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Night Wakings / Re: 8 month old night sleep problems
« Last post by trishr on Today at 11:12:24 »
Hi it is me again. I can start a new thread to the larger group but thought I'd start here first. Things have turned worse than when I originally wrote in. The rash has turned out to be an allergy so I don't think the NWs are discomfort. My DD has started responding to my husband the same way she was with me. It has been about 2 weeks again and she is not going to sleep at night without assistance and quite a bit of work to get her to settle and fall asleep., wakes 1 or more times  after finally going to bed, sometimes as quickly as 20 mins after going down,  and will often be so immediately wide awake she wants to play with you. If you leave her to play she cries her head off until we come back and are back to how we started the night. She is still an angel at the sitters for naps but we are held hostage at night and on weekends. I am currently writing this while BFing her to sleep because she woke at 11:30 and it is now almost 3 am. I am beyond tired and she has also now woken my 6 year old. I know she is stuck in a pattern of "requiring" mom and dad to assist her in going to sleep. I just do not know how to get out of it since she is so stubborn and I cannot make pu/pd work. I don't hold her anymore or very short if I do. She mostly gets settled in crib but then I try to go and it is a flip out or she settles in crib then starts Turing from side to stomach to back kicking legs trying to crawl etc and trying to play. If I leave, freak out but when I come back, proud look and giggling because she got a reaction. She is definitely having development mile stones but these problems have been here a while as you know. Should I try to extend A time? Decrease naps from 1.5 hours to less? (We almost always have to wake her from naps at 1.5 hour mark. Should I let her nap longer?

Sorry for the string of questions. Just truly baffled at this piibt.

TIA!!!!
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In routine terms I do think capping the nap is the way to go. At least to try.
In molar teething terms though sometimes you have to just go with the flow and let them sleep tbh.  I probably would have done the same and during the nap just readied myself for a very late night (ie physically prepare by having dinner made or by having a nap! Mentally prepare by just telling myself over and over to expect it to be rough, it never seemed as bad once I was mentally prepared).

Hopefully the worst of this teething will pass in a couple of days. Our molar teething went on sooooo long but the absolute worst parts were different to the regular parts. During the regular parts he was in pain but we could get on our routine and obviously during the worst parts we couldn't and there was no point trying.
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Hi there :)

Your LO is still quite young and if he is happy on the 1hr A time then that's fine. Soon enough he will be able to stay awake a bit longer and that will naturally help to extend those E times.  So for now if he sleeps 2hrs that fine and brings him up to the 3hr E, but if he sleeps 1.5hrs after the 1hr A time you can go ahead and feed him at 2.5hrs.
There is no "rule" to feed LOs as soon as they wake, this is based on whether they are hungry or not. It sounds like he really is hungry, go ahead and feed him and if the routine goes a bit off track that's okay.  If though he begins not to be so hungry at the 2.5hr mark you can slowly extend the E time which means there may be a little A time after S and your routine might look like EASAEAS which is also fine.

My DS was on 2.5hr E when I discovered the BW books when he was 4 - 5 wks old and I started to slowly extend his E times just by 5 mins each day.  Every baby is individual and eating regularly, a proper feed, at 2.5hrs is perhaps just what your LO needs right now - this isn't the same as snacking.

Don't stress yourself out trying to make those naps 2hrs long though. 1.5hr is fine and considered a restorative sleep.  All the routines in the books are guidance only, I've often found on the boards babies either sleep 1.5hrs or 2hrs but rarely mix the two or move to one if they naturally do the other.
In terms of how much day sleep effecting night sleep - don't worry until there are signs that it isn't working. If your LO is up half the night ready to play then something needs to change.  There is more likely to be a problem with night sleep if LO is allowed to do a 3hr+ nap as this would indicate that his "long stretch" of sleep would be coming in the day time rather than at night.  This is clearly not happening.

With 2.5hr E and 1hr A time your routine might get a bit trickier as the day goes on. It could look something like this:
WU 7
E 7
A 1hr
S 8 - 9.30
E 9.30
A 1hr
S 10.30 - 11.00
E 12 *** instead feed at 11.30 - see below
A 1hr
S 12 - 1.30
E 2pm
A 1hr
S 2.30 - 4
and so on

*** so at this point things get hard. You can't feed at 12 and have LO asleep at 12.  So you would need to bring that E time a bit earlier, say 11.30am which is only 2hrs and you would need to put a little A between E and S to avoid making a F2S prop (feed to sleep).  As I say though, soon he will be able to stay awake longer so don't worry too much about a perfect routine right now.

Hope this helps
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I would aim to have BT as a set time with no too much change each day.  Toddlers this age tend to do better on set nap and BTs with minimal change.  To work out BT I would just aim for 7.30 each day and over a period of time assess if this seems suitable. By suitable I mean, not too grumpy prior to BT, not having lots of OT NWs, not too much resistance to BT, and a regular-ish and suitable WU time the next morning.  Any of those things get too tricky and I would then tweak the routine by moving BT earlier or later or shifting the nap time - but then it is "set" again. Hope that makes sense.
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Hope you enjoyed your trip :)
It always takes a while to get back on track after a change like that. We're here if you end up struggling but often LOs can adapt back to their regular routine within a few days or a week.
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replacing them with white versions at least sometimes. This is recommended until 5yo in the UK.
A tip if you like to eat brown pasta, you can cook a small portion of white pasta in with your own brown pasta which greatly reduces the number of pots on the stove and amount of extra work involved to provide LO with a slightly different meal. We eat white pasta but my DS was highly frustrated by spaghetti even though he had happily eaten it a couple of times, basically he couldn't get the food in his mouth fast enough and found it an ordeal to eat. For a while I dropped a handful of pasta twists into the pot with our spag and then just fished them out when I drained. Worked a treat.  I know some pastas have a slightly different cooking time but it always worked out fine for DS. I did this until the day he got upset that he wasn't served exactly the same as mummy and daddy.  Kids eh?

With bread, crumpets, pita breads, chapati etc you could perhaps by a white version and freeze it so that you can lift out one portion for LO and the main meal is the same but LO gets the white version until older.

WRT constipation. I found I could naturally control my DS's poo with prunes and carrots. If he was a bit too firm I gave him a ready to eat, pitted, prune or two as part of his meal (he loved them and would just eat them straight like that) and in addition I avoided serving carrots for a day or two. If he was a little too loose I served carrots (and  no prunes) which firmed things up.  I am sure other people use other foods in a similar way, it's great if you can discover a couple of foods like this which you LO likes.
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Hoping for some advice on my 5.5 month daughters sleeping issues....I am so tired and go back to work soon and really want her sleep to improve.

Our routine is:

530-5:50 - wake up - I try and shush her back to sleep but she very rarely goes back (occasionally she does wake up later 6:30/7 but quite rare at the moment)

Eat - 7

Sleep - 8:30 - 1.15 -1.5 hrs

Eat - 10:30

Awake 2hr 15

Sleep - 12:30 - 1.5-2 hours

Eat - 2pm

Awake 2hr 10

Sleep - 4:15 - 40 mins (sometimes she goes longer and I have to wake her)

Eat - 4:50pm

Awake 2hr 15

B/t - bath, story and feed then bed - she goes off well and is awake when I put her down. She has her dummy which I think she may be dependent on as well.

She then usually wakes at 9:50 but goes back to sleep with some sshh pat.( I did try wake to sleep which worked for a week but now wakes again!) I then do dream feed about 10:30.

She has been waking in the night at 1:30 and 4/4:30. I have a really hard time trying to get her back to sleep and usually end up feeding her. She is breastfed. She then takes a little while going back off after the last feed - and is usually up about 5:50!! I always try to put her down awake after the feeds but she's very drowsy.


Is she actually hungry at this age to be wanting feeds during the night or is she waking out of habit?

Any help and advice would be much appreciated :)
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Sorry Creations - 1 more thing whilst we navigate this craziness. With BT recommendation of 7/7.30, given her longer time to fall asleep at night, would you recommend I have her asleep by 7.30 or PD at 7.30 and should I adjust this +/- depending on nap length?

Our easy today was;

NW: 2.30; offered pain meds and she went back to sleep relatively easily!
WU: 7.50.
Nap: 12.45 - 2.45
BT: 7.30 PD; aiming to be asleep by 8.10?
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That sounds amazing!! I'll definitely try putting a towel or pillow under the sheet.

Well it's 10:20 pm here and DS just fell asleep  :o

I let him take a nap way too long and it for sure affected BT. It took an hour or so, yikes!

Today was:

WU 8 am (let him sleep in so he had a 11.5 hr night with 3 quick NW.
S 2-4 pm ( he was out cold and I let him sleep)
BT 10:20pm (I aimed for 9:30 bc of the long nap but that didn't help at all)

I guess it seems capping the nap is the way to go huh?
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Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: Great settling for naps but not for bedtime
« Last post by Mia.Sky on Yesterday at 22:40:37 »
Hi!

Sorry for disappearing - those were busy days. We went camping and all the success we had gained so far almost disappeared and I had to begin again.

thank you for your comments! about her sleep - she was a short napper - like 45-50 min max each time and now I feel blessed when she sleeps for 1.30 hours! Although I got your point - I hope she will start dropping off one of the naps soon but from what I see now - after being awake for 2.5 hours in the morning she starts yawning, rubbing her eyes, being moody - so clearly tired and ready to sleep - it was 2 hours before - I always stretch it up to 2.5 hours. I will try 3 but it might be hard for her. So for now she definitely needs 2 naps.

As for food. I think you are right - it is time to stop nursing her before naps. I will leave only morning and evening feeding. And concerning solids - she eats the same food we eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Before we went camping we had 1 week of amazing nights - she slept through the night most of them. So hopefully we are almost there!

Thank you so much for your help!!!

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