BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: EllieLock on August 02, 2005, 20:36:09 pm
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Hi there,
Just worrying about my supply of milk. I've had really painful nipples (I now have a hole in one side of my right nipple where it's had so much damage) and am worried I've affected the supply by not being consistent with feeding. I've used a shield on a few occasions when I just couldn't stand it any more, and avoided using the right one quite so much at times I guess.
I've bought a medula electric pump and started using it today, but am worried as I never seem to be able to get more than an ounce out of each side :( She isn't putting on weight as much as she should and I'm concerned it's cos I'm not producing enough now.
I was wondering if anyone else has any ideas/plans which could help with regards to when to express and how much, and when to do top ups etc. I'm now paranoid my milk is going to dry up!
Thanks in advance,
Ellie
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Hi Ellie - a couple of questions first:
How old is you lo? And are you breastfeeding much at all now or mostly pumping to give bottles? How long have your nipples been sore and have you had the latch checked to rule out that as a factor? Also thrush can reek havok on one's nipples too...
I think until your nipples can be healed up (and you should REALLY see a lactation consultant ASAP for that!), it'll be hard to up your production. The best way to up production is to feed, feed, feed! Your milk supply will increase with demand - either bf or pump (although for some moms it's harder to do with a pump). But first you need those poor nipples addressed!! :(
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Hi RedStarFalling
Thanks for replying. My lo (does that mean little one?) was 2 weeks old on Sunday. Nipples have hurt from day 1, with lo sicking up just blood cos of damage to right hand side at one stage. I'm pretty sure it is down to latching on issues, I went to a clinic yesterday and they made some improvements to my technique, but said it's going to take quite a while for the right one to heal. :( I've done nearly 24 hours of expressing to bottle feed from that side to give it a rest, but am back to the breast now, albeit very gingerly.
Atm I'm feeding roughly 3 hourly. Do you think I should make it more like 2 hourly? Should some of these be expressed?
TIA,
Ellie
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I'm really not too sure. Did you ask the lc about that too? If it were just a matter of increasing your supply, I'd say, yes - go to 2 hr feedings for a couple of days. But if your nipples are still that bad, I'd be afraid of causing more pain and damage - maybe Monika or Katherine can comment (the moderators). Actually breastfeeding tends to be a better stimulation that just pumping, but does the pumping hurt as much? If it's less painful, then I'd be inclined to do some of the pumping during the day to rest your right breast and demand or cue feed on the left - anywhere from every 2-3 hrs. Once your nipples are healed up, you could always increase the frequency of your feeds and that would likely up your production quickly.
Are you also using something like lansinoh cream on the nipple? I found it somewhat helpful with chapping. Also, you could take some tylenol before a feed to help with pain and some moms have used ice on the nipple to help with the first latch on. But I'd suggest that only if you know the latch is better - pain is a signal that there's a problem! You should definitely go back to the clinic in a couple of days (if you can!) to recheck the latch and make sure you're still doing it right. Did they also check for thrush?
That's all I can think of right now - but I wanted to say good for you for sticking it out this long - I can only imagine what you've been going through! A lot of moms would have given up and I'm impressed that you didn't!! :D And lo does mean "little one". :wink:
BTW, if you don't hear from Annasmum or Davidsmom on this thread in the next day or so (I'd feel better if you had their input too), maybe PM them or I will, just to check if they have other thoughts. Good luck and keep me posted on your progress! :)
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Hi Ellie,
It sounds like you've gotten good advice from your breastfeeding clinic. First you work on that latch (good positioning, baby to breast not breast to baby, mouth wide, nipple deep in mouth) and yes give your breast that is damaged a rest when you need to. It is ok to nurse off the good side first and the hurting side second if that feels better, or just pumping the second side. Our breasts are amazing adaptive things, and they will produce as much as your baby needs.
At 2 weeks old, I would hesitate to pump too much in replacement of feedings. If your supply is truly not enough, then you nurse first and then pump immediately after. Your lactation consultant should give you a schedule for this type of feeding/pumping.
Also at 2 weeks old, only producing 1-2 ounces per breast is normal from a pump. Your baby can get more milk (with a good latch) than a pump can get, even the Medela PIS. She should probably be feeding more often like redstarfalling said, every 1.5-2 hrs during the day(this means you must wake her during the day to eat) and every 3-6 hrs at night. (Some lc's suggest not going longer than every 3 hrs at night is supply is truly an issue)
Here is a link http://www.bflrc.com/newman/articles.htm to some handouts by Dr Jack Newman, breastfeeding "guru" of Canada. His writing on proper latch and sore nipples are fantastic help!
Best of luck and keep on seeing that lc. Getting off to a good start now will ensure your nursing success!
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Hi Ellie,
You've had some great advice already, but I just wanted to add that I also had problems like that in the first couple of months, and nearly gave up several times :cry: .
I know I would have done if my hv hadn't recommended KAMILLOSAN Cammomile cream for sore nipples. As you're in the UK, most supermarkets sell it (yellow box, white tube, in the baby aisle next to gripe water, etc). It must be put on AFTER every feed, and thoroughly cleaned off before feeds (as another hv said it can cause thrush :roll: ) - I used baby wipes. You also need breast pads as it can be messy (Tommy Tippee are the best). I had to persist with it, and used it until my lo was about 3 months, but like I said, I don't think I could have carried on without it.
Take care, hope it works out,
Caroline
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Just to add to what GraceKellysMom said, Dr Newman is a fantastic resource, and he has his own website http://www.drjacknewman.com with lots and lots of information and ideas (including a bf'ing how-to dvd that dd and I are in! no gratuitous boob-shots of us, though :lol: ).
Also, a friend of mine went to see him when she was having trouble nursing because of cracked and bleeding nipples, and he prescribed some sort of cream for her that would allow her to continue bf'ing. She said it was awesome and leaps and bounds better than any of the over-the-counter stuff that she had been trying. I don't know what it was, but he might mention it on his site, and you might be able to get a prescription from your own doctor if you're still in a lot of pain.
Good luck! We struggled at first, too (dd didn't gain any weight between her 2nd and 3rd month check ups), but got some great advice from Dr Newman and it made all the difference.
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Thanks for the advice/help ladies. I have been watching the videos on the Dr Newman site and think I have improved the latch still further. I know it's still not perfect as the nipples come out slightly ridged instead of round but it's a definite improvement. I've been trying to feed a little extra, and have been expressing, but mainly so that DH can give a feed every now and again to give me a break. I was a bit concerned to find though that the left ("good") nipple came out red, in parts after epressing, and purple on the underneath. Some has improved but there is still a small purple patch, is this bruising do you think?
Thanks for the cream recommendation Charlie's mum, I've been using lanolin cream, but will look out for yours in the supermarket.
Thanks again for the help. It's heartening to have some positive advice, I was getting a little disheartened at how much it was hurting.
Cheers,
Ellie
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Hi there,
My baby is 8 weeks. I've had sore nipples on-and-off since he was born (more 'on' than 'off'!!) due to me having very sensitive skin. I bought the Avent Nipple Protectors (you can get them in mothercare, tesco extra, babies r us) which really helped me. I use them most of the time now which isn't ideal but it's the only way my nipples can cope.
I'm also currently concerned about weight gain as my baby's weight gain has always been very slow. I'm now convinced that this may be due to tongue tie and therefore not being particularly efficient at feeding. I have therefore been expressing a lot the past couple of days. Sometimes I get 4oz, sometimes only 3oz, sometimes as much as 5-6oz (normally first thing in the morning). So don't be surprised if you get lots one time, and little the next. To increase supply (to fatten him up) I'm also trying to pump an extra few times a day for about 20 minutes. It can be disheartening when you don't get much out but it can take a few days for your milk supply to increase properly.
In the UK, Medela hire out 'professional' double electric pumps but it's not cheap (they have a website). In the US, you can actually buy them but they're still not cheap. I'm lucky that my sister lives in US and sent me hers (I just had to get the appropriate transformer). If you are going to be expressing a lot it might be worth you looking into this. I used the Avent manual pump before but could only get anything out while my baby was feeding on the other side . The Medela double electric breast pump works like a dream and I can now pump at any time with no problems.
Good luck and don't give up! It's no wonder that a high percentage of mothers in the UK give up breastfeeding within the first 6 weeks. I've found the support to be poor and I haven't been asked the right questions about feeding when it comes to his poor weight-gain. I've had to work the problem out myself with the help of my parents (who have 4 kids) and my sister (3 kids).
Catriona.
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It's no wonder that a high percentage of mothers in the UK give up breastfeeding within the first 6 weeks. I've found the support to be poor and I haven't been asked the right questions about feeding when it comes to his poor weight-gain. I've had to work the problem out myself
You are so right - it seems like our Mums in the US have much better clinical support & advice about bf than we do. I've never 'clicked' with my HV, and find her particularly useless. The community midwife I had at first was brilliant, and helped me initially, but they are replaced by the HV quite quickly, and she has never helped me. She just doesn't seem interested, just wants to weigh him & get me out of there. I know there are good ones, but surely the system should be better - it shouldn't just depend on the personality of the one you get?
That's why I've found this website sooooo useful 8) . I don't know where I'd be without all you guys!
Caroline
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Hi there,
Just wanted to say thanks for the replies. Have been expressing more with my medula electric mini pump and am getting more now, although still never more than 2oz a side. Not sure whether my supply has increased or not, but I certainly seem to be leaking more!
I agree that we don't get as good support here in the UK. I had a discussion with the breast feeding clinic lady about producing a leaflet for all new mums, there are lots of things I wish I'd known before starting bf'ing!
Cheers again,
Ellie
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I have been very disappointed with the level of pre-natal and post-natal care on the NHS... in some instances I have been totally shocked. Unfortunately I came across some midwives who spoke in jargon and expected everybody to understand what she was talking about, and others who made unhelpful comments when I asked reasonable questions (and as a first-time mum I ask a lot of questions.....!). Health visitors generally have been bad as well. I know some of the poor support has been due to the lack of staff in my area, but that's really not an excuse for everything. If it wasn't for the fact that my parents are both doctors, and my sister has 3 kids, and we all have a few braincells (!) I'd be totally lost. It's no wonder so many new mums get depressed and despondent.
Catriona.