SLEEP => General Sleep Issues => Topic started by: maman_d_emily on July 16, 2007, 10:39:55 am

Title: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: maman_d_emily on July 16, 2007, 10:39:55 am

My  problem is that my 3 months old daughter was sleeping only around midnight for the night and doing only 45 min A time during the day.  Now, I've try to decrease her nap time during the day to 45 min to an hour to have her switch her half day to half night as it is written in the book but that kind of screw an EASY routine of 3 hours because it look more like a EASAS and getting mix up later in the day with S following the E because she is so tired.  I did that for 3 days and after 2 days, she went to bed at 7:30 and slept till 7:00 the next morning with DF at 10:30pm.  Yesterday, same kind of day with her having around 1.5 E+A in the morning followed by 1.5 hours S (she would have slept more) then couldn't stay awake more than 45 min (E+A) and S of 45 min (I woke her up) and then the 3 hours routine get all mixed up.  She went to bed at 7:45pm but woke up around 8:30pm and I had to do PU/Pd and sh/pat until 9:30 (well I did leave her alone for a while in the beginning since she was cooing and then the mantra cry.  Do I leave her alone during the mantra cry or do I pat/sh her?).  She also woke up at 5:30 this morning (which she never do) and she seem hungry, so I fed her and put her back to bed.  I had to PU/PD and Sh/pat for an hour. 

I kind of get that she shouldn't sleep too much during the day as to be able to sleep at night but I don't know what I should do.  If I am waking her after only 45 min, should I start back at EAS (that would put her on a routine of 1.5 EASY).  The problem is not that she is hungry, the problem is that she would do 45 min E+A, 1.75 - 2 hours S and then not sleeping until midnight after 7:00pm if I would let her.  Even with the days that she is going to bed earlier (it did happen before, not often but some), her A time is not longer during the day.  Now, it's taking me more time to put her to bed for naps then before.  I think she is all mix up and I am too, because right now our routine suck.

I know I am doing something wrong but I don't know how to do it right. Can somebody please help me!!!
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: nursekat on July 17, 2007, 03:06:28 am
Actually babies that get less sleep during the day have trouble sleeping at night.  Babies at your age should be having four naps during the day, THREE naps of 1.5-2hrs and ONE nap of 45mins.  I'm having trouble figuring out what exactly you are attempting with your routine.  A sample routine at this age is:

7am Eat, Activity
8:30 Sleep
10am Eat, Activity
11:30 Sleep
1pm Eat, Activity
2:30 Sleep
4pm Eat, Activity
5:30 Sleep (catnap)
Feed at 7, then do bedtime routine and in bed by 7:30

That being said, however, watch your baby's cues.  My dd could only handle 45mins of awake time and napped 2 hours or more.  It worked well for her, she has always needed more sleep than most.  The routine is just a guideline and you adapt it to work for your LO.

You can do this, you are not doing anything wrong!  We are all just here muddling along.  :)
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: maman_d_emily on July 18, 2007, 01:00:59 am
Well, I was trying to put her on day time which seem to have been working (The problem was that she was sleeping all day and awake until midnight after 7pm).  She is now more awake during the day(yesterday and today) 2 hours awake and 1.5-2 hours naps but she is not going to bed before 9:00-9:30pm.  I know she should go to bed earlier but it doesn't work.  Sometime she has sign of being tired and when we put her to bed, she either cry for 2 hours doing pat/shh and PU/PD or will start to play in her bed.  Tonight, she had gas so every time she was falling asleep she would wake up because of gas pain.  Then after, she was all awake and smiling.  No point keeping her in the crib when she is not tired anymore.  I guess I will have to live with her going to bed later than other babies.

Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: nursekat on July 18, 2007, 02:32:48 am
Keep in mind that settling into a routine takes some time, older babies take 2-4 weeks and younger babies may take months.  It sounds like you are doing a great job at reading her cues though.  You might try to continue to gradually work her towards the routine you are aiming for.  Keep up the great job, Mommy!  ;D
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: maman_d_emily on July 19, 2007, 07:00:45 am
This is not working, tonight she went to bed at 7:30 but then she woke up around 8:30pm with gas.  So we got her up and try to help her with that.  After some time, this seem OK but she wouldn't go to bed or lie down on us (we try that because we didn't know if she still had gas or other pain) but when we put her down on her mat she was happy.  that's when I knew she just wanted to be up and even after she showed sign of being tired, she wouldn't sleep.  So I tried again PU/PD and SH/pat for a long time and then my husband did it too.  She fell asleep around 10:30pm.   She probably will have a hard time to stay up during the day tomorow and the cycle will begin again.  I just don't know what to do, I just kept crying tonight as I am so desperate.   People that come to help me are not able to handle her in the evening and just keep her up and my husband is doing the same thing.

Should I just keep her in her crib and do PU/PD all night to have her learn that is time to sleep or should I get her up when she seem awake after one hour of sleep?  Should I just keep her up until she is really exausted (which will probably mean she will revert to go to bed  around midnight and sleeping during the day) and stop worrying about it?
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: Colin Macs Mom on July 19, 2007, 16:57:27 pm
Maman, your LO is too young yet for PU/PD. That method is intended for babies 4 mo and older because younger than that it's too overstimulating and they aren't able to learn from it yet. My suggestion to you would be to stop PU/PD altogether and stick with shhh/pat. Go for the routine Kathleen posted for you and stick to it as closely as you possibly can. It won't be a lot of fun for a few days but she will get the idea that this is how things are going to be.
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: maman_d_emily on July 20, 2007, 00:45:10 am
In the book, it say that you can do PU/PD at 3 months and she is really less than 2 weeks short of being 4 months and it did work great for her to sleep without being breastfed or on daddy shoulder.  Tonight, she went to bed at 7:30 but woke up at 8:30 with abdominal pain and after all the crying and trying to decrease the pain, she tend to wake up completely and it's harder to get her back to sleep after all that.  It is 9:40 and I hope she is in bed for the night.  She is now on a 3-4 hours EASY and it work well during the day, she tend to be more awake during the day (1.5-2 hours) and sleep 1.5-2 hours for nap without having too much trouble for the last few days. 
Sometimes I have to wake her up from her nap but should I let her sleep since she is having trouble to sleep in the evening because of the pain? Or will it ruin her routine?
This all mess started with her having bad colic or abdominal pain in the evening (2-3 hours) and I breastfed her or my husband had her on his shoulder to help her and we let sleep that way.  I've learned that breasfeeding don't help and I'm not doing it when she has that pain but we still put her on our shoulder to relieve the pain but don't let her sleep that way.  I thaught that maybe she had those crying pain because of her being overtired but she was not today and her belly is so hard when she is like that so I know that it is some kind of pain.   

But really, should I let her sleep more during since she has trouble in the evening.
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: deckchariot on July 20, 2007, 01:32:33 am
I would suggest talking to your pediatrician about the gas pains.  If she's in pain, no amount of schedule tweaking or sleep training will help.  If it's gas, you may want to try Mylicon drops, or in the UK, they have something called Colief that's supposed to help also (I think).  But I would start with trying to address the abdominal pain, then keep trying to get her on the routine suggested above.  That said, if you let her sleep longer during the day, that will just add to the trouble sleeping at night.  Also, as you gradually get her on the routine, her bedtime will move earlier.  I'm just not sure how much success you'll have until you can address her gas issues.
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: maman_d_emily on July 21, 2007, 00:38:20 am
I do agree that her routine won't be able to be good unless we help with the abdominal pain.  We try the Mylicon drops, Cocyntal.  I will talk to the doctor for the Colief (I don't know if we have it under this name in Canada but I will check).  As far as the routine, she is doing a lot better but I hope the abdominal pain will resolve soon.  I didn't have any milk product for more than a month.  Soya milk is not so good.  Thank you all for your advice,  it did help me a lot.
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: nursekat on July 21, 2007, 17:52:31 pm
The cutting out milk could be key - I don't remember how long but I know it takes a long time to get it out of your system.  Good luck and keep coming back with more questions as needed!  :D
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: Colin Macs Mom on July 30, 2007, 19:09:12 pm
How are things going?
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: maman_d_emily on August 06, 2007, 20:51:23 pm
My baby is doing better as far as not having any more abdominal pain for a week now.  We've been away on vacation for the last week and didn't seem to bother her too much to have change of surrounding.  I did try to have her routine as close as possible from her usual routine.  She still will not go to bed before 9pm and has a hard to stay awake in the morning more than 1-1.5 hours.  I've realise that she need to be very tired to fall asleep quickly.  I've posted something on the night waking forum since she seem to be waking up once in a while at night and can't go back to sleep without us do the sh/pat (try to have her settle by herself but she will stay awake 1-2 hours playing, mantra cry).  Should we help her go back to sleep after some time, because she will lack some sleep at night and will sleep more during the day and that would be a bad habit to have.
Title: Re: Help please, going crazy!
Post by: Colin Macs Mom on August 06, 2007, 21:19:42 pm
good  :)