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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Nicole-Momtomegan on March 22, 2006, 01:31:39 am
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Here's my story, hopefully it might help someone. i'm still in the midle of it, but so far so good!!
My dd went to one nap about 2 months ago (at 16mo's) and it has been horrible. since then her one nap is generally only 1-1.25hrs long tops! she has been waking sporadically at night and crying alot at bedtime and naps.
i was reading something that Michelle-megsmom sent me and it clearly said that if you're transitioning to one nap and your child ins't getting eough sleep that it will cause early wakings and night wakeups!
it said to put them to bed EARLY! even 6-7pm or earlier!
i had been putting meg downa t 7.... so the other day after a rough night and only a ONE hour nap:(...she was so tired, i put her to bed at 5:30pm!! she went right to sleep, no crying, no wakeups and slept until 6am! you would be surprised how much junk can be related to OVER tiredness. last night i put her to bed at 6pm (you want to aim for 4.5hrs after they wakeup from their nap to be in bed). that's what has worked for us and many others.
anyway, i put her to bed at 6pm and she slept until 6:15am this morning. i heard her babbling at 3am but i didnt' need to go in.
i've also been doign the wake to sleep at the 1hr mark for naps and getting an extra 45min out of her totally 1hr 45min so that's not bad. tonight she will be in bed again at 6:15pm.
you may want to try this!! My sister's 2yr old daughter has also been waking early, fussing at bedtime etc...so last night she put her to bed at 6:50 and she was out cold by 7pm with no fussing. she normally puts her down at 7:30 and she isnt' aslep until 8pm.
so, she was surprised too! sometimes just a difference of 15min to 30min can make the difference of them being overtired or not. you need to do this for 5-7 days as well.
Nicole
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well done, we did the same for dd as she was the same crying at sleep times and waking earlier, i too was amazed, it only last a short while and then she could stay up longer again, also her napping time extended it self as well, thanks for sharing
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Hey....do you think her napping extended as a result of the earlier bedtime? do you remember how the timing was during that transition, bedtime, wakeup and nap times? just curious! i REaLLY want her to start taking a 2hr nap on her OWN.:)
Nicole
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hi there-thank you for posting this. I know exactly what you read from Michelle about the early bedtime. Funny, I post that as advice on the nap forum too but haven't put it to practice!
It's difficult for me as my DS rarely shows sleep cues so I've been trying to figure out his ideal bedtime. We're on one nap today that started at 12:30 and I can guarantee it will only be 1:15-1:20 long. uh-oh...he's crying...1:10 long!
VERY early bedtime for us today.
*edit* I was able to extend his nap! yay! Hoping he'll go another 45 or so. I've put him down as early as 6:15...but never tried before 6. Thanks for giving me the courage to do it if necessary.
Lastly-what do you do for WTS? Just jiggle her a bit? I've never had much success with it as DS is a very light sleeper and i end up waking him up!
thanks
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Very excited to find this thread! I have been thinking about putting ds down later - not earlier. I'm curious to know what the timing is of everyone's sleep time? My son used to sleep from 7-6:30, 1 nap at 11-12:30. He was doing fine with this until a few days ago and he's been waking up before 5:30, the last 2 mornings at 4:45! Yesterday I nursed him and put him back down and he slept until 7. Then I put him for his nap a little later and he slept longer, 12-2. I put him down for bed at 7 and he fell asleep by 7:30, but he was up at 4:45 this morning. Instead of going in to him I waited hoping he would go back to sleep - I didn't want to encourage the early wakings. Nicole, you suggested to put him to bed 4.5 hours after his nap - so maybe I should have put him to bed at 6:30? He definitely did not show any sleep signs - even at 7 when I put him to bed.
Jenn
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HI Jenn,
well, if he's not getting afull night sleep then we are compensating for that...so....hmmmm
well, see i normally put meg down early b/c her nap is short...but if he's taking a 2hr nap...then i'm not sure. if i were you, but i'm not:)...this is what i would try...wakes up at 5ish.....nap at 11 or 11:30am... (until 1ish.)....bed at 6pm or 6:30pm
OR....do the nap the same 12-2...( he must be so tired by noon though....)....and then bed at 6:30.pm. she says that even 15-30min earlier bedtime can make ALL the differnce. so give it a try. Megan is going to bed at 5:30pm tonight b/c we went to the beach today and she only got 2-30min naps in the car.....
i'll let you know what time she'll wake up tomorrow:)....i'm prediciting 6am. (12.5hrs).
but i tell ya, it sure does work, b/c she hasn't woken up once at night (atleast not crying where i had to go in)...or slept less than 12hrs since i've been doign this. it means early mornings..BUT it also means i have my night free at like 6pm!! adn that is awesome!
let me know how you make out,
Nicole
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I am hving problems with my son Tanner. He was not sleeping well in the crib ie. crying getting to bed, wanting to be rocked in the rocking chair, waking at night and rising at 5:45! We thought he might do better in a "big boy bed" so we took the front off the crib and got cool new sheets. He has done better- his naps are longer-yesterday he took a 3 hour nap. I know, though, it was because he is so tired. His normal bedtime is 8:00 and wakes at 5:45 on the dot lately with usually a 2 hour nap. Any advice to get him to sleep later into the morning?
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We are now having the early wakings and some night wakings over here too!!! Nicole, I might try your posting tonight. I have been putting Tatum down later, but I think I need to try earlier tonight. I am starting to struggle myself with little sleep! :o
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Early bedtimes really can help a toddler sleep in a little later. Its crazy but it really does work. I find on nights that I put Henry to bed later he actually wakes earlier. If I put him to bed even 15-30 minutes earlier, he sleeps that much later.
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We have proof here that it works - crazy as it sounds. When I told my dh I was going to put him down earlier he thought I was nuts - he has been wanting me to put him down later to get him to sleep later. Well - it was not nuts. The first night I put him to bed an hour earlier and he slept in 45 minutes later - that's almost 2 extra hours of sleep! Then he napped only 1.5 hours that day so I put him to bed about an hour early again - he slept until 6:30 - over 12 hours! He is currently napping - over 2 hours so far... So based on the later morning and the long nap I should be able to put him to bed at his normal time tonight. The extra sleep helped him get back on schedule! Woohoo! Remember... sleep begets more sleep!
Thank you!
Jenn
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I"m so glad this is helping some of you ladies adn that you can atest that it works!!!
we are still doing the early bedtime but only b/c megs nap is still short...but I don't mind, infact i quiet like the 6-6 or 6:30-6:30 schedule. PLUS it will be daylight savings next week which means we'll be back to 7-7..so it should work out perfectly:)
Tanners mom, I think everything you're reading is teh solution. I can almost guarantee if you put him to bed ealier he will sleep later! when is his nap time? if it is around 12-2 or 11-1, he should be back in bed by 6:30ish tops!! just take a leap of faith, i'm sure it will work.
has his bedtime always been 8ish? when did the early wakings start. some more info would help. thanks! and good luck!!
Nicole
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Hmm... well, ds took a 3-hr nap yesterday (11-2). He also slept 12 hours the night before (waking up at 6:30a). So I put him down at his normal bed time last night (7pm) instead of the early time. He woke up at 4:15 this morning, then went back to sleep on his own until 5:15. Not really what I was expecting. I might have to put him down a little earlier again tonight, especially since his nap is earlier. :-\
Jenn
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Not to rain on the early to bed parade but while I've found during nap transitioning (3 to 2) and (2 to 1) the earlier bedtime solved the night waking problem I have never been able to extend sleep times through an earlier bedtime. My lo sleeps only 9.5 to 10 hours per night. When I'm able to get her down early she wakes that much earlier and her whole day gets shifted earlier--not great when early waking is your problem. By all means I recommend giving this a go for a while but if all you are doing is shifting your toddlers day earlier and earlier you will likely have to push both the nap and bedtime back again.
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Tanner takes a nap btween 11:30 and 12:30 and yesterday he slept for about an hour, the day before 3 hours and today he crashed and still sleeping. I did take the advise and put him to bed about 45 min early last night and he slept until about 6:15 or 6:20. I will try to put him to bed earlier tonight. Am I on the right track?!?
It is hard, though, because that is even before dad gets home! Hopefully the time change will help as well! So you say that if he starts sleeping later and his naps shorten that we can then start gradually putting him to bed later?
Thanks for your help!
Krista
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Last night was very frustrating! Started to get him down at 7:20 and he really fought us. His eyes would drift off and he would force them awake. He finally went down at almost nine. He was once again up at 5:45. Should I put a gate up at his door? And what do I do when we are out for the evening--we have dinner plans at friends' houses on Saturday and Monday! My head is spinning!
Krista :o
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Hi Ladies, I hope I can jump in here. We too are having problems with early wakings. I feel like my boys have done this off and on for over a year now and it is very frustrating especially when all our friends children sleep until 7:00am. I put the boys to bed early on Tuesday at 6:00pm and they slept until 6:30am!!!! They napped from 11:30am to 1:00pm that day. The next day I put them down at 630pm (nap 11:45am-1:30pm) and they were up at 5:30am. Last night I put them down at 600pm (nap 11:30-1:00pm) and they were up at 5:30am. I'm lost on what to do. :-\ They are recovering from an ear infection and one last canine coming through but I'm so tired of getting up this early. I leave them in the crib until 6:30am hoping they will fall back asleep but they never do. I put them down for a nap at 10:00am this morning because they both were yawning and whining. They were asleep in a few minutes.
Any advice for me? Tomorrow is day light savings time so hopefully that will shift it to 6:30am. If I remember last year they were waking early also and even continued after day light savings...ugh
Kelly
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Kelly
Sounds like you're having the same experience I did with the early bedtime--works great short term to help out with sleep deficits but once that is done the early to bed is counter productive because of the early waking, then early napping etcI'd use the time change to get the boys back to what is a better schedule for your family. It sounds like there getting lots of sleep at night, 11+ hours plus1.5 to 1.75 hour nap. That sounds good to me! And your intervals between wakeup and sleeptimes also look good. I would just start by shifting both their nap and sleep time forward an hour with the time change so they're in bed at 7:30 waking at 6:30 and napping from 12:30 or 1 oclock until 2:30.
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Hi...Thank you so much for the quick response. Sounds like a plan to me. It will help that DH will be home to help me out. It gets hard when they are fussy and tired to keep 2 of them awake even just 15 minutes later. I will let you know how it turns out. Wish me luck!
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I just found this posting and I was happy to read what people had to say. We are going through the 2-1 nap ( approx. 15 months ) and sometimes it goes well 11:30/12:00-2pm (2 hours) and sometimes not so great 40 min. I am going to try the early to bed thing. His usually time to bed it 7-7:30 and he (knock on wood) never puts up a fight (it's wierd the way he likes going to bed at night but hates going for a nap??) anyways, I'm going to try the 6:30 bedtime and 7 at the latest and see if I can get rid of this 4:30-6:15 waking (the last 2-3 weeks) and see if it will extend the nap. I am really afraid as others have said that it will shift his whole time clock and instead of getting up for the day at 6:30 - which we consider good - it will be earlier?? I guess though if he is already night waking at 4:30 upset I should try it - right? What do you think?
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The early to bed worked really well for us during the transition to one nap because dd was sooo overtired. But once she caught up on her sleep we kind of stalled for a while with 5:30 wake ups and 12:30 naps . I think it's important during the transition to try to early bedtime--so I'd start with 1/2 hour earlier if you're nervous--and see how it goes.
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I'm going to give the early bedtime a try with my 12mth old tonight. But like Imsmom I did this with my ds at the same age and while it definitely helped him catch up on much needed sleep, it didn't shift the early waking. It was definitely worth doing though because it meant I had a happier child during the day who started taking his nap easily. As we sorted out the sleep deficit I was then able to shift bedtime back to 7pm as the early waking didn't stop at that time. In fact only in the last 6mths (he's now almost 3) has he started sleeping in - probably due to going from 1 to no naps.
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YEAH!!
Ok, so we put our lo (14.5 months) to bed last night at 6:55pm instread of his usual 7:30-8pm bedtime. I must say that I didn't think he was as ready for bed as he normally was. He put up more of a fight (15 min.) compared to his 2-3 min. settle down but IT WORKED!!!! Yeah I'm so happy :) He slept right through the night until 6:40am this morning and he woke up happy and playing in his crib - that hasn't happened in a long time. When I went in to get him after 10 min. he was so delightful - not the normal crying. We will see if the whole nap thing goes better today. We are still working on the 2-1 nap starting at 11:30/12. I'm not home today but my husband is going to call me to tell me how it's going. I just feel so much better knowing that putting him to bed that 20/30 min. earlier did make a difference. I really hope that it will work again tonight and for awhile. It's like I woke up a different person, not worrying about him when I left in the morning was a real treat! I must say that he didn't even really eat dinner last night and only had a small snack before bed. I thought for sure this was going to make him really hungry through the night but obviously not :) :) :)
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I'm so glad he got a good night sleep--and you too! I'd keep the early bedtime and slowly keep pushing back the nap--maybe 15 minutes every 3 days. Once you get close to 12:30 you can liely start pushing the bedtime back to 7:30 as well. Good Luck!
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So the sleeping through the night was great but I just got the phone call that the nap was terrible. He was so tired after his early lunch 11am, that he went to his crib at 11:30 (fine) but he only slept for 20 min. and woke up screaming. My husband went into his room and put him back down and stayed with him putting his hand on his back and patting and shsh him. I guess he finally went to sleep and was out/snoring so my husband quietly left (I guess it took 10 min. to go to sleep and he was sleeping for 15 min.). By the time my husband walked down the stairs, he woke up ??? After constant efforts of pd by my husband after this, and then he traded off with my mother who is over helping out today (she would go in and do pd), my mom said it turned into a game where my son thought it was funny. This went on for some time so she left the room and he just played until the 1.5 hour mark when they decided to take him out of the crib. He is now happy playing but I know he will be tired later in the afternoon. What do we do - another nap, early to bed. What do you think we are doing wrong with the nap thing? It was 20 min. of sleep - how could he just wake up??? Any ideas?
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I'm still of the opinion - and maybe it is wrong - that he doesn't know how to get himself back to sleep after a sleep cycle. Henry did that for a long time but his sleep cycles were 40 minutes, not 20. It sounds to me like your husband and mother handled it very well - keep it up and eventually he'll sleep longer at naps.
I would do an early bedtime again. At least that way if he's not getting the sleep he needs during the day he'll make up for some of it at night.
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Likewise would stick with the PD and early bedtime but you may want to try moving the nap 15 minutes earlier just to see if that helps.
alternatively you could try stand n there for the whole 40 + minutes to see if he can get a longer nap on the theory that it's going to be a lot easier to train him to extend his naps if he is not so overtired. I know it sounds a bit crazy but when my dd went down to one nap she would be so overtired she often couldn't get to sleep or would wake at least2x at night and be awake for hours. The early bedtime definitely helpe but for a few nights I did stand with my hand on her getting hr down and when she woke at night. I found she settled much more quiclky ie. in 45 minutes to 1 hour as opposed to 2+ hours! I only did it for a few nights just to get over the worst of the overtiredness.
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Thank you for your advice.
I do agree that we need to keep it up and I do realize (Henrysmama) that you did say this before and I am listenting. It's just so difficult when you are working with 2 other people and I am not there (I hate not being there). We are going to keep trying and I'm hoping my husband will stay in there the whole time tomorrow for when he stirs at the 20 min. mark. He was ready to go in today before the stir at 40min. but now today he stirred at 20 min. He used to be 40 min. on the button but now it's the 20 min. mark. This does make sense as the sleep cycle is in 20 min. intervals it's just he wasn't that prepared.
What do I tell them to do when my son starts to think the pd is a game? I guess today he was really laughing and carrying on. When my mom would go to put him down he would flop down and laugh?
Thanks again :)
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I'm no expert on PD, but Harrison jumps up and down a few times now before he goes to sleep at night (during the day, sleeps in his pram - couldn't be battling all the time lol)
I let him get all the way up, lay him down, no eye contact, no speaking, no patting, then go and sit back down with a book. To begin with he thought it was a game, now although he still does it a few times before he settles - it's like he can't help himself - he doesn't treat it like a game anymore, and soon settles down.
Just be neutral - really hard - I even shouted once or twice at the beginning - but it does work gradually. I found it helped to think that for whatever reason it is almost a reflex action - they are so tired and they still jump up!
HTH.
Justine
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Henry thought pd was a game which made me very upset. I was trying to teach him to go to sleep on his own and he would laugh and play. That's why I ended up doing walk out/walk in. I didn't necessarily want to - I didn't have any choice. If I continued with pd, he would not have gone to sleep because he was playing and I would have ended up even more mad that I already was.
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That's what I'm afraid is that he will see pd as a game. Henrysmama - could you describe how you use walk in/out and how long you wait to walk back in? Do you lay him down, walk out? Go in if he's crying? Lay him down and leave right away again? Could you describe? Thanks :)
Last night we put him down early again - 6:55pm and it only took 15 min. I do have a question though. At night we have never really had issues putting him down. We bring him in, lay him down, he cries for maybe 2 min. (but not a hard cry - just I need to sleep cry), we leave right away and he goes to sleep on his own and sleeps through (last night till 6:40am - GOOD!) But ever since we started putting him down for his nap using the pd technique and pushed his nap from 2-1, putting him to bed at night now takes 15 min. and there is more crying involved before he will go to sleep. It makes me a little mad because we had always been able to just put him to bed at night and leave right away and now it's just not that case. Is this because I'm trying the pd in the day? Do I know start this at night before bed? He never needed it before bed before? What do you think?
Thanks for all the great advice and help with this.
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I'm so glad he slept well for you last night. Early bedtimes are really good for babies!
Walk out/walk in -
Do nap routine, lay him down, tell him night-night, walk out
When he cries - which he will - count 5/10/15 seconds (whatever you're comfortable with)
Walk in
Lay him down
Walk out - I do not stay in the room until Henry calms because then it becomes a game to him AND he just cries that much harder when I walk out. Whether or not you stay in the room until he's calm is up to you.
Count
Walk in
Lay him down
Walk out
Count . . . .
You get the picture. Keep the counting short - 5/10/15 seconds - so its not controlled crying because you're going in often enough and quickly enough so he knows you'll be there when he needs you. If he stops crying during your count but then starts again, start your count over. If he stops crying completely during your count DO NOT GO IN! That was a mistake I made with Henry.
He may be having trouble settling at bedtime because you're trying something new at naps. I would recommend doing whatever it is that you're doing for naps at night, too. That way its consistent and he knows what to expect.
Good luck!
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Thanks - I will try this if pd becomes a game.
I'm going to see how today goes with just pd - My mom has him today. I'm going to call and see how it's going later. I've asked her to try to be in the room before he wakes at the 20 min. mark to see if when he stirs she can just have her hand there ready to reassure him. I do like the idea of not being there though becuase I'm a big believer in letting them settle on their own. We'll see how today goes first.
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... she has been waking sporadically at night and crying alot at bedtime and naps.
i was reading something that Michelle-megsmom sent me and it clearly said that if you're transitioning to one nap and your child ins't getting eough sleep that it will cause early wakings and night wakeups! it said to put them to bed EARLY! even 6-7pm or earlier!
i had been putting meg downa t 7....anyway, i put her to bed at 6pm and she slept until 6:15am this morning. i heard her babbling at 3am but i didnt' need to go in.....sometimes just a difference of 15min to 30min can make the difference of them being overtired or not. you need to do this for 5-7 days as well.
Nicole, I am so glad another sleep mod put me in the direction of this post :) DS is only 7months but I have been battling these early wakings and night wakeups for about a month now and slowly DS has been extending his A time to sometimes over 3hrs :o I posted yestersday becasue I felt it was spiraling out of control.
I too put DS down about 45 -60min earlier for bed last night (DH thought I was mad) he woke at 0430 this morning babbling (30mins), progressing to crying - I went through changed his nappy and left him to resettle, he was up for around 1hr in total - but went back to sleep until 0730 !! of late it has been anywhere between 0545 and 0645. I was so happy ;D
However, if I continued to put him to bed really ealy in the long term I also thing he would move his day earlier and earier (taking into account the 1hr wake up in the middle of the night). He seems to need 11 - 11.5hours.
So my plan is too continue to put him to bead early until it come to a point where he is back to waking consistantly at 7 - 7.30am and I will slowly move his bed time back to roughly what it was. i think it is his long 'A' times causing the problem ??? ???
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hi everybody my little girl is 27 months old we use to put her to bed aronund 6:30 and sleep till 7:30-8 and nap at 11:30 til 1-1:30 and we thought we could leave her up a bit later as the days were light longer and so we put her up after some warm milk at 7:30 sleep around 7:40 ish and wakes several times in the night and its getting really frustrating but in bed till around 8-8:30 and nap at 11:30 til 1 and she does try and fight this a little and advice much appreciated
Leeann
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Basically she only has 3 hours from wake up to her nap, then she's awake for at least 6 hours until she goes to sleep at night.
I would put her to bed earlier - like 7pm - and try her nap a little later - like 12pm.
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thank you i shall try that tonight and let you know how we get on
Leeann
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The early bedtime solved our night wakings right away but we now had to go back to the later bedtime to keep him on track. We were putting our son down (15monoths) as early as 6:15pm and he was sleeping through until 6:30am with no wakings but eventually this back fired and he was waking at 5am. I think it works to get your lo caught up when they miss sleep or are overtired not gettting proper naps - but as soon as this straightened itself out we had to go back to the 7pm bedtime to avoid 5am wake up - he will go from 7pm-6:30am now. I think it must just be a transition time and then back to normal :)
I must say the early bedtime really worked to get him back on schedule at first and when he needs it, I don't hesitate putting him down early.
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I am in tears right now....i'm just so stressed out and at my wits end. i dont' know whats going on. after the time change we were back doing 7:30-7-7:30....and now we're back to 6am wakeups..(only 10.5-11hs at night) and STILL a 1hr nap. she is overtired. IIIIIIIII AM OVERTIRED and completely fet up. it just hit me this mornign and i'm having a complete breakdown. PLEASE don't tell me she only needs 12hrs sleep a day b/c she doesn't. i know my dd and she has always needed LOTS of sleep. before this damn 1nap transition she took 2 x 1.5-2hr naps and 13-14hrs at night. its been 3 months and i just can't take it anymore. wake to sleep hasn't helped. early bedtime isn't helping.....i dont' know what to do? I need suggestions that will work!! HELP Please..
N.
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Hi there,
Don't get upset - I'm going through the same thing - I totally understand. I went back to the 2 naps - my son was not ready and he was getting so so overtired it wasn't fair. Maybe you need just some days with 2 naps. Sometimes trying to extend them to the 1 nap before they are completely ready causes complete overtired and not enough sleep - this is what was happening with my son. We went back to the 2 naps on days that he needed them. Sometimes one was really short and one longer - but he is happy and we are happy. His night sleep also returned to 11 hours sometimes 11.5 hours and not the 10 and wake up unhappy. Just an idea but give her the sleep when she needs it and don't worry about the 1 nap a day. If she's tired in the morning, I would just put her down for the nap. Good luck
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hi ther tried chloe last night going to bed half an early at half six tokk about half an hour to settle but after that didnt hear anythingfrom her til 8 this morning it was great and she went for her nap at 12 and she slept 40 mins extra to the usual hous or so