BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: babiiprycess on June 22, 2018, 02:45:55 am
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Hi! I’m a new member and hoping to gesee some advice/help. As of early last week my 10 week old has been taking 30 min naps for every nap. I actually started another program called Little ones and I don’t think it’s working/causing a lot of confusion for me. They suggested awake times of 2 hours for 9-12 week olds. I’ve tried putting my son down at 1hr and 15 min to 1 hr and 30 yielding same results-30 min naps. However he is sleeping through the night 8:30-8:30 with usually 1-2 wakes. I’m thinking it’s from exhaustion. I read about the Easy schedule and found this forum hoping I can get some help because this is draining me and has caused my anxiety to increase :(
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Hi, welcome to BW :)
Happy to hold your hand as you find out what works for your baby (they're all a bit different, so we have guidance times but work out what suits each baby because we're not all average). We call EASY a routine, not a schedule. That's because we follow the same order of events to give you and baby predictability. We say to eat/feed, then play/activity, then sleep. That helps set you up with the least likelihood of feed-to-sleep associations which are very tricky to change.
We have a few questions that are super-helpful to have answered, just so we're not assuming things:
What settling techniques are you using?
When is he feeding?
How is he feeding?
How is he settling to sleep?
Where is he sleeping?
Does he have any medical issues (prematurity, illness, etc.) and have you had any advice from medical professionals that you need to follow?
I think one of the first things to do is to try (I know its hard, esp. with anxiety) to relax a bit and just take a few days to really watch your baby and get to know her cues. Some babies at 10 weeks can do 1.5hr A time and some still haven't fully woken up from that sleepy newborn phase and are still needing a nap after 1hr. I think its reasonable to take some of the guesswork away by watching the clock for 1-1:15 A time then watch baby for 15mins and put down for a nap at 1:15-1:30 A time. I think you know him best and can determine if he's a very sleepy baby who needs a shorter A time or if he's ready to go towards 1.5hr A times which is fairly average for 3 months.
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Hi,
Thanks for your reply and support!
Settling techniques - rocking and patting him in his rock and play. If that doesn’t work then I’ll pick him up and do the same. Trying to transition him to the bassinet attempting one nap a day in bassinet.
He usually feeds every 2-3hrs
He’s exclusively breastfeed
It sometimes can take 15 mins to settle him for day naps then he’ll wake up and after 20-30 mins and I can spend 30 mins resettling him. At night sometimes up to an hour or two but it’s getting better.
No medical issues.
I will definitely watch his cues. Sometimes it’s hard since he yawns all the time but I’ll try my best today to see what happens. Thanks again!
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Sometimes it’s hard since he yawns all the time but I’ll try my best today to see what happens.
Absolutely its hard when they yawn all the time. Yawning happens for more reasons than tiredness and when its a tired sign, its a late one generally. Try to pick the earlier ones like maybe he starts rooting again, maybe he closes his eyes for longer or gets red around the eyes, maybe he gets a bit more cranky, etc. That's much easier when you're only observing closely for 15mins rather than 1.5hr and its a much more targeted search.
I think he's pretty overtired from the 2hr A time and he may need a few days of just really consistent 1:15-1:30 A times to catch up a bit and then you may start to see a better pattern. WRT settling, I would say to try to settle him in the crib/bassinet with shush/pat so that you can be there at 25mins into the nap and just be ready to do the exact same settling technique so he is reassured that nothing much has changed since he fell asleep and can learn to connect those sleep cycles. This will take some time as he's about to get more pronounced sleep cycles at 4mo but its a useful skill worth having.
Having said all that, if you have a reliable way to get 1.5hr nap into him by walking with him in the pram/sling/carrier or whatever, do that for a nap or two (I generally suggest the first one or two in the day so he's getting some good ones in which gives you a better chance with naps later in the day) just for your sanity.
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I definitely did not enforce the 2 hour awake time, I could tell he couldn’t stay awake that long. As of today he took a 30 min nap in the morning from 9:25-9:55 he managed to have a 1.5hr nap from 11:30-1:25p but had to resettle when he woke up at 12p. Took 15 mins to resettle. He just got from a 25 min nap from 2:55 to 3:20p.
So what you’re trying to say is stay with him the entire time so he can go back to sleep when he wakes at the 30 min mark? I feel like my whole day is constantly putting him to sleep since his awake time is so small. I’ll try the stroller tomorrow, he used to give us great naps in the stroller when he was younger but I didn’t want him to get used to it so we decided to go away from it.
Thank you!!
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So what you’re trying to say is stay with him the entire time so he can go back to sleep when he wakes at the 30 min mark?
No, this will send you mad, potentially. I said settle him to sleep, go back in at 25mins so you can see what happens and resettle those OT wakings 30min into the nap before he's all worked up and it takes ages.
Whilst in an ideal world your baby would always sleep in his crib, that's not terribly practical - you still have to be able to get out and about and do errands, etc. so having him able to sleep in the stroller as well is helpful, not just convenient.
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Ahhh got it! Thanks I’ll try this tomorrow. I’m so desperate. I tried to have him sleep in his stroller this afternoon and he got maybe 15 mins since everything woke him up. I attempted to put him down for another nap when we got home but no go. He’s now at about 2 hr awake time...it’s an endless cycle.
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Progress today! Morning nap was 37 mins but I went in prior to try to resettle before he fully awake. Took 9 mins, I think the patting woke him up but he went down for another 12 mins before he got hiccups ::) Afternoon nap was about 50 mins when he woke, and he woke crying I thought he was going to wake up but I carried him for a bit and he fell asleep. He went down for another 1hr and 30 mins! I’m hoping it’ll happen again tomorrow! With the wind down and shh/patting his wake time seems to be 1hr and 15 mins. He’s much happier today then he was yesterday.
Question if he takes a longer nap would his awake time be longer after that nap?
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Question if he takes a longer nap would his awake time be longer after that nap?
Not necessarily, usually if the nap is reasonable length, you would just stick with the 1:15 A time you've decided on. If its really short (30mins or less and no resettle), you can reduce the next A time by 10-15mins if he's really struggling - small enough change there that if you're watching for cues, you'll catch them and put him down that bit early anyway ;)
Well done on the resettling!
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Thanks!
I also noticed before he goes to sleep and when he stirs after that one sleep cycle he makes this sucking noises/face. He sucks on his hand but usually is unsuccessful, therefore gets frustrated (but eyes are closed) Do you recommend a pacifier. He’s EBF and at times doesn’t know how to suck a paci. Any tips?
Yesterday wasn’t as good with naps. Lunch nap was an hour and then he refused his last nap so he was very tired by bedtime :(
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I also noticed before he goes to sleep and when he stirs after that one sleep cycle he makes this sucking noises/face.
This is pretty normal self-soothing behaviour. He doesn't necessarily need a dummy to achieve that, he will find and master sucking his fingers given time, just as he would require time to work out what to do with a dummy. He will find the mastery of many new skills frustrating at times throughout his early years, so don't worry too much about that.
I went with a dummy because I thought it would be easier to wean than finger sucking because you can at least take them away. I didn't bargain on my boy being so attached to his dummies and as it didn't affect his speech or vocab in a negative way, we let him keep it a long time. He had a significant overbite when I finally weaned it but that resolved as his jaw grew and was gone within a year or so. Its a personal choice, I think I'd have gone batty without the dummy but given you're at this stage already without one, I'd probably carry on without. I certainly haven't found that a dummy is a problem wrt breastfeeding but there are some people who get concerned re: nipple confusion.
If his naps are getting shorter, he may be ready for a touch more A time.
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Thanks for all the info! I ended up giving him a dummy when he gets super frustrated. He ended up spitting it out when he was done but he didn’t know how to suck it very well to begin with. I swaddle both his arms since he stills wakes himself up with the startle reflex.
I can try a bit more awake time but would that create OT?
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I can try a bit more awake time but would that create OT?
Not if his naps get longer again... If it does create some short-term OT because he's used to a shorter A time, its usually easier to resettle than the 40min naps and he should string his sleep cycles together better within a couple of days.
Totally reasonable to still swaddle, its a lovely strong sleep cue from you to LO.
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Thank you!
For the last two days his first morning nap has been longer than an hour! Now can I let him sleep for 2 hrs or is it recommended that he only sleep for 1.5? Yesterday I woke him at 1.5 but for the rest of day he only did 30-45 min naps. I’m wondering if I should just let him sleep for 2 hours. Thoughts?
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Yes, let him sleep for 2hr if he wants it. I would probably cap around the 2hr mark though, I found watching after 2hr and just waking DS when he stirred the least unpleasant way to wake him.
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Today hasn’t been a good day, naps are 25-45 mins all day...I’m exhausted from trying to resettle. He did great with his morning nap the last two days. There’s so much more work when it’s short naps!
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There’s so much more work when it’s short naps!
Absolutely!
Sorry to read you've had a rough day. You will have plenty of days when things just don't go to plan, so try to roll with the punches and know that tomorrow is another day. You're heading for growth spurt territory, so definitely if he's demanding food 'early', feed him and try to stick with the EAS order of things - it really does help to have that predictability. Hugs xx
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There’s so much more work when it’s short naps!
Sorry to read you've had a rough day. You will have plenty of days when things just don't go to plan, so try to roll with the punches and know that tomorrow is another day. You're heading for growth spurt territory, so definitely if he's demanding food 'early', feed him and try to stick with the EAS order of things - it really does help to have that predictability. Hugs xx
Thanks! The last few days have been a lot better. It's good to know I have a place to turn too when things do go bad! I noticed he's now taking 1.5 hours nap in the morning (it could be more if I didn't wake him!) and I am thrilled!
I do have a question and I'm not sure if you are familiar with other books out there. Why do they emphasize a longer lunch nap and BW has long naps throughout the day? I actually tried another program which is very similar to that but for the life of me could not get my LO to sleep for 2.5 hours during lunch hours. With the BW program I am much happier now...especially letting LO let me know what he needs instead of forcing him to this specific schedule.
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I noticed he's now taking 1.5 hours nap in the morning (it could be more if I didn't wake him!)
That's awesome :) You don't have to wake him bang on 1.5hr of sleep either, you can allow him to wake on his own or wake him ~2hr if you prefer.
My understanding is that other people who advocate strict schedules tend to be all about making the baby fit into your life and a long lunchtime nap fits within that paradigm. I think also perhaps they're looking forward towards toddlerhood when a child takes one long nap about lunchtime and they then advocate trimming the other naps through the day and keeping that long nap solid throughout babyhood.
I'm so glad things fit better for you now. BW does advocate a method that means you listen to your baby, provide him/her appropriate opportunities for eating, playing and sleeping. We don't suggest that baby should rule the roost, however, so you're still the parent. Your job is to be consistent and by doing that, your baby has the best chance of self-regulating and taking the food, sleep, etc. that he needs. I think one of the potential cons of BW is that the routine changes up reasonably regularly as A times increase (~15mins every fortnight or so from 3 months to 6 months) so planning things a long time in advance can be tricky but we tend also to just know we can wing it for a day here and there as long as we have a plan to get back on track.
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My understanding is that other people who advocate strict schedules tend to be all about making the baby fit into your life and a long lunchtime nap fits within that paradigm. I think also perhaps they're looking forward towards toddlerhood when a child takes one long nap about lunchtime and they then advocate trimming the other naps through the day and keeping that long nap solid throughout babyhood.
I'm so glad things fit better for you now. BW does advocate a method that means you listen to your baby, provide him/her appropriate opportunities for eating, playing and sleeping. We don't suggest that baby should rule the roost, however, so you're still the parent. Your job is to be consistent and by doing that, your baby has the best chance of self-regulating and taking the food, sleep, etc. that he needs. I think one of the potential cons of BW is that the routine changes up reasonably regularly as A times increase (~15mins every fortnight or so from 3 months to 6 months) so planning things a long time in advance can be tricky but we tend also to just know we can wing it for a day here and there as long as we have a plan to get back on track.
Ahh that makes sense! Thanks for all your help and encouragement.
As for the awake times, this is something i should gradually extend or will my baby let me know he would like to be awake longer since he won't be showing sleepy cues. Right now he's pretty much at 1hr and 20 mins and he'll be 12 weeks this Friday.
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I find those people who extend A times gradually by 10-15mins each fortnight tend not to be the people who post about things going awry. People who wait for the signs often miss them - they are:
- baby sleeps shorter naps (they often gradually get shorter from 1:30 to 1:25 to 1:20, etc.)
- baby wakes frequently or for a long time, generally happy, in the early hours of the morning (3, 4, 5am)
- baby takes longer to fall asleep for naps
Babies can get really in the habit of sleeping at 1:30 A time if they do it for 1.5-2months then they seem OT if you increase their A time by even 5-10mins and really they are capable of staying up and will sleep better if they do but people get very scared of this type of short-term OT without knowing about the chronic OT they're setting up with lots of shorter UT naps.
Long story short, just increase gradually every couple of weeks and if he sleeps a 30min OT nap, be there to resettle and know he'll grow into that A time pretty soon or go back to what was working again for another few days.
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Ok the past few days, naps have gone to pot again. I’ve noticed he’ll wake 10-15 mins into a nap. He did so well last week giving us 1.5-2 hrs and it was really easy putting him down. LO just turned 12 weeks and is in leap 3, does this affect his naps? Now it takes him awhile to settle and go to sleep but he is clearly tired. He also did really well with putting himself back to sleep and now when he wakes he gets frustrated and starts crying. Just when I thought I had it down... :-\
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LO just turned 12 weeks and is in leap 3, does this affect his naps?
Yes, leaps do affect naps.
It sounds like he's waking from the jolts that happen as he goes from light sleep to deeper sleep. Have you read about hold through the jolts? That can help and you'd just hold his arms and/or legs in that time when he's jolting so he can stay asleep. Swaddling can help too if he's not already rolling, so long as he doesn't escape the swaddle - then it doesn't help.
Sorry to say this, parenting is not a job when you'll ever "have it down", in fact, you'll usually feel like that just before something changes. Children are constantly developing and new challenges come along all the time. What you've done is absolutely great though, you've had success with getting a routine that works for him and you've noticed the change and sourced information about how to help him with his new challenge. This too shall pass xx
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Yes I did read holding through the jolts but I haven’t done it in awhile and he seemed to do fine without me holding the jolts. I’m just wondering what the change could be? I’m still swaddling him, he’s in a love to dream swaddle right now since he still has the startle reflex, and he hasn’t rolled over yet.
Thanks! I do realized they are constantly growing and going through leaps. I sometimes tend to be hard on myself.
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We’ve had 30 min naps these past few days and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong! He has dark room, white noise, swaddle and he sleeps in his bassinet. I tried the wake to sleep method yesterday with success yesterday morning but that was it. LO is wide awake at 30 mins. I tried to increase his awake time to 1hr 30 mins with no success. Yesterday we even had a shorter nap at 25 mins. I usually leave him for 10-15 mins when he wakes since he doesn’t cry (usually whimpers) and giving him a chance to fall back asleep but he doesn’t. He’s napped for 1.5 - 2 he’s before so I know he can sleep longer. Should I increase his awake time even more? I feel like he’s constantly overtired. He does well at night so I don’t understand. ???
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His A time should probably be about 1.5hr now, so I'd keep it there consistently for 3-4 days. Is he hungry when he wakes? This is an age for a growth spurt and it can play havoc with naps.
Try the extra A time and see how that goes - you may need to go in a bit earlier to help him back off to sleep if he's not getting there himself. His sleep cycles become more pronounced around this age too, so he may just be needing a bit of assistance to help him learn again. How did you go with hold through the jolts?
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I’m still keeping his awake time at 1hr 30 min. He’s usually fed an hour before he goes down so I don’t believe he’s hungry. I usually feed every 2.5 hr and he seems content. He still wakes up even when I hold the jolts and starts looking around. I’m continuing the wake to sleep method to see if that might work.
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Here's hoping this phase passes soon and you find something that works :)
He may need a touch more A time - you could try an extra 5 mins if you want to and see if that helps.
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Question - when resettling does that count as awake time?
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Question - when resettling does that count as awake time?
I tend to just count the whole lot as nap time. If you've not gotten LO up from bed and have just resettled, I'd count that as sleep.
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Thanks! I’ve been counting it as awake time because I wasn’t too sure. I’m starting to think my LO’s naps are developmental. I’ve increased his awake times to 1hr 45 mins and no difference.
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I’m starting to think my LO’s naps are developmental.
Very possible, just keep on keeping on with the shush/pat for as many naps as you can and let him sleep how he wants/needs to for others so he gets used to sleeping. Unfortunately, babies are little people, not robots and they are all different in terms of how they sleep and how they learn. Hugs xx
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Thanks! I’m very nervous since I’m returning to work soon and I’ll be leaving my son with my mom. With the short naps it’ll be so much more work for her, I tried explaining that he only sleeps for 30 mins but she didn’t understand so crossing my fingers everything will go well.
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She'll understand soon enough, or maybe she'll have some old tricks up her sleeve. Some babies sleep very differently in different environments. She probably never worried about A times and nap lengths, etc. when she had babies.
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Hi becj86! Hope you are well, its been a few months and my LO is now 6 months old! Those 30 min naps were definitely developmental as he extended his first nap and occasionally his second nap. His first nap got extended to 1.5hr, I would have to wake him otherwise we couldnt fit in a third nap.
I have some new questions, LO currently has an awake time of 2hrs and 15mins in the morning and according to my mom he will fall asleep for the nap, wake up after 30 mins play and fall back asleep, wake play and fall back asleep...does he need more awake time? Then for his afternoon nap his awake time is around 2hr and 30 mins and he will occasionally wake after 30 mins, is it time to extend that one too? He will then have a 2hr awake time then third nap then bed after another 2hr awake time. The last 3 days he's been getting up around 6:30-6:45 where he normally was waking at 7.
If I extend his schedule (by 15 mins) would look something like this (its really hard to squeeze everything in a 7-7 day)
wake -7am
milk - 7am
nap 1-930-11
milk 11am
solids 12
nap 2 145-315
milk 315 (this is more than 4 hours between milk?)
nap 3 515-530?
BT 730p
What are your thoughts?