BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: SNSmith on December 21, 2017, 00:10:04 am
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My 10 week old is a good sleeper, especially in the RNP. We started her on EASY from the beginning and have worked with her for drowsy but awake and crib sleeping most days. However, since becoming more alert it’s been hard to identify her ideal awake times throughout the day. I wonder if it’s causing short naps and difficulty at bedtime?
Could use some advice on the routine. TIA!
Today so far:
545 eat/awake
710 sleep (took 20 min)
740 awake, took 10 min to resettle her back to sleep, this time in RNP
850 eat/awake
1010 sleep (took 10 min)
1045 awake, took 20 mins to resettle back to sleep in RNP
1150 awake
1200 eat/awake
120 sleep (took 20 min)
145 tried W2S for the first time touching her chest gently. At first she seemed to sleep through it, then stirred a little, then woke a minute later so I’m afraid I did it wrong. Couldn’t extend this nap.
210 tried putting her down again after a little more awake time, no dice.
220 eat/awake
300 went for a walk thinking she might nod off but she didn’t
355 sleep (took 10 min)
She used to sleep 1-2 hrs for naps and resettle herself more readily. How to move back in that direction? This post on habitual nap waking possibly sounds like her: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=213387.0 but I️ wondered how long do you use these methods before they start sleeping on their own?
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Hi - i am sorry that your post has been missed - how are things now? xx
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Hi there!
Thanks for catching this. Things are going alright at night but naps are still very short and difficult to extend. I’ve tried shifting A time to less or more but it hasn’t changed nap time. Maybe once a week she will take a 1-2 hour nap and I can’t for the life of me figure out how to repeat. With the short naps she sometimes wakes hungry and it’s more of a 2.5hr EAS. Should I offer a snack of 1oz or so before bed or will this become a snacking habit down the road. FTM here and she is 11.5 weeks now (:
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Ok, so this is my impression reading what you've written and assuming things between the lines - correct me if I'm wrong, please!
She seems to sleep better in the RNP - presume she's up on an angle rather than lying flat here.
She seems to wake after about 10-20mins lying flat.
You're putting her down for naps after less than an hour and she's taking a while to fall asleep.
You're worried about OT, so keep trying for naps if the nap didn't go well.
I think at this point, the easiest thing for you and your DD will be to do 1.5hr from when she wakes to when she goes to sleep (as best you can - try putting her down at ~1:25 and see how she goes). Put her somewhere she will sleep well - if that's the RNP, put her down there for now. Lets get her used to sleeping properly during the day, then work on where that sleep happens. If she has a short nap you can't resettle, do 1:15 A time before the next nap - its an easy trap to fall into - reducing the A time too much after a short nap and having an undertired baby who doesn't really want to sleep because you're trying to avoid OT.
Is she draining the bottles you're offering when she wakes? If so, you can increase those - she should be leaving a little bit in the bottle is my understanding. If she is not draining them but is waking hungry (are you sure its not just that she knows food comes after sleep?) then its worth doing a topup - I would do that 30-45mins after her main feed so its a topup in her A time and she's not going to learn to fall asleep on the bottle and you can gradually bring the topup closer to the main feed and combine them as she grows to avoid snacking.
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One other thing I wanted to raise is the possibility of reflux. Have a read here: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0
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Thank you for that, I do wonder about reflux so we’ve propped the crib up a bit on one end. The funny thing is she sleeps fine in there at night for 5-6 hrs, eats and right back down flat, then 3-4 hrs. I have also heard her put herself back to sleep in the night many times. Could it still be reflux?
As for OT, this morning I started the nap routine after 1 hour. She cried for 10 mins as she always seems to do with the routine, I let her finish the 1/2 oz in her bottle and she was out after 1hr 10min of A time. She then slept for almost an hour (55min). Could this be a clue?
Also we are feeding breast and bottle (low supply) with a preemie nipple so especially if she seems hungry after the feed routine and needs another ounce or two it has been an hour just feeding, burping and diaper.
Thanks for the thoughts!
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It is less likely but still possible reflux.
55min is an UT nap, so 1:10 is too short...
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If reflux is it important for her to get in meds to take care of it? Or will it resolve on its own?
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Depends how bad it is. Its worth talking to your doctor. There are some good pages of information on this board: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=13.0
How are the naps going?
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Let’s see, yesterday was 1hr for first AM nap in crib (extended with me rocking her), then two 30 minute naps around noon and 2:30, then a 2hr nap at 4:30pm in the RNP. I am noticing a wet cough that wakes her up crying and Dr previously prescribed Zantac which I gave her for the first time last night (couldn’t figure how to do on empty stomach though). Then she slept the night with one 1am wake up and has had 1 hr nap today in the AM and a 40 min nap, both in the RNP. I gave a second dose of Zantac with breakfast.
With short naps how much do I change A time if at all?
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Ah I was re-reading your previous post and it sounds like short nap = 10 mins less A time, is that right? Then if after 2 short naps do I decrease A time further to 1 hr?
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Today so far:
630 awake
7 eat
715 tired cues?
745 sleep (needed a top off)
825 awake
9 eat
1005 sleep, no snack
1050 awake
Are the 45 min naps UT? They are in RNP by the way and we have started meds for reflux 2 days ago.
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630 awake7 eat715 tired cues?745 sleep (needed a top off)825 awake
Yep, this is an UT nap after 1:15 A time. She really needs minimum 1.5hr when she wakes - that will go to 2hr by the time she's 4 months old, so A time really does increase quite steeply by ~15mins per fortnight for the next few months.
825 awake9 eat 1005 sleep, no snack1050 awake
Here, she's had an UT nap off a short UT nap and 1:40 A time so she may need more like 1:45 as her regular A time with a small reduction of ~10mins after a short nap.
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Ok just checking in regarding the short naps. Jazzy has been on meds for reflux since day after first post. I do believe it has helped. As well she has done some napping in the RNP but surprisingly haven't had a nap over an hour for a week or two now regardless. She's just 3 months now. I've been playing with A times between 1:35 to nearly 2 hours resulting in a mix of nap lengths but mainly around 40 mins. I've been haunting the boards re: other short nappers and I'm wondering if this will sort itself out in time into those elusive 1.5hr naps once her A time is past 2 hr? She's been doing great with shh pat and has just transitioned out of the swaddle fwiw. TIA!
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It can certainly be developmental at this age. I think that is a reasonable thought given she's not doing a longer nap even with quite long A times and hasn't gone beyond 40min in a couple of weeks. You could try wake to sleep - get her to stir around 25-30mins and see if that resets her nap clock and she'll nap longer. It may or may not work but its worth a try.
Is the change related to weaning the swaddle? If so, you could try hold through the jolts as she may be waking herself and not quite knowing how to settle herself back to sleep again.
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You know this morning I reswaddled and did a HTTJ and she slept 1hr 15. Perhaps that’s a clue.
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That's probably a big clue. Did you unswaddle for safety reasons because she's been rolling or just because you thought she might be ok?
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She’s not rolling yet but would break out and wake herself up with her hands. I’ve been meaning to look around on here for swaddle transition info as it is still happening. I suppose it may be a safety issue still, I’m not sure.
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I’m going to try HTTJ again with the current nap- set a timer haha! ;D
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Swaddle weaning FAQ: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=251444.0
Good luck with HTTJ!
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Related to the short naps, little Jasmine is now 3.5 months and bedtime is becoming more of a struggle I believe due to OT throughout the day. Thus I’ve resumed efforts to extend naps. HTTJ and shh pat don’t seem to really keep her down for long, I’m in there maybe 30 mins and she seems fast asleep after the jolts but then pops back awake soon after, often crying. I began W2S today but I understand it to take a couple of days. Working to extend her midday nap I finally resorted to pu/pd. She didn’t resettle, ended up getting hungry and so I fed her. I was putting her down 10 mins early for the next nap to avoid OT (4s WD routine unchanged) but she screamed almost a pain scream at the sight of the crib and became hysterical in my arms. I unswadeled, checked her diaper tightness and her little toes for maybe a hair wrapped around. Nothing. Eventually I’ve shh patted her in my arms and she was nearly gone when I laid her down. I’ve never done CIO and she’s always been fine in the crib. Usually she shh pats in arms then in the crib and then she’s off to sleep. But goodness I am worried I’ve broken trust with her with pu/pd! Could it have been an OT cry or have I done something wrong? Hard to be consistent in pu/pd if she’ll be crying like that but perhaps it was just this once? :'(
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As an addendum, after that incident she’s been sleeping 1.5hrs.... ???
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What sort of A time are you going for at the moment? Thinking she may be UT rather than OT...
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I think you might be right. We’ve been at 1:45 A times
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Give it a little push and see how she goes :) If the issue is that she's doing short naps and she resisted nap time then had a longer A time and slept 1.5hr, that just all sounds UT.
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Ok I’ll give it a go!
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Do I count A times when extending naps as from first stirring or from last “sleep”?
Our day:
Awoke 7:10
E 7:30
A
E 8:30 top up
A
S 9:10
A 9:50 -> shh patted and seemed to go back to sleep but I was patting for 30 mins and then she woke and I didn’t continue
E 11am
A
S 11:55am
So I began WD at A of 1:50 from first jolting at 9:50 but she cried as though UT so I wondered if the half-sleep during nap extension counts as A time or S time? When to begin WD....
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Count A time from when she's up, fully awake, out of bed doing things.
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Just wanted to report a victory! I had been taking a break on extending naps and yesterday she was tired on the short naps, couldn't make it to her usual A time. I put her to bed and she didn't stir after 40 mins (great!), then she stirred around 11pm-midnight but we resettled her with shh pat as she doesn't normally feed that early in the night. THEN she just slept through till 6am!! :o So she went 12 hours without a feed and woke happy!
This resulted in her easily having a happy 2 hour morning A time (some days she's quite tired in the morning and wants a morning nap early) and THEN she extended her nap now going on 1hr 15min (still napping) with just some HTTJ.
Overall a day for sleep victories! Hope that encourages anyone in the thick of nap extensions or early wakings.
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Yay! That's great.
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DD is 5 months now and within the last week she consistently takes a morning nap of 1.5-2hr without any help from me. In fact I sleep through it now :) she even did one day where I helped her extend her afternoon nap as well. It was crazy.
Just wanted to share for the many mamas breaking their backs over cribs trying to extend naps haha
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Yay! glad things are getting better for you both :)