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ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: NattysMom on October 05, 2017, 01:44:11 am
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My daughter has just turned 5 months old and I'm having issues with short naps and feeding to sleep. She is exclusively BF and eats every 3 hrs with 1-2 Night feeds. I wasn't quite sure which board to put this on, sorry if it's the wrong place.
We started shh-pat at 10 weeks because I wasn't able to put her down until she was in a deep sleep and she would usually wake up the moment I put her down. Now she can go to sleep independently but she wants to be fed until drowsy most of the time.
My easy is not so great, I try to feed when she wakes up but she will only have a little snack just so she's not starving anymore because she wants to be fed to sleep later. I've also tried feeding an hour after waking but she just snacks again. So when nap time rolls around she is ready to take a full feed. The moment she stops eating but drowsy I put her down, she is still awake and I walk away usually with no issues. There are times when she stays awake after eating and goes to sleep no problem but not very often.
I'm trying to stop the eating until drowsy part so I tried waking her up a bit (talk to her, hold up sitting, go outside) when she's drowsy after eating which she did not like. Now only twice after doing this she's been fussing/fighting before each nap and bedtime, like she wants to eat but she doesn't want to get woken up! So she ends up very OT and sometimes we both give in to feeding to sleep.
45 minute naps have been happening since around 6 or 7 weeks, at first she took a longer morning nap but eventually they all became short. I've had no luck extending with shh-pat or W2S, shh-pat she just snaps her eyes wide open and won't go back down and for W2S I've gone in at different times to find the right point in her cycle but they don't go any longer. I tried W2S for morning naps at first and then tried for afternoon naps because she usually wakes up tired. They are almost always 45 mins, very rarely 1-2hr (maybe 3 times in a month). Awake time is usually 2 to 2 hours 30 mins. Usually awake times are longer earlier in the day and they get shorter later in the day as she gets more and more tired. She doesn't use a pacifier. She usually wakes up happy, stretches and talks for 10 mins then cries for me to get her but sometimes later in the afternoon she wakes up still tired.
This is my approx easy give or take 15 mins, sometimes if she wakes up really tired there is an extra nap with shorter awake times in the afternoon.
WU 8
E 830
A 2h15
S 1015-11
E 1130
A 2h30
S 130-215
E 230
A 2h15
S 430-515
E 530
A 2h15
E 7
BT 730
DF 1015
1-2 NF b/t 230-530
Thanks in advance for your help!
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Hi :)
E 830A 2h15S 1015-11
Here, she is having an undertired nap, so you can increase this A time. I'd try 2:30 for a few days and see if that nap lengthens.
E 1130A 2h30S 130-215
Here, she is having an overtired nap, so that tells you she can't quite do 2:30 off a 45min nap, so reduce to 2:15 after a short nap and see how that goes.
With the feeding to sleep - Is she rooting, looking for food at what would be sleep time based on her A time? If so, rooting may just be her sleepy cue as I was for my son, so rather than feeding at that time, putting her down for a nap might reduce the fighting. Its worth a shot.
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Thanks for the reply, I will see how today goes and get back to you. She can barely make it to 2 hours for her first awake time but I'll try to stretch it today.
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Here's our day so far:
WU 820
E 840 Likely not a full feed but refused more
Started wind down at 1020 (turn out lights, white noise, sleep sack)
Started yawning and rested head on shoulder.
Put down and left, fussed for a few mins then started shrieking and sucking on clothes.
Picked up, started rooting, tried pupd for 25 mins, cried as soon as put down every time. She was very tired like she was trying to sleep (closing eyes) but then would snap out of it and get angry, also tried pacifier.
Eventually fed at 1045, she seemed hungry probably bc she didn't eat enough before and I didn't want her to go to sleep hungry.
Put down at 1050 and left, cried 1 min later (this sometimes happens a few times when OT), picked up for 10 secs then left, asleep within a few mins.
Woke up at 1130
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Alright, so she may well be hungry then - something you can do there if she can't manage 4hr is to make it 3hr by giving a topup feed an hour after the main feed - this allows LO to get enough food (and you will just replace these topups with solids soon anyway) and allows her to still get hungry enough in between feeds to take a full feed as it sounds like maybe she's snacking if she's feeding before and after every nap.
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Ok I will try the top up feed.
This is how our next nap went:
Started sleepy cues at 130 (awake 2 hours)
Went to sleep pretty easily at 140 but woke 10 mins later at 150 maybe something woke her up, but woke up happy & chatty; wouldn't resettle
put down at 2, cried pupd, started rooting
Fed at 205 but this time she stopped before she got drowsy
Stayed awake for a bit
Started to get sleepy at 220; Put down at 225, tried to sleep, left room, resettled several times, prob OT by now
Slept from 240-320
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This is the rest of our day:
Woke up happy from last nap at 320
A 1h55
E 430
S 515-555 husband put down, took approx 20 mins of pupd, woke up tired
A 2h15
E 7 had a bottle (only ate 3oz)
BT down at 8 after 10 mins of pupd, cried out at 810 but resettled with a shhhh from hall.
She'll have a dreamfeed at 1015
We'll start again fresh tomorrow with the top off after an hour. We don't usually do bottle but we're having a babysitter tomorrow night and wanted to see how she'd be with the bottle, I'm surprised she only ate 3oz.
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One night feed at 2am
WU 710
E 710
810 top off: didn't want to eat
830 Tried again and she ate just past let down
845 started getting fussy/tired
920 very upset, only wanted to be held
925 nap routine, started whining, walked around house, every time entered her room she started to cry, after 10 mins, went to her room and she tried rooting but only once then at 937 she relaxed and closed her eyes
938 put down
939 left room
S 940-1010
She had a really hard time making it 2h30 for her first awake time and her nap was only 30 mins so isn't that OT, should I go back to 2h15?
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WU 710
E 710
A
E 830
A
S 940-1010
A
E 1110
I'm now giving her main feed at 1110 which she wanted at 1040 but I stretched it.
How can I give her a top up in an hour or so if that's her next nap time?
She's already rubbing her eyes and I think she should have a shorter awake time since the short nap. If we had longer naps we wouldn't have this Issue but I'm not sure how to deal with this?
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The rest of today is kind of a disaster as we had chainsawing and wood chipping outside on our street so her nap was in the car because she couldn't sleep at home and then we have a grandparents watching tonight so we shall start fresh tomorrow! Thank you for your help so far! :)
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Ok, so by main feed, I mean the feed when she wakes up - No need to make her wait if she's woken and hungry.
The issue with going to 2:15 A time is that she was taking 45min UT naps there so increasing to 2:30 is reasonable. It can take a few days for LO to get used to the new A time and 30min OT naps can happen but should be relatively easy to resettle.
You're right, you should reduce the A time by about 15min or so after a short nap.
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Yesterday she had a short morning nap which she wouldn't extend but then had a 1.5 hour nap in the afternoon. And today she's going on 1.5 hour for her morning nap! Yay!! Thank you so much! I had tried increasing her first awake time in the past but then she was OT so I thought it was too much, I didn't realize I had to stick with it. We will see this afternoon if she does it again.
Do you think she should be taking 2 long naps or is just 1 ok?
Also if she goes past 2 hours would you wake her up or let her have as much as she wants?
And the top ups are keeping her satisfied for naps but she never takes a full feed. I suppose it's only for a few weeks until we start solids so hopefully it all works out.
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Do you think she should be taking 2 long naps or is just 1 ok?
A this age, ideally there are 2x1.5hr naps and a catnap. You're headed for dropping the catnap and moving to 2 long naps by around 6-7 months - this will happen reasonably naturally if you just watch her for cues and increase A times gradually.
Also if she goes past 2 hours would you wake her up or let her have as much as she wants?
I tend to suggest that you cap the nap if it goes more than 2hr by going in and watching for LO to stir around 2:15 and just wake them when they stir - its nicer to wake up that way, less screaming ;) Otherwise, wake at 2:30 absolute max. nap time, especially if its the first nap of the day or you can get problems with the first part of your night.
And the top ups are keeping her satisfied for naps but she never takes a full feed. I suppose it's only for a few weeks until we start solids so hopefully it all works out.
Does she take a bigger feed when she first wakes? You can wean the topups by just moving them closer to the main feed but given you'll start solids soon, its potentially not worth it - your call :)
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So far she's had 1 long nap 3 out of 4 days! Woohoo!!
Usually her main feed is barely anything, she takes more from the top up and I worry she's getting too much foremilk (based on her poo). Except yesterday she ate at her main feeds better and refused all top ups.
Last night she woke up way more than usual, ate at 7, bed at 730, DF 10 then woke at 1215, 150 (ate decent both times) then woke at 515 ate a bit and wouldn't go back to sleep until 7, usually it's once, maybe twice and not that early in the night.
Woke at 830, at 9 she was hungry but barely ate to let down for her main and kept refusing. She eventually ate more a half hour before her nap.
She's all over the place right now. I'm worried when we start solids it will be hard because I'll want her to take a full feed first which some days it is never it seems.
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I worry she's getting too much foremilk (based on her poo).
Are you feeding from one or both breasts at each feed? If you're doing one for each feed, I'd suggest doing the main feed and topup from the same breast, then giving the other if she's still hungry.
You can also try massaging the breast close to the chest wall (not near the areola/nipple area) to help break the fat off the walls of the ducts so the fat content is higher from the start of the feed.
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I feed from one side only at each feed, very rarely she'll have the second, sometimes before bed which is when she eats the most. I use the same side for the top up, I will try the massage.
She only had short naps yesterday and didn't eat much. Last night she was up more than normal to eat again. I was thinking growth spurt since she's rolling both ways and sitting up this week but she's eating less during the day so that's seems weird.
Recap of 2 nights ago:
NF 1215
NF 150
NF 515, Finally back to sleep around 7
Yesterday's day:
WU 830 not hungry
E 910 didn't eat much
A
E 1030 top up - refused a couple times then finally ate more, wanted to sleep
A 2h30
S 11-1140
A
E 1245 barely ate
A 2h
S 140-220
E 230 Ate ok
A
E 340 top up - refused 3X
A 2h10
S 430-515
A
E 6
A 2h15
E 7
BT 730
Woke at 925 to eat so skipped DF at 1015
NF 1210
NF 330
woke up at some point but went back to sleep
NF 6 wouldn't go back to sleep until 7
Today so far:
WU 8 not hungry
A
E 925 fell asleep eating so woke her up
Won't bother with top up since she ate decent and so late after waking
First nap will be at 1030
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Here is how today went, still getting short naps. She ate better, I think she's distracted and not taking full feeds. We went through distracted eating at 4 months, we made some changes and she got better but now she's doing it again! Top ups were closer to main feed because she was eating about an hour after each wake up. Naps were all 40/45. We're still doing the 2h30 for the first awake time. I also tried feeding more before bed since she eats better at this time so hopefully tonight won't have so many wake ups.
NF 1210
NF 330
NF 6 Back to sleep at 7ish
WU 8 not hungry yet
E 925
A 2h40
S 1040-1120 didn't seem sleepy for nap maybe bc she kinda slept during feed?
A
E 1220 very hungry; ate decent
A whiny (tired?)
E 1250 top up; sleepy
A 2h05
S 125-2 stroller
A
E 315
A
E 345 top up
A 2h30 lengthened by poop
S 430-515 (went down fussy, prob OT)
A
E 525
A 2h15
E 640
BT 730
DF will be at 1015/1030 if she doesn't wake up before that
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She might need more A time, those are all UT naps. How old is she now? Has she ever slept a long (1hr+) nap?
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She is 5m and 10 days. She has done long naps but only a few times a month. Since starting the 2h30 A time in the morning she had a 1hr25 on Saturday, 1hr30 on Sunday and 1hr50 on Tuesday. But only short ones the last few days. Before that the last time was 2hr on Sept 14. The first day doing 2h30 A time was hard for her and she was OT but after that she wasn't as tired. She has always been able to stay awake the max for the most part. I'll see how 2h45 A time before first nap goes for a few days.
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Since starting the 2h30 A time in the morning she had a 1hr25 on Saturday, 1hr30 on Sunday and 1hr50 on Tuesday. But only short ones the last few days. Before
This is a good sign she needs a bit more A time, so that's reasonable to try more.
Wondering why you think she's not eating much? Sometimes when you feed like this and LO knows when the next feed is, they just get on with it and are more efficient. Is she seeming contented between feeds and still making enough wet nappies? If so, she's prpbably taking enough milk in.
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She's been doing longer A times the last 2 days with no problem, but still short naps.
Her night feedings are back to normal for the most part except in the early morning hours she wants to stay up for an hour or more.
Sometimes she only eats for 2 mins, she'll get to let down and it's too much to handle so she pulls off. Or sometimes she will make it just past the let down but then needs a break after only 3 or 4 mins and doesn't want more. She can barely make it 3 hours between feeds. She just eats way longer (8-20 mins) before bed and during the dreamfeed and night feeds when she's more focused on eating. I guess she could be more efficient during the day and slower and sleepy at night?
I'll try not to worry about it for now, she'll be weighed on Monday so we'll see where she's at. The last dr appt she had dropped from 15th to 3rd percentile for weight and she's a small skinny baby so Ive been worrying about her eating enough.
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She had a very long A time before bed last night because we were at a family dinner and she wouldn't nap there so maybe that is the reason she woke up 6 times from BT to WU!!
Anyway this is the reason I thought I had a feeding to sleep issue and she was doing this very often when I originally wrote this post:
She woke up at 830am (she ate last at 7am) so she didn't seem hungry until 10am. She ate until let down for 1-2 mins then pulled off and didn't want anymore. Tried again at 1020, wouldn't eat, was fussy every time I sat down to feed her but acting hungry; offered both sides at 1040 but refused; pooped so thought maybe that's why she wouldn't eat but still wouldn't.
Started wind down for nap at 1110
She ate a full feed at 1115 When she knew she was about to nap; immediately had her eyes closed and was fed to sleep
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Ok, sounds like she is not liking that letdown - have you tried lying back when you feed her? Check out biological nurturing - just google it :)
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When she was younger she would have a really hard time with letdown (pulling off choking), she's much better now. When she pulls off I hand express it into a cloth until it calms down. I've experimented with all breastfeeding positions and laid back is the one we use. Lately she's wanted to try straddle position but we have a hard time making it work comfortably. I just don't understand why she is fine with it some of the time, especially when she's half asleep she handles it better. I feel like I can never figure out what the problem is because it's so inconsistent and that we've tried everything.
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She's been better with eating the past 2 days since it's been working out that she eats when she wakes.
With 2h45 first A yesterday she had a 1h30 nap in the morning and today had a 2h nap in the afternoon (woke on her own) so I'm also dropping the 3rd catnap today and she'll have an earlier BT. Today after the morning 45 min nap she had 2h20 A time. Maybe we can get to 2 long naps every day and she won't need the 3rd nap anymore. She still doesn't seem very tired before the 1st nap, should I try 3h for the first A time?
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Maybe we can get to 2 long naps every day and she won't need the 3rd nap anymore.
Yep, this is about the age for it.
If you think she can do 3hr , definitely worth trying. Given she's doing a 45min nap off 2:45 that's pretty reasonable.
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I’m still having short naps issues, it’s been almost a month since adjusting the first morning awake time. About half the time she’ll take a longer nap ranging from 1h10-2h. Half are in the morning and half are in the afternoon.
My new problem is she wakes up at night, she’ll eat very little so she’s probably not very hungry since it’s usually her second waking and she is wide awake for about 1.5 hours. It can be at midnight, 3 or 5am. She also was doing only 1 NW/NF for a while which was lovely so I’m wondering where that went. She has done this every night for the past 7 days. Before that it was 5 out of 10 days with 2 NF but she would go right back to sleep. We started solids 8 days ago so I’m guessing its related? She has a small amount in the morning after her first feed.
Sometimes she will sleep until 8am after being up in the night but sometimes she’s up earlier and gets tired very early so she can’t do the 3h first awake time, barely 2h. So our WU, naps and BT are being affected as well.
Will she grow out of this soon!? I’m like a zombie, going to bed at 8pm tonight.
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Hi there NattysMom
How are things now? If you are still having difficulties and need support can I suggest you start a new thread as your LO is a month older now and the situation has likely changed quite a bit.