BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: ptyniu on April 15, 2006, 20:05:02 pm
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Welcome!
My name is Iza , I'm from Poland and I've just found this board. I've read some of the posts and it seems that I have found the right place for me.
I'm a mother of a boy who is now over 16 months old. He had never slept well, but recenty it's been a nightmare, and my patience and my health is stating to wear off.
It's our first child and I think that we have spoiled him too much. It is impossible for him to go to sleep on his own! When he was an infant we used to first rock him in his pram, then we strted carrying him, and it's been like this ever since. He takes two naps during the day, the first just after or before 10 (it depends on when he wakes up at 6, 7 or 8), he sleeps for an hour , or when we rock the pram for 1.5 hours., Then after the lunch at bout 2/3 p.m. for the same lenght of time. Each time he is carried in our arms (mine, my husband, or his mother-who stays with him when we are at work), we dance with him, rock from side to side, sing or murmur, and the when he is aleep put him in the pram, and rock it for some time. Well my spine finds it hard to deal with this routine.
The nights are another story. He managed to go to sleep on his own, when he was lying in our bed , next to me and I was singing to him and he was spending the night in our bed, but he kept waking up 2-3 times for something to drink. Since I tried to teach him to sleep in his own bed, he stared to wake up ather 1-1,5 hour periods, he cries a lot and drinks a lot of tea, but never sleeps properly even in our bed.
I try to keep the daily routine, the meals are at constant times, so the walks. the evening routine is always the same. Warm bath, some hot milkish dish, reading and story telling, lots of cuddling. But I'm exhaused, I've not had a proper night sleep, since he was born. He is a cheerful child, laughs a lot during the day, when he gets tired he gets more hyped, so not puting him to sleep at day is not the option. I feel that we have made a mistake somehere. All my close ones say that I should not worry because kids never sleep. But I have enough!!
If you have managed to read through my post, and have any solutions I would be very grateful. I know that I need to make changes , but I don't know where to start.
iza.
PS. I'm sorry for the spellings I might have made, but it's 10pm here and I'm really tired.
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I just finished reading your post and I'm sad reading it because I can feel your frustration. Have you ever read The Baby Whisperer Books (3 of them I think)? They teach you excellent ways to deal with all kinds of sleep issues.
But what it sounds like to me is that your little guy doesn't know how to go to sleep on his own and he needs you to do this for him. What he needs to learn is how to get to sleep on his own, in his own room (if this is what you want). IF I were you, I would get the books and read them -they realy helped me with my little one who is 15 months and has had some sleep issues as well.
What I would recommend to start though is to start getting him used to his own room and crib. I would always try to get him to sleep in there first (no pram/no parent bed/not in your arms...etc.) Fixing this isn't going to be easy but it is possible. We just went through getting our little one to sleep in his crib for nap times. Before he was sleeping in many different places - espically whichever was easiest and where ever he slept really well - BIG MISTAKE! Now after repeated effort (2 weeks of consistently putting him to bed in his crib at nap time and going in to reassure him that it's ok - it's just nap time), he will get himself to sleep after 5 min. I will do the same thing before every nap - a drink, change diaper, read books, make the room dark, turn on his crib music, lay him down and leave the room- if he's really upset after a few min. I will go in and reassure him, lay him down and leave again . This took some time but now he gets it and will really try to get himself to sleep quickly because he knows I won't pick him up and I won't take him out of the room. There are many strategies suggested in the books but this is what worked really well for me. I do kinda the same at night after dinner but there is a bath there too?
What time does he go to bed? Could you cut out 1 nap and only have 1 half way through the day instead of 2?
Just an idea. I will send some more ideas but there is a start. At night to begin you might have to sleep with him in his room on a little bed on the floor to get him used to sleeping in his room (also recommended in the book). Good luck, I will write again.
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Thanks for your replay! The real problem with me is that I am over protective and I all the time worry that something will happen to him. I couldn't breastfeed , and till this day I am full of guilt, and try to make it up to him somehow.
My son goes to sleep beteween 8 and 9 p.m. He has his bath at about 7 p.m. Then we read books. I tried giving him just one nap three days ago. he slept from 12 till almost 3 p.m. And wokke up so angry, and cranky. Besides it's now after 10, and he is too tired to keep him awake any longer(he woke up at 7).
Tooday he slept in his bed from 8:30 p.m. to 5 a.m. he firt woke up at about 12, got some tea, and went to sleep again, and from theat piont he started waking after 1,5hours. The routine continued. at about 5 his diper was soo full , that he was all wet, I changed hm, and he went to sleep in our bed.
I've browsed through the first T. Hogg's book. You say there are three. Do you think I should read all of them?
Happy Easter!
Iza.
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Maybe it will be easier to help you if you post a daily routine? Like what he eats and when and when he sleeps and how long and what the nap time ritual is? Also... have you got a hubby or anyone who can maybe take over for just one night? A good nights sleep will make the world look much brighter!
8 or 9 also sounds a bit late to me, maybe he is overtired by then? How about aming for 7.30?
Big hugs to you and your little Dziecko
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Dont' feel guilty about not breastfeeding him. I went through the same guilt - I tried to BF for 8 weeks and had to give it up due to multiple infections and engorgement. I felt guilty at first as well but you have to remember that you are not hurting your son, rather you are just trying to help him establish good sleeping habits. The sooner you put aside the guilt and stop feeling badly it will be easier.
After reading your reply, there is the first Baby Whisperer, The Baby Whisperer for Toddlers and The Baby Whisperer solves all your problems (this is the one I just bought and I have really found some stuff useful in it because my son is also 15 months old and I needed to know what to do know, not what I should have done 14 months ago. Don't we all wish we could turn back the clock sometimes (espically with our first baby :) )
I would suggest that your son maybe needs an earlier bedtime so that he is getting more sleep through the night - say 7-7:30 bedtime. It is recommended that they get 11-13 hours a night at this age. My son is a regular 11. Then they should be having 1 nap a day somewhere between 1.5-3 hours. I'm lucky to get 1.5 hours but we are still working on this. I was finding the same thing with my son - he was getting really tired shortly after he woke up in the morning and I thought he needed this morning nap but what I didn't realize that putting him to bed just a little earlier would give him that extra sleep and then he is able to make it to 11:30 for the 1 nap. Somedays he is more tired and I fight for 11am nap but earlier to bed means happy in the morning and you aren't running into the 2 naps (which sometimes they sleep too much) and then don't want to go to bed early. These are just ideas of what I went through.
When he wakes in the night - it sounds like you always go in to reassure him (good - so do I). But do you stay? It sounds like you give him a drink and then he gets a wet diaper?? Does he need this drink? I was doing the same, and then we ran into soggy diapers and waking up again because he leaked through. I would try to get rid of the drink. I would also try not picking him up when you go in - just lay him down and tell him it's still time to sleep. We worked and worked on this and it does work but you have to be the more persistent one. Try not to give in :) We also would leave him to go back to sleep on his own after we layed him down. He is now so used to it, it's not a problem.
You might also want to try to not rock him to sleep, just lay him down and tell him it's sleep time. Before hand do all the great routines you do (read, bath, ...etc.) and do the same for naps (minus the bath). But if he starts getting the idea that he needs to lay down and go to sleep he will get it. Again you have to be the more persistent one or whoever is watching him. My mother also watches my son and we have coordinated a plan that we stick to for nap time - we always do the same thing. Consistency is key :) If has now worked for us.
I really think that you can still teach your son good sleep habits but I know how hard it is. I went though this as well but the hard work is so well worth it.
Let me know how your start goes?
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Hi!
I've just ordered two Tracy's books. I don't think the third one has already been published in Poland. I'm wainting for them impatiently.
I decided to be brave, and because I started believing that what I do is right, and that it may work, I will try not to give up.
Because it's Easter, the last two days are not the typical ones, but I'm trying to stick to the new ways of putting my son to sleep.
Yesterday he only had one nap, from 10:20 till 12:00, then he ate his lunch , and we went to my parents. There were so many attractions that he didin't even have time to think about beeing tired. When we came home (at about 5 pm), he was given his bath ,and then ate his supper. We went into his room for sleep, at 7, and he was asleep by 7:30. I didn't rock him, danced wit him. I just put him in his bed, said it was time to sleep. Sung one song. I was picking him, up , kissing in the forhead, and again putting down. At one point he gat angry, and started to hit the bed with his head (that's what he does, fortunately less frequently now-I think we found a way how to avoid this). Then I left the room, and came back after 10 seconds picked him up, kissed, and put him back. He didn't cry a lot. and fell asleep. He woke up a couple of times(there was a rather loud party next door), then I just put him down, and he fell asleep again instantly. However, at midnight he drunk quite a lot, and at 2 he was all wet, so I had to change him, then he was all awake, and ended up sleeping with us again. He woke up couple of times , and got up at 8.
Before I read your post , I already decided that I'm not going to give him any drink this night. We got him used to this drinking, it was simply easier to give him a bottle with tea, than to rock him. Now we have to take it back! (It's hard to be a parent for the first time)
Today, because he got up so late. We went to my husbands parents at 10nish, and came back home before 1 pm. He was pretty tired, I followed the routine , and he fell asleep after 20 minutes, however, this time he rather cried a lot, got all hot, so I gave him something to drink. He fell asleep in his bed, and slept for 1,5 hours. He woke up angry ( I think that this was too late for him.) But now after he ate his dinner, he is just a little cranky.
We'll see, how things will go this evening. I think that you may be right as to the time when I should put him to sleep, but what about his nap time. If he wakes up at 8 , like today, or at 6 (that's when we wake up on our working day) should the nap time stay fixed. I keep the fixed times of his meals. He eats his dinner before midday.
It's great to know that there is someone who has been throught the same (or almost the same) , and can help. I find it hard to find suppord in both my mum, or my mum-in-law , they say that both my husband and I slept badly till the age of 3, (I had to be rocked in pram, even when I was too big for it). My husband , however, seem to be accepting the new idea, and willing to help. I can see the amazement in his eyes when I came out of the room, and say that our child is fast asleep in his bed, and that I didn't rock him in my arms.
Thanks again for your support.
I'll write tomorrow, on how the night's gone.
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Good for you for following a routine to get him to bed and to sleep on his own with no rocking :) That is the first step for sure because eventually you will beable to just take him into his room and lay him down for his nap/bed. It's probably a great thing that he went to bed so early because that will help with the routine as well. I found that when we used to take our son to bed with us some nights, he would wake at different times in the morning as well and this would definitly change his daily routine. It would be a good idea to try to get him to always stay in his own crib at night time. Like I said, I know it's going to be hard to not give him anything to drink in the night but look at the benefits - if you don't, he won't wake up wet and might sleep longer. Just try when he wakes in the night to always do the same thing. Go in, reassure him that it's still night time and just time to go back to sleep, then leave - if he needs you to come back in, then go and go back out again. This way he gets used to staying in his bed all night long and waking at the same time every morning. My son will sleep from 7pm till 6am. WE are trying to switch him to one nap at 11/11:30 - 1/2pm but this has been rocky. I don't think he is ready yet so a lot of days he has 2 naps. 1 at 9:30/10 and the other at 1:30/2 - both naps together total about 2 hours of sleep in the day.
MY sons's routine is this
6am-wake
7am - breakfast
9:30/10 - nap 1
12:30 - lunch
1:30/2 - nap 2
5 pm - dinner
5:45/6 - bath and books
7pm - bed
If he wakes later in the morning say 7:30/8am and has not woke up in the night then he can make it for 1 nap at 11:30 - 1:30 (hopefully). If your son wakes in the night and is losing lots of sleep this is why he is probably needing 2 long naps. I would really work on the sleeping all night in his own bed. Trust me I know that it is easeir to give him a drink and take him to bed with you - we did it too, but it only got worse and worse. He will eventually learn to sleep all night in his own bed, mine did. It just takes time and consistency.
My mother in law has told me that my husband was a terrible sleeper as well but then she went on to tell me that she rocked him to sleep until he was 2 and then sat with him every night to go to sleep probably until the age of 5. I truely feel that we as parents instill sleep habits/behaviour. I know now that I did things that Tracey calls accidental parenting but I am trying really hard to help my son develop better habits. MY mother said that all of us (4 kids) slept well with the occasional wake - but she would lay us down to sleep and let us figure it out :) Every parent is different and there is no wrong way - it's just the way you are comfortable with and what you can live with.
Let me know how tonight goes for you.
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Hi! I just have found some time to write. I struck me, that I was so tired writing that first post that I gave the wrong age of my son. He is not 16 months yet. he will be at the 3rd of May. I have no idea how I could have made such a mistake.
Last night wasn't the great one. Or boy had some stomach problems (he has them quite often), but bedsides that, he fell asleep after 20 minutes, in his own bed, so he was asleep at 7:40 pm.Because of his stomach problems he finally eneded up in our bed, and I managed to cut down the amount of tea he drunk. Woke up at 7 today. Was full of energy. I had to go to work for a short time, came back at 11 am. He was laughing and running around the house. At 11:30 he ate his lunch. And we went to change his diaper, while doing this I strted telling him the story. Before doing so I also closed the blinds, and put his sleeping music on. He was asleep at 12:20. I didn't have to put him down to many times. He didn't get angry.He was crawling around the crib, taking to himself, and just fell asleep. I try not to look at him, not to have any eye contact with him-is that correct- I think I saw it somewhere. He slept till 13:40. Woke up happy (unlike yesterday, I think the nap then was too late). He wasn't moddy at all today, and didn't have any tantrums. We followed the evenig routine, and he was asleep afer 15 minutes, at 7:20. Since then he already woke up one time, but I just came in, put him down, and he went back to sleep imediately. Oh and I switched the dinner time today, from 3:30-4:00 to 2:30-3:00. Because he was hungry when he woke up. Tororrow I will also try and swith the lunch time. to maybe 30 minutes , ar at least a quarter earlier.
It will be a hard day tomorrow, because I won't be home for his nap time, and I also won't be able to put him to nap on Thursday. I will have to talk with my mother-in-law.We'll see how the things will go on. If she doesn't manage (or doen't want to) to put him to sleep in a new way, is it ok to stick to this routine only on days when I'm around for his nap (for some time at least), and concetrate on the evening routine for start.
All the best.
iza.
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Good for you it sounds like you are making some progress. If your mother-in-law is not likely to stick with the new way of putting your son down it's probably better in my opinion that she stick with the old way. Obviously it would be best if she did it the new way and stuck with it but if she doesn't believe in it she will probably give in to him and hold him.
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Wow that's grea! I hope you can straighten it out - good for you for making such an effort :)
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Henry was rocked to sleep for a LONG time at day care after I sleep trained him at home.
It would be ideal for both of you to use the same method but it is okay for your mother-in-law to use one method and you to use another. Toddlers are very smart - he'll figure it out.
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More news from my battle ground . Patrick slept better at night. He finially still ended up in our bed, but drunk far less tea than usulall. My maother-in-law tried to stick to the new routine (which she said is harder for her, then the previous one-since she cannot bear my son crying, she says she is heartbroken). He fell asleep in his bed, she says that it didn't take long (was already asleep before noon) (he got up at 6:30, as I did), however after an hour of sleeping he got all wet (wrongly put diaper), and he had to be changed and then rocked to sleep in his pram, where he slept till 2 pm. he got up happy. It was the last Wednesday when I had to work till late. I got back home at 5:40, gave him his bath, he ate supper, and we managed to go to bed at 7:30 (a little too late), however, he managed to fell asleep in his bed, I didn't take him out of it even once, and while he was trying to find the right spot in bed, he was just looking up at me to see if I was there, and putting his head down again. He was asleep by 7:45. I'm really impressed.
The thing we have a problem with , and which wakes up him at night, is his stomach. It gathers a lot of gases and it's hard for him to get rid of them.(I don't know a right word for it in English-flatulence?). Our pedaitrician gave us different medicine for it, but it doen't seem to be working, and only making it worse. I already made an appointment to a a different doctor, for next Wednesday, and we'll see.
Tank you all for your advice and priceless suport! I think we can make it work!
Iza.
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My mother watches my son most days for me as well and I know that some things will be a little different but we always try to keep it the same. I keep telling her that consistency is better for him. :)My mom hates to see him cry too - she thinks it's so hard. I keep telling her that we are just trying to help him develop better sleep habits and that we are not hurting him or making him feel badly on purpose.
As for the gas - I would maybe check with another doctor or another medicine. My son had gas when he was smaller but it has gone now. Could it be from his foood/drink?? Is he on milk - is it lactose??
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Hi!
First, we're making small progress each day. My mum-in-law tries her best to put him to sleep in his bed (as so she says). Today it was me who put him for his nap, and he slept 2 hours!! Without waking up, crying. He never slept that long without rocking. And all that to children paing outside, Cars driving off, and even two ambulances (we live in the center of the city). It's strange, when I think what things looked like a week ago, and now, it's a huge difference. I'm not so overtired anymore, and my back stopped hurting. What is more, my son, spend 40 minutes in his pram outside (well he was carried everywhere before, becaused he refused to sit there for more than 5 minutes, or at all. And today we even managed to do some shopping.
As to his gas problems, we had lactose suspected. He was given some medicine, and banned from any diary products for some time, however the milk stayed. It's not the ordinary milk that adults drink, it's special formula milk for kids under 3 years old. Today I didn't give it to him either. He refused to drink it from the bottle when he was 9 months old, and the only way he would eat it, was when it was served to him by spoon, as a rice and fruit porridge( is that what it is in English) and only for breaksfast and supper. So today instead of milk I used water. We'll see how it goes.
I received Tracy's books today , and am reading a lot. Why didn't I do that a year ago? I hope I will be able to fix some mistakes I made, and not to make any more serious ones.
All the best to all of you and your little ones!
Iza and Patrick
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That's so great! Isn't it nice when you see progess made. I hope it will only get better for you all. :)
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It's been a week since my first post. We're making progress each day, but I think the most important thing for me is that I'm understanding my child better. I'm not serving him milk anymore and it seem that his stomach problems are slowly going away. We have an appointment to se homeopathy doctor on Wednesday, and see how it will work.
We're going to remowe the pram from our appartment!! Hurra!! He hasn't slept in it for the whole week, so it seems it is redundant!
Bye for now. I'll write when we'll rach some new breakthrough. Till then!!