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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: sadiebean on May 28, 2006, 05:24:21 am
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Yet again, I am in need of help.
After finally conquering naps, night wakings, and early wakings... my 12-mos-old is screaming at every bedtime. EVERY bedtime. Which these days is 10:30-11pm after multiple attempts. And wakes up in the middle of the night screaming as well -- he has NEVER done that!
Important details:
1. He was sick for 2 weeks with successive viruses, feeling better as of a couple of days ago.
2. We left him to cry in his crib several times this past week, going in and reassuring him, or sitting next to him. I believe this has made it worse (at his naptime a few times he would just talk and play and go to sleep...I stupidly thought maybe he would do that...) Instead, he screams until snot runs down his poor little nose.
2. He is not near to walking, so that's not it -- he has gross motor delays as he has spina bifida and hypotonia, so walking won't be for several months yet. However...
3. He just recently learned (a month or so ago) to sit himself up on his own from lying down. And now does so in bed.
Previously, I would snuggle him on his side, like a bug in a rug, and he would fall asleep pretty easily. Now, putting him on his side results in an immediate sit up. Or rolling to his belly. (Same if I put him on his back, which he doesn't like -- side, sit/belly.) He now sleeps on his belly for the first time, but he does not yet roll from belly to back.
Right now, at 1:30am, he's screaming in my husband's arms on and off, and has been awake an hour. I've already given him a small bottle and thought I had him resettled once. No go.
So. Could it be night terrors?? Seperation anxiety?? Either/both made worse by crying in his crib?
Is it just a phase he needs to work through until he gets comfortable with sleeping on his belly? Made worse by being sick?
All of the above?
I plan on playing in his room tomorrow a bunch, to try to help him make friends again w/his crib.
But beyond that, do I just get him out of his crib (AND his room -- he wails until you leave his room, and then still afterwards) day or night, to "undo" or alleviate the anxiety? Do I continue to console him/get him to sleep w/a bottle, since it's the ONLY thing that works? Good habits be dam*ed?
And worry later about reestablishing good habits once the screaming episodes stop?
I am losing it. I can't stand being screamed at for hours at a time every day. And I am out of ideas.
Any and all help would be appreciated.
thank you,
Ann
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Hi Ann
We had a very similar situation to you - I was also at a loss as to why my DS was crying (for up to 2 hours) at bedtime. I still don't know why - but it is better now (although still not great). I will deal only with bedtime at night (because for us naps are still horrible - haven't fixed them yet). This is basically what we did:
I stayed with my DS from when we entered his room until he fell asleep. I still stay in the room with him most of the time (although sometimes now I can leave the room - I gauge it on how he is managing).
We have a consistent routine so that DS knows what is coming next. We do bath, dress for bed, into bedroom, last feed, then books, into bed, another book, then music on, lights out.
I then sit right beside the cot. I put my head down and close my eyes but I am right there if he needs me. When he cries and reaches out to me, I try to calm him while in his cot by patting/shhing or quietly talking or singing. If he is really upset or not settling, I might pick him up and cuddle him. As a modified PUPD I don't put him down again straight away. I hold him until he is COMPLETELY calm - BUT NOT ASLEEP - and put him back into his bed. I stay with him and do this for as long as is necessary. Some nights it seems that he just needs to cry - if he is not holding out his arms to me then I just let him be - but I stay there beside him the whole time. This is probably a bit easier for me to know when he wants me or not because he stands at the side of the cot reaching out to me but I'm guessing your LO can hold out his arms to you when he wants you to pick him up??
The other key thing for me (I don't know if you are the same) is to not get upset or frustrated about having to be in a room with a crying baby. I used to get so uptight and of course DS would pick up on that and it would upset him more. Now I try to stay CALM CALM CALM by using deep breathing and relaxing my muscles as I sit in the room with him.
I think the key is staying with your LO as long as he needs it. He needs to rebuild trust that you will stay there with him and be there with him. If my DS is upset I will whisper to him "I'm right here. I'll stay here with you until you fall asleep".
I HTH even just a little. Let me know or PM me if you have any questions.
Good luck
Jo
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Thanks Jo!
I wasn't expecting any magic cure -- just being affirmed that it is likely seperation anxiety helps. Last night after I wrote, I turned the hall light on the way to his room on (so he could see everything). Then I brought his favorite stuffed animal friends and put them one by one in the crib, making like it was play. He finally WANTED to get in the crib!
So we played together in their a while. As soon as he wanted to get out, he was out, and we had a bottle of water and eventually fell asleep at 2:30am.
I am hoping this is the beginning of baby steps towards a happy relationship with his crib. ::) So that I can actually get him IN there before staying there while he falls asleep.
And yes... calm is key... I have really needed to rely on my husband, who is as calm and patient as they come, to my impatience and fire.
Oh -- and yes, he's QUITE mastered putting his arms up for me to get him LOL. ;) No question on that score when he wants up.
Thanks and I'll let you know how we progress! Good luck on your nap times!!
Ann
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Hi Ann
Well done on last night. A pity that it took until 2.30am though to get him to sleep! What time did you start bedtime? What is your day time routine like?
Even on our very worst nights, with 2 hours or so of crying at bedtime - our latest falling asleep time has been about 9.30pm.
I also found that adding stuffed toys to the cot helped - Fraser now has 4 teddies and a couple of blankets in the cot with him. Sometimes he also wants a pillow. Luca sounds a lot like him - he wants a nice cozy bed to hop into.
Good luck! I look forward to hearing how you get on.
Jo
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Hi Jo and Ann ;D
Things turned upside down here also when Harrison turned 1yr. I was totally shocked as sleeps and naps had been going well for quite a while. I think in our case it is a mixture of developmental, sep anxiety and maybe nightmares or the sensation of falling. So much is happening for them at this age it all gets too much to process.
We too have a bedtime routine including bath, book, bottle then bed and either I or DH will sit with Harrison without eye contact until he either seems to be alright on his own or until he is asleep. Many times we have been in and out but he is always reassured we are right there if he needs us.
About 6 weeks since this all started things are much improved with only an occassional 'bad' night so my fingers are crossed we are on our way to the next milestone.
Jo I also do the deep breathing and try to relax. I cope much better being with H while he is upset now but it used to totally do my head in. I also think sometimes H needs to cry to either shut out the world or process all the things going on in his busy days.
Hang in there!
Cas
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This is very comforting to hear, and I HAVE to believe it is developmental. Of all the sleep issues we've dealt with never has this happened before!
(To clarify, 2;30am was when we got Luca back to sleep after he awoke at 12:30am, not his bedtime that night -- oh I would have died! ;))
His schedule was:
5:30-6:00 Wakes up, gets small bottle of milk. Falls back to sleep. (only way we solved the early waking which was torturing all of us.)
8:00 Awake. Breakfast.
12:00 Lunch
12:30-1 Asleep for nap. 1hr30min to 2hrs.
Snack of a milk bottle when he awakes.
5:00 Dinner.
Bath. Books.
7:30 Bottle.
8:00 Asleep.
Yesterday I did the same thing (playing in crib w/stuffed animals) for nap and bedtime, and it worked beautifully! He was asleep by 8:20.
Night wakings were not still not good -- Awake from 10 to 11pm, then from 4am to 5:45am. It took 7 bottles (or parts of bottles w/him falling asleep then waking 3 minutes later for the rest).
We have not fed Luca at night for more than 3months now (and even then it was a once a night quick nursing). And we did everything we could think of this past week to get him back to sleep w/o the bottle. But in the end, it is the only thing that is working (and only sometimes.) I am so afraid we are creating terrible habits, but the alternative is him screaming and screaming.
I believe (hope!) he'll eventually get used to waking on his belly in the middle of the night. In the meantime I pray he doesn't learn to wake up just for the bottle. At least the wake-ups have been all over the place so there's not pattern of habit emerging.
What did you ladies do when Harrison and Fraser awoke in the night? Were they difficult to get back to sleep?
And do you think night terrors have any play in this?
I am considering putting a mattress in his room so I can get to him just as soon as he stirs -- maybe he'll learn to fall back asleep more easily and feel safer...???
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I just posted a problem very sinilar to this before I saw yours. I'm having a very similar experience but DS is only 10 months. He screams and screams. It can start anytime and if we try calm him he stiffens his body with temper and we eventually have to give him bottle. He was sick for week but is better for a week. He is also on the verge of walking. But the last 2 nights he has been screaming going down to bed and bedtime is getting later. Tonight he didn't go down til 10.30 and even then with an extra bottle. This is really getting me down as I'm afraid this will become a habit and I am shattered.
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Hi Ann
Yes it is hard and very frustrating. When all these night wakings started for us I or dh would go to him the moment his cry became distressed usually calm him by PU, cuddles reassuring words or hand on him. This sometimes took ages. Other times when he was still upset I would just lie on his floor with a pillow and blanket until he went to sleep. Some nights H would be awake for several hours on and off. I too thought in his case it could be night terrors.
As I mentioned things are improving slowly but we never changed how we dealt with his wake ups. I believe he needed us and now he his coping better without us so much.
It is so damn hard!
Good luck.
Cas
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I am finding it impossible to maintain our method, as he physically refuses to be held unless you leave his bedroom and turn on the light or television in the living room.
So you never fed him a bottle to settle him? This was my instinct (not to feed him). And now, at 8:15 he has already awoken once, been given a second bottle, and is now screaming in his room. My husband is with him. He is hysterical. But everything in me (well, the part that isn't wanting to tear my hair out) says that giving him a THIRD bottle is just a terrible idea. It FEELS wrong, especially for a 1yrold.
When I weaned him at night, it took a week. And we weren't consistent (illness and a thrown back made it hard to endure the 2+ hours of screaming that occurred each night.) Yet after a week or so, one he just slept thru till 5:30am. I wonder if we just need to endure this, and have him pass out -- did Harrison just pass out eventually?
Did Harrison wake crying immediately as Luca does?
What did you do for those time when he could not be consoled (assuming there were those times) -- did you allow him to become hysterical in his crib and just stay with him reassuring him? We were up to almost an hour a few times.
Would you go longer if it were Harrison?
How long was the longest time it took for him to settle?
When you lay on the floor w/blanket and pillow, could he see you? How did you let him know you were there? Luca will pull down the side of his bumper and push his head into the side of the crib... it is heartbreaking.
Luca has a serious surgery June 26... part of me wonders if we don't just roll with this till then, as it will likely put us right back to square one. But one thing I know is that we're doign him no favors by letting him cry for a spell and THEN still giving him a bottle. We need a game plan.
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Sadiebean...
I was just reading over this thread and wanted to wish your lo good luck and prayers for his surgery!
:) Shelby
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In all this frustration, you just made my evening. Thanks Shelby :)
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No problem...I wish I had some helpful advice. I am sure I will have some of the same issues when my dd gets to that age!
Good luck and hopefully everything will smooth out soon!! ;)
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Hi Ann
I will try to answer some of your questions but totally understand that each lo is different and what worked for H may not come close to improving your situation. Firstly we did not have an operation coming up like you guys do. I can not imagine how hard this is.
Most of Harrisons wake up's were later in the evening say 6-7 hrs after bedtime or he would take ages to settle on being put down.
When H was hysterical we did PU/PD, patted or if I felt it could be pain (I have read los can have muscle spasms as their legs are getting stronger) I would give pain relief.
H was awake one night for almost 4hrs with us with him most of it but usually under 1hr.
H does not have bumpers so could see us on the floor when he needed to check if we were there. He would stand up quite a bit but we would just stay put and he would eventually settle. He definately needed to know we were right there.
H is a good eater during the day, eats all 3 meals, 3 milk feeds and an afternoon snack so I never fed him at night. My instinct told me he could not possibly be hungry as he eats almost as much as I do. I knew the problem had to be something else.
I doubt I am much help here, although I do understand how heart wrenching it is and I hope it improves soon.
Cas
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No, this is a huge help. We did decide to continue giving him a bottle (of water w/a bit of juice) at night, but only because of the surgery wildcard so soon down the road. It has helped alot in the short run, though it is not my idea of a good longterm solution.
However, once that hurdle is past us, assuming he has not learned by then to find a comfie position on his own, it helps to hear that you were willing to allow him to cry for up to 4hrs. As that is what it may take at first for Luca.
I think that a modified PU/PD might also be in order -- leaving the room until he is settled, and returning him to his crib even if he is screaming from one foot in the door in his room. And then up and out and back, all over again.
Thank you so very much for your help!!
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I'm so glad it is not just me! DD has slept well since she was 8 weeks, although we have had nap issues. The last few months have been terrible. This thread has cheered me up no end. Our friends all have (or so it seems) babies who do 12 hours straight with no problems, ever! THis has ruined our holiday a few weeks back as we went with another family and I feel like a failiure. It started when she was 11 months and we can't work out what to do.
I do have a tip for sitting with them while they cry. Wear ear plugs, you can still hear but it is less distressing for you.
juliet
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Ann
It sounds like you have a plan, great, it always seems like a step in the right direction when you know how you will handle the wake ups. Let me know how it goes?
The ear plugs are a good idea Juliet, my dh used to wear them sometimes. We are not failures for having lo's who need us at night. It is hard though when others seem to have angel babies. I now concentrate on my own situation and try not to think about others. I am doing what is best for my family.
I believe persistance pays off and things settle back in time. It took a good couple of frustrating months but with my fingers firmly crossed things are improving.
Cas
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I had a BAD night with dd, we just don't know what to do. I'm too tired to write about it now, am going to rest while she naps. I'm 9 weeks pg and just wondering what on earth I've done as I can't even handle one lo. Just wanted to tell someone how I'm feeling. Hope you had better nights than me. ;)
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Juliet....
HUGS to you sweetie! I know how exhausted you feel just dealing w/ a little one not sleeping (much less being pregnant at the same time!) I hope things smooth out for you! Can you post your schedule and maybe some of us can give you some suggestions that may help?
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Dear Shelliz,
thanks for you kind words. DD slept through last night, so am feeling better. I'm not sleeping well anyway, pregnancy related I think, but that isn't her fault!
I don't think it is a shedule problem, she is on one nap a day after lunch, she sleeps 1 1/2 - 2 hours. Her bedtime is always 7 pm and we have the same routine every night. We thought it was to do with an allgery (to what we don't know - dr isn't being too much help) that causes a runny/congested nose. But i'm not sure that is it. We wondered if it was teething, but apparently not if she no signs of it in the day. Could she get nightmares at her age?
thanks for listening!
juliet
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Juliet, I do think that night terrors can start at this age (anyone else know of this?) based on what I've read. Though I'm not sure that's the same thing as a nightmare; sounds like with terrors they aren't even really awake and you should just let them work through their screaming and flinging themselves. No expert here.
I decided a few nights ago that I AM going to deal with this. A juice bottle isn't even really helping, not if it takes 30+min, and 3-7tries of laying him in his crib hoping he doesn't start screaming b/c he's not completely asleep. Not easy falling asleep after all that.
He hasn't been much improved these past 3 nights, but at least I feel a little more in control of the situation. We have indeed had to take Luca out of his bedroom every night at least once to calm him down. But at least he's ultimately fallen asleep each night in his crib, on his belly (new for him) rather than on the bottle. So, I'm happy.
(Juliet, hang in there!!)
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SandieBean,
thanks for your kind words, I don't think it is as extreme as night terrors, as what I was told about them they are horrific, but I want rule that out. Amber slept through the night last night, that's 2 nights in a row. She took ages to go to sleep, so much for 7pm bedtime, but once we got there....that was it until 7am! I'm so thrilled! ;D don't know why, we didn't do anything differently, but I'm not complaining.
Amber has slept on her belly since she could roll herself over and i think finds it more comforting, hope things improve for you soon. How long have things been like this for you?
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Fantastic that she slept thru!! Luca did as well last night, my fingers are tightly crossed!
It's been bad for just under a month now, with the worst being the past 2-3 weeks. I do think he's getting used to settling on his belly. He rolls back and forth, side to side, just doesn't want to roll onto his back, but I know he can physically... seems to feel like he's falling backward, little Luca quirk. But he doesn't like being on his back anyway.
Let me know how things progress over the next few days for you. Hopefully you are getting a chance to rest!
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Ambersmum, I know that a common cause of chronic congestion in kids is an allergy to milk. Me and my two siblings are all allergic to milk and if we stay away from it, the congestion goes away. Also, my best friend had a child who had chronic ear infections and sinus problems. She switched him to soy and the problem got much better. Is your lo on dairy products? It could definitely cause sleep interruptions....I hate trying to sleep with congestion too. Most people assume that a milk allergy is only tummy related, but it also can cause excess mucous. HTH!
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dd only woke once last night and quickly settled herself, so another success! Hope all was well with you SAndiebean.
Thanks for milk info, gray&ella'smommy, we did take her off milk for 2 weeks but it didn't seem to help the mucus situation.
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Yay for you!
For us, only one wake up as well, and it took less than 10min of crying (and shh/patting) for him to resettle! :D
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Amber was awake 3 times in the night, I think it is too hot for her at the moment. But she settled herself each time.
Hope you had another good night.
love ju
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Somewhere in this madness, it is comforting to know that other moms are going through similar things. This is my first post on the site. I have been struggling with my sleepless lo for almost 10 months. I can count on one hand the number of times she has slept more than 6 hrs.
She is a great baby! Little crying during the day. Great with routine. Sleeps well during nap time. Putting this baby down to sleep is not the problem it is keeping her asleep.
I have tried to justify in my mind over and over all the different excuses we have and reasons she is not sleeping....teething....crawling.....colds.....etc...but it is always the same results: Bed at 8pm.......wake at 1 to usually 4....
We have tried feeding....we have tried PU/PD we have tried crying...motrin...Benadryl....
Is it possible that there are some babies that just do not sleep??????My mother in law says it is the red hair...lol
I am going back to work in 5 weeks.....I am trying to enjoy these last weeks, but the real truth is that have never been so tired in my life, and it is about to get worse....
We want to go on vacation before I go back to work but can't because then no one will get any sleep.....
My 5 year old was the best sleeper from 6 weeks, maybe I am just paying the price....
Another diaper to change!
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Just checking in to see how everyone is making out? Any progress??
Luca is doing much better, so glad we decided to address it. For several bedtimes and wakeups I needed to sit on the floor outside his crib
Ha! Just as I was writing that sentence, he started crying midnap and I had to go by his crib. All better, back to sleep.
But no more screaming at night. Took 2-3 nights for that to end, but well worth it. Now I don't even take him out of his crib, and past 2 nights he's slept thru till his 5-6am bottle.
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Lovemybabygirls.....
How old is your baby? I know 8:00 pm is pretty late for SOME babies. Sometimes an earlier bedtime helps with night wakings. Just a thought. Could you post your baby girl's routine (day and night). If you are looking to get rid of the night wakings...this website has GREAT advice!
P.S. My daughter has reddish hair too! I bet we can both prove our mother-in-laws wrong about their sleep issues! ;D ;D
Welcome!
Shelby
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Hi Sadie,
Glad things are improving for you! We are doing better too, Amber is sleeping through most nights, only woke once in the past week. Her nose is clearer now, no idea why after 6 months of congestion, but I'm not complaining. She is also going to sleep better at bedtime, think it may have helped to have a longer wind down. even her nap is now usually 2 hours without waking up part way through. She was up for 1 hour in the night last night, but that is the first time in quite a few days.
Long may it continue for Amber and Luca both ;D
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Great news!!! :D
I hope the other ladies (and babes) are making headway!