BabyWhispererForums.com
ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: Poptart83 on April 29, 2017, 07:50:59 am
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Hi everyone,
This is my first post so I apologise in advance if this has been asked a million times but I couldn't find it anywhere...
I have a beautiful 9 WO DS who I thought was a very happy little boy - if a little bit whiney at times; though looking back I think I was always ready to make excuses as to why he was crying ("oh he's going through a development leap"; "oh he had a bit of a busy morning" etc.) I always knew he was more easily upset than all the other babies I know (and we know a lot and are part of various baby groups).
Final straw came this week when I tried to take him to a baby Sensory group and he completely broke down and I realised I have a very sensitive little boy who I didn't really understand that well - and that broke my heart into a thousand pieces.
So - I read the Secrets book and felt like I'd had an epiphany. My little boy wasn't a whimpering mess after all! He was just a bit more sensitive than other babies and a lot misunderstood! Since then I've tried to introduce an EASY routine as I can see that my haphazard lifestyle before and millions of coffee mornings and lunches with other mums in busy pubs were really affecting him :(
He's taking to it quite well but I have a couple of questions I could do with some help on...
Our routine is more or less as follows:
5:30am - Eat
6:00am - Activity
7:00am - Sleep
8:30 - Eat
9.00 - Activity at home followed by
10.00am Sleep - where I take him out in the sling for a long walk (I live in beautiful countryside)
12:00pm - Eat
12:30pm Activity
1:30pm Sleep
3:30 - Eat
4.00 - Activity
5.00pm - Sleep
7.00pm - Eat
7.30 - Activity (bath)
8.30pm - BT
He wakes up on the dot at midnight and three am for feed and I have to confess I slipped a quick feed in around 9pm as he is going down.
Ideally I'd like to cut the midnight feed out - professing to cutting out the 3am one!! But I'm happy at take baby steps.
My questions are:
1. My DH and I find it hard to do any activity for longer than 25 minutes. He gets so overwhelmed!! So even with a nappy change we can only max out like 35 minutes before DD has had enough. He starts to properly sob and I get worried we're then trying to put him to sleep too often!
Our activities are very light play, just lying on his mat singing or coping at each other. If he's feeling more secure (he's only just this week let me put him down on his own at all after reading the book!) I leave him on the mat and just sit and read next to him. No tv no music.
How can I gently play for longer to keep him awake but happy?? I know there's a happy boy in there! He's shown him to me many times! He just gets so frazzled so quickly.....
2. Since reading the book DH and I have mastered putting him to sleep in his cot for nap time and bed time (this is major progress he was in our bed then held for every nap) - but how can I start to wean out this midnight feed?
I know exactly where my inclination to feed him all the time came from we had a slow start at bF and he continued to lose weight for 3 weeks which was just awful :( now he's totally thriving but me and my family always seem to panic he's not getting enough food! So I know I'm scared to cut a feed or altogether.
3. Any tips for senstivie Touchy babies in general?
I feel awful I missed this part of his personality and want to make sure everything I do loving forwards is more in tune with his needs rather than my own. Also it would be ace to have a couple of hours to myself everyday rather than dashing round the house trying to grab breakfast whilst he fries upstairs before hurling him into the pram sobbing to walk him to sleep!!
Thanks for listening :)
X
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Hello and welcome to BW forums :)
Congratulations on your new little boy :)
Looks like you've done really well to recognise your baby's personality and identify that at times he was becoming over stimulated by his environment and all the people around him. It's important I think to find a suitable compromise or balance between meeting his needs and your own. Clearly you need to get out and have these sociable times with other mums, it's good for your sanity! At the same time LO is becoming overwhelmed and it is a little too much for him. You don't have to keep yourself at home all day though - you can find a balance which works for you both. Going out at roughly the same time each day can really help with sensitive babies they come to expect it and accept it, even more so when they know that other parts of the day are quieter and calmer. Reducing the time you are out might help, or finding a consistent and workable way of baby nodding off for a nap whilst out so that you can stay out longer but without it disturbing or over stimulating him.
When mine was little I remember planning only those baby groups which fell at roughly the same time of day, we had the morning at home, and first long nap at home, then we went out in the afternoon. Some baby groups I arrived late to fit a little better with my DS's going out time and some we left early again to fit with his time - but I didn't stop going. I needed to get out to see other mums and my DS gradually came to love those groups even if he found them very/too stimulating.
Equally when mine was a little older I found ways to help him with the levels of stimulation, either by skipping part of a group (beginning or end), by giving him some say over what we did and when we left, and by teaching and helping him with ways to find peace even in a busy environment (for us this was to turn our backs to the room and look out the window, I would talk quietly to him about what we could see and reassure him that everything was okay...my DS who is now 6 years old can still do this when he is starting to feel overwhelmed. It is a form of self soothing and calming.
Your DS is still very very young and the amount of time he can stay awake is very short. It looks from your EASY that you are trying to keep him up too long. At this age 1hr 15 to 1hr 20 is about all he can manage and this includes time taken to eat and change nappy etc. A time is all the time that is not S time so if he wakes in the morning at 5.30am and this is when you get up for the day then it goes:
WU 5.30
E 5.30
A 1hr 15
S 6.45 - 8.15/8.45 (1.5 to 2hr sleep)
E 8.30 (or 8.45 if he sleeps 2 hrs)
A 1hr 15
S 9.30
and so on
It leave very very little time for interaction or play but as he gets older he will be able to stay awake a little longer.
For E - at this point I would not be trying to wean out any night feeds. If LO is feeding every 3hrs or longer at night that is totally normal. Here on the forums we run with the most recent research on feeding and feel that Tracy would have updated her books and advice accordingly had she still been with us to do so. For such young babies it is advised to feed on demand or every 3hrs and to expect those night feeds, especially for a BF baby - your LO needs to feed at night to stimulate your milk supply. There are also lots of growth spurts at this young age when LO may need additional feeds over night. I know it's really tempting to drop those night feeds and get some sleep but for now I suggest you continue - every 3hrs which is the two NF (night feeds) you have at the moment.
You can introduce a DF (dream feed) before your own bed time, around 10pm ish which can help get a longer stretch before the NF but it's up to you if you prefer to do this or just wait for the NF when baby wakes.
Do not worry about having fed your baby too often (if you did). First off he probably needed it, secondly we don't go for blame and guilt here, you did what you did because you love your baby and wanted to do the right thing - that's all any one can ask isn't it? From here on you can expect to feed at 3hrly interval through the day and possibly more often through illness on hot days and such. We have a great BF board where you can get support and have your questions answered too.
You will eventually get a couple of hours to yourself. He is still very little and still needs you through most of the day and night but as you settle into this routine you will hopefully start to see a consistent 1.5 or 2hr nap at least once per day and can make the most of this Y time.
Your LO will also appreciate the structured routine and together you will learn how to cope with the stimulation levels, how much is enough, what time of day is best for higher and lower stimulation and how to deal with it when there is too much - it's team work, you will help your LO and he will also help you.
I think I have answered your questions. Do let me know if something is not clear or you have more questions. And perhaps you would like to post another EASY in a few days after you have tried out the shorter A time? Let us know how you get on.
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Thanks Creations,
Your answers make me want to weep with gratitude! I have already realised that baby classes in the morning are probably better (but no more baby Sensory until he's older!) so will do exactly as you say and keep interactive sessions to roughly the same time each day.
Thank you also for your note on BF - the thought of him being hungry literally hurts my insides so good to know my instincts are right :)
Glad you hear your son is well versed in letting you know when to leave places - I am already seeing DS doing that hahaha.
I'm just so relieved I found BW and this forum! Hopefully with his new routine he's going to click on to what's coming next and settle much more easily in every day life.
He's proper trying already I can see :)
Thanks again!
X
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Your answers make me want to weep with gratitude!
No weeping!! Babies are hard work enough without adding extra tears ;)
I'm just so relieved I found BW and this forum!
Yes so am I!! I found this place 6 years ago when my LO was about 4 months old and I have been here ever since. It's a life saver. I hope you find it as homely (and addictive) as I do and stick around :)
Do feel welcome to come back and post an update or questions here and to look around the rest of the site and get to know people :)
There's a birth club here if you like chatting with others who have young babies
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=282921.60
(this link is for the 0-6 month birth club. Link titles usually come up but we've got a little glitch since changing servers recently so it now doesn't say the title on the links we are providing)
or of course many other boards on the forum too.
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Thank you again!
I've already reduced awake time today and he's much more settled! He even had a few hours with his grandparents and didn't freak out!
I'll let you all know how I get on. What a lifesaver this forum is honestly! Lovely to know people have had similar experiences and just get it. DS is our first baby and he's a wonderful little chap. I just need to catch up on what he needs from me
X
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I've already reduced awake time today and he's much more settled! He even had a few hours with his grandparents and didn't freak out!
Ah that's lovely :)
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Morning guys!
So quick update, DS is still a bit hit and miss on EASY - or perhaps I am!
He's doing much better at night and last night slept 7-1! Then only up at 5 - then down again until 8.
It's the day times we're struggling with.....
He's incredibly hard to put down for his naps - no matter how short I keep his A. There are thrashing limbs and his head wildly turning from side to side. He's just down for his morning nap (in his cot not my arms hurrah!) and it's taken me an hour :(
Shhh shhhh pat didn't work - so I had to get his night time swaddle blanket and just let him cry a bit :( then he eventually went to sleep.
In these instances do I just do that - let him cry a tiny bit and keep trying?? I didn't want to pick him up or give up because I could see he was tired. He's so little so I know PU/PD is too much for him now. It's worrying me a bit because I'd like him to get into a bit of a routine for his own sake so he is used to when we go out each day, but it's going to be impossible when he takes an hour to be put down for his morning nap :(
Also his afternoons are hit and miss. DH and I couldn't get him down at all yesterday for about 4 hours and I'm at a loss what to do when he's like that... he was literally screaming by the end and we had to bath and bed him. Probably why he conked out!!
Finally, he yawns loads. Literally as soon as he's woken up. Surely it's not always a sign of tiredness?
Thanks as always,
X
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Hi there
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you (I have a health problem).
Just want to let you know that I will be back later and reply properly. You have not been forgotten.
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The shush/pat method does involve picking him up and soothing with shush/pat in arms until he is totally calm or nodding off, even asleep. If he can nod off in the cot that's great but if he is crying then you need to pick up or use shush/pat in the cot, or lay a firm hand on him and use a key phrase if shush doesn't seem suitable, so he knows you are there.
If he is mantra crying this is a different sound and is part of self soothing, you can still have a hand on him or be by his side if you are not sure.
In any event, to be clear, we wouldn't leave a baby to cry alone for any period of time - I don't think that is what you are doing.
Finally, he yawns loads. Literally as soon as he's woken up. Surely it's not always a sign of tiredness?
Yawning can be for other reasons, including that he is well slept especially if it is directly after a good sleep.
How old is he now? (is he 10 wks??) would you like to post today's or yesterday's EASY times for me to look at?
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Hi Creations,
Sorry to hear you've been unwell. Hope you are in the mend.
DS has been really really unsettled and now not sleeping at all in the day (bar 35 minutes today) so I went to the GP today :( said nothing seems wrong but I know he's not right so seeing how he goes tonight and then perhaps take him for an assessment at the hospital.
He's had three awful nights of waking every hour and I can't help but think this is pretty unhealthy for a ten WO.
So no EASY schedule to post in short!
I'll let you know how we get on and I desperately need to get him to sleep but seemingly this is impossible currently.
X
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Oh dear, it does sound like something is bothering him if he is waking that much in the night and not sleeping at all in the day.
It could be something relatively "simple" like early teething or a virus.
I hope he is feeling better soon - don't worry about accidental parenting, do everything you can and whatever is needed to help him through x
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Hi guys,
We've had a bit of a mixed week but feel he's MUCH happier than this time last week. It was awful! We have got back into our EASY routine now and find ourselves doing the following:
WU: 05:30
E: 5:30-6
S: 6-7:30
E: 7:30-8
A: 8-8:30
S: 8:30-9:30
E: 9:30-10
A/S: 10-12 (long walk in the sling/pram)
E: 12/12:30 (Depending on how deep the sleep is - can sometimes go to 13:00)
A: 13:00-14:00
S: 14:00-15:00/15:30/16:00 in his cot in his room
E: 16:00-16:30
A: 16:30 onwards - then have real trouble getting him back to sleep
He's doing quite well in the day wuth two strong naps but the afternoons are so hard! He just wants to stay awake from his afternoon nap and then become so irritable at 18:00 we sometimes expedite bathtime. He's always in bed before 19:30 though.
He's also cut out the midnight feed himself the last three nights and has one at 01:30 or 02:00 then we push on to the 05:30 feed which is great for me!
Seems MUCH happier with quiet afternoons in his own room so am going to try to keep the mornings for any activities and keep those very light and mainly outdoors - I don't think he likes all the commotion of baby classes!
Any ideas on the afternoon fussiness greatly appreciated - he got himself into a right state yesterday!
Thanks as ever
X
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You might find some different baby classes he likes or even just a short visit to one. Also as he gets bigger he might be able to handle a little more or get to like them a bit more. I know mine had a preference to which baby groups we attended or which part of the groups. He didn't like the group singing at the end of many of the groups (although he does love music and singing at home) so we excused ourselves before it started. I would keep trying even one per week or something so that he can gradually become accustomed to being in a little group, seeing other people and coping with the number of people and noise, just gradually without too many instance of being overwhelmed by it.
I think he is about 10 or 11 wks old now, yes?
His A time might lengthen a bit and this could help to shift those good naps a little later in the day which would in turn reduce that long time from the end of nap 3 running up to BT. It is a time when some LOs just refuse to have an extra nap, often called "the witching hour" although for us it went on much longer than an hour!
Here's the link to guidance A times:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0
He could probably do 1hr 20 now.
Looking at your time you could increase the time he is awake from 7.30am WU for the day to the first nap, 1hr 20 instead of 1hr. If he seems very fussy and ready for his nap you can increase to 1hr 10 for a couple of days and then the other 10 mins to 1hr 20. This should help to reduce that last A time by shifting nap 1 a bit later and also the possibility of nap 1 lengthening to 1.5-2hr.
Again between nap 1 and nap 2 you can increase the A time in the same way, it looks like he might be getting a very short A time there so try to keep him awake at least the hour in preferably a bit more.
These two changes will in turn adjust the start time of nap 3 which might then start at 3pm ish
Here's how your day might look (but not a strict schedule):
WU 7.30
A 1hr 20
S 8.50 - 10.20
A 1hr 20
S 11.40 - 1.40
A 1hr 20 (or longer if he is happy - you currently have 2hrs here)
S 3pm (or 3.40pm if he is very happy to have that long A time) - 4.30/5pm
A
BT 6.30pm
You can see by shifting those naps it is easier to reach a more suitable BT, still a bit early at 6.30pm.
It could be that he is a LO who likes relatively short A times in the morning and quite long A times in the afternoon/evening. over time you will get to know his preference which makes routines a bit easier to work out.
As a side note, watch out for those long A times and his mood - if he is happy with it then fine, if he is getting grumpy or then takes very short disturbed naps you might ned to watch the clock more closely to ensure his A doesn't get so long. Just something to observe.
Hope this helps.
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This is super helpful thank you.
Yes I will try to go to one class - funnily enough he's the same with the singing! Is that a touchy thing? He loves singing and music at home but gets overwhelmed with it in public.
I'll try to shift those naps as you suggest, yes he's 12 weeks on Tuesday! Can't believe how that has flown!!
I am sensing he can probably handle a little more awake time. DH is now on board with EASY and recongises his sleepy cues.
I'll let you know how you get on this week!
X
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I think touchy babies just don't like a lot of noise, sudden changes, strong smells and things like that. My LO never came out as touchy on the baby quiz, he was mainly textbook but having spent a lot of time here and reading parenting books and such I decided he was highly sensitive (there's a quiz for that somewhere), he scored high and yet I didn't have the problems many parents seemed to have with highly sensitive LOs. I suppose it all comes down to being an individual character really and although we can investigate and explore all these different things they don't so much give a clear answer but rather open our minds as to how might be going on, how our LOs might feel, and to be open to learning to get to know them as little people with their own preferences.
Mine still doesn't like organised party games such as at birthday parties with hired entertainers or sports leaders who organise games and races etc, he doesn't like pass the parcel, he went through a phase (younger) when he would throw a huge fit if anyone sang the hokey-cokey. Play group workers and other parents even hinted at a learning disorder to me because he didn't play with the other children at toddler groups - he actually just didn't like those children, and didn't like to play with younger or same age kids or play with others in that environment. He made friends at the beach, park, soft play (usually with slightly older children) so I knew his social skills were fine... all individuals :)
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To me that shows strength of character. I hope my LO has enough self awareness to decide who he wants to hang out with and who he doesn't from such an early age. It took me about 28 years to work that out.
So we've been following your EASY outline below Creations and I've moved morning and afternoon naps to later fairly easily.... I say fairly easily because the 3pm nap fills me with dread each day as he's so hard to settle and put down. Here are my most recent questions:
1. After his 1:30 (ish) feed we play for a bit and often he wants to fall asleep which is great. However I get him into his cot he wakes within 20 minutes screaming for a feed. I've tried giving him more but he won't take it at 1:30 (we introduced a formula feed here as I am trying to wean him off BF in the day). He will take about 6oz but then literally will not settle after this 20 minute cat nap without more milk. Which I give him either from a fresh bottle or from the breast for ease which makes the original bottle completely redundant. Should I reduce the A time here so he goes to bed full? He writhes around like a maniac too making everything that little bit more miserable.
2. He is not a fan of his cot. Never has been and our 'accidental parenting' did not help this as I or my DH just used to cradle him for his naps and pick him right up if he cried. He's only 12 weeks so still early for PUPD but any suggestions on how to settling him IN his cot? As soon as his bum hits the mattress he's awake and crying.... I've tried shush pat and have picked him up when he is actually crying - which is every time. I think he only mantra cries in the night when he wakes up at old feed times. I'm starting to dispair that he will never ever sleep in his own room :(
He literally gets in such a state I have to haul him out and it takes me 20 minutes to calm him down.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
X
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1. After his 1:30 (ish) feed we play for a bit and often he wants to fall asleep which is great. However I get him into his cot he wakes within 20 minutes screaming for a feed. I've tried giving him more but he won't take it at 1:30 (we introduced a formula feed here as I am trying to wean him off BF in the day). He will take about 6oz but then literally will not settle after this 20 minute cat nap without more milk. Which I give him either from a fresh bottle or from the breast for ease which makes the original bottle completely redundant. Should I reduce the A time here so he goes to bed full? He writhes around like a maniac too making everything that little bit more miserable.
Sorry, not really sure what's happening here. You could either post your full day EASY and I'll look at the times, see if anything stands out or you might prefer to post about his feeding on the BF board? I am pretty sure there are people who have mix fed on the BF board too.
2. He is not a fan of his cot. Never has been and our 'accidental parenting' did not help this as I or my DH just used to cradle him for his naps and pick him right up if he cried. He's only 12 weeks so still early for PUPD but any suggestions on how to settling him IN his cot? As soon as his bum hits the mattress he's awake and crying.... I've tried shush pat and have picked him up when he is actually crying - which is every time. I think he only mantra cries in the night when he wakes up at old feed times.
PUPD is really a last resort method so we always recommend shush/pat or adapted anyway, regardless of age.
If your LO is more used to rocking you could put a firm hand on him in the cot and do a rocking motion with your hand.
If you are picking up and putting him upright or kind of up to your shoulder you could instead begin to hold him horizontally so that he becomes accustomed to being soothed by you in that position which means when you put him down there are fewer changes in positioning.
You can also put down from this position and keep very firm hands on him in the cot as though you are still holding him - or even continue to hold but right down by the mattress, not the most comfortable position for you but it can help LO get the right view for the seven miles stare, the nodding, and then not be freaked out when they wake with that view point mid nap or in the night.
You can adapt and find things which work for you to help sooth him on the cot but really it is mostly a case of keep doing shush/pat (or adapted) and he will get it. The more consistent you are the easier he will understand and accept that he neds to nap in his cot.
You can play in his room and pop him in the cot in A time and play peek-a-boo, this can help with becoming more familiar with the environment and also the idea that you can go out of sight and return.
Certainly continue to pick up and sooth in arms if and when needed then back down into the cot to continue to sooth there.
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Thanks Creations for all your help. Unfortunately things are worse than ever. Shush Pat isn't working. Every time I try to put him down to sleep in any capacity he becomes hysterical. Any method of getting him into the cot is fruitless and I've become exhausted from trying. He's now not even sleeping in my arms :(
I have no idea what we'll do apart from muddle along. Sorry for negative post, just a very trying week with him and I jus don't think I can carry on trying and becoming so upset with failure and hysterics. If we get back on board I'll let you know.
X
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Oh I'm very sorry to hear you've had such a difficult week.
Maybe LO has some reflux? Or an illness coming on (like a cold or common virus type thing)?
We are here when you want to post - even if you'd just like some hugs and support xx
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Thanks so much.
I honestly don't know what to think anymore. I've had him checked at the doctors twice and it was very unhelpful to be honest. Just a kind of ambivalent 'that's what babies are like' response.
I knew having a baby was going to be hard work but honestly sometimes it feels actually impossible :( I'll see how we get on and will keep checking back in.
Thanks again for your lovely kindness x
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If he's not porrly or an illness coming then my guess would be that his routine is a bit off, he was happier a little while back and did a couple of good naps, it's possible he needs an A time increase since then so that he is tired enough for the nap. That could possibly stop him from thrashing around and refusing the nap. It is also possible that he is now more accustomed to going into his own bed for the nap and no longer happy to sleep in arms (mine was like this).
They are some possibilities.
Another possibility is silent reflux or something else health related. Have your read the reflux symptoms list?
I've had him checked at the doctors twice and it was very unhelpful to be honest. Just a kind of ambivalent 'that's what babies are like' response.
I'm afraid this is how some docs are, very much "oh you're a first time mum are you? Babies cry you know" kind of thing. Not all docs of course.
With my DS I had to insist on a referral to a paediatrician at the hospital after being told by several health visitors and docs that DS was fine, a happy spitter, totally normal, this is what babies do, oh you are a first time mum...and within just a few mins in the paediatrician's office she diagnosed silent reflux and prescribed medication (my description of what was happening and she heard his silent reflux which no other doc we saw seemed to hear). My DS improved so much after that. he was older than your LO as it had taken so long to get to the point of seeing the paedi.
hugs.
Having a baby is hard work but sometimes it is harder than other times. you really will get through this whatever the cause is and you'll come out the other side. these very young babies are really hard work. It is going to get easier x