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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: JennVanessa1083 on December 21, 2017, 03:23:41 am
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So we are dealing with a cranky toddler who is desperately fighting sleep despite being tired. We have dealt with 2 year molars for months(since July) and it looks as though one tiny peak is left to break through and we are DONE! Nights and naps have been all over the place. I think I’m dealing with an OT loop bc he’s getting harder to put down, he gets tired super early sometimes drifting off an hour early with the nanny, and cranky and wired by the evening. Tonight he was throwing everything around and tantruming so much which is unlike him.
I honestly don’t know how to get him back on track. He’s 2.5 now so what’s a good EASY to start with in this situation?
Thank you!
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How long a day does he have? Any naps still?
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Have you ever tried a set nap? I find at this age this worked better than an EASY routine with my kids? I may bring BT a little early if she woke up really early in the morning or if her nap was short but otherwise it is always the same routine.
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I try to keep it at 13 hour days when his naps are an hour or longer and 12-12.5 days when he short naps. I’ll admit those days are harder when we are both working bc then we rush to get him to bed on time. It’s rare when he skips a nap.
He tends to stall bedtime claiming he’s hungry, needs water, wants milk, asks to read more books even though we read a couple etc.
We haven’t done set naps before successfully. Last time I tried was before he was 2 and that didn’t last bc I was bad at setting wake up lol
I could try it. Today he fought his nap for 45 minutes despite being notably tired from a short night with NW.
What was your typical EASY?
I have been attempting a 6 hour A before nap with naps around 1.25-1.5. Then I try to keep it to a 13 hour day so bedtime would be about 5.5A after nap.
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Hi! Sorry for the delay in responding to you! It’s been hectic!
All 3 kids went to daycare with a nap at 1PM so we always kept that schedule at home too. It was very predictable and the kids always did well with that. A short play time after lunch and then a nap. DS is 6 and still on that nap routine on weekends (he is so tired from kindergarten) and DD1 is 8.5 and although she does not sleep she does a ‘rest’ or quiet play in her room at 1 too.
DD2 is about the same age as your DS, we keep the nap at 1 regardless of WU times. Her normal routine is WU at 6:30, nap 1-3 (sometimes 1-2:30) and BT will be around 7:30 although we adjust that based on how tired she is, it can be as early as 7 or as late as 8. She had a bout of EW recently which was hard but we still kept the same routine and she ended up readjusting.
Good luck and enjoy the holidays!!
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But how do I start?
I’m getting huge nap resistance and he’s wired by night bc he takes his nap so late!
His wakeup time is much later due to a late night on Christmas Eve. He keeps fighting his nap for about 45 minutes. He gives me all the signs he’s tired but still resists. We both end in tears bc of the ordeal.
I can’t tell if he needs a push in A or that he’s so overtired that he’s fighting all sleep.
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Have you tried the nap earlier in case your missing the window!?
My DS2 is 2 next month and I have nap around 12.45/1pm regardless of WU if he’s had an awful night I might go 10 mins earlier. I find if it gets past 1 he’s hyper and can’t calm down as gone past it.
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So what is his routine like at the moment? How long has the nap résistance been going on?
We did have a sleep regression with DD2 recently, she difn’t Fight naps but she was EW for a while. Maybe this is why he is fighting naps? Does he fight them every single day?
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HI ladies!
I definitely think it’s when I miss hiswindow. He seems much harder to put down if he’s had a short night and I put him down at the regular time or when I surpass his A.
Because of his molars we had inconsistencies in his EASY but roughly we had:
WU 7:30
S 1:30-3:30 (sometimes would go down at 1:45; sometimes took shorter naps )
BT 8:30
Then we started getting bedtime resistance when he did long naps. He goes down much easier when he’s had a1.5 nap rather than2 hours. Again it was hard to tease out what was molars and what was tweaking. I think I need to basically start over in doing an EASY for a few days to a week to see if tweaking is necessary. I’m just so far off I didn’t know what should be my baseline.
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Ahhhhhhhhhh
I need some insight. For two days we seemed to get ack on track then BOOM today he fights his nap for almost an hour. Could 10 minutes make a difference in being OT. He would look like he was drifting then nope rolling around kicking his legs. Repeat. He finally drifted at 7A 😬
We are slowly getting him back to his normal wakeup time (holiday late nights, hosting family for 2 weeks etc) which finally happened today accidentally. I’m pretty sure he got OT again or is it he starts out UT thengets OT. Sigh I’m doubting myself in all of this. Molars as I said made his sleep a over the place despite having a consistent wakeup everyday.
Last two days:
WU 8:20 am
S 2:40- 4:20 pm
BT 9:50 pm (maybe I should have done earlier?)
WU 8 am
S 2:05-3:35 pm
BT 9:25 pm (took a bit to fall asleep)
WU 7:30 am (finally)
S 2:30-
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Hi I didn’t do A timed at this age so not sure on the 10 mins but really! Have you just tried letting him have a nap later on if he’s fighting it maybe ease off for a bit?
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When he goes down later he fights so much which is why I hesitate to do a set nap. Has that happened to anyone?
I honestly don’t want to run on A times anymore. I am seeing that we have to cap it at 1.5 bc we had UT stuff when I let it go longer.
Today he took an earlier nap again. I guess I’ll try to stick to the following?
WU 7:30
S 1:30ish-3 pm
BT 8:30 pm
Tonight he fought bedtime sigh but I know it’s from a longer nap and long day.
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Onbthe day you had I’d say that looked pretty good but nap might need capping a bit x
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Yea for sure but how much should I do? Shorter than 1.5? Would I keep bedtime the exact same? So basically shave off the end of the nap?
Today he woke up at 7 after going to sleep at 10 and had 2 NW 😲. Totaling barely 9 hours. His nap accidentally went over; it was almost 2.25 hours long.
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Id prob try 45 min nap and bring BT 15/30 mins earlier x
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Oh wow!
Ok so something like:
WU 7:30 am
S 1:30ish-2:15ish pm
BT 8 pm? Or a little earlier?
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Maybe try little earlier for BT or judge his mood. I know it seems a short nap but for us with DS1 I got sick of being up and down the stairs till 9.30pm so I just decided we needed to get a longer nightcand less day sleep.
Give it s week of trying and see what happens, you can always change it again if it’s not working x
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We are trudging along. I haven’t cut his nap to be honest c he keeps saying his tooth hurts. Should I cut it anyways?
I have noticed that when he goes down right at the normal scheduled nap then it takes longer for him to go to bed. If his nap is later say by a half hour, he is easier to get to sleep. Is that common?
Do they still need 13 hour days with an hour nap? Or should I aim for a shorter day with an hour nap?
I was trying to do it gradually...to see if we found a sweet spot. Maybe I’m just in denial lol
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Hi
To be honest I’d either cut the nap and do earlier to beddpr leave nap longer and accept later BT for a while.
We did go through a phase of 14 hour days when nap needed to be shortened etc.x
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This is helpful. I definitely see where the nap needs to be cut. I will continue to work on being consistent and hopefully it will work itself out.
Is there a regression? Maybe because he is talking all the time now?
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There are developmental leaps every birthday and half birthday so that could contribute x
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Ok it seems that way shhheeeessshhh! I am going to keep plugging away at shortening the nap. He takes his best naps between 6-6:15A. But with the holidays and tons of traveling back and forth throughout December and January, it’s been really hard to get back to a good routine. Our problem is him fighting the nap when we are even 15 minutes late. So it messes up the day bc he takes a very late nap then I’m scared to put him to bed at the normal time bc I’m scared of long NW which has happened.
What do I do if say he finally drops off at 7A? Do I establish a permanent wakeup time despite when he naps so that there is still a decent BT or do I still do normal BT bc it makes up for the crazy long morning prior to naptime?
I’m hoping things will calm down now that we are done with celebrations for awhile sonhoping we can get back to a solid routine.
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I honestly can’t say on A times at this age we didn’t go by A time just set naps and to be honest most naps were apopped by now as he was refusing. Mostly we had to be up from sleep by 3pm to get 8pm BT.
At this age if there is a long late nap I’d prob doubt you’d get normal BT but you never know, some prefer short A to bed. Just poss have to play around till you get the right balance. By 28 months are naps were down to 20 mins max and pretty soon after gone and shorter days.
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This is hard! Today he fought his nap in the car for an hour. I woke him up at 45 and he is currently sleep for the last hour!
Could he be super OT from all the UT mess? Like a cycle?
I feel like he’s having shorter nights (9.5-10) and fighting sleep all around despite being obviously tired. Like forcing his eyes to be open. I’m so lost.
Today he was up at 7:45, finally fell asleep at 3:30 pm; woke him up at 4:15; put him down at 8:40 pm
Should I have put him down sooner? Or maybe just said forget the nap. I feel like this is going to happen again and I won’t know what to do.
He also has a cold now which is why I’m getting frustrated with his continued lack of rest.
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With the transition to no nap it is a bit of a case of winging it some days. On that day I’d I’d prob of done what you did x
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Thank you. I’m having A really hard time with this. He keeps fighting his nap. Today I put him down at 1:30 to be asleep by 1:45 and he didn’t sleep at all. He’s a wreck. what do I do?
Maybe he needs his nap pushed out?
Today he woke up at 7:45ish.
He’s not ready to drop the nap completely that’s evident by his behavior right now.
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Sorry didn’t get chance to reply how was the night?
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It’s ok!
I put him down before 7 (the earliest I could put him down), he still fought sleep for almost a half hour. He finally passed out at about 7:20 am. He stirred at an hour crying and flailing around but then went back to sleep quickly. After that he slept through to 7. So overall he got 11.75 hours.
He hasn’t slept through the night like this in for fever but the day was rough with him not napping. He was super wired and irritable. His speech wasn’t as clear as usual. I could tell he definitely needed a nap.
My question is now what? I was planning to have my husband put him down at 1 pm (6A). How long should he sleep? Full nap or capped?
I’m still unsure what’s happening with him fighting naps so much either.
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it’s really if you think you’d rather he long napped but had a longer day or cap nap and shorter day?
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That day he slept fine.
Today he fought his nap again for an hour and 20 minutes! Flailing around and resisting. He had a rough night on Wednesday then yesterday my mom let him nap for nearly 3 hours then he went to bed ok still sleeping10.5 hours.
Yesterday:
WU 7:15 am
S 2-5 pm (resisted sleep my mom told me)
BT 9:45 pm (asleep by)
Today:
WU 8 am
S 3:20- (put him down at 2; he was happily playing when I scooped him up for a nap)
Is this a recipe for NND?
He said his tooth hurt but I’ll admit that’s random bc it looked like his teeth were in. He’s also pretty congested this week but no fever. I would think he would want to sleep more.
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I would’ve done NND following the good sleep the day before but stook to 11.5/12 hour day!
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I guess I can try that next time bc to be honest these sleep fights leave me feeling incredibly frustrated. He finally fell asleep but woke up in a awful mood. So I can try the NND when this happens again.
Is it normal for them to be irritable on a NND? Or extremely wired?
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To be honest this is why a lot just give up on naps because it’s not worth the fight.
It takes a while getting used to NND so that’s why EBT is important to start with, or a 20 min CN to see him through to not so early BT.
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Ok that’s helpful!
I have a question: do people push out the nap and cap it to shorten it to have a decent bedtime? There are times he fights it well past usual naptime (45 minutes on average); I think you mentioned sticking to a wakeup time no matter what. Does that mean an earlier bedtime when this happens?
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It varies on child but for us I used to let nap be later then cap it.
I used to have WU by 2.30 for proper nap but if it was a CN then I’d say 20 mins but awake for 3.30pm with morning WU of around 6.30.
Yes earlier BT if nap shorter or morning WU early but not for too many days or they get used to it.
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Yea I think a proper nap I have to wake up by 3 pm if I want a 8 pm bedtime but that’s if I cap it at 1.5. The last 3 days he’s been pushing his nap to 7 hours but then most days will nap normally after 6 hours. The days he pushes is when he seems tired but then just rolls around and doesn’t stop moving.
Today he just skipped his nap. I can’t tell if it’s UT or OT. Today I would think he would ant to nap considering he had a bit of a short night; just shy of 10 hours.
So I guess I’m wondering if hats a sign I push for a later nap with the same capping? Or cap it slightly later with the same bedtime?
So something like:
WU 7:30
S 2/2:30 pm- 3:30 pm
S 8:30 pm?
But I think he wouldn’t go down at 8:30 if he does a 1.5 nap waking up at 3:30 🧐
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I’d prob go shortyer than 1.5 hours of its later in the day, maybe try 45 mins?
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Ok I can do that. I definitely want to keep bedtime somewhat consistent. So if he does something like:
7:30 am
S 2:30-3:15 pm
BT 8 pm?
Does that sound reasonable?
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Yes sounds good might even need BT tad earlier x
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Like 7:30-7:45?
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Yes, I’d prob see what the mood is around 7.30 and head off to bed with maybe tjoightbof doing extra strong x
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OK I definitely have to take the plunge consistently. He’s been Having 9 hour nights every night this week despite the longer day with a 1.5,nap. Days with 1 or shorter, he sleeps longer.
I thought the longer day may help but it didn’t.
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I think you’ve kind of answered your own question ;) start reducing day sleep I’d say x
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Haha yea I guess I did. Can you tell I’m a first time mom 😁
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Ha ha I’m second time round and still forget x
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Haha!
So yesterday he did a 45 minutes nap but went to bed late because my husband struggled to get him to bed on time.
He did:
WU 6:45 (short night)
S 12:30-1:15 pm (in the stroller from the library)
BT 8:05 pm
He did a 10.75 night. Isn’t that low for his age?
Today the nanny woke him up after an hour from 2:30-3:30 after he resisted sleep and now it’s almost 9:30 and he’s still up 🙄
Today was:
WU 6:45 am
S 2:30-3:30 pm
BT still up (9:20)
So my question is could this be a OT cycle?she said he woke up very cranky. I should have had her wake him up at 3-3:15 Right? Maybe he would have went down easily by 8?
Days like these confuse me bc I would think he would still be super tired from such a long morning and being woken up from his nap.
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How old is he now? My DS1 had a short night phase before we dropped nap.
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He’s about 33 months now
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I’d defo be thinking about shortening nap at that age. I found anything over 20 mins at that age resulted in cranky child for a good hour x
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Hello!
This
It’s me again lol. I will be writing a separate post around the GW, but I had a question around his routine when there is a horribly rough night due to Day 1 of sleep training...
He finally went to bed around 10:30 and woke up at 5:30 am unwillingly to go to sleep. He has been doing 45-1.25 naps and sleeping 10-11.5 hours at night.
What do we do today in regard to nap and bedtime? What times should we aim for since he is on such little sleep. This is new territory for us since he’s never slept this little.
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Hi
I’d prob allow hour nap and earlier BT see if he tacks on. x
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What time should I give the nap?
He usually wakes up at 7:30 and naps around 1:30/2 pm
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For me at that age I’d stick to as close to normal x
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Ok he napped at 1 pm and slept for an hour. My husband is in the room with him since I believe 6:30 and he’s still awake 🙄
When does sleep training get better? Lol I know it’s only day 2 but sheesh!
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Lol bless you, just remember the older they are the more willpower they have!
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Haha!! It’s so true! We had to take out his teepee because he would just endlessly play in it.
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Hope he settles soon x
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Things were ok and now he’s crying just for me. We haven’t been letting him nap too long yet he’s still resisting bedtime.
He’s 34 months old now. Today he fell asleep early with the nanny because he had an awful night 11:30-8:30 am; napped from about 1:20-2:15pm
We put him down at 8:15 and it’s now 9:45 and he’s screaming crying for me. My husband is with him since we are doing gradual withdrawal.
I’m losing my mind! Is this normal? Is he just really overtired or something?
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Oh hugs hun it’s so exhausting isn’t it! What happens if you go in does he settle straight away?!
Could you try a really early bt see if he can catch up?
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Thank you...and yes we settled right away when I went in the other night.
Last night I wasn’t home and he did an ok job of getting to sleep but that was after not napping and having an 11.5 day. However, then he wakes up today after a short night 9.75!
Not sure if we put him down too early or too late ugh. Then he fights his nap crying hysterically for 45 minutes despite saying in the beginning he’s tired and want a nap. Ahhhhh I’m going crazy over his weird sleep.
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Can you just offer 20 min CN mid afternoon to see him though to BT, it might just keep ot at bay x
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Rather than no nap right?
Also if he naps for about an hour-1:15 and gets less than 10 hours at night that would indicate cutting his nap again right? Or is it I am putting him down too late for his nap then waking him then not putting him down for bedtime atthe right time then he’s just OT?
An example is yesterday, he did:
WU 7:20
S 2:30-3:45pm (cried hysterically in the car for over a half hour; woke up crying, OT?)
BT 8:50 pm
Up at 6:30 am with no nightwakings.
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20 mins got us with DS1 used to just get us to normal ish BT with no OT. We did get really short nights with a nap with DS1 before we dropped nap.
DS2 is 27 months and only has hour nap his day is WU 6.30-7 nap 2-3 BT 8pm as a comparison for you x
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That helps a lot!
I guess bc he’s starting to get cranky and tired earlier that I’m like ok he’s OT but then has short nights and wakes up after a short night ssaying he’s not tired.
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They can get in a bit of an ot/ut loop when it’s a transition in between nap stages.
How many months is he now?x
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He’s around 34 months now.
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I think you are getting to the age when that nap needs to go.
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No advice really but support as we are going through similar with our dd at almost 33 months. We’ve just this week cut the nap to 45 mins from an hour in the hope we can wean her down that way. We were having ew as opposed to delaying bedtime, although a longer nap would result in delayed by and ew!!! :o
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Yes!!! That’s happening now! I’m about to cut again because he’s taking forever to go to sleep then ew
In the last week it’s been 8.5-9.5 nights 😬
Last night he did 10.25 waking up at 7:30 am, napped from 2:20-3:30 and is currently STILL up. It’s almost 10 pm! No crying at all just up.
I’m thinking cutting it again to an hour tops. I have been very conservatively cutting 15 minutes at a time bc his nights are so erratic it’s hard to gage what’s working and what’s not.
If I do maybe:
WU 7:30
N 2:30-3:30 pm
BT 8:30 pm
Is that reasonable for an almost 3 year old?
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I think it’s reasonable but if nights remain short I’d just do 20 mins and earlier BT. With DS1 I had to get rid of nap as days went like yours, DS2 at 28 months has dropped his and now does 12 hour nights. Such a tricky phase x
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It really is! What’s trickier is that both my husband and I work so doing an earlier bedtime just doesn’t work for us. The earliest we ever managed was 7:30/7:45 pm.
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Yeah I know it’s hard when you work, a 12 hour day is often needed when naps go so you should be ok on 7.30 WU x
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Yea 7:30 is really pushing it but I figure we are hopefully a few weeks away from that then I will be able to be home earlier and aimfor the 7:30 bedtime.
He cried today for a half hour before finally falling asleep at about. 2:15. His wakeup was 7:15 after a 9.5 hour night.
He also woke up at a half hour and cried for 5 morning mutes then went back to sleep.
Is he super overtired? He’s been averaging 9.5-10.5 in a 24hr period for the last 4 days 😳😩
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Following on from my previous post, my LG decided to go cold turkey and drop her nap saying she was now a big girl 🤦♀️
We’ve had some ups and downs but generally pulling at least 11 hour night. One night we got 12.5!!!
She is super tired at bedtime and car journeys late in the day are not pleasant but we’ve pushed through the bad moods. When she had a 30 min car nap the other day she had a terrible night, very unsettled 🙄
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I’m guessing he’s 3 next month? They do have developmental leaps on or around birthdays and half birthdays so that can sometimes be a reason for night time disruption! Could just be time for that nap to go 😬
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I’m back 😪
Having a hard time with my now very overtired 3 year old (turning 3 this week). We were in the process of cutting down his nap to an hour and 15 consistently early this week. The problem is we didn’t know when to put him down fast enough since we both work (I work PT). On days I have off it’s much easier. It feels like he was always too wired for bed despite yawning during our bedtime routine. No matter the length of nap (even 30 minutes) he fights hard with bedtime, and still gets 9 hours of sleep. This has been happening for a little over a week. What should I do to catch him up?
My ideal EASY would be:
WU 7:30 am
S 1:45-3 pm
S 8:30 pm (asleep by)
Today he woke up at 6:45 after only 9 hours of sleep and a 45 minutes nap yesterday. I know he is overtired because his mood has been really short-fused and challenging.
SOS!!!!
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Hi do you think maybe the nap needs to go as it’s robbing from night sleep?
As I’ve mentioned before if it’s its around his birthday the developmental shenanigans could be causing some disturbances x
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It’s hard to say bc then some days he sleeps great with a nap and on no nap days he wakes up a lot from overtiredness.
I’m experimenting with one hour now. If I do one hour, when would be a good bedtime to shoot for?
WU 7:30
S 2-3 pm
BT ?
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I’d say 8.15/8.30 :)
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I’ll try this for a week. His birthday is Saturday so I’m hoping this sleep craziness wears off.
If not then I guess I will have to cut it down further.
It’s 9 pm and he’s still up 😟
Easy:
WU 7:10 am
Nap 1:35-2:40ish
Put him down at 8:05. Argh was it too late?
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Prob too early if he’s still messing about after nearly hour nap :-\
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😣 if that’s the case that means I’ll have to shave off more time.
My nanny said he napped from 1:40-250 but then he refused to get up and slept 10 more minutes. He was in a bad mood when he finally got up at 3 pm
He woke up at 7:30 and it is now 10 pm and he’s been up since we put him down at 9. I didn’t put him down earlier bc of the early and longer nap. Should this happen again, what do people usually do for bedtime?
This is just plain crazy!
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This sounds just like my DS1 and I basically had to get rid of nap....went to 20 mins max then no nap and 12 hour day.
Otherwise you keep the nap and accept late BT for a while.
It might all calm down after birthday shenanigans etc x
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I’m hoping for that....
I wouldn’t mind moving toward a nap cut but I don’t know how to move in that direction without being late on an appropriate bedtime. Earliest I get home from work is 7. My husband is 6 pm but always seems to have a hard time getting everything ready for a 7:30/8 pm. I feel like we are stuck.
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It is hard I just make sure kids evening meal is ready to just reheat then eat ours later if need be. Quick bath cuddles milk and stories, but I’m back at 5.15.
If you get a 7.30 WU then 7.30 BT is reasonable on say 20 min CN, you may only need to bring BT 15 mins earlier on no nap day.
It doesn’t last forever and they do get used to no nap x
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Ok! I can give it a whirl. This weekend was his birthday weekend today being the actuall day. His sleep is sooo horrible which is partly due to too much sugar and I guess the usual sleep issues
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Happy birthday little man hope he has a nice day x
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Thank you!!
I have a question as I’m moving towards eliminating the nap. If he naps (accidentally) around 45/50 minutes after an 8 hour A time (birthday party of a playmate) is it reasonable to put him down at the same bedtime to keep him at 13 hour day? He’s very crazily tossing and turning in his bed and it’s way past a 14 hour day. He’s overtired I guess.
A more general question. At 3 years old if he naps 45-1 hour at around 6.5/6.75A then when is a good time to aim for him to be asleep?
So for example:
WU 7:30
Nap 2-2:45/3 pm
BT ?
Would at his age, I aim for a 13 hour day?
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Hi, at this age A time i never went by A time so not sure.
As a comparison my DS2 is 29 months and is 95% no nap if he does nap we allow 20 min max and it doesn’t affect BT....he sleeps pretty much 7pm to 645/7.15am.
For us at that age with DS1 if he’d had an hour nap then his day always got 14 hours long sometimes longer.
They’re all different but at some point nap is more of a hinderance.
He’s probably over stimulated too..lots of exciting fun to process.
I think you may end up with longer day than 13 hours on a 45 min nap....just a case of experimenting with nap length and BT.x