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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Tabathagucci on June 13, 2017, 20:20:51 pm

Title: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on June 13, 2017, 20:20:51 pm
Hello,
LO just turned 16 months.  We had a great routine around 11-12 months, long nap at 11 am and short nap in the afternoon.  It became increasingly difficult to get a second nap and many days I'd have to nurse her to sleep.  I also have a 5 yo so this wasn't practical.  When the spring time change came, her nap automatically shifted to 12 and I kept it that way and dropped the second nap, putting her to bed at 7.  Bed time slowly shifted back to 6/6:30 because she kept falling asleep nursing, but she always went down easy.  Because of my son's schedule, I kept her naptime around 12/12:15.  Our early mornings got messy, but I just nursed her back to sleep and it worked.  Recently she's been harder and harder to get down for bed, but her nap times shifted to 11:45/12.  She'd either fall asleep on our pre-nap walk (not every day but quite a few) and I'd put her down asleep or she'd fall asleep in the car, sometimes as early as 11:15/11:30.  Now she's acting tired around 11:30 but when I put her down at her normal time (12), twice this week she refused and didn't go down till 1 pm.  Yesterday she fell asleep in the car at 11:30.
I've been wondering if I need to push her nap later to help the early mornings and bed time struggles  but she seems so tired around 11:30/11:45!  Could she just need to go down earlier or should I but the bullet and push her nap later?  My son is out of school so I can do that now!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on June 14, 2017, 00:21:31 am
My DD is a tad older but we have had nap at 1pm for a while now.  If we happen to be in the car at 11:30ish chances are she'd fall asleep so I honestly just try to avoid car rides around that time unless they are short.  I think it's just that they are starting to approach nap time so the movement lulls them to sleep, if you were in another scenario (a play group for instance) chances are the tired signs wouldn't show at that time.  I also start lunch around 11:45 if she's showing tired signs because it kind of picks her up a bit to get through to 1.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on June 16, 2017, 12:08:52 pm
Thank you!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on June 29, 2017, 02:13:08 am
So I pushed her nap to 12:15, sometimes it's 12:30.  Our mornings are still messy but she usually goes back down for an hour or two after I nurse her so at least that.  She goes down super easy for her one nap.  But bed time is still a struggle.  I think I am just mis-timing it.  How do I tell if I'm putting her down too early or too late?  She usually wakes from her nap around 1:30/2 and I try putting her down around 6:30/7 and we struggle for 30-60 mins to get her to sleep.  I have to go in usually 3-4 times, sometimes more and pick her up and sing her a couple short songs and put her back down.  It's not awful but for nap we literally just walk in, put her down, close the blinds and pat her on the bum and walk out.  We do do a pre-nap walk for nap wind down, but I've tried this for bed time and it hasn't helped.  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on June 29, 2017, 14:45:56 pm
How long is her nap usually?  I'm thinking she might be OT if her nap is only an hour or so.  We have nap at 1pm but it's a solid 2.5hrs, sometimes more, so she's usually not waking until 3:30ish.  I'm wondering if you actually try to push nap a little later if it would get longer.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on June 30, 2017, 02:02:14 am
She sleeps anywhere from 1h15m to 2h15m but it's usually about 1.5 hours.  Today she slept from 12:25-2 pm.  Put her to bed at 6:30 and she was asleep by 6:52.  Had to go in one time, which is better!  Should I keep bedtime at 6:30 then or shift it earlier?  I've been putting her down at 12:20 for a couple days so will try to get it to 12:30 and see how things go!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on June 30, 2017, 13:04:56 pm
She slept a full 11h10m last night!  Woohoo!  Woke at 6 am.  So that's great but I am hesitant to push put down 10 mins to 12:30 when she woke at 6.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on June 30, 2017, 13:18:16 pm
Should I keep bedtime at 6:30 then or shift it earlier?
6:30 is probably okay.  Logistically for us a BT before that is just not possible because of work schedules etc. and I always worry about crazy EWs lol!

She slept a full 11h10m last night!  Woohoo!  Woke at 6 am.  So that's great but I am hesitant to push put down 10 mins to 12:30 when she woke at 6.  Thoughts?
Maybe try at 12/12:15pm nap?  That's a good solid 6hrs of A time so she should be plenty tired by then and hopefully gives you a good long sleep.  I kind of float the nap, most days it's a 1 but if she's up earlier than normal in the morning I do pull it back as needed.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on June 30, 2017, 20:58:09 pm
Thank you!  She slept from 12:20-1:55, not too and but not 2 hours.  will keep bed time at 6:30 and see how it goes. If she by some miracle sleeps till 6 am again do you think I should I push nap 5 mins or so?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on July 01, 2017, 12:59:58 pm
Well, bed time 6:30, took till 7:35 to get her down (we had to go in 5 times) so maybe I should have put her down at 6:15 so she had time to wind down in the crib.  She woke at 5:55.  Sigh...
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on July 10, 2017, 14:28:07 pm
 I have a few questions relating to EW and OT.  We've had issues in the past with early naps causing NW and EW so I've always tried pushing nap as late as possible until I couldn't push it further due to my older son's school pick up time.  Since then (or maybe just always), we've had issues with EW and sometimes NW. I always just nursed her back to sleep as it was usually just once a night/early am but lately she either takes forever (1+ hours) to go back down (if she wakes around 3/4 am) and if she wakes between 5/6 she won't go back down at all.  We've had teething and vacation so things are really off now. She refused a nap in the car yesterday and fell asleep at 7:45 pm after a 14 hour day, woke at 2:20 am, finally nursed back to sleep at 3 am, woke again at 5:45 am (I think, she may have been awake earlier!), so we're basically in disaster mode. 
1) she was seriously OT yesterday but refused to sleep all day on a 7 hour car ride and fell asleep waaay after her normal bed time (still in the car).  How is this possible?  Is this normal?  She would not sleep even 30 mins for a whole car ride, despite quiet from all in the car, white noise, soothing songs, rubbing forehead etc.  How can she not finally fall asleep at some point for her nap??? (Excuse the frustration here it was a looong car ride) 😊
2) In these cases (way OT from vacation, etc) do I put her down waaaay early (11:30 or so) or just a few mins early (12). 
3) We previously had pushed nap to 12:15/12:20 but have been getting so many EW that it slipped back to 12 and we still have EW so I feel like I'm stuck at this time.  I get the feeling that the early nap is perpetuating the EW but don't know how to get out of that cycle if she keeps EW and can't take a later nap.  Before I'd nurse her back to sleep in the am and then be able to put her down for a later nap but now she won't even nurse back to sleep.

Ok I think that's it!  😊 Thank you! 
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on July 11, 2017, 12:47:24 pm
1) she was seriously OT yesterday but refused to sleep all day on a 7 hour car ride and fell asleep waaay after her normal bed time (still in the car).  How is this possible?  Is this normal?  She would not sleep even 30 mins for a whole car ride, despite quiet from all in the car, white noise, soothing songs, rubbing forehead etc.  How can she not finally fall asleep at some point for her nap??? (Excuse the frustration here it was a looong car ride) 😊
Ugh, both my kids have pulled this maneuver, not fun! Honestly I just chalk it up to one of those severe cases of OT,  unfortunately there isn't much you can do at that point except an EBT and pray they catch up. 

I personally try to stick with the same nap time, but it might just be some trial and error, you may need to try an early nap just to see if she'll catch up, but I do agree that the earlier nap is likely perpetuating the EW.  I think in my case I would probably try to stick with whatever would be a "normal" nap time (12:30?) and just let her sleep longer or do an EBT if necessary.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on July 12, 2017, 01:39:00 am
Thank you!  I've been telling myself to stick to the later nap time even with EW but guess I needed someone else to tell me! I put her down at 12:13, she took a while to fall asleep (12:35) and slept 45 mins.  She woke early (before 6) this morning and I tried nursing her back to sleep.  She did fall asleep for a bit but was hard to tell how long so not sure if her short nap was OT, UT or due to teeth!  Will stick to 12:15 or so for the next couple days and then see if I can push to 12
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on July 18, 2017, 13:04:55 pm
Ok I need help!  For a few days now, she's been sleeping ~ 10 hrs a night or less due to hour long night wakings and EW. I've been putting her to bed too late for various reasons so I chalked it up to that.  Last night I put her down at 6:20, took her till 7 to fall asleep.  She was awake for an hour (maybe more) at 2:30 am and then wide awake at 5:45.  I haven't been able to nurse her back to sleep, she wants to get up and go.  Because of the short nights and EW, I haven't pushed the nap as far as I wanted to, I just did 12:05 instead of 12:15.  One day she slept 1h40m, the next she was crazy OT and it took me over 1.5 to get her down (I finally had to nurse her to sleep) and she slept 30 mins.  Since that day I've backed up to putting her down at 11:50/11:55 and been getting 1h40 th
first day, then 1h20m since.

How do I get out of this mess?  Thank you!

ps she is teething but it's never messed her up this bad before.  Also thinking maybe developmental?  She's been learning how to walk for a few weeks now, but showing more interest the past couple days.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on July 19, 2017, 14:00:54 pm
Could be developmental, but I think for now the best think to do is just to set a nap time.  A 1.20hr nap tends to indicate UT so I would pick a time (12:15?) and stick to it for at least a week.  Eventually her body clock will adjust if it is consistent.  As long as the nap is decent then I would stick to a BT between 6:30/7pm.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on July 20, 2017, 14:28:11 pm
Ok thank you!  That gave me courage! We did 12:15 yesterday and she slept 1.5 hours.  So better.  She has a fever now but once she's well again how long do I wait to push to 12:30, assuming I'm still getting EW and short nights?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on July 20, 2017, 15:18:18 pm
I would hold at 12:15 for a good few days, let her body adjust to that timing.  Things won't change over night so after a week or so if you don't see adjustment to the EW then I'd push A times again.  It's a bit of a chicken and the egg situation ya know, the EW won't disappear until you move the nap, but it's hard to make the nap later with the EW.  Definitely just hold at 12:15 for a bit and we'll go from there!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on July 22, 2017, 02:04:14 am
Ok will do!  She's taken short naps the last couple days (1 hr yesterday and 50 mins today) but she's been sick so I'll chalk it up to that. She's still being a nightmare to get to bed.  Only nurses for a couple minutes, then we read and turn out the lights and she immediately asks to nurse again.  I usually say no but sometimes (esp when she sick) I give in and then she barely drinks anything so I turn the lights out again and she asks to nurse again.  So I say no and start to sing her the songs we sing before putting her in the crib and she's super feisty. Kicking her legs, wiggling in my arms, etc.  so I put her down.  Then she wants to be picked up again, or if she settles, we often have to go back in within a few minutes.  This literally goes on for an hour before she finally settles down. I'm hoping this will get better as the nap shifts later, but any suggestions in the meantime?  I have a 5 year old too and it's just a bummer to have to spend an hour getting her to sleep every night and missing out on time with him.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on July 22, 2017, 02:13:47 am
ps she's now 17 months
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on July 24, 2017, 13:50:00 pm
I don't have much nursing experience to be honest, but I can tell you that at 19 months my DD still takes a bottle before bed, so I wouldn't consider it to be uncommon...it works for us and I don't mess with anything that's working!  It's probably a comfort thing - if she's using you as a soother I can completely get not wanting to allow her to nurse, but if she's actually taking a feed then I probably wouldn't change it.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 05, 2017, 16:17:39 pm
Thanks for the reply!  I've gotten to nap back to 12:15, but her sleep is just awful so still haven't pushed past that.  Guess I should bite the bullet and do it even if I get OT naps for a bit.
Wondering if I should be worried...On average she gets about 11.5-12 hours of total sleep.  According to all the sleep experts she should be getting 13 hours. She's usually a pretty happy kid and doesn't seem overly tired.  Should I worry about this (see her doctor or hire a sleep coach) or not stress?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on August 06, 2017, 12:40:59 pm
12:15 isn't an abnormal time for a nap on 1 nap - what time is WU usually/her general routine right now?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 06, 2017, 14:17:08 pm
She is all over the place.
Last night I put her to bed earlier at 6:05 because she was yawning all afternoon (she slept just under 9 total hours the night before).  She kept crying when I put her down so I nursed her in the dark and she fell asleep around 6:30.  Woke up at 4:30 am, I nursed her and she fell back to sleep by 5:30, awake at 6:30.  I don't normally nurse her to sleep but figured she was so OT I wanted her to get some rest finally!
On average this is probably our schedule but it varies a lot from this:
Wake 6:15
Nap 12:15-1:35/45
In bed at 6:20
Asleep by 7/7:30
Wakes anywhere from 2-4 am for 1-2 hours.

I've tried keeping bed time between 6:30 and 7 but she usually falls asleep later and wakes earlier if I do this, so I backed it up earlier.  She still takes forever to fall asleep, but falls asleep earlier and sleeps more total hours if I do earlier BT.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 07, 2017, 13:32:46 pm
I seriously want to cry I'm so tired.  She napped 1h25m yesterday.  Tried to put down early last night, ended up being 6:35 because she wouldn't go in her crib earlier.  Asleep at 7:10, woke at 4:10 am I waited to see if she'd fall back to sleep, nursed at 4:40, asleep at 5:10 am, woke at 6:10 am and is now chatting happily on her crib.  She used to nurse back to sleep but lately won't do that.

Is it possible she just doesn't need any more than 11.5 total hours of sleep?  Should I be putting her to bed later???  Like 7/7:30?  Sorry for whining but I haven't had a full nights sleep for as long as I can remember.  My son was sleep trained and STTN at 8 months and has been a great sleep since. This is driving me batty!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 12, 2017, 01:45:36 am
Wondering if we are now in the 18 month sleep regression?   She just turned 18 mos today.  She used to fall asleep semi-fast here and there but lately it takes over an hour every night.  We usually have to go in several times.  I am not nursing her to sleep.  I've tried changing our routine, brushing her teeth earlier so she's not so fired up (she doesn't like it).  Reading more books, reading no books, taking her for a walk like we do before nap.  Nothing works. She falls asleep perfectly fine for nap. This is only bed time.... could really use some advice !
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 14, 2017, 07:34:35 am
Hi there.  I haven't read your full thread but saw you didn't have any replies for a few days so thought I'd stop by with some support.
How are things now? Still bad?

Just looking at the last few posts I see you were moving the nap a little later.  I would try shifting it another 15 mins if it was me.  Set at 12.30 for a week and see how the nap lengthens out.  The nap starting and ending later (and being longer) should help with the BT and hopefully help with the long NW too.
Often with teh 18 month regression we suggest to keep teh routine as it was when it was last steady before the regression hit - but often I have also seen that once the regression is past the nap needs to move a bit later anyway which is why I suggest it earlier rather than waiting.
Hope that helps - the 18 month regression will pass, it really will, but it feels like for ever when you are in the middle of it.  You were lucky if your DS didn't go through it - mine did and he was sleep trained from about 8 wks old and still had terrible phases of sleep disturbance for all sorts of reasons.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 14, 2017, 11:20:33 am
Hi and thank you!  Honestly, things haven't been stable since early July really.  She's always had an early morning waking (around 3-5) but I'd just nurse her and she'd fall right back to sleep.  And before early July, she'd go down easy for both nap and night.  Since then her bed time has been a nightmare and her early am waking has now been 1-2 hours long, with her only going back to sleep for an hour.  I used to be able to nurse her back to sleep (if she had a short night) when she woke in the morning but now she's up and ready to go for the day and barely wants to nurse.
Looking back at my sleep tracking site, it looks like the longer her day, the longer it takes for her to get to sleep, so I'm guessing pushing her nap is the way to go.  I've got it pretty much at 12:30 now but things haven't improved, except for two nights ago she fell asleep after only 45 mins with us having to go in once or twice (this is an improvement!) and then last night, we put her to bed at 6 (due to a 1 hour nap)and she fell asleep in less than 30 mins with no going in to her. 
To add to the confusion, last night I decided to stop nursing her at her early morning waking.  I'm hoping this will help the waking? I'm now doubting myself wondering if it's the wrong time to do this, but now that I've started, I feel I should stick with it for a few nights.  At 3:45 am I t took 2 hours for her to go back down.  I'm hoping tonight is a little easier!  Anyway, your two cents would be very much appreciated!  This mama desperately needs some sleep!  Just a note, her nap has been around 12 since April.  I couldn't push it due to ODS's school schedule, so maybe it just needs to be pushed waaay further to make up for all the months of not pushing the nap?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 14, 2017, 19:07:26 pm
I would not be feeding an 18  month old in the night (not unless there was a bad illness).  I think you're doing the right thing to drop the NF and just deal with all the sleep disturbances in one go - it can't really get worse can it? I mean yes it's likely to get a bit worse for a few days/nights while she gets the idea that things are different but then once it's done it's done.

If your gut instinct is to shift the nap later still then go for it. 1pm?  Whatever you go for I'd stick at it for a good week to see what happens.  Are you going to be able to do the school run if nap is at 1pm though?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 14, 2017, 19:29:23 pm
Thank you!  I think I'll start with 12:45 after this week and see how it goes.  My son will now be in school till later so I can make it work.
Second night of dropping the feed went slightly better.  It still took 2 hours and I still went in 3 times but each time I went in was easier and shorter than the night before.  The bonus??? When she woke at 6:45  after being back to sleep for 1 hour...she went back to sleep again till 7:55 am!!!  Yayyy!!!!  Hays without me going in at all....
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 15, 2017, 06:45:41 am
Possibly too late to say this but if she woke later today I'd use that as the trigger to move the nap later.
Good luck!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 15, 2017, 09:50:29 am
I thought of that but I have to pick my son up from camp this week so can't shift it later till next week.  Just hoping the night wakings get a lot easier soon!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 15, 2017, 12:15:27 pm
Well she fell asleep at 6:42 pm and slept through till 5:08 am!  Woohoo!  Still early but better. If I can't get her back to sleep (I'd usually nurse her back but guess I shouldn't), do I put her down st 12:30 still or back it up by 15 mins?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 15, 2017, 18:55:18 pm
If you have a set time then generally stick with it - obviously when you choose to move a set time you move it and it becomes set again. So for now stick with there 12.30 and then when camps over the 12.45

That's actually not a bad night at all is it :)
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Lindsay27 on August 15, 2017, 19:17:42 pm
^^I agree.  I think you just need to set the nap time and stick to it for a few weeks, her body will adjust to that time.  Once the nap is really consistent/predictable and you are getting a solid nap, then you can float it a bit.  I'd just try to stick to 12:30pm right now.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 17, 2017, 12:35:58 pm
Ok so things have been going fairly ok. She actually went back to sleep that morning until 6:18!  Without me going in!  We had an ugly day and night the day after due to scheduling and a power outage, but things went great yesterday. Nap time 12:30, slept 1.5 hours, put her down for bed at 6:05 (this is the time I've been having the best luck with) asleep at 6:25 pm, woke at 5:20 (maybe earlier but she stared taking st 5:20).    Whew! 
Still early but at least she SLEPT a decent night!  Will hold naps at 12:30 and if still getting EW by this weekend will start shifting to 12:45.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 17, 2017, 18:45:03 pm
That sounds like progress :)

If you move the nap later I'd also move BT too.  TBH I'd accept an 11hr night.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 18, 2017, 01:42:28 am
I'd be fine with an 11 hour night!  But it's a very rare occurrence these days!  It's been a struggle to get 10 lately!  I would love to move bed time later but her day is already soooo long by 6 pm!  She's often been awake we'll over 11 total hours for the day by 6.   For the last 5 days I've put her down between 6 and 6:10 and one night she'll fall asleep on her own within 20 minutes, the next she'll take 2 hours with us having to go in countless times.  What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 18, 2017, 07:26:51 am
I feel you'd get a better overall routine if the nap and BT were set later - as you have another child to care for this is not necessarily possible right now so it is not really that you are doing anything wrong, it's just circumstances.

I'd aim for something like this but I know you have your DS's routine to fit around:
WU 6.30/7am
S 1.00 - 2.30 (although preferably longer to 3pm)
BT 8pm (10.5 - 11hr night)

As it is at the moment I think there is not enough A time before BT.  If she naps 12.30 - 2 it's only around 4hrs A before BT when she might need more like 5.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 18, 2017, 09:51:11 am
Hi!  That schedule sounds amazing!  She falls asleep between 6:25 and 8, most of the time it's between 6:44 and 7 pm. I feel like 1) she needs time to wind down for night time and 2) she gets easily overstimulated if her bed time is later because wakeup is sooo early.  I've tried putting her down later and it ends up taking longer for her to fall asleep more often than not.  I would love a 7:30 BT but when she wakes at 5/5:30 it's just too long and leads to her taking forever to fall asleep and, I feel, causes the really long wakeup at night.
For example, day before yesterday by the time I put her down, she had been awake just over 11 total hours.  She fell asleep in 20 mins and woke at about 5:20 am, still early but a decent night.  Yesterday, she had been awake for a total of 11.5 hours and it took 1h15m for her to fall asleep and she's now been awake for 45 mins at 2 am.  The first night, her nap was longer and A time before putting down was just over 4 hours.  The second night, her nap had been a few minutes shorter and A time before putting down was almost 4.5, so she should have been more tired, but it seems to me she was overtired and couldn't settle.
So I'm in this vicious cycle of her wakeup time being soooo early that she's way OT by the time we get to bed and therefore takes forever to fall asleep and has horrible middle of night wakings (1-2 hours), which then just leads to more OT/OS.  I could be totally wrong, but that's the only sense I can make of it. 
Soooo, how do I get BT later? Just keep doing what I'm doing and gradually push nap and night later, hoping wakeup gets later?  She has always seemed to like a loooong A time before nap and a shorter one before bed.  I agree it's too short, but not sure I have much choice at this point?
Thank you and sorry for the novel!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 18, 2017, 12:49:43 pm
Quick update, she was awake from 2-2:45, not nad, but woke again at 5 and has been struggling to go back to sleep for 30 mins. She's gotten just under 9 hours of total night sleep.  I'm stressing out about getting her to 12:30 pm after horrible night like this...  she tends to sleepnshoeter naps when OT for nap (anywhere from 50 mins to 1h15m.  Sigh...sorry for so much posting. I'm seriously at my wits end. I got just under 5 hours of broken sleep myself last night.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 19, 2017, 02:48:20 am
Ok after thinking it over all day and talking to my husband, we'll try a later bed time. In theory, her body clock should adjust to a new bed time too, right?  If she wakes from her nap around 1:45/2, do bed time at 6:46/7?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 19, 2017, 07:38:57 am
I get what you're saying about the OT making naps and night worse but I do think that moving the whole day on would feel better all round.
If you can move nap later (I mean based on your family constraints not based on her tiredness or bad nights) moving BT later will be easier.
With BT I think you just have to push it. I know she's harder to get down and then has a short night but you'll get past that.
When I moved my DS on I had to go past the planned BT to force a later WU.  He is not good with a later BT even now tbh but if I have to force it I know I can by going beyond where it is needed, waiting for WU to shift and then slowly easing back on BT.
I shifted something like 15 mins per day - after 4 days reached the hour I wanted to move but continued to shift because WU had not moved, another couple of nights (I planned to do 4 more making a full hour beyond where I wanted BT) and WU finally moved. I stuck at that BT for a few days to make sure WU stayed later then slowly brought BT earlier each night.  Initially the night is shorter,losing sleep every night because BT is later and WU doesn't move but that's what I knew would happen and I knew moving slowly would just prolong the OT so I moved faster. That was why 15 mins every day rather than 15 min then waiting 3 or 4 days if that makes sense.
Honestly I was scared of it - it was a gamble and I just hoped it worked.  But when things are bad sometimes it's worth a gamble and just grit your teeth during the first days when it's really hard.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 19, 2017, 13:52:15 pm
Wow that is crazy! Ok, I'm willing to give this a go.  Honestly it can't get much worse, her last two nights were less than 10 hours of sleep.  She actually handles OT fairly well, so wondering if I can just jump BT to 7:30 now.  Or maybe 7:15.  She's been falling asleep after 7:15 anyway the last 2 nights and taking forever to get to sleep so how much worse can it get???  I can shift the nap to 12:45 now and then 1 next week.  No constraints now that camp is over.  Anyway, if i shift the nap to 12:45 today, you think I can just start at 7:25 bed time and shift later 15 mins a day till wake up gets later?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 19, 2017, 17:50:41 pm
Well if she hasn't been falling to sleep until late the last 2 nights anyway then I suppose it's worth the risk - I'd probably do it and just brace myself for a bad night, it always felt easier somehow if I expected the worse.
It really is up to you though - I'm sitting in a safe place lol
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 19, 2017, 21:09:51 pm
Haha!  I have to say I'm nervous to keep pushing her BT, I may just try 7:15 for a couple nights while I'm pushing her nap. Nap went fine today.  She woke at 5:30 am, asleep for nap at 12:40 (10 mins later than usual) woke at 2.  Really hope she starts sleeping soon.  She's doing ok on this amount of sleep, but she's GOT to sleep more at some point, right?  I hope!!!  And honestly, I can't imagine the nights getting much worse.  She's sleeping between 9-10 hours and sometimes waking up for long periods (although this part seems to be getting better).
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 21, 2017, 13:10:03 pm
Ok, nap is at 12:45 for 2 days now.  Moved bed time to 7 the first night (fell asleep at 7:15 on her own yay!!!).  The night was awful, but don't think it was because of bed time, as she fell asleep earlier than usual.  She was having some digestive issues and had poop at 2 am.  Anyway, kept nap time at 12:45 regardless of awful night, she napped 2.5 hours!  Moved bed time to 7:15 because of later nap and she fell asleep on her own at 7:35.  Yayyy!!!!  She was awake from 3:30-4 am but I didn't go in and she is still asleep now at just shyer 6 am.  Whew!  I know this could be a one time thing because she's making up for an awful night and she tends to have a couple good nights and then they go back to bad again.  But I'll hold bed time at 7:15 for one more night and see how it goes!
Thank you for encouraging me to do a later bed time!!!!  I know it's only been 2 days and it could change but it's been wonderful not having to spend an hour getting her to sleep at night!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on August 22, 2017, 06:56:44 am
Yay!!!!!  ;D
Brilliant news - I know what you mean, just having one or two BTs which are not a huge struggle can make a huge difference to our own mood and energy levels!

Great long nap too!!  I'm just wondering if the long nap was down to the baddish night and that a little down the line (few days? week?) moving to 1pm might be more suitable.  Sorry I've forgotten if you're going to be able to do 1pm with other commitments.
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 22, 2017, 11:19:01 am
Hi!  Yes, we can move to 1 pm.  Today's nap was 1h20m but that can be an OT nap for her sometimes. She was already falling asleep when I brought her in from our walk (our wind down routine), which she hasn't done in a long time.   I think I'll let it stay at 12:45 this week and see how the naps go. For BT she kept yawning during dinner so I put her down at 7 since she had a shortish nap and she was asleep by 7:15 on her own!!!!  Fabulous!  I am still getting the NW, tonight at 3:45 am.  I haven't had to go in and it seemed to be getting shorter but tonight was a full hour.  She just lays they're and moans (her settling noise) and rolls around.  Not sure why the NW is happening!?!? I'm super excited about bed time but would love for the NW to go away.
She ended up waking at 6:20 am, just over 10 hours of total nightsleep with the hour long wakeup.  Better for sure but not great! Wondering if I edged bed time back a few mins if her night would get longer. I know that's not what I planned to do, but earlier BT has almost always meant later wake time for her.  I'm always second guessing, sorry!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 27, 2017, 02:35:44 am
Just wanted to stop in and say THANK YOU!!! For the advice on putting her down later to bed.  She still wakes at night almost every night but it has gotten a bit better, she is now waking around 6 am most mornings and the best part???  When I put her down she falls asleep most nights in 10-20 mins with no help. Such a relief!!! I'm working on getting her nap to 1 pm.  Tried today, but she fell asleep on our walk at 12:45.  Hoping by pushing it to 1 it will push wakeup slightly later and maybe help with the night wakings... we will see!  Anyway, thank you soooo much!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: ginger428 on August 28, 2017, 13:19:16 pm
Hi! Wow great news! Creations would be so happy to hear this! She is currently on a break but will return for sure.

Edging back BT is risky... with your current routine, I wouldn't do any earlier than a put down at 7pm.  I've been exactly where you are, and it's easier to put down earlier for nap if the night was short and rough, than try to mess with BT.  Set BTs, give or take 15-30 mins (for you I would say between 7 and 7:30), truly help regulate their sleep, in addition to their digestion.  They're correlated. What do you think?

Just a quick note on the 4am NW... 4-6 is our lightest sleep phase so sometimes noises, discomfort, etc... can cause a full wake.  Do you see any teeth? I think you are doing such a wonderful job giving her the opportunity to go back to sleep... if it continues though after a few days, it might be discomfort. Is there anyone up around this time? Noises outside? LIght?
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on August 30, 2017, 13:12:27 pm
Hi and thank you!  She's still going to bed easy, whew!  She's also now sleeping through the night (I have a feeling that weaning the night feed was to thank for this!) and sleeping about 10 hours without waking most nights.  I have yet to get much more than 10 (maybe 10.5 if I'm lucky) and she's waking between 5:45 and 6 now that there are no NW.  So we're doing waaaay better than before.  Still dealing with EW and am on day 2 of nap at 1 pm so hopefully that wakeup will shift later after a few days.
On the bed time, yes I see what you mean. We have done an earlier bed time than 7 but only when we've been out all day (she will only sleep 20 mins when we're in the car, stroller, etc).  I put her to bed at 6:30 in those cases and she generally sleeps 11.5 hours till 6 am!  EBT has always worked better for us than early nap as the early nap leads her to EW.  But on normal nap days, I agree 7 pm is the earliest it should be!  We've been right around 7:15 lately and it's working ok.  Will update in a few days after we've been at a 1 pm nap.
Thanks again!!!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: ginger428 on August 30, 2017, 20:13:42 pm
More good news! Yay.
Yes, we do EBT occasionally, too... so definitely not to rule it out.  But rarely for us as my DS has never tacked on.. . :-[
They say EBT 2-3 days in a row of EBT will shift schedule, so I think we're safe!
Can't wait to hear how the 1pm nap works. =)

Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: creations on September 01, 2017, 12:12:58 pm
I'm back.  Sorry I had a really bad back and couldn't get on to BW at all.  Bit better now.
Thanks so much for stopping by Ginger  :-*

Hurrah!!  You've made great progress :)  Wonderful news.
WRT the 10 hr nights, honestly if she is now sleeping for those 10 hours (or 10.5) I wouldn't worry too much about it, she might not do longer nights until the nap shortens or goes further down the line.
Also, if she's mantra crying in the night even for long periods Tracy said this is normal.  We od always try to look at routine to see if there is a reason and to see if we can eliminate it but it can also be just part of developmental stuff - I do remember at some point feeling kind of relieved that Tracy had said this is normal and just leave them to it, don't disturb them, only go in if it changes to a proper cry for you.

Lovely - really glad things have improved for you x
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on September 02, 2017, 12:45:58 pm
Hi!  Welcome back!  So sorry about your back but glad it's on the mend.  And yes, thank you Ginger! We are back to EW again the last 3 days (between 5:15 and 5:45) and she seems to go back to sleep off and on till 6 but mostly off.  We've also had a couple of nights of less than 10 hours.  I am putting her down between 7/7:30 every night except days where she takes a 20 min nap on the go.  Most days it's 7:15, asleep by 7:30.  Maybe I should put her down at the exact same time each night so she regulates?  She's had her hands or something in her mouth on and off for weeks.  Her canines are on their way but nothing coming in yet so it's hard to tell if this is teeth. She's had her hands in her mouth more than usual the past day or two so maybe teeth?  I'm fine with 10 hour nights but waking before 6 is too early for us! The only time she seems to sleep a long night (11.5-12 hours) is when she takes a 20 min car nap and goes to bed early!
Title: Re: Trouble getting 16 month old down
Post by: Tabathagucci on September 02, 2017, 22:19:07 pm
To make up for the early wake ups the last two mornings (I've kept nap time the same every day), she's slept 2h15m naps...at least that!

Update: she took the long nap yesterday (1-3:15), put down at 7:35, asleep at 8:05, I woke at 5:30 and she was already awake.  Any idea what could be going on?  Yesterday I nursed her back to sleep for a bit because my MIL is staying with us and  I can't really be up and about with a toddler so early!  I'm tempted to do the same today even though I know I shouldn't!  Thank you!