BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: KiusMum on May 16, 2017, 14:19:35 pm
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Hello All,
I started sleep training my son from March this year(18 month old then) using the BW techniques. Up untill then he was mostly rocked or patted to sleep either in his cot or in my arms or a combination depending on the situation. However he always went to sleep in his cot. Depending on his NWs and the quality of my day, he would usually then end up in our bed sometime during the night. When I started in March(using the GW technique), initially it seemed a bit tough, however I persisted and he soon adapted. By mid- April, I was actually at the door, i.e. in mere 45 days, I had gone to rocking him in hand till asleep to doing his bed-time routine and laying him in bed, standing at the door till he fell asleep. He would get up and check in between if I was still around , sometimes grumble a bit but would still eventually fall asleep on his own. I got a couple nights at this stage where he slept through or woke up only once/twice and settled quickly.
Its now mid-May and I am back to standing next to his crib singing and rubbing his back till he falls asleep. ??? ::) :-[
I should add that I was sleep-training only at bed-time. At nap-time, he was still being patted in bed till almost asleep and then back rub or stroke. He goes 3 days a week to nursery where he is also patted at nap-time. Also for NWs, he was patted or held whatever got the job done the quickest and eventually around 3 am he landed up in bed with me. My plan was when the NWs reduced a bit, start tackling them one by one and then possibly the nap.
Around mid-April I think we moved him to his own room and tried WI/WO to get out of the room a few times, cos I was feeling I had to move to the next stage. However, it didnt work out, cos he just launched into full scale crying, till I didn't come in the room. I then tried just standing outside the door and even half in and half out. However that dint work either and I would end up being in the room again and calming and stroking him down. It got a bit worse, so I reversed my steps a bit and now as I said I almost back to where I started with him.
To make matters worse, his NWs have increased and it takes me much longer to settle him even if he's sleeping next to me in bed.
I am at my wits end now, with bad sleep for almost a month + my elder son to take care of and I am working part-time.
Could someone please advise me as to what should my steps be?? I think I need a proper plan here to stick to with him esp. to reduce his NWs and atleast have 1 long stretch of sleep ( 4-5 hours??)
Thank you..any suggestions/advice would be very much appreciated.
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Hi Kiusmom,
Could you please post his current routine at home and nursery, and what it was around 18mo?
The 18-20 mo age is tricky to do sleep training in my experience, but not impossible. It does require a lot of patience and diligence for that long term goal. I'm not sure if you advised here to only train at BT and not NWs, but I would definitely recommend training for all night sleep.
Let's take a look at his routine first. I know it's hard, but hopefully we can help you get to a good place and sleep for everyone!
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Hi ginger428,
Thank you so so much for the quick response..
This was his 18 month routine.
Wake up - 7.45 - 8.10
Nap - 12.50/1.00 - 3.10
Bedtime - In bed around- 8.15 pm, Asleep by 8.50/8.55pm
It usually took him atleast 30 mins to fall asleep at bed time, 20 mins if hes calm and suitably tired.
His nap was 2 hours or 2.5 hours and he very rarely woke up in between the nap.
This is current routine
Wake up - 7.30 - 7.45
Nap (at home) - 1.10 - 2.30/2.45 ( very rarely will go till 3.00 pm)
Nap ( at nursery) - 12.10 - 2.10/2.20
Bedtime - In bed around- 8.15 pm, Asleep by 8.50/8.55pm[/color]
He is waking up earlier, napping lesser with almost the the same bed time. I have tried to move the bed time a bit before but not with much success. The earliest I can get him in bed is 7.45 pm. so hopefully he can fall asleep by 8.15/8.20 pm. Also the NWs have increased and its getting really difficult to settle him even with patting and rubbing his back all the time. Another thing I forgot to say, is that he needs water in the night. Earlier it was every once in a while, but now its for every NW. He will wake up and he will look around for it or point to where it is usually kept. I thought it was becoming a habit, so last night I didnt give it and ended up trying to get him back to sleep for an hour 15 mins( 11- 12.15 am). When I finally gave him the water, he fell asleep in 5 mins. :-[. I had to give the water on every NW after that as well ( He woke up 4 times).
I did only BT, because it is too much to handle all the NWs for me, I don't get even a 3 hr stretch of sleep + have to fix bkfast,/school lunch etc in the morning. I figured if I could just get eliminate one NW by fixing BT, I could then work on the others.
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Hugs, I know you are thoroughly exhausted! This was a tough stage for me, too!
Wake up - 7.30 - 7.45
Nap (at home) - 1.10 - 2.30/2.45 ( very rarely will go till 3.00 pm)
Nap ( at nursery) - 12.10 - 2.10/2.20
Bedtime - In bed around- 8.15 pm, Asleep by 8.50/8.55pm[/color]
Basically his night sleep is 10.5 hrs, and daytime is 1.5-2 hrs = 12-12.5 hrs. total sleep. His activity time before nap is shorter than the avg for his age which is 6-7, especially if he is going down at 12:10. It is common at this age, ~20+months, for total sleep to decrease slightly or daytime sleep to decrease as it starts to interfere with night sleep. Which leads me to...
He is waking up earlier, napping lesser with almost the the same bed time. I have tried to move the bed time a bit before but not with much success. The earliest I can get him in bed is 7.45 pm. so hopefully he can fall asleep by 8.15/8.20 pm. Also the NWs have increased and its getting really difficult to settle him even with patting and rubbing his back all the time.
Early wake ups and long NWs at this age indicate too much day sleep, and sometimes too early of a bedtime. An OT/UT cycle starts when they're not tired enough for bed, then sleep late, have night wakes, and/or wake early and get OT.
I would cap his nap at 1.5 hrs max, and also move his nap later to 1:30 and BT (put down at 8:30). I would stick to a 1:30 naptime and 8:30 BT no matter what his wake up time is. And do this for at least 3-4 days. Can you ask nursery to do the same? I normally wouldn't suggest doing both nap capping and moving nap time at the same time, but in your case, I think it's worth a try to help him get some sleep before attempting any sleep training. As a warning, you may notice that in a few weeks, he'll sleep later and later... sometimes past 9. That's a sign to shorten his nap some more. (Which allows you to keep BT the same). This happened with my son and many others here!
Earlier it was every once in a while, but now its for every NW. He will wake up and he will look around for it or point to where it is usually kept. I thought it was becoming a habit, so last night I didnt give it and ended up trying to get him back to sleep for an hour 15 mins( 11- 12.15 am). When I finally gave him the water, he fell asleep in 5 mins. :-[. I had to give the water on every NW after that as well ( He woke up 4 times).
This involves him being awake as his sleep needs are changing, and him testing limits (it's normal and healthy).
I know how hard all this is, trust me! I've been there... but with a lot of hard work now, you will be able to reap the benefits of healthy sleep for your family. I am hoping his NWs will be resolved with the routine change so let's hold off on taking the water away just so we can get you and him sleeping before addressing sleep habits.
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Hi ginger428,
If I put him down at 8.30, he will sleep around 9.15 or maybe later. Isn't that getting too late for him? This was his
day yesterday, I put him down around 8.20 pm and he took approx. 45 mins to fall asleep.
Routine Yesterday
Wake up - 7.25 AM
Nap - 1.02 - 2.45 pm
In bed - 8.19 pm, asleep by 9.05 pm
There was a lot of protesting and screaming last night as he wanted me to rub his back or pat him, but I just sat in the chair
repeating his night time phrase and singing his songs. He was screaming so much he started coughing, so I had to give him water a few times.I rubbed his back towards the end and patted the railing which helped him to calm down a bit.
Night Wakings
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NW 1 - 10.50pm - 11.20 pm ( Was crying, had to be picked up, calm down, give water , then pat in bed)
NW 2 - 11.39 pm - 11.52 pm ( Seemed a bit hot, so gave meds , water, then pat in bed)
NW3 - 1.00 am ( Just rubbed his back, settled in few mins)
NW4 - 2.00 am ( Got him up, gave water, got him in my bed and patted a bit)
NW5 - 5.30 am- 6.45 am( I was so tired by then, he was basically rolling all over for 30 mins, till I got up and started patting him. Fell asleep around 6.45 am. Eyes were closed most of the time while I was patting)
Wake up - 8.00 AM.
I tried to continue back-rubs or key phrases at NWs too, but his crying quickly escalates and turns really bad
so I ultimately patted him. How should I address NWs??
I will put him down for his nap at 1.30 pm as you suggested and post how it goes. He's having a slight temperature so seems a bit cranky.
I am very tempted today to put him down for bedtime even later than 8.30, if it gives us both atleast one long stretch of sleep. :(
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Also wanted to add that he is a premie baby , so he is 20 months corrected age and 21.5 months actual age. I am always confused as to what should I go with regarding his routine.
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Hi ginger428,
My lil man is sick :(.. however, here's his nap and bedtimes for today.
Nap - Today was much better, I put him down at 1.15 pm and he fell asleep by 1.30 pm with a lil back rub and a few pats. He was really tired.
Duration - 1.30 - 2.30 pm ( After 1 hour, I heard him babbling for a few mins, but not crying so I didnt go in until 2.45, when I realised he was awake and just talking to the toys. I tried to resettle cos I thought it was too short a nap, but he didn't want it)
We had a long day and had gone out for groceries and shopping, so he was very tired by the time we got home and dinner was done.
His fever had also spiked up and he was coughing and sneezing , and didn't eat much( which is very unlike him). He was so exhausted, he fell asleep while having his night time milk and that was 8.25 pm. :).
So yes his nap was at 1.30 pm( 1 hour) and bed time was 8.25 pm. I heard him talking a few times in his sleep, but he has not woken up yet (its 11 pm now), I will post tomorrow how the night was :)
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He woke up the second I hit post :(. Anywas he had a high temperature last night, so he was very very restless and drifting in and out of sleep. I gave him his meds twice in the middle of the night and his wakeup time was 7.45 I think, cos he simply walked out of the room to his dad as the door was open while I was still asleep.
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Night Wakings
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NW 1 - 10.50pm - 11.20 pm ( Was crying, had to be picked up, calm down, give water , then pat in bed)
NW 2 - 11.39 pm - 11.52 pm ( Seemed a bit hot, so gave meds , water, then pat in bed)
NW3 - 1.00 am ( Just rubbed his back, settled in few mins)
NW4 - 2.00 am ( Got him up, gave water, got him in my bed and patted a bit)
NW5 - 5.30 am- 6.45 am( I was so tired by then, he was basically rolling all over for 30 mins, till I got up and started patting him. Fell asleep around 6.45 am. Eyes were closed most of the time while I was patting)
My lil man is sick .. however, here's his nap and bedtimes for today.
I was going to say based on all the night wakings above I'd say if he's not sick already he's about to show signs he is... IME those frequent wakings are often congested ear related where they find it hard to sleep & often medication gets rid of the pain but not the pressure & so they wake lots feeling uncomfortable.
It's very hard to work on sleep when they are sick, so at least short term you just have to roll with it.
Also wanted to add that he is a premie baby , so he is 20 months corrected age and 21.5 months actual age. I am always confused as to what should I go with regarding his routine.
One of the Mum's I know who had 3 Premie babies told me that her specialist said that by 12months old because there is tends to be such variation in children walking talking etc that really the adjusted is no longer relevant. Esp as things like "dental age" can vary so much... eg her 7 week premie baby got his first tooth at 7months (not adjusted) & my term baby got his at 8months & things like teeth, walking & talking do have an impact on sleep & there is a huge variation in the age they do that (the differences in my 2 who were both term, is big... like one crawling at 5months & the other at 10.5months!!)
Based on his age the molars (& canines if he doesn't already have) would probably be a factor too & those last teeth were hell in this household for both my children, lots of runny noses & grumpy children & poor sleep.
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Kiusmom- so sorry to hear he's ill. Yes what Katet said regarding working on sleep- we often give DS whatever he needs such as early naps or long ones, etc...
Molars were definitely a factor for us too at this age.
Keep us updated!
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Yes I do agree with you katet and gingernut..have to wait till he feels better again..
Been to the doc today, he's got a massive ear infection so on antibiotics now. Poor baby hes also coughing a lot..
Because I was at the doc's today, he had his afternoon nap in the car (1.10 -1.50 pm ish). I tried to resettle him after we got home, but even though I was APOP, he didn't go back to sleep.
On the plus side, I put him in bed around 8.15 and sneaked out of the room. He just fell asleep by himself. ( must have been completely exhausted..) He usually wakes 1 hr 50 mins or 2 hrs after he falls asleep at bed-time, but tonight he cried a bit in his sleep a lil at that mark , but before I could even reach the room, he had fallen back asleep again. :o
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Aww so sorry to hear about the ear infection- KAtet was right. Thankfully we haven't had any ear infections (by some miracle) but definitely fluid and teething cause ear pressure aches (i assume) which I heard makes it hard for them to sleep comfortably at all. And to think he might be experiencing both. Sending wishes for a quick recovery!
Did he get drops along with antibiotics? I wonder if the drops soothed him enough so he could rest comfortably.
Also, not sure if this is the case for you, but don't feel you have to stick to 8:30 BT during illness especially if his nap was shorter than usual and he's fatigued. The general rule is to have BT within 30 mins so if he's visibly tired, shoot for 8:00 or even 7:45 asleep.
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No he's not got any drops, wonder if that would have helped him?? Should have probably asked the doctor. :( The antibiotics that hes having has made him go off food, so basically he's not eating anything like just a few spoons here n there. He will take a few bites of crackers, sultanas, dried apricots and drink milk/water. Any ideas on what to give him to eat which might be gentler on his tummy?? Its making me go crazy that he wont eat.
No I didn't aim for 8.30, I was actually aiming for 7.30/7.45, but I had such a battle at dinner time, tried to offer him different things with the hope he might eat something atleast..after which I finally gave up , gave him his bedtime milk and put him to bed. :(
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Oh I know it's difficult when they don't eat, but it's really typical when they're not well. My DS can go as long as 3 days without a solid meal, just snacks like you listed. As long as he's drinking, it should be fine. If it goes longer than 3 days, talk to the ped again. Maybe a milk and fruit smoothie would entice him? DS likes yogurt and smoothies.
Ah, I see. Perfect. Personally, I love 7:30 BT!
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Hi ginger428,
So after about 2 weeks of being sick, hes up and bouncy and his usual self(almost ::) ) now. So I started his sleep training (GW) yesterday. I had accomplished being at the door 2 months back, but that has completely stopped working. I had to be beside his cot most of the time and rub his back or put my hand on his back till he was almost asleep. He got up every hour after he slept and I got him in my bed around 1.00 am. :(
Tonight, I am more resolved and have put a mattress on the floor in his room, so I can sleep there and don't need to get him to my bed. I did the usual bedtime routine and put him in bed at 8.30 pm and walked out of the room. He babbled for a while and then started whimpering. I went in when it was an actual cry and not just complaining. I didn't leave after that and tried verbal assurance, but he was having none of that. I had to rub his back or put my hand on his back to calm him till he was almost alseep. He was asleep by 9.20 pm. There was quite some anger and complaining and crying involved, but I tried to avoid him going to the hysterical stage.
So asleep by 9.20 and I have had 2 NWs already,
10.20 - had a drink, then shussh and back rub ( took 10 mins)
11.06 - only back rub ( took 3 mins)
I think I have a bad night in store, but I will report tomorrow how it goes. His nap in nursery today was quite long ( 12.30 - 3). However tomorrow he's at home, so I can control the nap time and length. I have few qs on how should I continue with the process..
He will wake up between 6.45 - 7.30am. Should I still stick to the 1.30 pm nap you suggested earlier?
At nap time, he tends to play around a bit in the cot before he falls asleep, so is it ok for me to put him in his cot and leave the room and only enter when he seems upset??
Should I take it slow and start the process right from the beginning , i.e. back rub, then standing near the cot..and then moving farther and farther away? or should I just stand away and use verbal assurance even though he seems hysterical.
Thank you so much..fingers crossed for a decent night.
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Hi there,
So as expected, the night was pretty terrible. But the good thing that came out of it was..He spent all night in his COT!!! yayyy!!
as I was on the floor on a mattress pretty much awake most of the night... :(
So here are the NWs..
10.20 pm- had a drink, then shussh and back rub ( took 10 mins)
11.06 pm - only back rub ( took 3 mins)
12.30 - 1.35 am ( back rub, drink and finally pat in bed) This is usually the one where I give in and get him in my bed. He seemed like he was dozing off
but kept waking up after just 5-7 mins off me leaving him. So had to keep going to pat him.
2.30 am - Pat in bed- 4-5 mins.
4.20 am - Patting i think 15 mins
6.25 am - Patting and singing till about 7 ( he dozed off in between but woke up again in 10 mins)
7.00 am - 7.15 am - Snuggle in bed with me , he was awake
7.15 - up for the day.
So had about 6 NWs, most of them were ok to manage , except the one at 12.30 and 6.30. I think there is definitely a routine problem + SA.
With his wake up of 7.15 am, what time should I put him down for the nap and how long should the nap be??. Aiming to just do back rub for the nap as well. His bedtime has usually been around 8.15-8.30 pm, but with all the crying and all he falls asleep after 9.
Could you please advise on nap times and bed times?? Thanku sooo v muchh
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Hi! Hugs Kiusmom, I know how sleep deprived you must be.
Here is a link to describe which method suits your child better.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
Yay for cot sleeping!!! Now for progress... =)
As for naps and bedtime... since he has such broken sleep, he will be more tired than usual. Just keep as close to 1:30 as possible, awake by 2:30/3:00, but by all means put him down at 1:00 if you see him yawning, rubbing eyes, acting silly/cranky, etc...
Bedtime- aim for 5.5 hrs after wake up from nap. I think down at 8:00 no matter what may help you, but again, you'll know how his day is going and he may need to go to bed 15-30 mins earlier. Once you start making more progress with his sleep training, then I would stick to the times to help him regulate.
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Hi ginger428,
Todays nap was from 1.40 - 3.10pm ( I know it was quite late, but he took some time to fall asleep, although didnt cry much).
At bedtime, he was in bed at 8.00 and fell asleep by 8.40 pm, so good that it was way before his usual 9 pm sleeping time.
I decided to trace steps back to keep him calm and help him fall asleep earlier, so stayed by the cot and did back rub and gentle patting.
He actually was pretty good, stood up quite a few times in between and then towards the end , I was patting his cuddly teddy bear instead of
him and he fell asleep. However the NWS have already started...
9.45 pm ( very quick cuddle and a drink, fell asleep immediately)
10.15 pm - 10.35 pm ( I had to walk a bit with him, back rub, drink and then pat in cot, he was not awake but couldnt fall asleep, if I just tried to pat the bed or put my hand on his back)..
I am already very very tired from last night and praying that it does not go as bad today..esp. cos I have to be up by 7 am...
All I hoping is for a 3 hour stretch ..NWs every hour are just terrible..
Do you think hes still OT at bedtime?? Also I wanted advice on a very light night lamp in the room...so that he can see me moving to the door eventually, what do you think? Its pitch black right now and I have to open a few shutters to let him see that I am sitting close to the cot.
Thanku so much for all your advise..
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Ok had another terrible night...I dont know why hes up so frequently..is it purely because of never been able to sleep w/o props??
Hes done 3 , 5 hour stretches when he was a baby (8-10 months old..) I m so stumped and frustrated and tired..and its just day 2..
NWS last night.
9.45 pm ( very quick cuddle and a drink, fell asleep immediately)
10.15 pm - 10.35 pm ( I had to walk a bit with him, back rub, drink and then pat in cot, he was not awake but couldnt fall asleep, if I just tried to pat the bed or put my hand on his back)..
12.25 - 1.15 am (drink, pat, cuddle, etc)
The thing with this NW is he's groggy and very sleepy but keeps jolting up from his sleep about 5 - 10 mins after I have stopped patting him. Then
I start over again..this goes on for about 3- 4 times, until he finally falls asleep around 1.15/1.30am
2.25 am - I took him to bed..I had 0 energy to do anything.. :( :'(
5.00 am - got up to pee..so put him back in his cot.
7.00 am - He was up for the day.
Hes fallen asleep for his nap at 1.05 pm today and I will do a 2 hour nap and still aim for an earlier bedtime, to rule out any OT.
What do u think?? So nap from 1 - 3.00 pm and BT at around 7.45 pm. He should fall asleep by 8.30 pm.
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Honestly to be waking that often & being upset I'd be visiting a Dr to rule out fluid on the ear... although from my experience if they have fluid on the ear without it being an infection a GP will say all is well & for us it took seeing an ENT to actually discover that all the waking were from sore ears from the fluid, so not sure if you can easily rule out fluid.
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Hi Katet,
thanku so much for replying...He had an ear infection and temperature which lasted almost 2 weeks, esp. with change of antibiotics and what not..but I got him checked on Tuesday evening and the doctor said "His ears are pink and shiny now..
. She said I should give him the meds for one more day and then stop. So I stopped from Thursday. I started his sleep training Wed night onwards from BT. I will kep your advise abt the ENT on board though...if things dont improve. During the past 2 weeks, when he was sick hes actually slept much better..cos he was sleeping with me I guess..
So today his nap was from 1.05 - 2.45 pm. And I am trying to get him to fall asleep by 8.30 pm. Hoping it goes well.. Fingers crossed.
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so 3rd night and here's hows it going..
WU - 7am
Nap - 1.05-2.45pm
BT- In bed at 8.10 pm, asleep by 8.42 pm.
NW1- 9.30- 10.00 pm (This was on and off, seemed like he was asleep..but would wake up 5 mins later...)
NW2 - 10.30- 10.35pm( Just saw me, i told him to lie down, put my hand on his back and he was asleep again).
I know the next one will be at 12.30 or 12.35ishh..and pretty much the rest would follow...
I am totally confused..Should I be capping the nap or extending the nap ? Should I try earlier or later bed-time?
Still feel like theres a problem with his EASY.
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If his ears are cleared, I would continue with your goal of reducing the amount of support when he wakes in the MOTN. Like we mentioned before, it really could be a number of things... if you notice there are a few other moms with ~20mo with a lot of disrupted sleep... due to development, teething, etc...
I wouldn't change the routine at the moment... if he's falling asleep for nap okay around 1:00 and is only taking 30 min to fall asleep for BT, he should be ok with this. We want to give it some time.
What makes you think there's a problem with his EASY? Is he fighting sleep? How does he wake from his nap?
Remind me how long this has been going on (before and after illness)?
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What makes you think there's a problem with his EASY? Is he fighting sleep? How does he wake from his nap?
No he's not fighting sleep. If the nap is 2 hrs + hes v happy, if its atleast 1.5 hours he's a bit grumpy (sometimes whining) but allright after he has his milk. anything less than that , it takes him longer to get to normal. I think problem with EASY because he wakes up so many times at night. :(
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At bedtime, I am patting the mattress or the rail/chair till he drifts off. He prefers me patting the mattress next to him, but I have to move away from the cot, so trying to pat the rail or the chair. He's getting better at settling like this. In a few days I think I can move the chair.
We are going on holiday from Friday to Tuesday, so that will throw things off a bit, but I am still persevering as much as I can with his bedtime routine and his settling techniques.
In the middle of the night, I settle him with a drink, cuddle , patting mattress etc with as little support as he will allow till about 1 am.
He wakes up atleast 3 times till then. After 1 am, I take him to bed, I know this is not going to help, but I need some rest atleast at night to work the next day. Once hes' in the bed next to me, he sometimes sleeps through or if he wakes up, he will just roll around and feel me I guess and go back to sleep with a bit of patting. I guess hes NWs are related to this.
I was losing patience and getting more and more frustrated, but I have made peace that its going to take a while, esp. cos I am not consistent at night.
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Kiusmom, I know it's so difficult to function properly with sleep deprivation, so I understand where you're coming from. I have occasionally brought my son to bed as well and honestly, I love it so much when my son sleeps next to me. Unfortunately, I tried co-sleeping and I can't sleep well when he's with us.
If truly his ears are clear, and he's able to sleep most of the night while next to you, the night wakes are probably due to the sleep prop. He may also be going through a bout of SA (which is strong right before 18mo and can be pronounced again around 24 mo). Perhaps you can take a break and get rest for you and your son and enjoy this time to be with him? I say this because all your efforts at the beginning of the night are not making much lead way if you take him back to bed with you most nights. Even with gentle sleep training, consistency is key. There's less of a chance you'll want to be up all night helping him on holiday, so perhaps wait until there are 3-4 days you are home (no work) and you can see if you'd like to focus on his independent sleep.
It's all completely up to you. Xo
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n the middle of the night, I settle him with a drink, cuddle , patting mattress etc with as little support as he will allow till about 1 am.
He wakes up atleast 3 times till then. After 1 am, I take him to bed, I know this is not going to help, but I need some rest atleast at night to work the next day. Once hes' in the bed next to me, he sometimes sleeps through or if he wakes up, he will just roll around and feel me I guess and go back to sleep with a bit of patting. I guess hes NWs are related to this.
Sounds like SA could be a factor & with feeling sick etc he's struggling. I found that rather than bringing DS1 into our bed, where I didn't sleep well even if he did, that we both slept A LOT better if I slept on a mattress on his floor.
I was talking to my Mum the other week & she was telling me out her friend's 18mo Great Grandchild & because at 77yo Mum is remembering the past better than ever before she was telling me about when I was around 3yo4mo & there was a big storm (thunder & lightning) & I woke up scared & went to their room (to the right of my room) & they weren't there as it was only 8pm & I sat in the hallway crying until they heard me (they were outside on the patio watching the storm. Apparently I (who'd been a perfect sleeper ) stopped being a good sleeper & it was horrid for my parents because my baby sister was 1mo at the time. In the end if I woke my parents I got to sleep on the floor of their bedroom, which I found really amusing because I remember my Mum telling me I was making a rod for my back when I slept on the floor of DS1's room. It also shocks me that my parents did that, but Mum said I'd been so scared I'd lost my parents that they felt it was the right thing to do.
I do think we can as parents get the routine "right" but the emotional factors can still be there & sometimes the routines can't help them.