SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: frankiesmom on June 04, 2006, 15:13:19 pm

Post by: frankiesmom on June 04, 2006, 15:13:19 pm
Hi,  ds is 3.5 weeks old, and has been to a GI specialist for reflux.  He started prilosec 2 days ago.  I have written about him before, but have had no improvement so I thought I would provide more info and see if I can please get some help.  I feel like I am messing everything up and am considering stopping bf b/c of the stress. 
I am using the previous post to answer these questions

How old is your child? 3.5 weeks
What’s his/her daily routine? on 3 hour EASY, eats at approximatley 7, 10, 1, 4, 6,  and 8
What’s nap routine? 1.5 to 2 hour naps every 3 hours
How long are naps? 1.5 to 2 hours
What's bedtime routine? Time? 8pm, bf
Do you bottle or breastfed?? both (bottle sometimes at night)
How much? or how long? 15 to 30 minutes at the breast, 1 to 4 ounces of formula. there is a lot of crying with feeding due to reflux
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) one side
How many wakes per night? 4 to 5
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? starts with a cough-like sound, quickly elevates to cry, rooting and  hysterical if not fed.  Then will feed for a few minutes and fall back asleep.  Then will sleep for 1.5 hours and back up with the same thing
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? crying!
What have you tried to settle?? pat/sh in crib, pat/sh while holding, pacifier, but won't take the paci
What do you do for A time and how long is it? mostly diaper and usually is asleep by 1 hour after waking
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? no
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) no
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? no, well maybe bf
Do they have a lovie? no

Okay, so the situation is that ds has reflux.  He has alot of discomfort when feeding, choking, etc. He is mostly bf although we are giving him formula at night sometimes so I can get some sleep.  He does pretty well with the 3 hour EASY during the day and usually will make it to 1.5 hours for his naps.  Sometimes they are only 45 minutes, but often I can get him back to sleep.  He pretty much eats and then we change a diaper and then he is yawning so awake time is very short.  We take him up to his room, close the shades, turn on white noise and pat/ sh with him over the shoulder, put him in his crib and pat/ sh until he is asleep.  We try to put him in awake.  He is on his belly at the advice of the GI specialist, so no swaddle.  He does not take a paci.

He usually has 4 naps a day, although sometimes we are able to cluster feed him if he breaks the last nap into 2 catnaps.  I don't wake him to cluster feed b/c he does not feed well if I do that. 
It seems that by the end of the day, he is feeding for a shorter period of time, so that by the time he goes to bed, he only eats for about 10 minutes.  He is usually in bed by 8 and sometimes is back up in 1.5 hours, sometimes he can make it to a df.  He takes 2 to 3 ounces for a df.  From then on, he is up every 1.5 hours almost to the minute.  He starts with a cough and grunting, we try to pat, sh in the crib, then pick him up if  need be, then he is hysterical.  He will not settle.  We try for 20 minutes sometimes, but he is rooting, and screaming.  If we feed him, he often will eat 1 ounce or less if he is getting a bottle or will bf for 5 minutes (sometimes less) and then fall into a deep sleep that I can't wake him up from.  The cycle continues all night.

So, I think he is snacking and waking for some reason other then hunger (pain, comfort).  I know by feeding him, we are making matters so much worse, but I just don't know what to do.  He is inconsolable when he wakes and the only way we have been able to get him back to sleep is to feed him.  How long can we let him cry if we are holding him and trying to soothe him?  What else can we do to soothe him?

Please, help me if you can.  I am very stressed about this and am getting no sleep and have a 21 month old at home to take care of too!  Thank you so much

Post by: Mum to Ella Rose on June 04, 2006, 17:04:44 pm
Hi Kim, I will try to post more later, only have a minute right now but I just wanted to say quickly you must do what you can until you get the reflux under control. They want to drink so badly because of the pain but it then refluxes and hurts them all over again.  :( The medication hasn't kicked in yet if it's only been two days. It can take up to two weeks but you should see some improvement slowly beginning to happen. I know it's torturous for all of you... but I can promise you it DOES get better and you can sort out the routine then. I know you will get all kinds of wonderful advice with that when he's feeling better. Big big HUGS to you... hang in there!!!

xx Sharon
Post by: frankiesmom on June 04, 2006, 17:23:11 pm
Sharon, thank you so much. Any help you can give me would be so great. 
This is my second reflux baby (lucky me).  The first one was diagnosed so much later b/c the docs kept telling me he was fine and I was a new mom.  So, I did anything to get him to sleep.  He slept on my chest for the first 6 weeks.  I am so afraid of having an accidental parented child again that I am trying to do what is right this time.  It is so frustrating!  I just don't want to start bad habits that I am going to have to correct in the future.

Anyway, thanks for the reply and whenever you have time to get back to me, I would so appreciate it.

Post by: Diegos Mama on June 04, 2006, 17:25:27 pm
My second son had reflux AND milk allergy.  Any milk product consumed either via formula or in my diet worsened his reflux and gave him terrible tummy discomfort.  You may want to visit the food allergy forum to look for more information.  I suspect he may have more than one thing going on.

Post by: Colin Macs Mom on June 04, 2006, 18:34:52 pm
So sorry to hear that things are rough right now Kim. But like Sharon says, it WILL get better. The meds can take more than two days to kcik in, so until then do whatever you can to get both of you through it and as comfortable as possible. We're all here for you!  :-*
Post by: Mum to Ella Rose on June 04, 2006, 19:59:52 pm
Hi again Kim,

Diego's mama has a good point about something else maybe going on... have you looked into that at all? Are his poops okay? I don't have any experience with this but it seems to go hand in hand sometimes with reflux... the whole "immature digestive system" thing.

I find it interesting that he naps okay yet seems to have the problems at night. Does he sleep in his crib for naps and night time? Are you elevating the crib? The coughing sounds like reflux to me. It's coming back up and as I said before a lot of refluxers will over eat to try and soothe the acid.

I wish I had more help for you... :( I can't see anything out of whack, so to speak, but I'm afraid those early days are such a blur for me now. All I can say is we have tried to follow BW from day 1. Ella was such a horrible refluxer she had failure to thrive (despite how much she wanted to eat) and ended up in hospital a few times. We just did what we could until we got it under control. We did what it sounds like you are doing... trying to follow EASY as best as possible and trying not to create too many bad habits like feeding to sleep. Sometimes this for us was just stroking her face if she started to sleep whilst feeding and then putting her down when her eyes popped open again. Know what I mean? but really... at this point you have to do what you can. I also remember pacing the floor at all hours of the night and day with Ella wailing and me crying, holding hair dryers up by her head for white noise, falling asleep in a chair with her trying to keep her upright... blargh, it's just so tough at this point. At least your lo is getting some rest during the day! Doesn't help you much at the moment but still a good thing.

Does pat/sh work for you? We modified it to a slow rub up the back to try and not aggravate the reflux as much. Is there any way you and dh can trade off nights? Can you express if he'll take a bottle? Or get a family member or friend in to give you some relief? It's so hard I can't imagine with two... I found it difficult to rest even when given the opportunity as my heart was too broken hearing my child in pain. But it is SO important! You can't give if you don't take care of yourself.

We have a wonderful (still refluxing  ::) ) 1 1/2 year old now who sleeps and eats like a champ and it's all due to BW. It took some time to get on track but it did work once she was no longer in so much pain. I really believe things will get better for you when the meds kick in. It's just trying to hang in there until they do. And it probably seems like an eternity now but if you don't see any improvement within a few weeks (or if things get worse) I'd go back to the doctor.

Big {hugs} again. Please feel free to pm me too if you need to just talk or vent about it...

Sorry so rambly! Wish I could do more...

xx Sharon
Post by: frankiesmom on June 05, 2006, 00:40:20 am
Thank you everyone for the support.  I kind of knew all of this already, just hoping I wasn't missing anything.  Like I said, I have been through this before, I was just hoping to get on top of this one earlier before it was too much of a night mare.
Sharon, to answer your questions, he is in his crib for naps and at night. I think he is basically doing the same thing at night that he is during the day, which is sleeping for 1.5 hours at a time (sometimes 45 minutes). 
His poops are okay.  I have been trying to watch my dairy intake but he is getting formula once or twice a day.  I just can't pump.  I just don't have the time with my other lo.  If I were to do that, I would probably just bf at the other feeding, that would be easier for me.  The GI doc said that if he had a milk allergy, he would probably have blood or mucus in his stool which he doesn't, but I may have to rule that out anyway.
He really has only had 5 doses of prilosec but the doc said I should see some improvement by tomorrow.  It seems to be the consensus that the meds have taken most of your lo's longer so I will see how he does this week. 
Pat/sh does work for us, but not when he is hysterical at night.  I was wonmdering about patting him b/c Tracy says not to pat him when he is burped, so is it okay to pat him to calm him.  It really is the only thing that works right now. 

Thanks again for everyone's support.  I also have a 22 month old refluxer who was sleeping through the night at 4 months and is a beautiful wonderful, healthy little boy who has an unbelievable appetite.  I can rationalize all of these things and tell myself it will all work out, but you know how it is when you are in the thick of things, you kind of forget that it will get better!

Thank you.
Post by: Kimberly® on June 05, 2006, 01:26:21 am
Kim (nice name btw  ;D)

I agree with the advice of PP I'll leave a more indept reply tomorrow when I have a little more time. I'm on my way out at the moment.
Keep up with the meds, swaddle well, and make sure your LO is laying flat. Use a car seat untill things settle then you you can worry about weaning that. Its possible he has an intolerance to milk, not an allergy or the formula may be making it worse. Some formula's are worse for reflux then others. Have you tried a thickend formula at all?

Post by: kim&savannah on June 05, 2006, 02:51:05 am
Kim~  Hey--sounds like you've gotten some good advice on here and hopefully it will just take a little bit longer for the meds to work.

One thing--about the milk allergy/intolerance--you won't necessarily notice blood or mucus.  Savannah didn't have either, but most definately had the Milk/Soy Protein Intolerance.  You might want to get a can of one of the non-milk formulas to try just to see if that helps, along with you cutting out all dairy.  Its hard, but just to ease your mind that this isn't part of the problem.

If you have any other questions about that, you know where to find me  :)

Post by: Diegos Mama on June 06, 2006, 16:11:40 pm
Wanted to add that Emilio didn't have bloody or mucousy stools either.  But, to this day, at two years old, if he consumes milk he'll spit up into his mouth (only now he just swallows it again  ;D  ) How's that for a visual?  The milk intolerance made his reflux a thousand times worse and he was incredibly sensitive.