BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: lovingdad on October 30, 2018, 14:37:41 pm
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hi all, my 14m old has just dropped his morning nap after we were advised by nursery he no longer needs it as it was taking too long to fall asleep in the morning and only napped 45 mins in the afternoon. He is now doing 1.5-2hrs in the afternoon, but is waking early. Current routing is:
Wake up 5/5.30
5oz Milk 6.30
Breakfast 7.30/45
Snack 10am
Nap 12.30/1 for 1.5-2 hours
Snack 3pm
Dinner 4.45pm
Snack 6pm
Bath, 8oz milk and asleep by 7pm
He self soothes and falls asleep by himself, and does this throughout the night. Ideally need him to be waking up at 6.30 as im conscious his awake time in the morning is too long and he is knackered by the time he needs his nap. Any ideas are much appreciated.
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Hi there often EW can be a sign of OT, is he at nursery every day?
My DS1 went to 1 nap at 13 months but DS2 had 30 min CN at 9.30am then long nap at 12.40pm until he was 18 months.
Personally I’d try offering a CN when you have him but if not try bringing BT 15/30 mins earlier for a few days see if he gets a longer night.
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thanks for the advice. only thing we changed last night was giving him a more substantial snack at 6/6.15 and we had to wake him at 6.30am this morning after going to bet at 7pm. fingers crossed he stays like this
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Great update hope it continues
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so this lasted all of 2 days, and now we are back to early morning wake ups. this week has varied from 4.45-6am, far too early. by the time i drop him to nursery he sleeps for 10-15 mins in the car. his afternoon nap is anything from 1hr15-2hrs at 12.30. really at a loose end here, this is by far the earliest he has ever got up. any ideas would be greatly appreciated
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Is prob ask same questions as before!?
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he is at nursery 3 times a week, from tues-thurs but we keep the routine the same on days he is not at nursery
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What were your thoughts on the CN mid morning or EBT?
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The early wakings & the trips with the nap in the car are hard. MY Ds1 was an early waker & we had an hour trip each way to work/childcare & so it was really hard to work out what to do with the naps & bedtimes as he was a poor napper at daycare with the busyness of the place. I found it impossible to get a 12hour night sleep from either of my boys, so we ultimately opted for different things with both. With DS1 the early wakings resulted in me making some changes to my work hours (started earlier & finished earlier) & so he had an earlier nap at daycare & then a nap in the car on the way home & bedtime was a bit later so he got the 10.5hours night sleep that seemed to be matched to his needs. I forced him to 1 nap at 20 months when I started Maternity leave for DS2. DS2 rarely did more than 10hours overnight (except random 14/15 hour nights when he dropped his nap at 3+yo) so 8pm to 6am was a good night for him. When he was 14mo I was working from home & so I really needed his nap to be at the same time as DS1 & that was 1.30pm... impossible from 6am, so he had a cat nap in the morning.... when DS1 dropped his nap DS2 was about 20 months & We moved his Nap earlier & he'd take a catnap in the afternoon either on a car trip or in the stroller or even occasionally on my lap at home.
What I'm trying to say is maybe the reason he early wakes is he is a child who can't do the "textbook dream" of close to 12hours overnight & is stuck in a 2 to 1 transition where 5+ hours of A time is too long, but 2 naps are really hard to balance & so there is no ideal esp when Nursery times tend to be set & 12.30 is too late so they end up overtired but a morning nap robs day sleep.
A few things you could try is
* later bedtime & maybe the 10min sleep will be on the way home & later waking might happen, but with a 12.30 nap even with a 6.30am wake up that is a LONG wait for 14mo
* Offering differently timed naps on non nursery days to see if that helped with preventing Overtired.
* Just know that "this too will pass" as he gets older & embrace the early mornings & change your day pattern to match.
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@haribo2012 - tried a catnap for 20 mins at 9 and that still hasn’t helped his night time sleep
@katet - thanks. I hope it does pass. He did used to do minimum 11-11.5hrs before, it’s only since the clocks have gone back his bedtime has stayed the same but his wake up has gotten earlier and earlier. Today was 5.20, after a 20min catnap at 9am yesterday and a 1hr40 min nap at 1. Tried putting him down at 7.20 yesterday but still no joy :(
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Yesterday we gave him 2 solid naps as he was up at 5.20, one from 9-10 whilst we were travelling and again at 1.20-2.45. Bed time at 7 and still a 5.15am wake up this morning :(
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Yesterday we gave him 2 solid naps as he was up at 5.20, one from 9-10 whilst we were travelling and again at 1.20-2.45. Bed time at 7 and still a 5.15am wake up this morning :(
To be honest with 2 naps that overall wasn’t a bad amount of sleep, if you look at over day and night...2.25 hours day sleep and 10 hours 15 at night.
My DS1 only ever really did 10.5 hours over night but needed a longer nap so we had to accept 5.30 WU and 7/7.30 BT for a good while.
You could try later BT on a good long nap day?
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I'd agree it's a good amount of sleep over 24hours, I think the problem is he's not ready to have the A time to be on one nap & so to get 2 naps it cuts into night sleep... the unfortunate thing about babies & toddlers is what worked last month may not work this month & it keeps changing.
When things like Nursery dictate parts of the day it's lots of trial & error & often just never quite getting the ideal (why I just ended up accepting that 5.30am was the start to my Day - maybe made easier by the fact that all through my childhood that was when my parents started their day anyway.
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Totally agree Katet wrt what worked last month may not work this month, constant minefield.
Yesterday he was up at 5.15am, 30 mins nap at 9 and then sleps for 1hr30 at 1.30 (up for a little bit in between) so i decided to try and put him down a little later at 7.30pm and he woke at 6.15am this morning. Hopefully this works tonight as well. Thanks for both of your help, much appreciated!
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Great stuff sounds like a better day.
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back up at 5.15 this morning, and 5.20 yesterday. he was toying with our emotions on Tuesday waking up at 6.15 :( he definitely needs more sleep, i just dont know how to :(
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Hi how are things, sorry I’ve had hard week with my 2 boys?
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no problem, hope this week is a little better for you
so we done regular re-assurance when he woke up at 5am going in at 5/6/9 min intervals and after 2 days he is now waking past 6am thankfully. hopefully is lasts
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Good to know he’s sleeping better.
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sorry, back with this again now :( after those 2 days he fell really ill, and has been on and off since and the early wake up are still there. He is 16.5months now, and his schedule is as follows:
5/5.15am wake up
6.30am 5oz milk
7.30am breakfast
10am snack
11.30am lunch
12.30pm-2pm nap
3pm snack
4.30pm dinner
6pm snack
6.45pm 8oz milk and asleep by 7pm
he wakes every morning yawning and crying, i dont think he is getting enough sleep at night. he falls asleep by himself at night and for his naps, but im at a loose end how to get him waking up later. any suggestions welcome. thanks
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but im at a loose end how to get him waking up later.
I say this half tongue in cheek, but mostly because from a BTDT experience it really was the only thing that worked.... "wait until he is a teenager!"
TBH with my early riser, it was mostly a case of longer naps & early bedtimes as he was just programmed to be a sparrow up at the crack of dawn or before. Now at 13, he's often not up until 7am... which is not really late compared to peers, but is for him.
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the thing is i know he can wake later as he used to before the clocks went back. His meal times and nap times were reset pretty easily, as was bedtime - its just wake up which is tough. last night he was up at 4.20. after trying to get him to go back down for over an hour, i left the house at 6.10am and he slept for an hour and 10 mins in the car before nursery opened at 7.30. i know hes still tired, hes just being stubborn and fighting it. just dont know why :(
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How have the last few days been.?
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still not great. we have decided to gradually cut down his afternoon nap from 1hr30 to 1hr 15 for a few days and if need be down to 1hr. we tried putting him to sleep earlier thinking he was falling into a deep sleep too quickly but that did not help. We are thinking he is having too much sleep during the day, so waking fully from his sleep cycle around 5am. praying this works
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Good luck let us know
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didnt go well at all. he was so tired, woke up at 9pm and went back to sleep himself, then crying at 3.30 (slept in mums arms) and then again at 5am (slept in arms again). eventually got up at 6.10am :(
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Have you got any new teeth in the mix?
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canines seemed to be coming through but nothing yet. he is going through a spurt as he has been overly hungry for the past 4 days and eating alot! we resorted to controlled crying which we had done previously at 4m and 7m (which worked a treat), and after 2 nights of it, the 3rd night we had to wake him at 6.45am yesterday, and 6.25am today so it seemed to work. both nights he was asleep at 7.15pm. He stood up in his cot at 5.20am (my body clock seems to wake me up at 5 and stay up unfortunately) but didnt hear a peep out of him, he ended up going back to sleep thankfully. two good nights of 7.15pm-6.45am and 7.15pm-6.25am, tomorrow will be the true test when he has nursery for 3 days! i think he has now learnt that based on his sleep cycle the brief wakeup at 5am is not wake up time. fingers crossed this continues.
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It's a shame you resorted t controlled crying (especially at such young ages as 4 & 7mo) as while it "works", it breaks the trust a child has that their needs will be met & they tend to sleep based on a combination of exhaustion & lack of faith that their needs will be met. One nurse I know who works with a baby sleep centre described it like having a new program to use at work & someone giving you the program & telling you what they want you to achieve & then ducking their head in every so often to check you are achieving, without giving training in it. Eventually, you give up trying.
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It's a shame you resorted t controlled crying (especially at such young ages as 4 & 7mo) as while it "works", it breaks the trust a child has that their needs will be met & they tend to sleep based on a combination of exhaustion & lack of faith that their needs will be met. One nurse I know who works with a baby sleep centre described it like having a new program to use at work & someone giving you the program & telling you what they want you to achieve & then ducking their head in every so often to check you are achieving, without giving training in it. Eventually, you give up trying.
i disagree - each to their own, i wouldnt be so quick to judge what others do...the idea of these forums is to offer advice/guidance on previous experiences. i'd trust the UK's National Health Service over one nurse's opinion/analogy. there is no scientific evidence of this being harmful or breaking a childs trust.
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You are right this site is to help others with sleep
BUT in keeping with Tracy's ethos, which was never to support methods that left babies to cry alone to promote sleep.
See this link in the FAQ https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=19710.0
Also as someone who spent more than a decade at the coal face of medical research & since children I have proofed and checked for correct cross-referencing of hundreds of research papers, I'm well aware how data can be used to support a chosen theory, while ignoring information that indicates otherwise. Scientific evidence is almost always used to support the desired outcome and is (surprisingly often) not as accurate as it should be.
Also the Nurse I spoke about has worked for almost 3 decades at an organisation in Australia, that's sole purpose is to help parents with babies... the organisation "The Royal Society for the Welfare of Mothers and Babies": is 100 years old & has multiple centres across NSW & more recently into Asian Countries. It has people employed whose sole job is determine best practice and because of their research, they will never always look to methods that will avoid any potential stress on a baby (& crying does cause stress) . As you say there is no scientific evidence that it is harmful... but yet the The Australian Association for Infant Mental Health Inc, seems to question otherwise in a broader look at wellbeing.
But as you say each their own & I've written all this for any other parents to help them understand that Controlled crying is not best practice.
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As katet has said we don’t support any form of CIO on these forums, as you have said of course it is each to their own but we would rather help you with a more gentle sleep training approach.
Also try to remember that they don’t have these wake ups to be awkward or to annoy you they have times were developmentally they cannot sleep without help or they don’t understand its not morning, they are just awake and want comfort or company.
I hope the good nights continue