BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Paulsmama on September 25, 2006, 17:50:35 pm
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18 mo DS was sleeping independently through the night. Then DS2 arrived and things have gone steadily downhill. Last night #1 was playing/crying for 4 hours in the middle of the night. My mother has been doing bedtime and going to him while I am nursing the baby. She has had enough after last night and is leaving. I can't talk DH into doing wo/wi for more than 10 min, he has no patience and wants to cio. What do I do if #1 is crying and #2 needs to nurse??? I'm freaking out here. . . .
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Take a deep breath. We'll get you through this.
What's ds's schedule? I'm sure his sleeping issues are because of his new brother but maybe tweaking his schedule can help. He probably also needs some extra attention during the day so he doesn't seek that attention at night.
If I were you, I'd print two things for your dh - 1. the FAQ post titled Teaching independent sleep - methods and 2. the support thread for those doing wo/wi. That way he can see that it works and that its much better for everyone than CIO.
How much of that 4 hours during the night is ds1 crying? If he's just playing, leave him alone. He'll go back to sleep when he's ready. If he's crying, obviously you need to go to him (especially during this rough time for him with his new brother) but hopefully, considering he was a good sleeper before, it won't take too long to get him back on track.
I'm sorry it sounds like you don't have much support in this area. I wish we could do more to help - like come over during the night and help you!
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Thanks so much for responding. Last night was a big improvement, Paul didn't cry going down to sleep but woke crying at 4 am just as I was about to nurse the baby. I got DH to agree to do some version of wo/wi until I was done nursing and changing Joe. Surprisingly Paul calmed down when DH went in his room which he has never done before. Then about 5 I took over and apparently sometime later I fell asleep on the daybed in Paul's room (I really don't remember it was all a fog) and we both woke around 7:30 for the day.
Here's Paul's usual routine, we are trying to stick to it as much as possible despite the night wakings:
6-6:30 wake
12ish nap about 2-2.5 hrs
7ish bedtime, asleep around 7:30
The past few days we've been really struggling look more like this:
7-7:30 wake
12ish nap 2-3 hrs
7ish bedtime, asleep sometime between 7:30-8:30, often with crying
*random wakings at night, extended periods with crying*
Any suggestions would be great, I don't know how long DH is going to agree to keep with it.
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You might try putting him down earlier at night. I think his schedule looks fine, but sometimes an earlier bedtime can really help with night wakings.
I'm glad last night was better and glad your dh helped you. Big kudos to dh!!
There's no issue with you sleeping in his room for now - just try not to make it a habit. If he comes to depend on it, things might get worse. I'd probably stick with wo/wi to deal with night wakings - especially if you can get dh on board.
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I've found that in times of stress (new baby a big one) that sleeping in the room with them or at least lying down next actually is the fastest option & I have never had a problem with it becoming a habit & I think that is because I have explained (even to my 16mo) that I'm there until they go to sleep & then will go back to my own bed.
I'm also not sure (emotionally) that wi/wo is a good solution if he has been sleeping well & it has all changed... his sleep problems are almost definitely emotional & related to his brother being on the scene & him trying to work out his place in the world... so by going in & out & leaving him you are actually reinfocing that the baby is important enough for you to stay with all the time, but he isn't as important enough for all your energy KWIM... if your dh is willing to help, maybe ask him to go & "sleep" on the day bed until you can go to him... that way he learns he is as important as the baby for someone to respond to him & spend time with him... that certainly worked with us with ds#1 & actually on one occasion I just got ds#1 up & sat him with me in the middle of the night while I fed ds#2... not ideal, but the next night I had no sleep problems. I have always felt it is important to look at the reason for the problem & address that rather than the actual problem & address the reason.
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I really appreciate the input. I talked with my mom and realized we have a lot of things to deal with. When DH came to take me to the hospital it was bedtime and I was trying to do his wind down without screaming but had to go and my mom put him to bed, when we were gone the two nights my mom slept in his room and even took him on the daybed a couple of times, (and even did the first few days we were back) and he now gets noticeably irritated when he sees me or my mother holding the baby. So I think he has a trust issue with me and I may have to stay in his room until he sleeps to build that back (if I can). I wish I could spend more time with him during the day but when I try I get so exhausted it seems to negatively impact bfing. We'll keep trying to muddle through. Thanks so much for the encouragement.
Last night was pretty bad, he actually fell asleep about 7:30 but was woken by DH coming in the outer door -- I think he thought we were leaving and the wouldn't calm down and sleep for another hour. He woke 5 times during the night, my mom said she just put a hand on him and he went back to sleep. Yes she felt so sorry for me that she agreed to spend the night occasionally.
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I'm glad your mom can help. And given the additional information regarding what happened when Joseph was born, I agree you should stay with him until it passes. When you're ready, gradual withdrawal is detailed in the FAQ section.
I hope it gets better soon.
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I have a spirited one & 18mo was hard, so I can empathise... Sounds like the birth situation was pretty stressful for him ...will he sit long enough for you to read stories while you bf?... I found that was really good with my ds#1 but he is a low physical energy spirited child (makes up with mental energy) & loves to sit & read/watch tv.
What about having a soft ball (rolled up sock) & playing "catch" with him while you bf... throw it & get him to find & bring it back or singing songs that he has to stamp his feet to.
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Thanks so much Sarah and Kate.
I'll try an early bedtime when possible, I try to nurse the baby between Paul's dinner and bath/bed but the baby doesn't always cooperate.
I like the ball idea, when we're more proficient at bfing I'll try it, right now we've been doing this only 2 weeks and I need both hands (I was unable to bf first time around so new to all of this). Paul is very physical and won't sit still during bfing, he'll sometimes bring me a book but after a couple of pages he'll either try to climb up on us or usually just points at the baby, screams and runs off. He's used to going to a playground every day to burn off energy, luckily grandpa comes to take him out in the mornings.
I was lulled into a false sense of security because Paul slept through the first two nights after we came home. Now I think that was just his 18 mo growth spurt since his clothes no longer fit and he is harder to pick up than when I was 9 mos preg. Part of me wants to give up bfing so someone else can take Joseph and I can take Paul, but I don't feel that's right just yet. I try to count my blessings for two wonderful healthy children, a great DH and parents who are willing to help out for now, but it is just really, really, really hard.
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Cynthia have you tried a "busy bag" in one of the BW books Tracy talks about a "busy Bag" she used for her elder dd when she was feeding her baby.
You could use a pillow slip & put anything you wanted in it & change it each time so Paul gets it when it is feed time & gets to pull all the things out & look at them, so some of his toys, books, kitchen things, even material with different textures, just stuff for him to play with while you feed, even a sippy cup to have a drink
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Yep, made a "busy box" and even put in new toys he hadn't seen yet, boxes of tissue to pull out, toilet paper to unravel, etc. It lasts about 15 min tops once a day and then he is off and running. Paul would just rather be outside exploring. He plays very well by himself outdoors, it's just indoors that he gets impatient. I even let him watch WAY too much Sesame Street now. He's a great kid and tons of fun when his energy is properly channeled, he just can't sit still very long without a lot of interaction.
Bedtime is getting to be a mess. He napped from just before noon until 3:00, I tried an early 7 pm bedtime (normally would have been closer to 7:30) and he didn't fall asleep until 8:45. Not crying, he tried to fall asleep until about 8 and then just started walking around the crib babbling. I finally had to leave and send my mother in so I could eat something before the baby needed to nurse again. At least Paul slept until 5:30 am. Yesterday I napped in his room because it was cooler and noticed that he woke briefly around 1:30, sat up and saw me there and went back to sleep. I don't know if he may be anxious at nighttime because it is so dark in his room he can't tell if he's alone? It's just so confusing.
DH and I are thinking that we'll give this some period of time (don't know what) to try to sort it out or Joseph will be going on the bottle. As it is no one is getting enough attention. I don't want us all to continue to be miserable and then I have to go back to work in a few months anyway.
Thanks for all of the ideas. It helps so very much just to know that someone is there listening sometimes.
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Cynthia,
I am so sorry you're having SUCH a rough time of it!!!! :( Big, huge hugs to you! I can tell you that since I breastfed William it does get easier as the weeks pass by. Hopefully even in 2-3 more weeks your newest LO will be a more efficient nurser. I know that may seem a long way off at this point, though!
Do ya'll have a kiddie type of CD player for Paul? Maybe he could choose a CD to listen to while you nurse and even turn it off or on, etc. You could get one of those toddler "action" cd's that he might enjoy since you said he likes activity. Also, we have one of those toddler bubble blowers that they pull down the handle themselves and out come bubbles. It's battery operated and made by a company called "Little Kids". They make these no spill bubble things you may have seen. Trying to think of things he could do himself while you bf.
OK, as I was typing this you just posted so sorry to be repeating myself! As for no one getting any attention, I hear (from other friends who have 2 under 2, etc.) that that's how it is when you have more than one child. Paul has been the center of everything and I guess you just have to do the best you can and know you're not perfect!!!! But I'm sure everyone has already told you all this already so sorry to be a broken record.
Take care and hang in there,
Suzanne
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William born 3/23/05