and then looked up at me to see if I was going to rub her back. I told her I would rub her back for a minute and then I was going to go. As soon as I started to walk away from the crib she was already complaining and then crying. And the cycle continued with her not acting like she was going to sleep anytime soon. She finally fell asleep at 8:30 with me hovering right above her. I tried to sit on the floor next to her crib like I have in the past, but she stood right up and looked at me whining "mommy". The last time she pulled this at bedtime a couple months ago I was able to lay on her floor until she fell asleep, but I don't want to get in that habit because then if she wakes up at night for any reason she will expect me to be there.
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So sorry thought I had replied.
It sounds a little like SA, you may have to just adopt the sir near the cot but every time she wants you just pat the mattress and say shush night time now and turn away, just keep repeating etc.
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She is only like this when I put her to sleep. When DH put her down the other night he laid her down at 7:25 and she was asleep within 15-20 minutes on her own and not a peep out of her all night; I had to wake her up after 7 the next morning. In order for her to let him do her bedtime routine though I can't be in the house otherwise she will just cry for me, so I have to leave if he is going to put her to bed. Last night when I put her down again she wouldn't even let me lay her down in her crib and attempt to walk out before she was already clinging to me whimpering like I was going to leave. I was stuck in there until 8:30 when she finally fell asleep. Of course now she has a cold again, so she was up crying at 10 and 1:30 because her nose is stuffy and she was coughing. I know you aren't really supposed to do any kind of sleep training when they are sick, so I'm hoping that once this cold goes away she may be out of this phase, but not counting my chickens before they hatch. This is the longest stretch of time that she's done this with not laying down on her own.
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Oh poor thing colds are just a nightmare aren't they. Well I'd try and be consistent and then tackle it when she's better.
She might be anxious that the baby is on the way and that's why she's particularly hard work for you at BT.
I'd get DH to do BT, you go have a relax ;)
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From what I've been reading, this is definitely the 2 year sleep regression in full force. :-\ DH was able to put her down two nights but then the following night she was crying for me so I went up and put her down but ended up having to hold her until she was almost asleep because she wouldn't let me put her down. Last night when I put her down she did lay down but as soon as I left the room she started screaming for me. I gave her about 3 minutes before going back in. She let me put my hand on her back but wouldn't let me sit down at all; I had to be kneeling next to her crib. If she turned her head the other way I would sit down and as soon as she realized it she would stand right up and whine "up Mommy". She didn't fall asleep until 8:30 with me in the room, and then was up at 11:50 crying for me. I went in and she laid right back down so I put my hand on her back for a little and then when I thought she was asleep I left but 5 minutes later she was crying for me again. I was finally able to leave the room at 12:45, only for her to be up again at 2:50, this time taking until 4 til I was able to leave because she kept picking her head up to see if I was still there. When she woke up at 6:30 she was crying for me again, which is not typical because she usually talks to herself when she wakes up in the morning and I go in closer to 7 to get her. I'm definitely going to have to do something to get her back to not having me there when she falls asleep, otherwise a bad habit is going to form real quick. DH is putting her to bed tonight because she is way OT due to only having a 25 minute nap in the car today on the way home from a dr appt.
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Often after the regression things just go back to normal, or she will be easier to re sleep train.
I'd prob try the kneeling next to her but no interaction and then after a few days try moving away and see if things have changed.
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Well at this point things are getting worse by the minute. Now I don't even have the option of DH putting her to bed because she just cries for me the entire time he's upstairs with her or leading up to when he comes upstairs. And all day long she is constantly crying or whining for me to hold her. I can hardly take a shower without her getting upset.
And now she is waking numerous times throughout the night. Last night she wanted to go to her bed at 7:10 and leaned to actually lay in her crib so I figured I'd try to do wi/wo, but her crying only escalated louder each time I walked out. She didn't end up falling asleep til 8:35, and then was up at 10:30, 1:00, 3:30, 5, 5:15, 5:40, and 6:20 crying each time. It would only take 10-15 minutes for her to fall back to sleep as long as I went in, but she was expecting me to be there every time she woke up. Tonight he tried to put her to sleep and she just screamed for me until I finally just went in and held her because I knew she wasn't going to stop anytime soon. She ended up not falling asleep til 9:00 now, and I'm sure she will be up at least twice tonight and super early tomorrow morning. This needs to end right now because I am due in a week and I cannot have them both waking every 2.5 hours. I'm sure with the way things are going that she will wake up at the exact same time as him or right in the middle of a feeding and scream bloody murder until I go in to her. I am so frustrated, I'm about to just let her cry until she exhausts herself to sleep. I cannot keep going on less than 4 hours of sleep a night at 9+ months pregnant.
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Sorry I've not been about work has been busy and my youngest is teething with a vengeance ;)
How have the last couple of days been?
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Each night gets progressively worse. Last night I tried to wi/wo but she just got louder with her crying and screaming at the top of her lungs with each time I walked out. So I ended up being in there when she fell asleep anyways because she was clung around my neck. She fell asleep at 8:20 and then was up at 10:30, 1:20, 5:15 and then wouldn't go back to sleep so I ended up laying on her floor with her for a while because there was no way I was letting her be up for the day at that point. Thankfully she took a good nap at the sitter today. But tonight she didn't fall asleep til 8:25 and said "mommy" about a thousand times, everytime I leaned back from against the crib or motioned like I was going to put her down. After her bath now she won't even stay in her room with DH and let me go into our room to get ready for bed without crying for me as soon as I call for him to come upstairs. I just wish I knew when the end of this will be. I just can't begin to fathom how this is going to go when the baby is here. Hopefully he learns to sleep through her crying, otherwise he will never get on a sleep schedule with the rate she's been crying.
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Oh dear it sounds a bit like SA, it can peak again around 2 yrs. there will be an end honestly there will just sometimes feels like it won't ever end.
The newborn will get used to noise my second sleeps through lots more noise.
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Hi mommykay. I have been reading your thread with interest since I am going through something similar with SA (but I am not pregnant).
My impression is that your little angel is learning that if she shouts loud and long enough it will be you instead of DH coming. She knows that she will get her way because it is working. Everytime you give in with this, it reinforces the message. Leaving her to CIO would be very hard option... so here goes my suggestion:
For bed time only your DH goes. For the NW only DH goes to sooth her. When your new born is there that will be the case, so it is good that it happens before.
I would get (I have got) a confortable armchair next to the crib. You/your husband can sit there and put your hand in her back, or even better if you just give voice reasurance. She can cry with you there becuase she is used to something different but you can explain that this is what you/DH can give her now. You will have some tears until she gets the message, but the tears will be with you in the room and she will not feel abandoned (so this is not to let her CIO).
I agreewith Hariboo that gradual withoawal could be good and perhaps not repeat the WI.
What do you think?
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Thanks for your reply. Last night was the worst yet...she was up at 11:40, 11:55, 12:55, 2:10, 4:25, 5:40, 6, and then 7 for the day. When I went in at 4:25 I just stayed in there on the floor to sleep because I knew she was going to get up multiple more times and I wanted to avoid the super early waking like the day before. I can try having DH put her down tonight and see how that goes. He needs explicit instructions though because he has never been the one to put her to sleep like that while she is crying. Normally she just lays right down for him and falls asleep on her own. Unfortunately I can't have him be the one going in during the night right now because he has to work, so he needs his sleep for safety purposes as he drives all day. I am hoping that now that I will be home with her all day again, this phase will pass quicker, but it doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon. She is also congested, so that's not helping with her sleep either. I think as long as I can get her to fall asleep on her own again the NW will stop. I don't like letting her cry in the middle of the night for lengths of time because the longer she cries the more awake she gets and then it takes longer to get her back to sleep. I especially don't need her crying loud and long when the baby is here because I need him to sleep. Any chance she is going to just snap out of this one day and go back to falling asleep again?
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A lot of it could be developmental as there are big leaps coming up to birthdays so she may just improve. Did you give meds at any of the NW?
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Have you thought about reducing her nap? Reading through besides the developmental things it sounds very like she could be UT at bedtime and therefore putting up a fight. I'd be tempted to cut to 1.5h max and see if she can settle better? I often found developmental leaps meant less sleep, and I'd suspect the 2h nap may be robbing her night a bit x
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This does sound like SA and there are a bunch of things happening, the big ones are:
- turning 2yo, birthdays area always the times of sleep disturbance here
- SA, normal at this age and the developmental leaps
- SA, she knows a baby is coming and needs to confirm her place in the family and be reassured she is still cared for
then also but perhaps less so:
- possibly needing less day time sleep, she is taking about 2hr nap I think and some totally drop their nap at 24 months, yes it's on the earlier side but it is not unheard of. Mine thought he wanted to drop his nap at 25 months but it took 6 months of faffing around before he finally did it
My own didn't do well with capped naps so although I tried it I had to find other ways to come to terms with the change in sleep needs and routine - the options are cap the nap so she is more tired for night sleep (and just less energy for all those call backs) or accept she isn't going to go to sleep until later and move BT significantly later. This can make night sleep very short but the long day nap more than compensates (well it did for mine, he kept his 2hr nap until 31 months then dropped it cold turkey).
With the SA and call backs - heaps of Mummy time whenever you can in the day of course, I think you are already doing this. Then here's what I'd do:
- never leave her waiting. The second she calls for you even if it is not crying it is "mummy" you go. Reinforce that you *always* attend to her whenever she needs you. (when I say you I mean you or daddy). for this reason I would suggest camping outside her room at BT with a book or a cuppa, or both.
- when you go in to respond to her first time go right in and do what is normal, quick back rub or whatever you would usually do. Always tell her before you leave the room, never sneak away. BUT you are not her prisoner and you will not be held prisoner and you will not let her dictate where you sit - she needs to know this and at the same time needs to know she is safe and always responded to. When you leave the room say "night night, call if you need me".
- If she cries and fusses right away repeat "everything is fine, go to sleep, call if you need me" and leave the room - you can stop outside the door
- the second she fusses or calls you, you are still outside the door use verbal reassurance "I'm here, go to sleep"
- if she cries hard go in, back rub etc and then when calm, "call if you need me" and leave
- continue with a combo of WIWO and verbal reassurance from outside the door because you do need to get out of that room and shift your position of where she is happy for you to be whilst still building and maintaining her confidence. (note, she is confident in you when you are under her control standing at the cot, she loses confidence when you step away, it is up to you to move this position of confidence. You need the position to end up being you downstairs again - it will be after this phase passes).
- if she is crying and you walk back in and she stops crying, lies down and is quiet again (it sounds like this is happening) do not walk a step further, just say "go to sleep" and leave. then she calls again and you are outside you say "go to sleep" - you can be quite "instructional" with your tone of voice (firm - call it teacher voice? it is not shouting or telling off it is giving clear instruction of what you expect her to do), show her in your tone that you are confident that this is absolutely the right thing to do right now and that you absolutely know she can do it. I say this because personally I feel with SA LOs need to know they are utterly safe and part of that is hearing the confidence in your tone rather than trying to cajole her into sleep. Make sense?
- if she tries to chit-chat after BT. First time I would say "This is not time for chit chat. This is night time, go to sleep" but not engage in her chat or answer her questions, next time reduce down to "go to sleep".
- if she is babbling happily when you are outside the room you can decide to let her continue (until you have to respond because she calls you) or you can choose to reinforce the instruction "be quiet, go to sleep".
I've had a couple of phases like this with my DS (when he was younger). I did best when I took a book and a cuppa up with me, say goodnight as usual and then get comfortable outside his door where I could verbally reassure. I will say though that as I have not been fortunate enough to have a second child I have not dealt with the SA which comes during pregnancy and when a new baby comes home. I think I would deal with it in the same way.
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Haribo,
No, I do not give her any meds when she wakes up at night. I just put my hand on her back for a split second or sometimes have to pick her up for a minute and she is pretty much back to sleep within 5 mins.
Jessmum,
Her naps have been closer to 1.5 hrs lately since she's been falling asleep around 1:10 and waking up crying for me at 2:20. She is definitely tired at bedtime as she is the one who tells me she wants to go in to bed and is rubbing her eyes and yawning. When she would let DH put her to bed last week she would be asleep by 7:45 on her own compared to the 8:25 drawn out with me in the room.
Creations,
Yes, definitely SA to the extreme. She has always had issues with separation, sometimes I can't even go upstairs to take a shower without her crying downstairs the whole time with DH. She is definitely not ready to drop her nap, as she gets majorly OT on the rare days that she takes a short one for whatever reason. She either takes forever to fall asleep because she is so wired, or she falls asleep almost instantly (not during this phase of course).
I tried to follow your plan tonight when I put her down, but the problem is she won't even let me put her down. She clings to my neck and literally climbs up me saying "mommy" before I even make a motion to leave the room. Every time I tried to lay her down she just clings harder and starts crying already. I got out of the room about 3 times and tried to verbally reassure, but each time she just started crying as soon as she touched the mattress because she knew I was going to leave. She didn't lay down at all, she stood at the side of her crib crying until I picked her up. So she will definitely be up tonight because I wasn't even able to just be in the room when she fell asleep, I was holding her when she fell asleep because she practically had me in a choke hold. And once she was asleep and I went to lay her down she was crying again until I held my hand on her back to keep her laying and asleep. I will try again tomorrow night and see if she makes any progress, but so far every night has gotten a little worse than the previous.
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It does sound very hard. The thing is, and I mean this in the nicest way, you are reinforcing that if she clings on and cries longer she will get what she wants which is sleeping in your arms out of bed (and then crying again in when you put her down). Whilst I do not mean for a moment that you are to reject her (not at all) there is only you who can shift her to a position of less anxiety where she is more confident to go into her bed. It is the same for little babies, very many of them would love to sleep in arms all day and can keep a parent prisoner by crying long and hard until they get to sleep in arms - the shift comes when you are still supportive but clear on what the boundaries are and she learns (or re-learns) that she is still cared for and loved (that never changed) but you are not going to continue to be held prisoner.
As you've mentioned her nap is getting shorter how about shifting it 30 min later to 1.30pm and seeing if she can get a better nap? Mine would wake crying after an UT nap because he needed more sleep than that and like I said before he was one of those who needed to keep his long nap but a shorter night until he was ready to totally drop the nap. It does mean a later WU from nap and this will likely require a later BT too. The nights may well be shorter as a result but the overall sleep would be enough. You might find that with a better nap again she is already in a better mood and not so clingy. It looks like her nap is down to 1hr 10 min some days which mine would have just fallen apart with.
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Was just checking with meds in case there were any teeth in the move.
Do agree with creations and in the nicest way you have to kind of put your hard shell on and be there but be firm and say no more picking up etc it's time for sleep. The multiple wakes are because she's used to you cuddling her back off. I remember a phase with DS1 around this age where I spent a long time sat on the floor at the end of the cot repeating "it's ok time to sleep now" I know it's of no consolation to you but once I fell asleep against the wall ;D
I'd try really sticking to not picking her up if you can and she should get the idea fairly quickly...before baby 2 comes hopefully :-*
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So when I first go to put her to bed and am holding her, should I lay her down despite clinging and crying, and walk out then walk right back in to reassure and not pick her up at all regardless of how hard she cries or reaches, or should I not walk out when she is crying? It could be a good 20+ minutes for her to relax enough for me to put her down if I wait til she isn't going to cry. And I should wait til she is calm before leaving again regardless of whether she is laying or standing? When I walk out, should I try to reassure her with my voice first even if she is crying, or should I immediately go in until she is starting to calm? She seemed to be more ok last night the first 2 times I went out and was more just whining rather than crying, but after that the crying escalated each time I left.
As far as her naps, they are only shorter like that for me. When she is at the sitter or daycare she generally naps from 1-2:30/3 depending on the day and is fine when she wakes up. Yesterday was the first day in a while that she woke up content from her nap for me, even though I had to pat her to sleep. I think that stems from daycare though, because I'm pretty sure that they pat her to sleep there. Their schedule is nap at 1, so that's why I have her at that time.
When you dealt with SA with yours, how long did it last? I am hoping that maybe when I am in the hospital and she is with my in-laws that she will snap out of it because she doesn't have the option of me being there. But I'm also preparing that things are just going to get worse when the baby is here because she will be away from me for a few days, which she has never done, and then will have to share me when I come home.
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It's more kind of do to with getting your head and approach in the most helpful state to be successful rather than a very strict "step by step you must follow this" script of exactly what to do. Some examples which might seem kind of off topic but might help explain the place where your head and approach needs to be (as Zoe said, putting your hard shell on):
- if a LO is told to hold hands when approaching a road but refuses do we just let them run into the road or do we make sure we grab them with a firm grip? We use a very firm voice with instruction "hold hands" "danger!" and at some quieter time during the day away from roads we might explain in a more complex way what the danger is, what the rules are, use toys to role play
- if a child grabs a dog/cat/other child in a vice like grip being friendly or in anger what do we do? Let them continue? Or remove them with gentle but firm hands using the amount of force required but not being mean to them, "let go!" At a quiet time we might practise and role play how to touch with gentle hands, we demonstrate and use safe props to practice with, reinforcing positive instruction "use gentle hands".
- if a child reaches for a hot oven, a glass vase, a sharp object we don't let them continue we stop them "leave it" or if it is more pressing "danger! stop!"
It usually doesn't need shouting or telling off and never needs to involve rejection of the child but it does require the parent to be very firm, very clear and there to be NO leeway or negotiation.
During this SA and your LOs BT routine you are leaving the doors wide open not only to negotiation but you are handing her the responsibility of how things are going to go. Too much power for a LO can leave them in a bit of a tizz as they want you to be in control, and this in turn helps them to feel confident in you.
I would begin way before BT, have a chat, she can understand what you say even if she can't form complex sentences. Tell her exactly what is going to happen at BT and exactly what is expected. Show her with dolls/cuddly toys. Be clear that she is very important to you and you will always always keep her safe and will always come when she needs you. Be clear that she is not to cling to you or you will have to remove her and this might be upsetting. Tell her you don't like it when she clings and you want BT to be lovely cuddles and smiles and happy time so she can go to dream land and have a lovely dream. See if you can get her to agree (doesn't mean she can/will follow through later but you are setting the ground work and can keep practising).
Then, personally if my kid was clinging, he would hear a very very firm voice - "let go of me" and I'd give him a chance to let go nicely but if necessary I'd remove him off me.
The danger of picking up again once she is in the cot is that she will again cling to you. If this repeats I would tell her firmly that you are not going to pick her up at all but you will not leave her. If she can indicate that she understands this and will not cling then you can give her another try (I'd only give one extra try) for a calm cuddle and when it's time to go back into the cot she must go down without clinging, warn her "Remember our deal, you don't cling to me, you cuddle then let go. I'm going to put you down now and I will stay with you, let go sweetie". And put her down. Clinging again, firm voice and remove her. And for me - I just wouldn't pick up again. I'd sit in the room if I had to and I would reassure with voice. "I'm here, you are safe. Go to sleep"
If she stands in the cot screaming at you, again instructions "sit down" (often easier to follow this step first) then "lie down" "go to sleep". I would not tell her not to call you and I would not tell her to stop crying.
I wouldn't hold out for her snapping out of it just because she stays with someone else for a few days. LOs learn habits with different care givers very quickly. My DS was basically forced to learn to take the occasional nap in a pram with my mother, there is not a hope in hell he would ever do that with me looking after him, he needed his cot or the car seat and that was that. Nursery or in-laws can have their own methods of putting LOs to sleep but its *with you* that she has the difficulty and that's partly because you are her primary care giver so she needs you more, plays up with you more, lets out her emotions with you and it's also partly because for a little while you have given in to her demands and she's learned to cry hard and get you to pick her up at nap time and BT and through the night. I'm afraid only you can make this change.
SA is horrible and certainly all LOs go through it, we do need to give them additional time and support at such tricky times for them, but this is where longer term habits can form too.
should I lay her down despite clinging and crying, and walk out then walk right back in to reassure
I personally would not walk out the room. I would put her down and stay in the room.
And I should wait til she is calm before leaving again regardless of whether she is laying or standing?
I think somewhere you said she would stop crying as soon as you walked in and then be happy chatty and lay down. If she is not crying then leave. If she is crying then stay. She does not need to be calm or asleep or even trying to fall asleep for you to leave but she needs to be not crying (shouting in an angry or frustrated voice is not crying, it is angry, this is an example of when I would leave the room and stay outside saying "be quiet, go to sleep". If she calls your name respond verbally or by going in.
Keep in mind there are thousands of parents who cannot pick up their children because they have a bad back of RSI in the arms (from holding children too long) or a disability, recovering from operations or a whole number of reasons. They can usually still deal with SA and be with their child to reassure them without picking up. The love is not less, the care is not less. It is simply a matter of not picking up and working out another way to reassure.
I know this is not an "answer" but hope it helps.
I think if the nap can't move I'd put her to be significantly later. 30 min later than you usually do.
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:'( Definitely don't know how I'm going to handle doing this. :'( I told her before bed exactly what I was going to do, and she repeated it all back to me but obviously didn't comprehend a word. I sang her songs, she gave me a hug and a kiss and started crying the moment she felt I was going to lay her down, but I put her down anyways. I reminded her that I wasn't going to pick her up, and then she spent the last hour plus crying blood curdling screams while I stood next to her repeating "you're ok, lay down and go to sleep" about 5,000 times. She was delirious and couldn't even stand straight from standing so long and crying so hard, and was practically hyperventilating. At one point about 40 minutes into it she got mad that I was standing next to her and not picking her up and hit me and threw her doggie across the room. Eventually I couldn't take standing there that long and watching her get that upset while repeating the same things over and over again that she couldn't even hear because her crying was so loud, so I ended up picking her up to settle her down and she was asleep almost instantly. I know I'm not supposed to give in after all that because it makes all the crying and work up to that point useless, but I was about to lose it and start crying myself seeing her like that. I'm always afraid that putting her through that is just going to cause more sleep anxiety because she knows what is going to come at bedtime. I don't know if I should just wait to try again until after the baby is here and hope that the SA eases a bit because I don't want to be in the middle of this torture and then go into labor and not be here when she wakes up then because that is only going to make things worse. Or if I should try again tomorrow and hope for better results. With being due in 2 days, I don't know if I will end up having the time to be consistent, or if I will just have to start over again after the hospital.
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You can only do what you feel happy and comfortable with and if you want to stop then that's totally up to sweetie we can only tell you what experiences we have had.
One thing to remember is that sometimes it comes down to who has the strongest will...you or her and last night she held out.
I don't think waiting a few days will hurt so if that's stressful for you then pop back when you have had the baby, but if you want to carry on we will be here to hold your hand x
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I fully agree with the advice from Haribo and Creations.
My suggestion would be as well not to leave the room (that step is a little bit too far away at the moment since you need to re-gain the trust of your LO), but get yourself some good ear plugs, or headphones with relaxing music to be able to cope with the shouting. Also I would make myself confortable and would get a good armchair or matress to be with your child in a relaxed position. This was also suggested in the Secrets of the baby whisperer book or in the BW for todlers, I read both. One of my 2 children was pretty much the same as yours, and I can assure you that if you are consistent you will make the situation improve. You need to be in control of the situation, and be the one setting up the rules. Your LO is learning!!! This is key for the wellness of your LO and yourself.
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Well she did only wake up once last night at 1:30, but I think that was because she was so emotionally exhausted. It took me a little longer than normal to put her back to sleep, and I did hold her then because I did not need her being up for hours, but she slept til 6:20 this morning then. I guess I will try again tonight and see if it gets any better.
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You can only do what you feel happy and comfortable with and if you want to stop then that's totally up to sweetie we can only tell you what experiences we have had.
One thing to remember is that sometimes it comes down to who has the strongest will...you or her and last night she held out.
I don't think waiting a few days will hurt so if that's stressful for you then pop back when you have had the baby, but if you want to carry on we will be here to hold your hand x
Yes, all of this.
If you are trying again tonight I would say to expect longer crying rather than shorter. Unfortunately this is hard. Keep reminding yourself though, you have no abandoned her, she is angry and frustrated but she is not in danger.
Maybe settle yourself by her cot on a chair so she can see you are not going, maybe try facing just slightly away from her, only in the sense of not making full on face to face eye contact all the time which can be a bit, erm, what's the word, confrontational? Not really the word I want but perhaps you understand what I mean.
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Her will was stronger than mine again unfortunately, although I made it longer than last night. :-[ After 2 1/2 hours of nonstop screaming, not even a second of calm or attempting to lay down at all, I drew the line at 10:00. She could've gone on for hours longer like that and never fall asleep at the rate she was going. And she will now be miserable all day tomorrow because she will be getting such little sleep since this is 2 hours later than she normally falls asleep. I picked her up and laid her right back down after about 30 seconds, mostly because I had a pinched nerve that was literally not allowing me to stand anymore without jolting and folding over in pain. I'm wondering if me staying in the room the whole time isn't making it worse because she is just staring at me the whole time and confused about why I'm not picking her up regardless of how many times I say it. I almost feel like it's a tease that I am right there but she can't have me. Guess I'm back to square one again tomorrow night :'(
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It's so hard isn't it, are you standing or sitting in there? x
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I sat on the yoga ball for a while then on a pillow on the floor. At first I was saying "you're ok, lay down and go to sleep" almost constantly but then stopped and just sat there because I felt my voice was distracting and keeping her from being able to settle. I just don't know how she can go on screaming like that for so long. I know I shouldn't have given in, but how long am I supposed to let her go on like that? She was up then at 3:30 and took til 5 to fall back to sleep but I picked her up then because I needed to go back to sleep. Then she was up at 6 crying again. I had to wake her up at 7:20 otherwise her schedule would be all over the place today. Hoping she can catch up a bit during nap. Although I'm not expecting her to fall asleep early at all tonight either at this rate.
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It often gets worse before it's get better and the older they are the harder it is. I'd try maybe sitting out of her direct site, start with night night time to sleep and then maybe only say shush now night times go to sleep mummy's here periodically.
My first would lay down providing I was there but number 2 wants me out the way.x
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Unfortunately there is nowhere in her room that I could stay and her not be able to see me, unless I sit in the bathroom that is attached to her room, which is what I did when I was doing wiwo.
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I know it's really tempting to let her sleep longer for her nap after a rough night but it can have the opposite effect to what you want/need. She's already having quite a long nap.
Did you move BT later?
hugs. It's very tiring.
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I did not let her sleep longer than normal for nap; she fell asleep at 1:10 and was up at 3, which is when I was going to wake her if she wasn't up. I didn't move her BT later because I knew she would get OT then as she was already rubbing her eyes and getting silly before we read stories. It was just after 7:30 when I took her to her room, so she screamed from around 7:30-10. How long should I be letting her scream like that while I sit in there? It could've easily taken her til midnight to fall asleep last night at the rate she was going.
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While I totally understand that she is really tired. The BT refusal can be because BT is still too early for her. Often LOs who are UT for BT kick up a fuss, call backs, shouting, crying, anger and they can continue for so long that they take themselves past the time they would have fallen to sleep, way beyond.
I would move BT significantly later rather than still doing it at the same time you were when you first posted. During phases of long call backs, SA and temper or shouting I moved my DS's BT by 30 min then another 30 min the next night. It cut out a lot of the call backs. Once teh phase was over and sleep was coming more easily again I brought BT back to when he needed it.
she screamed from around 7:30-10. How long should I be letting her scream like that while I sit in there?
Well, it is a long time. I wouldn't have spent that long with mine unless he was having periods of starting to get drowsy and calm down a bit, either that or the happy messing around stuff when I'd generally 'tell him off' because his cot was on blocks and running downhill was asking for a huge bump to his head. If mine had screamed long like that I would have taken him out of the room and gone for another hours A time. Although there are *very few* times I have brought my DS back downstairs after BT.
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Only an hour of screaming tonight! If I wouldn't have had to be there, she would've fallen asleep by 7:45 on a night like this after only 7 hours of sleep last night. She was so clingy and tired all day today and was already rubbing her eyes at dinner. Her cries started out fairly weak because she was beyond exhausted, so I thought maybe she'd fall asleep quick, but they escalated quickly. She didn't give up on standing until the very end when she finally laid down and stopped crying at 8:45. Now here's hoping that she is able to sleep all night to make up for last night. I'm going to guess that if she sleeps longer tonight, she is not going to go down this quick tomorrow night because she won't be as sleep deprived.
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Well, at least she went down quicker.
LOs really do have tremendous stamina don't they!
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They can hold out for a long time, well done for keeping going x
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Semi-success! She didn't wake up until 5:30 this morning, at which point I went in and tried to lay her back down after holding her for a few minutes but ended up laying on the floor in her room with her and she went back to sleep til 6:45. Hoping tonight is better too.
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I'd say that's a big success Hun, just keep strong she will get it x
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She fell asleep a lot earlier last night...put her down around 7:35 and she was laying down by 8:05 and asleep by 8:20. I'm attributing it to the fact that she only took a 1 hour nap from 1:10-2:10 since we had company over and I think she didn't want to miss anything. She did wake up once during the night at 1:30 and fell right back to sleep after a quick hug, but then was up at 6:00 this morning.
At what point should I start with the wi/wo again? Last night she was sort of just whining when I put her in her crib at first, so I walked out for a minute to see if she would settle, but she was calling for me then so I went back in and just sat down against the wall and that's when she started crying for me to hold her and getting louder. She did have more intervals of quiet for a few seconds before screaming again before she finally settled and laid down since she was so tired.
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I'd give it a couple of days where she settles pretty easily then maybe move to sitting outside her door just using your voice x
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Another short nap yesterday, which made for a cranky afternoon, but I was actually able to leave the room last night. I put her down at 7:35 and sat down on the floor against the wall. She laid down pretty quickly and I thought she was going to fall asleep right away, but she ended up singing to herself and her dolls and then saying "hi mommy" and being an entertainer. Eventually I was so uncomfortable that I had to get up, so I just whispered to her and stood outside her door in the bathroom. She fell asleep on her own at 8:30 and slept all night until 5:30 this morning. At that point I went in and held her for a bit then laid her on the floor with me and she fell back to sleep for a little while. Hoping that tonight I can just leave the room sooner and that maybe will help with the EW?
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The EW is prob just a bit of built up OT hopefully when she's falling to sleep quicker it will resolve a bit x
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So the leaving the room only worked for one night because last night while she was singing to herself I tried again and she wasn't having it. She was then up at 12:30 (thought she was asleep good but then up again at 1:00), 4:30, 5:30 at which point I laid her on the floor with me and she fell back asleep til 6:40. And her nap again was 1 hr 10 mins on the dot, waking up crying for me. I don't know how she is still functioning with as much energy as she has because she has been running around all day outside the past 2 days, and it was super hot out today so you'd think she'd be exhausted. I tried to leave again tonight after she was playing around for a while but she then insisted on "Mommy sitting" and would pop her head up every once in a while to make sure I still was. She fell asleep at 8:10, but I expect her to wake up again tonight since I was still in there when she fell asleep. I probably shouldn't have, but I put her big giraffe in the position where I was sitting in hopes that if she wakes up she will think I'm still there. Hoping she (and I) get a full night sleep soon, preferably before this baby gets here since he is already 4 days late.
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Definitely need to get out of that room asap...Last night she was up at 10:30, 12, 1:30, 3:50, 5, 5:30, 6, then 6:45. :( From 5 on I laid on her floor because I knew she was going to get up every 30 minutes or so since that's what she's been doing in the early hours.
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Oh my God. Dear mommykay, you must be exhausted. Poor you, and poor your little daughter. Indeed you are going through a lot.
My best wishes and I hope that she can rest better soon. Big hug!
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How was last night?x
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I ended up trying to leave the room a bit last night, and it was semi-successful, as she would be ok for a while playing and singing, then would remember that I wasn't there and cry again. I'd talk to her from outside the door for a bit, then go in and tell her that I would sit on the floor for a minute and then I was going to go out the door again. I'm pretty sure I was outside the room when she fell asleep, and she didn't wake up until 4:30 this morning, but then she took til after 5 to fall back to sleep, was crying again at 6:10, and then up for the day at 6:30. Hoping I can continue progressing with the wi/wo again tonight, but her SA is definitely still in full swing. I had to hold her to fall asleep for nap again today, which means she will be up crying after an hour 10 on the dot. DH put her down for nap yesterday because I wasn't home and she fell asleep on her own instantly and slept 1.5 hrs. She still woke up from that crying for me though. Any idea on how long this SA phase normally lasts? It's easily going on 2 months now.
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Sorry to hear things are still rough. Although ti does sound like you've made a little progress.
Birthday developments usually last a month or two for us, each and every birthday.
Thing is your LO has a sibling arriving any day now too so she is bound to have great anxiety/excitement.
It could possibly go easier with naps and nights if you were able to tweak the routine, as was mentioned previously but obviously you have constraints there.
You'll be having this new LO any day!! Wow!!
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The longer we wait for this baby to arrive, the more anxiety I get about her sleep issues. Not sure how I'm going to handle having to sit on her floor for an hour while recovering from delivery or when I'm supposed to be nursing the baby. But I suppose we will make it through, even if it's with lots of screaming!
I tried putting her down 30 mins later tonight, but that caused us to be back to screaming "mommy holda" for quite a while until she finally settled. I was stuck sitting in the room again, as she does not seem to handle the verbal reassurance from outside the room too well. I tried to inch my way further out the door as she was more settled so that my legs and side were still visible but not all of me. She fell asleep at 8:45, so we'll see how long she ends up sleeping tonight. She only napped an hour again today, so she was definitely OT. It's like she has an alarm set for 2:20 and wakes up then regardless of when she fell asleep.