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SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: gozde on March 23, 2018, 13:46:12 pm

Title: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 23, 2018, 13:46:12 pm
 Dear ladies
I have a boy he is six weeks old unfortunately his naps become thlrty five minutes it doesn't matter  he sleeps independently he wakes up between thlrty five minutes to forty five minutes. then he wakes up I tried to put him sleep again by slllst pat sometimes he can go  on sleeping but if he can't do this for 55 minutes I put him in my wrapped up swing ( should l put him in it or take hlm from the crib and start easy) and he goes on sleeping in addition to these he only sleeps more than 35 minutes in the Wrapped up swing.

His activity time is nearly 50 minutes if it is more he fights to me and can't sleep. But he always fighs to me for sleeping. This really makes me sad. He has a perfect nlght sleep :) he goes to bed between 8:30 - 9:00 ( we have a night rotine bath massage breastfeed and sleep ( he is differebt for night sleep he sucks his pacifier in his crib l waited if he throws it land can't sleep l give it back to him then he sleeps , sometimes he sleeps while breastfeeding and l put him his bed he goes on sleeping but sometimes he wakes up and l give pacifier and he sleeps. He gets up for feeding in the night between (2:30 - 3:30 ) then he gets up between 5:30 - 6:30 then sleeps. He do his pooh so l changed his diaper for two wakes up.

For this point, he wakes up between 8:00 - 8:30 l breastfeed in his room and put him jis crib he generally sleep for one hour sometimes he needs the pacifier. Is it okay or should l start the easy routine from this wakes up breastfeed activity sleep ?

This my secınd child the first one l taught him to sleep when he was 4 months old with the help of katie from this from :)

I am woried aboıt giving my little bad habits l need some help.

Our routine

8:30 at night sleep in his crib with paci.
2:30 nightfeed changed diaper night
3:10 sleep night
5:30 nightfeed changed diaper night
6:10 sleep in the mırning
8:30 wakes up changed diaper in his room breasfeed
9:10 sleep while breastfeeding but needs paci again
10:00 wakes up
10:40 breasfeed change diaper
10:50 go to room clıse the curtain say a lullaby in my arms swaddled siit pat on my chest then when his etes begin to close and open l put him in his bed and goes on siist pat one time l take him to my arms because he becomes so angry then he sleeps at 12:00
12:38 he wakes up ı siist pat till 1:15 then he sleeps and wakes up at 2:05
2:05 breastfeed
2:55 go to room for sleeping after his first yawning
4:00 not sleep and hiccup for 20 minutes after the hiccup finish l try to make him slerp in the crib but
I can't :(
4:05 l put him in the erappee up and he sleeps
5:10 he wakes up breastfeed change diaper
6:20 he sleeps in the pram l meed to take the first kid from the kindergarden
7:10 breastfeed
7:50 bath massage breastfeed
8:40 sleeps

I hope it is clear l hope some of you snswer my questions🙏🏼 ???
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 24, 2018, 19:31:36 pm
Hi ladies :)
I think this forum is a really treasure for me , l have been reading it continuesly. And after writting my topic here, something happened magically. I noticed that my little love doesn't like şiişt pat while he is quiet and today l did my routine then he becomes drowsy l put him his crib and give the pacifier hold his arm and legs gently. He sleeps in 15 minutes it is really magical for me. I have disturbed him by şiişt pat and l noticed again one of the thread it was written that when he needs " do şiişt pat" today is better then ever:)

He slept for his two naps in his bed in this style and one is 1.5 hour and the other one is 2:00 hours. But both of them l hold his arm in the 35 min. Till 50 minutes.the last two naps are one is in the oram the other is in wrapped-up sling.

For me it maked me feel better to writting here thanks to everybody for sharing their adventure :) about the activity time we finished 60 minutes then go to the room for the routine it seems it is okay.
I will keep writting :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on March 25, 2018, 02:36:42 am
What a great update :) So glad he's able to go to sleep a bit more happily now. Those sound like awesome naps :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 25, 2018, 11:42:46 am
Thanks for your answer:)
I will keep writting :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 26, 2018, 09:19:03 am
Hi again my little man is generally good at suush pat with sleeping, but we can't go on sleeping after 35 minutes by suush pat or hold gently to his arm. According to my reading in the forum he is so tiny so l try to keep sleeping any help which l can give. But first l tried our first way suush pat and hold the arms, l tried it before the 35 min. But generally it doesn't work. I switch on the very gentle vibration in his crib l open it and give his pacifier and he go on, after 10 min it switch off automatically and sometimes he keeps sleeping sometimes not. If it doesn't work too l wrapped up him in sling.

As a conclusion, because of his age my first aim is not to make him overtired and try to pay attention to his first sleeping by suush pat .

Do these sound reasonable ?

Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on March 27, 2018, 08:36:54 am
I think people get too worried about OT, a little short-term OT is not the end of the world - its fixed with a longer nap and is usually easily resettled. I wish someone had told me that when DS was young. Chronic OT from never napping long enough for months on end because we're keeping A times too short so LO doesn't get OT for the next nap - that's a more tricky problem to solve.

Its absolutely reasonable to help him sleep longer if you can but don't spend an hour in a dark room trying to get an awake baby back to sleep. Its not good for either of you.

If he was sleeping longer naps and they've now shortened, its worth trying an extra 5mins of A time and seeing if that makes a difference. Babies at this age are a bit tricky in that some have 'woken up' from that sleepy newborn phase and some haven't, so A time can vary from 45mins to 1.5hr but by 13 weeks/3 months, its pretty consistent to be up for 1.5hr before a nap.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 27, 2018, 13:11:00 pm
Thanks for your concern:)

I am relaxed now because of your writting (you found my way reasonable) , about A time it doesn't change anything he always wakes up 30s minutes . Because he can't go on the other circle of sleeping, l think but it is a process he will learn it. But until this time my way of making him sleep is okay for us.

One more question , should l do a dreamfeed l don't do it. He sleeps between 8:30 -9:30 at night. And he breasfeed at 03:00-04:00 at night then 7:00 breastfeed ( he generally do his toilet a lot so l changed his diaper and put him bed ) he wakes up at 08:00.

Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on March 27, 2018, 21:11:28 pm
He sleeps between 8:30 -9:30 at night. And he breasfeed at 03:00-04:00 at night then 7:00 breastfeed ( he generally do his toilet a lot so l changed his diaper and put him bed ) he wakes up at 08:00.
Sounds like a pretty good night without it to me. I didn't do the DF because I went to bed early in the night and would have to stay up or wake up to do it and it wasn't going to benefit me. If you are someone who goes to bed at 11:30/midnight (3-4hr after LO goes to sleep for the night), a DF is potentially worth it but if you're getting a night like that at the moment, I'd leave well enough alone and keep doing what you're doing.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 29, 2018, 19:07:16 pm
Hi ,

I want to share our easy and I would like you to comment it (about activity time or something wrong ı do ?)

28 March
from the noon (l start writting from this time)
...........
12:38 get up breastfeed
1:45 activity
2:00 suush pat
2:15 he goes to sleep very easy by himself in the crib I put him he is drowsy)
2:46 I hold him firmly and give his pacifier but doesn't work so l switch on the vibration of the bed with pacifier
3:05 he sleeps again
4:05 get up
5:00 breastfeed and activity
5:25 he sleeps in the wrapped up
6:40 l wake him up breastfeed
7:50 bath time
8:10 breastfeed
8:20 sleeps with pacifier (but he is really drowsy after feeding)
8:50 wake up l give pacifier and turn him other side he sleeps again
in the night time
02:20 wake up breastfeed-
03:00 sleep
05:20 wake up (ı changed his diaper he do his toilet a lot ) breastfeed
06:15 sleeps

29 of March

in the morning
8:20 wake up breastfeed activity
09:30 go to the room
09:40 sleep sushi pat then in the crib with pacifier very easily
10:02 I turn him other side ı read it in the book maybe he can go on slleping without waking up but 3 minutes later he wakesup :) l switch on the vibration and pacifier
10:13 sleeps again
11:10 wake up breastfeed activity
11:50 l take him to his room because he yawns a lot I do winddown short time ı think he is really tired but can't sllep in the crib and can't settle by suush pat
12:30 I put him in the wrapped up sling he sleeps
12:40 I put him in the crib with the sling I put pillows and towels around him he can't move
1:22 he wakes up I take him and rock him
1:45 sleep again (after 5 min he take out his one arm near him and go on sleeping so I wonder if he can sleep on his tummy and his arm out )
2:38 wakes up breastfeed activity
3:45 go to the room
4:05 l put him in the crib he is not drowsy I put him on his tummy and his arms are out I try to make him sleep for 15 min. but I can't
4:20 I put him in the wrapped up sling he sleeps
4:30 put him in the crib his hands are out but his body in the sling
5:03 he wakes up can't sleep I don't try
5:12 l take him breastfeed
5:45 I wrapped up sleep
6:50 I wake him up breastfeed
7:45 bath time breastfeed
8:15 l put him in the crip with pacifier but can't sleep and cry
8:40 l breastfeed again
8:50 I put him bed l give his pacifier he throw it for three times then sleeps and not wakes up again
in the night
................(it is 10:00 qclock now so ı don't know what is coming :)

According to the easy what isyour opinion about activity time I think I can't find it because when it is right time it is really easy for me to make him sleep.

He always wakes up 30s minutes no matter about the activity time or how he sleeps this means that it is developmental he will learn it in time and l can only help him to sleep more ?

In the book there some ways to make the babies go on sleeping by giving them their pacifier or turning them in the crib so they can start a new cycle of sleeping . But these are for the night I try them for naps but they don't work is it because they are naps or because my little man is too small? Or should I continue trying them or anything else?

I am really looking forward to having your answers :)

Thanks for your patience and concern :)











Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 29, 2018, 19:25:12 pm
One more question :)
 
My little man came to our world when he was 41 weeks 5 days he is a bit late according to his due date. Does this change anything about activity time or anything else he is 4.600 grams . I asked all the question in my brain . I am really happy you are there . This makes me feel relaxed.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on March 30, 2018, 03:32:05 am
12:38 get up breastfeed1:45 activity2:00 suush pat 2:15 he goes to sleep very easy by himself in the crib I put him he is drowsy)2:46 I hold him firmly and give his pacifier but doesn't work so l switch on the vibration of the bed with pacifier 3:05 he sleeps again4:05 get up
So here, he was probably a little overtired with 1:35 A time - that's a lot for a 7 week old baby, but he copes pretty well with it by the looks. Its good to persist in resettling him and you can see he finished off the nap well.

5:25 he sleeps in the wrapped up 6:40 l wake him up breastfeed
Here, his A time was 1:20 and he didn't wake at 30min from OT or at 40-45min from UT and we know he *can* sleep an extended nap on his own. I'd probably aim for ~1:20 A times for him and see how he goes in the coming days-weeks.

6:40 l wake him up breastfeed7:50 bath time8:10 breastfeed8:20 sleeps with pacifier (but he is really drowsy after feeding)8:50 wake up l give pacifier and turn him other side he sleeps againin the night time
Here again, 1:40 A time and a 30min OT waking which was easily resettled and then he slept really well during the night. Those couple of night wakings for feeds are perfectly normal.

8:20 wake up breastfeed activity 09:30 go to the room 09:40 sleep sushi pat then in the crib with pacifier very easily10:02 I turn him other side ı read it in the book maybe he can go on slleping without waking up but 3 minutes later he wakesup  l switch on the vibration and pacifier 10:13 sleeps again11:10 wake up breastfeed activity
He fell asleep easily here after 1:20 A time again and with the resettle, he's essentially had a full nap of 1.5hr. Not sure about the waking, could have been you rolling him.

11:10 wake up breastfeed activity11:50 l take him to his room because he yawns a lot I do winddown short time ı think he is really tired but can't sllep in the crib and can't settle by suush pat 12:30 I put him in the wrapped up sling he sleeps12:40 I put him in the crib with the sling I put pillows and towels around him he can't move 1:22 he wakes up I take him and rock him
Again, going off to sleep at 1:20 A time and perhaps a touch undertired or maybe something else woke him.

Overall, I think if you aim for 1:20 A time, that should suit him pretty well. Try to keep your wind down short (5 mins, not 20mins)and consistent - these are the cues you're giving him that its nap time.  He certainly wakes after 20-30mins reasonably often, but not always and I think you might see more long uninterrupted naps if you can be a bit more consistent with the A time and the shorter WD.

In the book there some ways to make the babies go on sleeping by giving them their pacifier or turning them in the crib so they can start a new cycle of sleeping . But these are for the night I try them for naps but they don't work is it because they are naps or because my little man is too small? Or should I continue trying them or anything else?
Essentially, you've done wake to sleep I think from your description. I would think hold through the jolts might be more useful for you at this stage (just sit by him at those moments he may wake and be ready to hold a hand on him or hold his arms and legs still so he doesn't wake himself.

My little man came to our world when he was 41 weeks 5 days he is a bit late according to his due date. Does this change anything about activity time or anything else he is 4.600 grams
Not really :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 30, 2018, 07:01:52 am
I am really happy to have your answer while having the new day :) thanks so muchh. You wrote he  doesn't wake up at 30 min Always .But If he sleeps in his crib or the pram he always but if he is wrapped up sling and on my body he doesn't wake up even inthis position he can wake up too :)
 Hence, l would like to ask the same question again ,
He always wakes up 30s minutes no matter about the activity time or how he sleeps this means that it is developmental he will learn it in time and l can only help him to sleep more ? But in the process he will get this ability and by helping him for indepentdenly sleeping this process can be easier for both of us ?
Thanks for your quick answer :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on March 31, 2018, 18:15:08 pm
Hi again:)
I would like to ask a question. To make him sleep for the night becoming more diffucult, l think because of me , for the naps we have winddown then suush pat then pacifier . But at night sleeping after bath time breastfeeding he really becomes drowsy l put him in his crib and give pacifier it is generally takes max. 20 min. He throws the pacifier and go on sleeping. For three days he can't sleep easily it takes 1 hour he sucks his pacifier and throw a olt of time but can't go on. Can he differentiate the night sleeping and nap sleeping style ? If so , maybe nowadays he   İs a bit tired for the night or something else. But if he is confused about sleeping style l should stick to the same style. What is your opinion ?

Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on April 01, 2018, 06:39:51 am
You wrote he  doesn't wake up at 30 min Always .But If he sleeps in his crib or the pram he always
I see he's not sleeping 1.5hr naps in the crib but he is sleeping longer than 20-30min naps, in there:

12:30 I put him in the wrapped up sling he sleeps12:40 I put him in the crib with the sling I put pillows and towels around him he can't move 1:22 he wakes up I take him and rock him
He's waking here after 50min sleep (40 min in the crib). I'm running on this being an UT nap.

4:20 I put him in the wrapped up sling he sleeps4:30 put him in the crib his hands are out but his body in the sling 5:03 he wakes up can't sleep I don't try
Here again, 40min sleep, 30min in the crib. Again, possibly an UT nap given the length.

He always wakes up 30s minutes no matter about the activity time or how he sleeps this means that it is developmental he will learn it in time and l can only help him to sleep more ? But in the process he will get this ability and by helping him for indepentdenly sleeping this process can be easier for both of us ?
In part, you are correct - he needs you to help him keep learning how to relax into sleep and how to transition from one sleep cycle to the next.

 
To make him sleep for the night becoming more diffucult, l think because of me , for the naps we have winddown then suush pat then pacifier . But at night sleeping after bath time breastfeeding he really becomes drowsy l put him in his crib and give pacifier it is generally takes max. 20 min. He throws the pacifier and go on sleeping. For three days he can't sleep easily it takes 1 hour he sucks his pacifier and throw a olt of time but can't go on. Can he differentiate the night sleeping and nap sleeping style ? If so , maybe nowadays he   İs a bit tired for the night or something else. But if he is confused about sleeping style l should stick to the same style. What is your opinion ?
My thought here is that yes, night is different from naps - babies get used to that eventually. I do think, though that your A time to bedtime is probably a touch too long and he's probably overtired for a couple of reasons:
1. You're waking him from his last nap, so it is short and he didn't wake on his own.
2. Following this short nap from which he has been woken, you're doing a relatively long A time (1:40 28/3/18 and 1:25 29/3/18) that is quite busy (2 x feeds + a bath) so it could also be overstimulating.

Would you try a bath in another A time just to see if that makes a difference for BT?
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on April 06, 2018, 12:44:18 pm
I will write but we have some health problems about the high level of alt/ast enyzm in liver .l am dealing with it. I hope we will have good news🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on April 06, 2018, 23:32:27 pm
Hugs, hope that all works out alright for you.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on April 10, 2018, 14:54:33 pm
Hi again it seems okay about the ast/alt level :) the doctor says we will check it in time but now it is okay , thanks to god 🙏🏼. About the naps the doctor says again my little has a reflux and l put some towel under his bed and what happened he slept more than an hour yesterday and today too :) he has some movement and voices at the  30minutes but he can continue sleeping l hope it will go on🙏🏼 At the same time he sleeps with the wehite noise and l use it high volume l think it affects too. Because while l am trying to soothe him accidentally l open the voice high and he stop crying and stare his eyes and suck his pacifier then sleeps.
About the activity time ,
I read in the forum eyes open and etes shot time all is activity time for the baby. We have 1 hour and 25 - 35 minutes . This works too. I hope he will go on like this.

One more thing,
Yesterday l try df and it was awful because he suck 2-3 minutes then nearly he woke up when l put him his bed he could'nt go on sleeping l helped him and it was the first time. After this try he woke up 2 hours kater for feeding and he had a poo so it is not necessary to give him a df. He knows when to feed :)
He has generally two breastfeed whole night so it is okay.

Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on April 11, 2018, 00:18:40 am
Sounds like things are improving, that's great :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on April 13, 2018, 06:01:52 am
Hi , for two nights things changed:( my dream night flies from the window . Is it because of his weeks or does this happen sometimes? I am really worried about it because night becomes nightmare for me:(
He is 8 weeks yesterday. ( his birthday is 15 th of February ) l am sending our easy and naps are getting worse again yesterday too:(


He slept at 07:40
At nlght
00:20 l delayed it till 02:00 with pacifier
02:00 breastfeed - 03:00
05:40breastfeed bumped a lot with poo
06:55 sleep with vibration in the crib

Following day

08:16 woke up
08:55 we went to the room
09:38 sleep
10:06 woke up can't settle , wrapped up in sling
11:10 put on the crip
11:38 woke up
12:30 we were in the room
13:02 sleep in the crip only ı şiiş no pacifier
13:39 music stopped and begin again
13:51 woke up cant settle
14:05 sleep in the sling
15:00 put in the crib
15:05 woke up
16:30 sleep in sling
17:10 woke up breastfed bath massage breastfed
7:50 sleep ( it takes nearly 40 min.)
00:50-01:50 woke up
3:30 woke up sleep with pacifier
4:46  woke up sleep with pacifier
5:20 breastfeed bumped several tlmes with poo
6:30 sleep
7:30 woke up with a scream breastfeed
07:35 sleep
08:35 woke up

Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on April 13, 2018, 11:56:03 am
I will write one more easy routine too today routine so please wait for my reply for answering it :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on April 13, 2018, 22:38:08 pm
I know you said to wait, not sure when I'll get on the forum again as it will be a busy weekend for me.

Its a pretty typical age for a growth spurt and I think given he's not settling for hours when he wakes in the night and given at his age 3NFs is absolutely normal, I'd just feed when he wakes and get him and you back to sleep. Just muddle through the days with extra feeds if necessary and sling naps if that's all he'll take for now. You cannot spoil a baby by cuddling him. There is plenty of time for independent sleeping and honestly, with the number of growth spurts and wonder weeks in the first few months, you won't have anything consistent for more than a week or two anyway.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on April 18, 2018, 08:57:53 am
Hi again thank you for your reply you are right again :) our nights are okay now two feed generally no df . But our naps are always and always 30 min. Not longer than 37 min.
I try
Htjj from the 20 min until he settles but no success.
Try to suush pat no success
Switch on the vibration and give his pacifier when he moves and gives voices no success
And l try to give chance to him for turning back to his sleep.
Only he can go on sleeping wlth sling:)
So l try all the way in order for the naps but we finished with slling but you said it doesn't matter so l feel more relaxed about using it.
He can sleep independently in his bed.l say llulaby than suushh when he is drowsy l put him his bed l generally hold his arm and suush for a while sometimes with pacifier and he sleeps:)
I think the importan point here he is learning independently sleeping and he will learn go on sleeping in time.
I will post our easy .
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on April 18, 2018, 11:24:45 am
17 April
07:45 he woke up breastfeed then sleep
08:50 woke up feeding activity
10:18 w.d
10:30 sleep with pacifier in his bed
11:00 he throw his pacifier
11:07 small voices
11:25 a scream suddenly
11:30 sleep in the sling :)
12:10 put him in his bed.
12:20 woke up breastfeed activity
13:35 started w.d
14:00 sleep
14:30 woke up try to settle in the bed with pacifier and vibration suush
14:56 sleep in the sling
15:40 put in the bed
16:08 woke up feed activity
17:30 sleep in the sling
18:35 woke up feeding bath massage feeding
08:35 sleep
At night
01:10 -2:00 feeding
05:20-6:10 feeding he did his poo
07:10 woke up with poo and bumped a ot the breastfeed a bit
07;45 sleep
New day
18 April
08:35 woke up he is happy :) with poo he woke up feeding
9;55 w.d
10:15 sleep
10:40 started to hold his leg and arm
10:45 he started to move hold him no success give pacifier and switch on vibration no success but he sleeps then woke up l give pacifier again he throw it in this way it goes on till11:20 l think he sleeps then go out the room one minute later he woke up
11:47 l put him in his bed
12:17 he woke up feeding activity
01:5... sleep with his pacifier
2:04 he throw his pacifier
2:45 make a scream and woke up try to settle him suush give his pacifier and switch on vibration no success
3:05 sleep in the sling
3:46woke up feeding activity
5:10sleep in the sling
6:30wake up feeding bath massage feeding
8:00 sleep
We are here now :)
Waiting for your reply thanks for everything:)
I wonder about your comment do l do something wrong for his naps ?
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on April 19, 2018, 08:35:53 am
He doesn't strike me as drastically over or undertired in either of those days you have posted. Given he's still less than 3 months old, I would probably try to have him asleep by 1:30 A time by starting a short WD of ~5mins around 1:25 A time. Sometimes very long wind downs are too much you get a lot of fighting against naps.

Whilst he is waking, your days don't seem all that unusual for a young baby.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on April 19, 2018, 09:05:08 am
From your answer l get that this is because of his age and there is not much thing l can do. About a time l will try 1:30 min. So we will wait fır growing up and try to enjoy these tine :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on April 20, 2018, 06:03:05 am
Sounds like a great plan :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on April 22, 2018, 10:03:57 am
Hi ,
If my Lo wakes up at 30  min or 45 min and then l make him sleep again how many minutes sholud l cut for the activity ? ( or it depends howlong he sleeps in the second sleeping( which l helped him)
If my lo wakes up 30 min or 45 min and can't settle howmany min later should I sleep him again ?
And for these ages, l do my activity 1 hour 25 min.-35 min sometimes he wakes up at 45 min this means he is udertired or he learns to jump the first cycle of the sleep (34 min. ) and can't go on the second cycle ? After his 45 min sleeping He can go on sleeping in the sling then l put him in his bed.
 He is 9 weeks 3 days old :)
21 April
08:40 woke up activity
10:15 sleep
12:05 woke up activity
1:15 wd
1:35 sleep
2:10 voices coming
2:15 wokeup
2:20 sleep in the sling
3:30 woke up activity
5:00 sleep in the sling
6:37 woke up activity bath massage
8:05 sleep
02:05 - 02:35 breastfeed
4:45 -5:30 breastfeed change diaper
07:30 breastfeed sleep

22 April
08:20 woke up activity
09:35 sleep
10:36 woke up
10:40 sleep in the sling:)
11:00 put his bed
11:15 woke up in his bed activity
12:35 sleep
13:22 woke up
1:30 sleep in the sling
2:05 put his bed
2:10 woke up
3:35 sleep
4:13 woke up
4: 20 sleep in the sling :)
5: 10 put his bed.
6:20 woke up inthe bed , activity feed bath massage feed
08:05 sleep :)
At night
11:23-12:10 woke up too early for our routine is it because the last nap is too long ? Does it affect the night?
02:00 02:30 breastfeed
5:20-5:50 breastfeed change diaper a lo gases
6:20 finally he sleeps he has gases  l think
07:00 woke up a little breastfeed
08:10 woke up

Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on April 24, 2018, 07:36:28 am
If my Lo wakes up at 30  min or 45 min and then l make him sleep again how many minutes sholud l cut for the activity ? ( or it depends howlong he sleeps in the second sleeping( which l helped him)
Look at the total amount of sleep (including the resettling time) and if that's a reasonable nap length, don't reduce the next A time at all.

If my lo wakes up 30 min or 45 min and can't settle howmany min later should I sleep him again ?
In this case, you can reduce the next A time by ~15mins. Its different for different babies but this is a starting point for you to get to know your baby and tweak from there.

And for these ages, l do my activity 1 hour 25 min.-35 min sometimes he wakes up at 45 min this means he is udertired or he learns to jump the first cycle of the sleep (34 min. ) and can't go on the second cycle ?
Yes, and at this age unless he sleeps full naps on his own, we presume its developmental and he's learning to connect sleep cycles than that he's UT given you're doing a reasonable A time. If he's sleeping full naps on his own, though, you can assume UT.

21 April 08:40 woke up activity 10:15 sleep12:05 woke up activity
Here, he sleeps a 1:50 nap off 1:35 A time.

Here:
12:05 woke up activity 1:15 wd 1:35 sleep2:10 voices coming 2:15 wokeup

and here:
08:20 woke up activity 09:35 sleep10:36 woke up
he slept shorter naps off shorter A times. If you can keep them consistently at 1:30-1:35, you will likely spend less time resettling him.

08:05 sleep At night 11:23-12:10 woke up too early for our routine is it because the last nap is too long ? Does it affect the night?
There are lots of reasons for a LO to wake for a feed a little earlier than usual. Your night is well within the range of normal for this age. It could be a growth spurt. He's gone 3hr or more without a feed, so just feed, burp and get back to bed so you both can get more sleep :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 01, 2018, 13:41:54 pm
Hi again :)
Our nights are okay again :) two feeding at night. But still shirt naps 30min- 45 min it changes. Once a week he can gon on sleeping without a help. I try 1 hour 20-35 min activities . He is nearly 11 weeks l wonder that after 12 weeks they get habits ?? So l don't want to teach wrong things. For naps he sleeps in his crib by suush pat but when he wakes up early and it is nearly always l make him sleep again in sling then put his crib and open some vibration he goes on sleeping generally. After 12 weeks for the second sleeping should l apply to sling or not ??
Thanks for your comments and patient 🙏🏼
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on May 01, 2018, 21:28:37 pm
It is quite reasonable to try to resettle him with shush/pat - just the same method you used to get him to sleep at the beginning of his nap to help him learn to resettle himself. It can certainly still be developmental at this age but most babies are starting to be more able to connect sleep cycles as he is doing occasionally.

I think I'd aim for 1:30 A times consistently, 1:20 is probably a little short at this point.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 02, 2018, 07:45:04 am
Thank you :)
One more question he is 11 weeks now and l make him sleep suus pat but l do it till he sleeps and it takes time sometimes 20 min or more to make him sleep. For example today he wake up 8:45 l start wd 9:40 and he sleeps 10:20 (but he wakes up 11:35 ??? How this is possible he has 1 hour 55 min activity nearly and he sleeps 1 hour 15 min this means he needs more activity than 1 hour 30 min ? What do you think ? And between 12weeks to 16 weeks hıw many min should he have activity tüme ? Howoften should l add time to activity ? I think l have a problem about finding suitable activity time too :(  )
so it takes too long to make him sleep so if he wakes up after 40 min should l try to sleep him again or feed him then go on ??
And another option he wakes up 30 min l try to sleep him again for 30 min but l can't l should count the activşty tüme from he wakes up ? And cut 15 min from normal activity tüme ?
when sould l reduce suush pat it it early for his age or not ? Howlong later should l reduce suush pat after he learns to sleep in this method? I am not so strict about it but now l only use it.
And l will stop using sling for make him sleep for the second sleeping he becomes 3 months ? Is it okay or should l stop it now ?
Another option , for two days l try to settle him by suush pat for the early waking but no success this makes me upset . He ha 3 naps one cat nap . If l cant settle him and he sleeps two 30 min naps can l settle him in the sling for the third nap if he wakes up again ? This makes him confused or is it okay ?
I am so worried about doing something wrong because l am really afraid to spoil my night .
Last ;) when can we say that early wakings are not developmental ?

Today is until now it is perfect :)
07:55 woke up activity
09:25-30 sleep
10:20 Woke up
10:25 sleep in the sling
10:45 put in the crib
10:55 woke up activity
12:30-35 sleep
2:00 woke up
3:40 sleep
5:20 woke up activity
6:40 sleep in the sling
7:15 woke up feeding bath massage he didnt want to feed again
8:35 sleep
At night
1:45 feeding
5:45 feeding
7:30 woke up but not ready for the day l feed him for 7 min he sleeps again( is it a problem shouldn't l breastfeed him ? This is always like this )
8:30 woke up happily

Wonder about the night :)


I am really happy he will learn it and l hope it will go on like this :)
I am really looking forward to having your e mail
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on May 06, 2018, 08:03:35 am
For example today he wake up 8:45 l start wd 9:40 and he sleeps 10:20 (but he wakes up 11:35  How this is possible he has 1 hour 55 min activity nearly and he sleeps 1 hour 15 min this means he needs more activity than 1 hour 30 min ?
Well, a significant amount of that 1:25 was being settled to sleep, so maybe more like 1:20 or 1:30 A time but all A time, not 40mins of going to sleep.

And between 12weeks to 16 weeks hıw many min should he have activity tüme ? Howoften should l add time to activity ? I think l have a problem about finding suitable activity time too
So from 3 mo to 4mo, there's an increase in average A time from 1:30 to 2hr, so you can just add 15mins each fortnight or so.

o it takes too long to make him sleep so if he wakes up after 40 min should l try to sleep him again or feed him then go on ??
I would just feed and get on with things rather than trying to resettle. WD only need be ~2-3mins, 5mins maximum of cues to tell LO its time for sleep. It doesn't need to be a huge long thing or you'll get massive fights against sleep.

I think reducing the shush/pat will be much easier if you fill the A time with activity and keep the wind down to a very short process that is consistent for each nap.

And l will stop using sling for make him sleep for the second sleeping he becomes 3 months ? Is it okay or should l stop it now ?
Either of these is fine, it doesn't matter a great deal. Just be ready to be consistent with your change when you make it.

8:35 sleep At night 1:45 feeding 5:45 feeding 7:30 woke up but not ready for the day l feed him for 7 min he sleeps again( is it a problem shouldn't l breastfeed him ? This is always like this ) 8:30 woke up happily
This is a pretty good night. No big issue with feeding when he wakes at 7:30 am, that's fine :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 08, 2018, 04:56:42 am
Thanks for your answers , when can we say early wakings are not devrlopmental ?
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on May 08, 2018, 06:38:13 am
You mean short naps of ~40mins? About 5 months or earlier i he does go through the transition on their own sometimes and not others, its more likely to be UT when they don't.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 08, 2018, 07:48:47 am
Yes for 40 min wakes so it is nearly 5 months thanks
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 16, 2018, 17:36:50 pm
Hi ,
We are 12+6 today. It is amazing the time is flying. I have checked my easy notes we generally have one long nap everyday. Sometimes there is no help sometimes l do wake to sleep. We have a full 1 hour 30 min activity generally it works. I say a lullaby ın my arms then put his bed give his paci hold from his back firmly and he sleeps. But today it is awful l couldnt sleep him for nearly 40 min. And finally l sleep him in my arms. This can happen too ??
I want to say him have a good sleep and leave the room and he sleeps( without crying). So l try to reduce helping him gradually . Do you suggest anything ? How can l manage it ? And when should l do this?
Today easy
At night
1:30-2:10 breastfeed
4:30-5:10breastfeed
In the morning
7:50 wake up
9:25 sleep
9:45 turn him in the bed
10:45 wake up
12:10 wd and try to sleep but cant
12:45 he sleep finally
1:05I turn him in his bed
1:10 wake up l sleep him in my arms
1:20 put him in his bed
2:25 wake up
3:45 wd and try to sleep but cant
4:30 sleep in my arms
5:25 wake up
6:20 sleep in sling
6:50 wake up
8:10 sleep
At night
12:40-1:15 bf
6:00-6:20 bf
7:30 wake up start the day
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on May 19, 2018, 12:43:59 pm
Here:
12:10 wd and try to sleep but cant12:45 he sleep finally
and here:
2:25 wake up 3:45 wd and try to sleep but cant
Both times, a little under the 1:30 A time when you did the WD and that can be enough to have him fight the nap whilst undertired then miss the window.

Having said that, the day is looking pretty good actually, plenty of mums would be delighted with a day like that, I certainly would have been when DS was not quite 3mo.

I want to say him have a good sleep and leave the room and he sleeps( without crying). So l try to reduce helping him gradually .
This is exactly what we suggest - gradually reduce your assistance - lighter touch, slower patting initially, then none, just stand there, then the next step is to leave the room when he's settled but not quite asleep and so on until you put him down and go again. There's nothing to say you shouldn't start reducing your assistance now, you're there and know him best so if you think he can do it, give it a go.


Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 19, 2018, 13:41:42 pm
It becomes really difficult to make him sleep :( he cries a lot for 4 days, it was going well l say lullaby put his bed put my hand to his back and he goes to dlerp but now he really fights to me you think because of the a time but it is really difficult to adapt it when he sleeps short.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on May 20, 2018, 02:39:50 am
Growth spurt? Is he wanting to eat? 3 months is a pretty normal time for a GS.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 20, 2018, 14:04:38 pm
Yes l think so :) he eats a lot too. Today it is awful he cries a lot for the nap and l cant settle him. He slept in my arms finally. I am worried that it can be a habit. I try hard really to settle him in the bed with suush pat but not work sometimes generally for his last nap before catnap . I think he is tired for the day so l give less a time. I hope it is temporary.
I was thinking to reduce the suush pat but now it doesnt work :( l am really disappointed today :((
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on May 21, 2018, 00:26:08 am
I would probably add in a topup feed somewhere to make sure he's not hungry and see if that helps. If he's still fighting naps, he might be undertired(and swiftly become overtired whilst fighting the nap) in which case you can try adding a bit more A time.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 22, 2018, 10:24:51 am
You are right about a time l try 1 hour 40 min and he doesn't fight for the nap but l have him in my arms a bit longer for the lullaby maybe two-three more min. He wakes up 40s min. I managed to settle him in my arms and sleeps in my arm. Then put his bed . So yes he has a GS and yes it is better to add some a time . Now we are 13 weeks 5 days :)
Thanks for your help
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on May 26, 2018, 22:40:17 pm
Great, glad that helped. Keep in mind that A time keeps increasing on average by 15mins every fortnight until 6 months then it sometimes slows down a bit, so lots of little increases when you see these signs with his sleep will hopefully keep you out of big trouble with A times :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on May 29, 2018, 19:07:55 pm
Hi again :)
He is 15 weeks old. He is stiil in the swaddle and my city is hot and l have to take him out from the swaddle at most in two weeks. I bought sia sleeping suit for him his legs will be in it his arms will be outside. I can't manage to reduce the assistance , two days it şs really good but then it comes again where l started:) so l think it will be better to do it when he is out of the swaddle. Our naps are generally short 40 min. But sometimes he sleeps a long nap. I hope he is learning. Generally hşs first nap islong but then the other becomes short. l extend his naps in my arms he sleeps again then put his crib and fix my hamd to his back for awhile then leave the room,

but for two days he woke up when l take my hand from his back:( maybe l hold my hand too long then he wants it for all his sleep ??
 I am sending our one day and again the first nap is perfect then the others are short and l wonder ypur comment about your naps and night sleeping?
The last thing, do we have an average of nf for the months ?
Our nights were really better and he started waking up really early why do you think ?
He is a bit fighting m for his bt for three days why do you think so ? Because of his last nap time ? Howlong later should he go to bed after his last nap ?

28 may
07:40 sleep
10:00-10:20 df
02:20-02:40 bf
05;45 bf but he cant go on sleeping
New day
06:25 wake up start the day
08:15 sleep
09;45 wake up
11:25 sleep
12:12 wake up
12:35 make him sleep then go out
12:40 wake up
2:30 sleep
03:08 wake up
03:30 l make him sleep in his bed go out but two min later he wake up
05:04 sleep in the sling
05:40 wake up
7:50 bt it really takes time to male him sleep
Night is the best ( there is no poo so he can sleep until 7 )
01:00-01:30 bf
04:30-05:00 bf
29may my best dayyy
07:15 start the day :)
09:00 sleep
10:25 wake up
12:05-8 sleep
1:45 wake up
3:20-25 sleep
4:20 wake up
5:40 sleep in the sling
6:15 ıwake up
7:45 sleep



Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on May 31, 2018, 08:14:18 am
Overall, your nights are pretty good. At 4 months, I would expect to see a DF and 2 other NFs - very normal. I think some of your naps are a tad short and it looks like those are happening after slightly shorter A times, eg.
09;45 wake up 11:25 sleep12:12 wake up
A time here was 10mins shorter than the first one after a solid nap - probably just UT.

He's getting close to 4mo where A time of 2hr is pretty standard, so keeping A times close to 1:50 to 2hr is a good plan for you.

Whilst your naps are a little different each day, you're doing well. Many people can only dream of a day like those you're having.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on June 06, 2018, 10:50:17 am
Hi again ,
He will be 16 weeks tomorrow. We have 1:55 or 2:00 activity. He sometimes can pass the 30 and 40 min.and sometimes he can go through the cycles own his own but he wakes up 1 hour 10 min later.And he seems sleepy even l can make him sleep again with suuus pat in the crib. So this is an another cycle ?
My city is really hot and ı have to take him out from the swaddle .but how ? Do we have any strategy for it ?
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on June 08, 2018, 09:37:03 am
You can wean the swaddle in a few ways: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=251444.0

When DS was swaddled in the summer here (>40 degrees, often), I just had him in a nappy only and used a light muslin fabric to swaddle.

Is he waking after 1:10 total nap time? If so, you could probably increase his A time just a touch - 5-10mins.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on June 19, 2018, 18:39:43 pm
Hi again ,
He started sleeping with his sleeping bag it is very very thin. He is 18 weeks old and he began to roll so he sleeps then try to roll and wake up. I try to make him sleep on his tummy but he doesn't like it so l put towel to his back. Naps are sometimes long sometimes short.
Questions:

1 Do you have any suggestion for a new rolling baby sleeping ?
2 after stop using swaddle it takes longer to make him sleep, l say a lullaby then put the crip give his sleeping toy. Then wait in the room, he screams manytra crying and trying to rolling and when managed to roll on his tummy he becomes angry and star a real crying. I put him on his side and do sussh pat but l try to stop when he stop crying because l want to teach him to sleep by his own. But he started crying again do l star and stop patting he started crying and stopper crying . Do we have a time for example after two weeks we should go out and wait outside the room and give time for crying then go in and speaking then go out ? Do you have any suggestion about it ?
3 we have got 1:55 - 2 hour activity he is 18 weeks old. He has three naps and one catnap but his last nap is always short it is 35- 45 min and l cant extend it :( why do you think ?

Our one day easy
07:20 wake up
09:05 Put in the crib after the wd
09:25 he spoke a lot when he started crying l pat and suush then slept
10:45 wake up
12:40sleep
1:40 wake up
3:35 sleep
4:15 wake up :( try to make him sleep he sleeps but wake in a minute for two times
5:40 sleep in the sling
6:15 wake up
8:05 sleep in 20 min no touching:))
Night
10:30 df
3:30 bf
7:00 wake up
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on June 22, 2018, 04:07:38 am
1 Do you have any suggestion for a new rolling baby sleeping ?
This is a tricky phase because he's just learned a new skill. He will master it soon and his sleep will be less disrupted. Sometimes you just have to muddle through for a week or so until he's really worked it out.

At 18 weeks, average A time is 2-2:10hr, so if you keep him up a bit longer, he make go to sleep more quickly and sleep longer again. This:
07:20 wake up09:05 Put in the crib after the wd
is not 1:55-2hr A time. It is 1:45 and he fell asleep at 2:05 A time so if you can put him down closer to nap time, you will get less protests pre-sleep.

12:40sleep 1:40 wake up
This nap is 1hr long - better than 30-40mins but still a touch undertired.

I think overall based on what you've written, an A time of 2hr minimum, potentially 2:10-2:15 will be what he needs at the moment. I would also keep in mind that A time increases by about 15mins every fortnight for the next 2-3 months of his life, so you have to keep increasing as he grows.

His day length is perfect. I suspect you'll be down to 3 naps in the day soon, as you increase his A times and his naps get longer again.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on June 26, 2018, 15:08:10 pm
Thanks for your message, l found an average time how should l read it ? For example for 4 months old 1:45 -2:00 hours he will be 19 weeks old in two days 5 months old 2:00-2:30 hours it says. You write for the 18 weeks 2:00-2:10 times thank you 🙏🏼 Can you help me for reading this timetable ? Or do we have more detailed according to the weeks ?
One more thing he goes to sleep for the night by himself 🙏🏼We are working on the day time nap for sleeping independently. But l cant  find the exact a time  :( it was really difficult for me .
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on June 27, 2018, 08:13:50 am
Well done on the independent sleep :) That's fantastic progress!

But l cant  find the exact a time   it was really difficult for me .
This can be quite individual - babies do vary.
I find that if we can find an appropriate time for your LO (I suggested something about based on what you'd written as his day routine) then we just increase by 10-15mins every fortnight and usually that holds you pretty steady with a reasonable increase that is age-appropriate. There are some tricks to working out the best A time as it can depend upon the rest of the day or how the night went, etc.  I'm happy to have a look at how your last few days have been EAS-wise and give you some suggestions if you would like that.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on June 28, 2018, 10:21:19 am
Update message,
Finally and with your help he can sleep independently in naps and bt  For yesterday we tried  to put him in his crib after two hours.  It seems fine. He sleeps without nearly no voice in two min.(  and can it be a clue for us for the approriate a time ?)then he sleeps 2:20 hours but he has a scream at the 35 min today then go on sleeping and he slept for 2:40  hours .  And howlong should it be ? Is it too long ? Because at night he wakes up more then usual . what does this mean?)
And one question to,  if he does not fight for the nap this is a signal for us for the approriate a time ?
I would like to thank to you. You help me a lot and knowing that you are there makes me feel strong.
My love , his name is Atlantis , is 19 weeks old today. İt is really amazing, time is flying.
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on June 29, 2018, 08:38:15 am
He is doing beautifully. At this age, 2hr A time is pretty spot on, perhaps a little more but if he's doing well with 2hr, keep going with that for another week or two then increase by 10-15mins so you don't get stuck with A times too short for him.

Naps of 1.5-2hr are ideal but if he sleeps a little longer that is ok, so long as he still sleeps at night. He could be wanting to feed more often at night if he's in a growth spurt. When is he waking at night?

And one question to,  if he does not fight for the nap this is a signal for us for the approriate a time ?
Often, yes.

Well done, I think you know your baby well and I'm so glad you feel strong xx
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on June 30, 2018, 11:32:11 am
Hi again :)
Yesterday night he wakes up at the same hour but l didn't go immediately and he went on sleeping after ten min. Then he wakes up 2 hours later for the df. I try to nurde him more in the day time incase it is a growspirt. His night routine like this generally :
 
Question :

He wakes up at the 45 min of his nap then cry fot 10 min then go on sleeping and sleep for one more ? What does this mean ?
 
7:45 - 8:00 sleep fot the night
10:40-11:00 df
Wakes up between 03:00 -4:30 for one time
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: becj86 on July 04, 2018, 03:03:45 am
He wakes up at the 45 min of his nap then cry fot 10 min then go on sleeping and sleep for one more ? What does this mean ?
Either he's not quite tired enough and a little A time may help or he's just learning to keep sleeping through the transition from one sleep cycle to the next. 4mo is a time when their sleep cycles become more pronounced.

Of course, I suggest if his cry is escalating and he needs you, please go and assist him but if you're hearing a mantra cry and he's just trying to get back to sleep, leave him to it :)
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on July 04, 2018, 05:11:47 am
Thanks for the answer he will be 20 weeks old tomorrow. He goes to bed 08:00 qclock for his bed time .

I breastfeed him 10:30-11:00 then sometimes he wakes up between 1:30 -2:00 is it early or it normal ? Then  l breastfeed then he wakes up at 4:00-4:30 again fir feeding then get up 07:30 for the day. Howmany hours should he have between the feeding for night ?
Title: Re: 6 weeks old short naps and fights always for the naps
Post by: gozde on July 18, 2018, 11:14:00 am
This a thank message :)
My lo is 21 weeks old and finally he sleeps two long sleep ( 1,25 min and 1:40 min) and one cat nap.
Nights are good too. Two wake up generally for breastfeeding. Thank you so much dear Becj86, you are always there and always patient to me. I would love to say to all mom , be patient trust yourself and your baby. And this forum is a real treasure for us. Thanks to everybody.