BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: sebas on August 17, 2006, 03:24:39 am
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My LO is 13mo wakes up at 4:50am every morning (this is after waking up at around midnight for a midnight snack).
I was thinking that maybe I have contributed to this as when he does wake up at this time for the sake of some sleep I will bring him into bed with me until about 7am, but I really would like him to stay in his bed until wake up time.
I want to try W2S but am unsure when to do it and what to do. Can you please give me some advice. Do I go in 1 hour before his waking time or half an hour? Does he actually have to open his eyes or is just moving around enough to disrupt the cycle?
Please help me as I am desperate to get some continuous sleep until wake up time.
Also, I have decided to try WI/WO but am unsure whether I should wait until he has cut all his molars, or would it be worthwhile starting now?
Thanks for your advice.
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Hi!
First off, my apologies for taking so long to answer you. I had not seen your post until today.
Then, I think I'm gonna need more info to come up with a plan, cause your lo's 450 am waking can be due to many things such as overtiredness or a need of tweaking of schedule. 13 months is such a tough age (it's exactly when i adquired all my sleep training expertise LOL). Molars can disrupt any routine and sleep training method. IF lo's teething badly i'd suggest to hold off sleep training for a couple of weeks, cause in the middle of pain and discomfort, it can be misunderstood as a failure in the techinque and you can read him wrong because of all the upsetting.
Then if you try w2s you should go around 30-45 mins (although an hour is a good mark, but i have found with toddlers that the closer you go to their waking mark, the more chances you have to succeed... it's up to you). You have to just unsettle him (not waking fully) just enough for him to go back to sleep again (quick rubbin' or tickling or moving him gently), just enough for him to start a new sleep cycle. IF you wake him at all you might have trouble making him go back to sleep.
For other wakings it's ok to use wi/wo, only if you feel comfortable with it. All sleep training techniques are described thoroughly in the FAQ section at the top of this board, under a thread called Teaching Independent Sleep. Under that section, there's another thread called Most Common Sleep BUsters where you can find possible reasons for a toddler's wakings. Have a read at it and see if something rings the bell in your case. If so, post your schedule so we can come up with a plan.
Good luck and keep us posted!
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Thanks for your response. In answer to your question, here is what our day looks like:
6:45am - wake & bottle (200ml)
8am - breakfast
10am - bottle (240ml) & nap (usually for 1 to 1h 15m) - or 3hrs & 15min after waking
11-11:30am - wake from nap
12:30 - lunch (1 cup of veges and dessert - yogurt, fruit or custard)
2:30pm - Nap for 30-40 mins (or 3.5 hours after waking from nap)
3:00 - 3:15pm - snack (fruit, yogurt or custard)
4:45pm - dinner (1 cup of veges)
6pm - 6:45pm - bath, bottle (250 - 300ml) and bed!
My LO is cutting 4 molars at the moment, so as you suggest I will wait until they are all out and then commence with the sleep training.
I have tried endlessly to extend his PM nap, but nothing has worked. Perhaps you can review our day and let me know if there is something that you can pick up that may assist with our PM nap and also our night and early waking.
I look forward to your response.
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My lo was going through the same thing and I tried him on one nap and that seemed to end the night wakings and early am's for a while (they are back now too with his molars). Have you thought about trying one nap to see if his night sleep/wakings resolve?? He may be ready to transition my guy always started taking shorter aft naps or dropping them altogether.
sabine
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I hope I"m not jinxing myself by talking about this...BUT it was about a month ago that
my son (18mos) was waking up early 5am... I tried putting him down later but that didn't work.
So I have stuck with his normal bedtime 7:30/7:45 but I did do the wake to sleep technique and
it worked!!! It took a WHOLE week but I didn't give up and he is now FINALLY waking up at
7:15ish... (his naps are around 12:30ish-1pm for 2 hours)
So I went into his room around 4am and repositioned him in his crib. He never woke up fully but
it did change his sleep cycle. I did this for 5 days straight but I kept moving the time I went into
his room by 10 mins... 4, 4:10, 4:20...etc. Also I pushed back his breakfast so that way he wasn't
expecting to get fed right away. ((I read that tip somewhere else to not feed breakfast or a
bottle as soon as they wake up or they will set their tummy's to be fed asap.))
Don't give up. I was willing to accept 6:30am wake ups but definitely nothing before hand and it
has been FINALLY paying off.I really hope the wake to sleep technique works!!!!
Take care,
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Well, things have not gotten any better, if anything probably a little worse. I really think that apart from cutting his molars and having a cold at the moment, he is SERIOUSLY OVERTIRED and in need of a really good sleep!!!
Can you please review our day (details on a previous post) and let me know what I can do to help him overcome his overtiredness, by perhaps tweaking his routine. Mostly when he wakes early from a nap, I try to resettle and he seems to want to get back to sleep but can't, would the teething be causing this??
Also, I might add that it has been a week now that I have stopped his midnight feeds, I merely give him water, but he still keeps waking up anywhere between 11pm and 1am for it and takes a while (up to 1 hour) to resettle.
Where I get confused is, if he takes a short AM nap (like 30 mins) do I then put him down for his PM nap a little earlier and hope for a bit longer nap and also would I need to change his bedtime if the PM nap is a short one also (like it usually is).
I am hoping that once he gets over the teething and the cold that by tweaking his routine I can get him back on track.
Sorry for all the questions, but am at my wits end with his and my lack of sleep (tolerance levels aren't that high when I am sleep deprived!!)
Thanks for your help.
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Short naps and early wake ups can be a sign of being ready to go to one nap. He's young, but maybe he's ready. You may try pushing his am nap by 15 minutes every three days until he's taking one long nap about 12pm. Give him a short cat nap in the afternoon to battle overtiredness and/or put him to bed early.
Also, I have a different opinion about sleep training during teething. I absolutely agree that any sleep training should be put on hold during illness, but as for teething, if you wait until its over, your child won't sleep until he's 5. ;) I think you should implement some form of sleep training sooner rather than later to get past the night wakings and early wakings. If you're comfortable with wo/wi, use that to deal with both night wakings and early wakings.
I would do one of two things to help eliminate the drink of water during the night - either give him a bottle or sippy of water in his crib so he can get himself a drink during the night or simply stop giving it to him and use wo/wi to get past it. As for the early wakings, he's being rewarded by being taken into your bed when he wakes in the morning so of course he's going to continue. I would use wo/wi to get him past that, too. Its very important, though, that you don't do wo/wi for an hour or so and then cave and take him into your bed. Make sure you're prepared to follow though until either he's quiet in his crib or its time to get up.
I think I'd probably deal with sleep training first, then try to transition to one nap. I would not do both at the same time. You may find that once he knows how to sleep though on his own that his naps will lengthen and his am wake time will be later. If that's the case, you don't have to transition to one nap right away.
HTH! Post with any questions you might have, with your plan, and with your progress. Good luck!
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Thanks for your advice. He is getting over a really bad cold at the moment, so I will wait until that is over and then commence the wi/wo, although I have been trying the gradual withdrawl and seems to be working most of the time.
I will keep you posted on our progress and no doubt you will hear from me again!!
thanks again
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Ok, this is getting ridiculous now! He seems to be over his cold etc and for the most part has stopped his constant whingeing, but now he is totally refusing the PM nap and also once I put him down for the night he will sleep fine until about midnight or 1am and then it is impossible to get him back to sleep, taking up to 2 hrs. I have ruled out hunger as I tried giving him a bottle and he didn't want it, I have ruled out discomfort due to wetness as I changed him, and now don't know what else to try. I have tried not picking him up and will fall asleep only to wake 10 mins later and this could go on for 1.5 hrs. What do I do???
He is also starting to refuse his AM, midnorning and bedtime bottles drinking only a max of 100ml for the AM and mid morning and only 200 for bedtime, this is compared to 200ml each bottle and 300ml at bedtime.
Why could he be sleeping so well the first half of the night and then not want to sleep anymore, sometimes I see that he does try to sleep but somehow can't, and other times he is simply full of beans!!
Please help me devise a plan as I am fed up with the night wakings.
thanks for your help
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Sounds a lot like overtiredness to me. What's his schedule now that he's refusing his pm nap? That might give us some insight as to the cause of the night wakings.
Also, I know from personal experience that if I'm exhausted I don't want to eat. Maybe he's just so tired he doesn't want to eat. Add to that his age - their appetites decrease after 1 year so it could be he just needs less food to meet his needs. What else is he eating throughout the day? He may be meeting his needs through food rather than through milk, which would also explain the decrease in milk.
Let us know about his schedule and we'll see what else we can do to help.
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His schedule is listed below.
6:30- 7am - wake & bottle (150ml)
8am - breakfast (1 bowl cereal equivalent to approx 1 cup) and toast sometimes
10- 10:30am- bottle (240ml) & nap (usually for 1 to 1h 15m) - or 3.5 hrs after waking
11-11:30am - wake from nap
12:30 - lunch (1 cup of veges and dessert - yogurt, fruit or custard)
2:30-3:00pm - Nap for 30-40 mins (or 3.45 - 4 hrs after waking from nap)
3:15 - 3:30pm - snack (fruit, yogurt or custard)
4:45pm - dinner (1 cup of veges)
6pm - 6:45pm - bath, bottle (250 - 300ml) and bed!
He has actually taken a PM nap for the last 2 days, yesterday was only 20mins and today was almost 2 hours, i had to wake him at 4:40pm.
My dilemma is that now his PM awake time is close to 4 hours, the closer he wakes to 12pm from AM nap, it will be 4pm by the time he wants to go down for a nap, do I still put him down even if its only for 30 mins and just put him to bed later, or do I let him go without??
In terms of his food during the day, I don't think he will take anymore than what he currently has, he seems satisfied with the current offerings.
I hope you can help me come up with a plan to finally put an end to the night wakings.
TIA
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It looks to me like he's eating plenty, which would at least help explain the decrease in milk.
How have the last two nights been with night wakings considering he's had his pm nap? If he sleeps better at night having had that pm nap, even if its just 30 minutes, I'd let him continue with it.
How are you handling the night wakings at this point? It may be confusing to him since you've tried a bottle, you've changed his pants, sounds like you've picked him up sometimes but not others . . . Am I reading your posts correctly or am I mistaken?
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The last 2 nights have been marginally better, he is still waking up but not taking as long to resettle, he had a 1 hr PM nap today, so we will see how we go tonight.
In terms of the night resettles, the rule is we don't pick him up, the only reason we do is that sometimes he is hysterical and in order to calm him we do, as soon he is calm, we put him back down. With the offering of the bottle I wanted to see if that was the reason he was still waking at night, seeing that it is only 3 weeks since he dropped it. I can now definitely rule out hunger for him waking up and put it down to just sheer habit. With the nappy changing, only reason I change him is that sometimes he wakes up totally soaked through and shivering, otherwise the rule is also not to change him.
I think at this stage, I will continue to offer the PM nap even if it means a 30min one and putting him down for the night a little bit later, hopefully this will eliminate the overtiredness. I am progressing with a combination of wi/wo and gradual withdrawl and have seen a little bit of improvement, I can now at least sneak out of the room and leave him to fall asleep on his own. He has done it a couple of times, and I can see thru the video monitor that he often lifts up his head and puts it back down and goes to sleep, this is a huge breakthrough, he would have never done that at one stage.
Let me know if you think there is something else I should be doing. I would appreciate your advice.
TIA
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Its great that you're getting out of the room before he's asleep - and it looks like he knows it. That's a huge accomplishment. You should be proud.
If its working for you, keep doing what you're doing. The goal is independent sleep, and you're reaching it. Yeah!
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Update!!
We are now down to 1-2 night wakings which can take as little as 10-15 mins to resettle (this is a huge improvement from 1.5 hrs). I have been using a combination of gradual withdrawl with wi/wo and for the most part it has been working, at least I am getting out of the room before he is asleep.
Now that the night wakings are sorting themselves out, still have a little way to go though, his day sleeps are down to 2 x 30mins. I used to be able to get at least 1hr for the AM, but not anymore. I have been making sure that he is still getting his PM nap even if it means its a little late in the afternoon and only for 30 mins just to ensure he is not overtired come bedtime.
Does this mean I should start to transition to 1 sleep, or should I wait until his night wakings are well sorted??
I have a few questions re the transition to 1 nap, but perhaps will save them for when we are truly ready to transition.
TIA
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I'd probably wait a little longer to transition - until the night wakings are completely sorted out.
Post your questions when you're ready to make the transition.
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Ok, we are ready to transition to 1 nap!!
His night wakings are a lot better, has slept thru a couple of times but mostly only wakes up once and its a really quick resettle.
At the moment his day sleeps are all over the place. The last 2 days he has only slept for 30 mins the whole day! Surely he needs more sleep than this but is flatly refusing the PM nap. Normally for the AM nap I was putting him down after a set amount of awake time, but today I decided to let him go until he started fussing etc. He woke at 6:45am and put him down at 11:15, still he only slept for 30 mins. I have tried W2S but have woken him on 2 occassions (it worked once). These last 2 days he has been in bed by 6:15pm and asleep by 6:30pm. Surprisingly enough though I watched him all day after his 30 min nap and he seemed fine, that is, not grouchy etc. Is it possible that he can actually survive on such little sleep?
My main question re transition is do I put him down at a set time each day (regardless of wake up time) or do I go for amount of awake time?
Also, is it normal that his naps will start off being so short, will they lengthen as time goes by?? Do I need to help him lengthen them?
I think I would be happy with at least 1.5 hrs, I have resigned myself to the fact that I will not get 2-3 hrs as many LO's do (and as much as I would love it), but anything would be better than 30 mins.
Anyway, I think they are my questions for the moment.
TIA
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I'm glad nights are so much better for you! That's great.
How you make the transition is up to you and him. If he can handle being awake until 11:30am or so, just pick a set time and go with it. If that does not work for him, you'll have to make the transition more slowly. Considering he's already having short naps, I'd probablly just go for it.
Usually naps will lengthen when they're on one. Henry was the KING of 30 minute naps until he was on one. Now he regularly sleeps for 2+ hours. Its great.
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Thanks for your response. I think that Sebastian is the type that can be pushed. Today for example he went to bed at 10:50am (woke up at 6:30am) and slept for 1 hour, although I intervened at 30 mins by waiting until he stirred and helping him through the 30 mins.
I can only live in hope that he will get over these 30 mins naps. With Henry did he gradually start sleeping longer on his own, or was it something you helped him out with? And if you did help him out, what did you do and how long did it take? Sorry for all the questions but I am desperately trying to sort his day sleeps out so that hopefully we can once and for all end the night wakings.
Thanks for all your help, you have given me some insight and hope!!
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He did it on his own. W2S has always scared the heck out of me and I used wo/wi to teach him to sleep independently so I avoid going in the room at all unless he's crying. One day he just started sleeping longer.
Good luck!