BabyWhispererForums.com
ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: MiniNs on January 03, 2019, 21:22:17 pm
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I’m new to posting here but have lurked for a while and have been keenly readong the BW books! But I can’t quite get things to run smoothly and wondered if I could ask for some advice?
My 11 week old wasn’t feeding very much (bottle fed) on the 3 hour EASY and seems to drink more on 3.5hours. However, he’s a cat napper of 45mins and it’s messing up all my timings!
Some advice on an example EASY to try and follow would be appreciated. Should I persevere with the 3hour schedule? I’m getting him to nap at around 1hour 20, am I right that that’s recommended for his age?
Sorry for all the questions! Just keen to start helping myself and the little man into a happier rhythm!
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It's surprisingly common for babies to not sleep more than 40 or so minutes around the 2nd/3rd & even 4th month of age. So many reasons it's hard to get the textbook timings of feeds to fit the realities of babies, esp when it is often developmental rather than routine related.
I found with my DS2 it was a case of sometimes having EASASE to get the feeds happening when he was hungry & the sleep when he was tired... that worked pretty well for me as it fitted around DS1 & I didn't have time to try & resettle, but if you can get him before he fully awakes you can try wake to sleep or just keep trying to resettle when he wakes early.
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Hello and welcome to BW forums :)
there are some sample EASY routines here:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164253.0
and the guidance A times are here:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0
Your A time is about right for age but do remember that BW is a routine which is adapted to the LO's individual needs and what works best for your own baby so if you wanted to try another 10 mins A time making it 1hr 30 and if he then slept better then that's fine. The guidance time for 3 months is 1hr 20 to 1hr 30 but if your LO likes a longer A time you may always need to look at the times of a slightly older LO. You could try 1hr 30 for the first A time of the day for a few days and see if this makes any difference. If not then try it on the second A time instead and see how that goes. Some LOs like one of their A times longer (or shorter) than the others but it's only really through experimenting that you get to know what your own baby likes.
As already said many times it is developmental stuff not just timings which effect sleep so try not to get too hung up on getting things perfect. If your LO is able to self settle then it could be that some W2S (wake to sleep) would help him learn how to transition from one sleep cycle to the next, babies can't necessarily do this without some help and support to learn that they are okay to sleep for longer. If he is not able to self settle for sleep this could be adding to him waking at the end of one sleep cycle, the W2S can still help, it may also help to begin some gentle and training so he learns he can trust you to always come when needed but also that he is confident enough to fall to sleep without always being held.
If he is feeding better at 3.5hrs I would go with that. Just jot down your times and you go through the day so that you can track for yourself when the next E and the next S are due, that way if you need to put down fora second nap before the E is due you can or if you need to feed a touch earlier just before a nap time you can also do that... I always found jotting down the times helped me avoid any clashes.
hope this helps
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Ok, so today he fed better on a 3hour schedule and seems how his naps are rubbish I think I need to stick to 3hourly and not actually push him to 3.5.
Naps are now my main issue. I think I’ve got his A time right at 1h20-30, but I’m unsure as he’s still not napping for a good length of time so perhaps does need longer but he’s often grumpy by 1h30.
I cannot for the life of me get him to self settle. Like at all! So I’m unsure if this is the problem/connecting sleep cycles or if he just isn’t tired enough to nap longer.
I have an older DS1 who I had to teach to self settle and still goes to bed brilliantly now at 28months old. So it’s not new to me. But DS2 seems to be an entirely different kettle of fish. If I put him down drowsy or even ‘just’ asleep - his eyes ping open and he moans and cries. This happens until he is inconsolable/OT. Sssh/pat won’t work at all - it seems to make him worse. Similarly, if I try to resettle when he inevitably wakes, he’s on high alert and eyes wide open and not sleepy. I have tried w2s a few times unsuccessfully - I go in at 30mins (his naps are usually 40-45) but he still seems to fully wake and then I cannot get him back to sleep. He’s a very easily distracted baby, spends his A time very wide eyed and on high alert. He naps in a dark room, with blackout, and has white noise on (as he also has on at night too)
Because of all of the above, we currently do all naps in my baby carrier or ring sling. However, this doesn’t guarantee me a long nap. Most of the time he still wakes after 45mins and then nods back off in the carrier after 20mins, or sometimes not at all.. Sometimes he’ll sleep in there undisturbed for an hour+.
I am desperate to teach him to self settle and do some gentle sleep training like you mentioned, creations, but I’m not sure where to go from here?
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Just in case it’s helpful...
Day 1
WU 7:00
E 7:00 3.5oz
A Total 1h15
8:00 3 yawns and grizzling so started wind down with cuddles and put him for nap in sling (as other chn to get ready for sports/school run). But seemed very alert - more time tired/calm 5-10mins later.
S 8:15-8:55 & then I gave up resettling at 9:10 as wide awake. A: alternating smiley and grizzly until 9:35 crying. Started wind down and eventually rocking, as he kept crying. Very unsettled yet alert. S: 9:50-10:30
total 2 x 40mins
E 10:30 4oz
A Total 1h30
Wind down 11.50 although no cues - cuddles and into sling, asleep within 5mins.
S 12:00-13:15 1hour 15 (in sling)
E 13:30 4oz
A 1hour 15
14:15 yawning and grizzly managed to jiggle him along 14:25 more yawns but smiling when given attention
S 14:40/45 in carrier on a walk woke after 30mins 15:40 -16:00 dozed on and off for 20mins and then I couldn’t get back to sleep and gave up.
E 16:30
A 1h
S Pre-bath CN. (In sling as cooking tea and wouldn’t settle in crib) 17:00 - 17:35 35mins
A 1hr35
Bath time etc -was fine until 18:50 and then suddenly inconsolable and wouldn’t really take feed for crying. For clarity - I bath DS1 and 2 together, then get DS1 dressed and in bed for 18:55, so that I can take DS2 through for his feed and BT.
E 19:00 1.5oz
BT S 19:15 - woke every 10mins until 20:00, then settled.
DF 22:00 - 2.5oz (too sleepy)
NFs 2:00 - 4oz... but normally has 2- one at around 1/1:30am and another around 4:30. Taking 2.5-3oz each.
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Day 2
WU/E 7:00 4oz
A 1h15
(Was yawning and grizzly after 45mins but I managed to distract him until he started getting upset around 8:10)
S (in sling) 8:15-9:25 1hr10... that’s not a bad nap but should I be keeping him awake longer to try and get a longer nap?
E 10:00 5oz
A: 1h30
WD started at 1h20
S: 10:55/11:00 (he nodded off on my shoulder during WD, but partially woke as I put him down at 11:00) - 11:45 (I went in to do W2S after 30mins but he was zonked and snoring and then DS1 needed me and intried to get in to do W2S at 40mins but it was lunch time for other kids and I couldn’t) tried to resettle in bedroom but he was wide awake and after 10mins I had to give up as other children needed lunch. Because of this i put him in the sling and with a lot (a lot!) of jiggling around whilst I made lunch he nodded back off at 12:00.
2x 45mins
E: 13:00 5oz
A: 1hr15
S: 14:00 -14:40 40mins tried to W2S but I had literally just walked in as he was stirring and he thought about settling back off for a few secs but then woke fully. Think the sound of DS1 moaning about his snack from downstairs didn’t help haha. Sat on the bed and held him and he slept (probably more like dozed tbh) a further 45mins 14:50-15:45
E: 16:00 4oz
A: 1hr 15 (although was tired after 45-60mins)
S CN: 17:00 25mins (think he had wind)
A 1hr 30 inc bath time
E: 18:50
BT S: 19:00
Sorry for such a lengthy post. I just wonder if there any advice you can give on awake times or sleep training etc.
Thanks in advance!
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I am desperate to teach him to self settle and do some gentle sleep training like you mentioned, creations, but I’m not sure where to go from here?
There's no quick fix or magical method though, you just have to keep at it. Keep reassuring and keep putting down to nap if ou want him to learn to self settle. There are many with LOs this age though who would go for all naps in the sling, the bonding is great, it gives you more freedom in some ways, less in others. Maybe go for one nap per day if you want to sleep train in the cot? If you do choose this way forward you'd ideally pick a nap and do the *same* nap every day to create a predictable routine and build a habit. It can take longer this way rather than doing all naps and night sleep but it is a preferable way for many.
You may be putting him down to sleep too late in the wind down, if he is very comfortable to fall to sleep on you then you can expect him to be a bit annoyed by being put down for sleep. You'd need to keep comforting and soothing in the cot all the way to sleep, if he doesn't like shush/pat then maybe try a rub or stroke with the white noise, or a firm hand doing some rocking?
If he gets upset and crying you do pick up and comfort in arms and then when calm you put down again and continue to sooth in the cot. it can mean some missed naps and some disturbed and short naps but LOs do eventually fall asleep.
You also need to continue the soothing, whatever method you use, rub/rock etc for a full 20 mins after nodding off so that you see him through to the deep sleep part of the cycle. Of course if you spend 20+mins to wind down and then 20+ mins to get him off and another 20 mins to see him through to deep sleep you can see how the time adds up - it does take time and patience and initially you don't get much in the way of Y time while he naps.
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E 13:30 4oz
A 1hour 15
14:15 yawning and grizzly managed to jiggle him along 14:25 more yawns but smiling when given attention
S 14:40/45 in carrier on a walk woke after 30mins 15:40 -16:00 dozed on and off for 20mins and then I couldn’t get back to sleep and gave up.
This sounds like an overtired nap.
Many babies don't necessarily do the same length A times at every nap. If they haven't rested well previously, or it's been busy with lots of stimulation, they can want to nap earlier, or sometimes they can last longer because they are relaxed & calm, so it's important to look at the signs they are giving with their behaviour more so than the clock.
The fact he can do longer sometimes, means he's got some of the skills, but like most things with children they don't all master skills at an exact time or in the same way. Temperament and environment are big factors, first children almost always sleep better because Mother's have less distractions and are more focussed on them, where as subsequent children have more stimulation & distractions.
Generally by 5/6 months babies are more often than not joining sleep cycles together, so it will come.
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Thank you both again.
It’s so nice to get some advice and feel like people know where I’m coming from.
I have tried the PUPD type gentle sleep training, as I did this with DS1. My issue that DS1 is at home, and only 27months, so I am often unable to spent the level of time that is needed. I totally agree that I need to choose the same nap every day to try and push this. I’ve thought about this carefully. The sling is pretty much necessary for his first and fourth naps just because of the time of day and family life. I really want to be able to try and get him down for the second and third naps. But it’s really hard as school runs clash with them on some days but not others, etc etc. I’m going to try my best to do it at weekends when OH is home and then on the 2 days that I don’t have school runs. So that’s half the week. And those 4 days run consecutive too. That’s the best I’m able to do with consistency, for now, until his A and S times change and perhaps it will work better around other routine we have for our other DC.
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The fact he can do longer sometimes, means he's got some of the skills, but like most things with children they don't all master skills at an exact time or in the same way. Temperament and environment are big factors, first children almost always sleep better because Mother's have less distractions and are more focussed on them, where as subsequent children have more stimulation & distractions.
Generally by 5/6 months babies are more often than not joining sleep cycles together, so it will come.
This was a great comfort to read, thank you. :)