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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: AliceUK on December 31, 2005, 12:46:03 pm
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Hugs is nearly 5 months, and has never slept more than 4 hrs. Have worked really hard on 3 hr EASY, and he now naps pretty much as the book says (3 one and a half to 2 hr naps plus a 45min catnap in the pm). Goes down at 6.30 or 7, and wakes 4 hrs later, than every hour or two for the rest of the nite, til 6.30 or 7. I used to feed again at about 3 or 4am, and he would go back to sleep. Have been working on giving up the night feed for 2 weeks, and he now doesn't seem to want it. BUT still waking every hour, with a long spell (up tp 2 hrs)awake sometime between 3 and 5. Use a paci - could this be it? Trying to move to 4 hr EASY, but he is sooo sleepy it is hard to make him wait - then of course he doesn't nap well.
Gettig exhausted. Any ideas?
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I'd ditch the paci & use pu/pd, if you're sure he isn't hungry. What does he want to do, play? My guy is waking through the night & I feed him if it's been 4 hours & other than that we're starting pu/pd. I was going to start with a paci (he doesn't take one) but then I thought, what am I nuts!? He has to learn to self soothe. He finds his thumbs in the day, I'm hoping will find them in bed. Good luck.
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I guessed that is what people would advice. Dropped that aci yesterday. First na not to bad, but the second was a non-starter. Tried for 3 hrs with no success. Nite was as before 3hrs sleep, then woke every hour until morning - only with screeming instead of popping the paci back. Not nice! But there was no extended spell awake. Not surprising really.
Patting wrks best, but now I'm afarid that will turn int another prop. Pretty desperate now.
Are you making an prgress?
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For some reason the past 3 nights my LO has only been up every 4 hours(ish) to eat & back to sleep. Not sure why & hope I don't jinx it. :wink: I did see that he sort of sucks on his lip now so maybe he does that to self soothe? Dunno.
When you pat, do you do it until he settles right down? Try to resist doing that... pat to reassure him, then step back. This way he's still learning to settle on his own, but with your support.
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Alice - I just read your post and had a couple of thoughts. I agree with Glynis that you should work on eliminating the paci. The other thought I had was that you said your LO is on a 3 hour EASY. Most babies move to a 4 hour EASY at around 4 months, maybe it it time for you to start stretching out your days. It will help to consolidate day time naps and help your LO take bigger, better day time feeds. Don't worry too much about patting turning into a prop - it is a much easier one to wean your LO off down the track if it becomes an issue. I also agree that, if possible, you could try to stop the patting before your LO falls completely asleep, but that may be a gradual process.
Glynis - Sounds like you are doing a great job. That sucking on his lip is definitely a form of self soothing for your LO. Sensible thought about not introducing the paci at this time :wink: well done!
Good luck to you both
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Thanks Jo - much better last nite - same number of wakes but LO went off to sleep on his own twice. Will try 4 hr EASY, but it is hard when he is not sleeping well at nite, and naps are troublesome.
Thanls for the support.
A
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I tried to stretch Samuel out to 4 hours & it just wouldn't happen. And he eats his fill when he eats, too, little piggy. :P
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Alice - sounds like good progress!! Keep up the good work!
Glynis -
And he eats his fill when he eats, too, little piggy.
LOL, at least you have a good eater on your hands :lol: . It does take some babies a bit longer than the 4 month mark to stretch to a 4 hour EASY (particularly breastfed babies) but I would encourage you to keep at it. Perhaps you could try a 3.5 hour EASY for a bit to help DS ease into the slightly longer time between feeds. The other challenge with moving to a 4 hour EASY are short naps - when I was making the change over we used to start our day with EASY but then would have to have A time before E time until those naps extended for longer and longer periods as the day went on. Eventually we got it all sorted out. Samuel will get there too! Good luck.
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Jo - had the night from hell last night - (3rd night without the paci) still waking every hour, and took over an hour to settle on 2 occassions. PLEASE tell me this is normal and that things will settle down. But, is going down for naps quite easily, and sleeping over an hour at a stretch.
Should I try the wind down ritual every time he wakes and won't settle in the night? BF seems to work, and I get a little more sleep afterwards, but I know he's not really hungry, and I don't want to go back to 2 hourly feeds at night.
Will try 3.5 hr EASY - naps are not so much of a problem if I work on 2 hours up, but we get all in a muddle with feeds as he still wants feeding every 3 hrs, and that sometimes falls in the middle of a nap - and he wakes. Just tried a little snack before this nap to see if that helps stave off a full feed until he's had some decent nap time.
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Hi Alice
Can you tell me what is happening when DS wakes during the night and what you are doing (other than the feeding) to get him back to sleep?
Thanks
Jo
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If he does not settle in a minute or two, I am reswaddling and making sure his fingers are in his mouth. I do some patting if he is still fussing, otherwise, I put my hand on his chest for a short while then go back to bed (he is beside me in a cot). Half of the time he nods off, the other half I have to repeat the process. I fed him at about 3 last nite, but he didn't seem hunngry and took an hour the settle to sleep afterwards. I thought I would try to postpone the feed tonite. I read somewhere that feeding at nite can cause frequent wakings as the system does not shut down properly. I managed to get him to go about 8 hrs without a night feed before Xmas, but the frequent (hourly or so) wakings continued, and I went for getting rid of the paci and reintroduced a nite feed. Incidenally I started some months ago to do a dream feed at about 10.30, but within 3 days he was waking and asking for it. So I now feed when he wakes around that time.
I haven't used the paci for three days now, and it wasn't as bad as I feared, but the frequent wakings continue, and I am not sure what to do now. I suppose he will eventually learn that he needs to suck his fingers to get to sleep. He can put them in his own mouth in the day, but at night seems to stare at his hand way up in the air and shout at it to come down. Only if I swaddle with his hand right by his mouth does he work it out for himself.
Alice
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Hi Alice
OK I'm thinking that changes won't happen immediately - DS probably needs a couple of nights to get the new idea.
I've also read back through your posts and I'm going to say again that I think you need to work towards a 4 hour EASY - I've just noticed that your DS is taking 3 x 1.5 hour naps plus the catnap - which is a lot of daytime sleep for a 5 month old.
You said you fed last night at 3 - what time was the feed before that?
I read somewhere that feeding at nite can cause frequent wakings as the system does not shut down properly.
I've never heard this before so I'm not sure. I do know that most babies at 5 months are still waking during the night to feed.
Have you tried to introduce a lovey? A lot of LO's take to a lovey at around this age which helps them to self soothe.
Also - how is your DS falling asleep at the beginning of the night - now that the paci has gone are you having to assist him to sleep? How are you doing that? It is very important that he is falling alseep independently at the beginning of the night (patting and ssshhhing are ok but holding, rocking, feeding to sleep etc can cause nightwaking problems).
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We are doing much better without the paci now. At bed time (6.30 for 7 sleep) I feed, swaddle (one hand in mouth), we cuddle and sing a song, then he goes into the cot awake and I leave. Usually he just goes off to sleep. The same for naps, but no feed first. Last nite he woke at 9.30, 10.30 (I fed), 2.40, 4 (I fed) and then 6.30, so I suppose things are improving now. Each time he settled quickly, no patting, just reswaddle with hand in mouth. Is the end in sight I wonder?
The times of waking are really pretty regular, but I am not sure if they are habitual. In any case it would be hard to do wake-to-sleep so many times.
I am working on 4 hr easy, but hunger is still a problem. He takes both breasts each feed, every three or three and a half hours. I am seeing the Health Visitor tomorrow and will raise the subjcet of weaning, although in the UK the advice is strongly not to do so before 6 months. With the sleep I am trying to keep him up about 2 hrs after he wakes - is this sensible, or should I set more regular nap times and stick to those regardless of how long he slept last nap? I don't want an overtired baby on my hands as he is then very diffcult to settle. He is now having about 1.5 hr starting at 8.45 or 9, plus 45min-2hr starting at anytime between 11.30 amd 1.30, and an hour at 4or 5. Bed at 7.
Alice
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Hi Alice
Well, last night sounds like a much better night for you IMO!! It may be that you'll need to start to consider weaning off the swaddle but I wouldn't consider that yet if I were you, I'd just let things sort themselves out for a bit. If in a bit DS is still waking to be reswaddled, you might want to think about that.
Certainly sounds like things are moving in the right direction.
Re your days - from my recollection (how quickly we forget!! :lol: ) they sound very much like what our days were like when my DS was that age. The EASY board has good sample routines for you to look at to see what other's your DS's age are doing during the day. I personally have done a combination of set nap times and working off A time - depending on what seems to work best at the time.
About weaning to solid food - I am a big advocate of waiting to the 6 month mark before introducing solids however you know your DS best and your HV will be able to give you their professional opinion. The milk that you produce will certainly be enough to sustain your LO - it will regulate to a 4 hourly feeding cycle. In order to reach the 4 hour goal - you can stretch the feeds out by 15 minutes every couple of days - there is a guide to this at the top of the EASY board as well and also a plan in Tracey's third book.
HTH!
Jo
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Just wanted to add sounds like things are improving, but introducing solids could actually backfire it rather than improve things as the younger a digestive system is the more likely it is to get upset by new foods... I would hold off until you sort out the sleep problems rather than add a 2nd potential problem into the mix.
I do agree with Jo, moving to a 4 hour feeding routine will help, you are best doing small adjustments to 1-2 feeds, the more you consolidate to 3 naps will also help night sleep as your lo will have had bigger feeds & longer awake to tire him & that can help push past the wakeups.
also 1-2 feeds over a 12 hour stretch at night is fairly reasonable in a bf baby, up until 6mo.
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Thanks Kate and Jo. Will heed your advice re solids, especially as he was a bit refluxy anyway. Better again last night except for a pooy nappy at 3 which raher upset things.
A