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Eating For Toddlers / Re: DS hasnt eaten for 3 months
« Last post by creations on Yesterday at 09:43:00 »
Well, that's hard if you are trying to follow your local guidelines, I've never seen guides which suggest that much. It's about double (or more) what is recommended here.
Hello everyone..

Our daughter (AJ) who is almost 21 months has since 19mo been waking several hours after bedtime crying. She then continues to cry out, rarely really properly settling properly, for the remainder of the night. Previously she was napping very well, and sleeping perfectly through the night. She never cried when going down for nap or bedtime, even if slightly UT. Now... she screams (mum, mum, mum, mum, mum, as soon as I put her in bed) and then when I leave she screams blue murder. She does settle relatively quickly and at nap time she's usually asleep in 5 minutes - sleeping for usually 2 hours. At bedtime, she's always taken approximately 40 minutes to fall asleep.

I tried pushing the nap from 1pm to 1.30pm and cutting it 30 minutes so a 1.5hr nap but I ended up with more night wakings and an absolutely miserable child who then one day crashed out on the floor at 10.30am and slept for 3 hours!

We are continually at the doctors and there is no sign of ear infections, virus, throat infections or anything else.

She sucks her thumb, but no dummy/paci or any other APOP associations. She's been an independent sleeper and sleeping through the night since about 8 months old.

This behaviour has coincided with an absolute defiance to leave me - especially at our local creche and church which (after some climatisation, was running into very happily.

I've had to put her in a big bed with a side rail because of personal back issues and bending into the cot. It's made no difference to the wakings.

My husband has had to take a second job and is now exhausted because we're awake most of the night, each night. Is this just a very very very long phase!?

Previously amazing routine:
WU: 7/7.30
Nap: 1.00 - 3.00
BT: 7.00; asleep 7.30.

Current Routine:
WU: 7.30/7.45 ish (having usually woken crying at 5.30)'
Nap: 1.00 (but is so exhausted she wants to sleep well before this and it's a struggle to keep her happy, awake and occupied). Usually 2 hours but lately has been wanting to compensate and I have on a copule of occasions let her go to 2.5/3hrs but I do cap at 2hr mark.
BT: 7.30; asleep by 8.10.
NW: 10.30/11
NW: every 1/2 hour - 1 hour until say 2 or 3
NW: 4.30/5.30 etc then dozing or goes back to sleep..

Then, from 10.30/11 she wakes crying. She's usually kicks off all her blankets when she wakes at this time so if she doesn't settle within 10 minutes, I go in and tuck her back in say goodnight and then let her whinge and fuss the rest of the night unless she's upside down or really not settling... She doesn't want to get up though, she's genuinely tired versus my son who had happy NW's and I knew it was time to cut the nap...

We've recently changed bedtime to 7.30pm (asleep by 8.10 usually) but no change, in fact i think it's worse.

Could anyone suggest anything I could try or any indications on what could be going wrong? Today she fell asleep in minutes at 12.30pm and I had to wake her to go to a function at 1.15.My 4yo said he'd sleep in her room and see if that helps tonight but she's already woken at 9.20 and 10pm having fallen asleep at 8.10pm!

Thank you,
Eating For Toddlers / Re: DS hasnt eaten for 3 months
« Last post by CattyPads on Yesterday at 08:40:20 »
Thank you, I will try it.
I was only going by the guidelines, in my country they say at 2 years old they should  have have a litre per milk per day, but if you guys think I should reduce it in order for him to eat I will try it. Because his paediatrician doesn't seem interested and says"it will pass".
thanks again :)
Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: Dropping the last nap issue
« Last post by sszskristy on Yesterday at 07:16:32 »
Sometimes just getting them in bed 15 mins early helps with OT a bit x

Yes, I plan to  pick her up from daycare earlier from next week, thank you hun!
General Sleep Issues / Re: Early Waking 9 month old
« Last post by JCN on Yesterday at 06:53:49 »
So, just an update... yesterday panned out like this:

WU 5:30
S 9:30-11:30
S 15:00-16:00
BT 19:30

In the night he woke once at 3:30, but we think he is teething so I gave him a dose of calpol (which he'd also had a BT) and then he slept until 06:00am :)
Sleeping For Toddlers / EW at 17 months.. is there anything we can do??
« Last post by Spamelina on Yesterday at 06:19:56 »
So I've posted on here a couple of times, first for help with the 2-1 nap transition and then again for advice on separation anxiety.. and I'm pleased to say we've managed to get past both stages, our son now has one solid nap a day and goes to bed beautifully, self settling really well.. hurrah!

However we still have an issue with very early morning wakening, today it was 4.50am  ::). I'm not sure if there is anything we can do about it, or do I just have to resign myself to going to bed at 9pm every night for the foreseeable future?!  I don't want to complain as apart from the EW he goes down for his nap really well, goes to bed easily and sleeps soundly all night.  I just wonder if he's getting enough total sleep and it would be bliss if he could just get to say, 6am! 

Currently his routine looks like this -

Wake up - between 4.50/5.15 am (wakes up screaming and gets very angry until you get him up)
Nap - approx 11am (1.5-2 hours - usually pretty tired by this time as he's awake so early)
Bedtime - 7pm (again usually quite tired but awake when I put him down and he goes to sleep himself)

He does have quite long awake periods during the day but I don't really want to go back to 2 naps as I was struggling to fit them in and he didn't have any consistency in his routine.  We've tried leaving him the morning but he will scream loudly for ages and I don't want to risk waking his brother, I've tried giving him milk but whilst that might settle him for 10 mins or so he's then awake again screaming to her out..  I've tried sitting with him and patting to try and re-settle him.. but nothing seems to work.  Today I even thought I'd try 'wake to sleep' and I went in at 4.15am and roused him slightly so he moved and went back into a deep sleep.. didn't work, he was awake again at 4.50!

He's happy and awake when we get him out of bed.. so do I just resign myself to the fact that he's had enough sleep and this is just his awake time?? Or are there any tweaks I could make to his routine to try and push him a little later in the morning?


Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Last post by creations on June 23, 2017, 21:47:43 pm »
I think as you had started to put him in the cot and sleep train now would be a good time to do that again.  Perhaps continue with the naps in arms for a day or so whilst you lengthen that first A, but I wouldn't linger on extending the A time or continuing the naps in arms, I do mean just a few days.  Moving from 3hr A time to 4.5 hr is a big jump, I'd suggest extending by 30 min day 1 (perhaps do this one in arms as it won't be long enough for a good settle) and another 30 min day 2 (perhaps get this one in the cot as it would now be 4hr but maybe stay there to help him as needed with a hand on or shush/pat).  Then I'd probably give him a few days on 4hrs before increasing again. When you increase further do it in 15 mins rather than 30.
It might go something like this:
day 1 in arms 3hr 30 A time
day 2 in cot 4hr A time, but help him as needed
day 3 as day 2
day 4 as day 2
day 5 in cot 4hr 15min A time, help as needed, should start to get easier
day 6 in cot 4hr 15
day 7 in cot 4hr 15 reassess now
day 8 possibly 4hr 30 if naps have not lengthened enough or if there is still nap resistance

Depending on how nap 1 goes you will need to judge for yourself each day what to do for nap 2.  Either a full 1hr nap or a 30min CN - base this on how long he slept for nap 1 and how long you need before BT.  You might like to continue nap 2 in arms for now whilst you get on track because it will be a bit easier to control that nap whilst the first nap is going to be a bit more unpredictable at this early stage.

Please do remember the sample routine is only a guide. It may work for you LO but something a little different might be more suitable.

hope this helps
Major TYPO that should have said 19.25 - 02.20 *sad face*
You mean 20:20? :( 1 hr then...'

Is there a big difference between transitioning from one cycle to the next at night and in the day then?!
Yes, day and night sleep are different.

I worked really hard to get her to have an almost 2hr nap this afternoon, lots of patting and resettling twice.
SO a 1:30 nap at this age is as good as a 2hr nap. Try not to get too hung up on the 2hr length of nap with a 2hr A time in the 4hr EASY - its really just to make the clock work easier I think, can't recall many babies who magically sleep 2hr instead of 1.5 when they go to 2hr A times.

This may seem an odd question given the heat there at the moment is making news here... are you cooling her room too much and she's cold in the middle of the night?
This is a great stretch! This is a solid stretch of almost as much sleep as she was having in 24hr when you first posted.
Major TYPO that should have said 19.25 - 02.20 *sad face*

This here is a 45min nap - classically UT or 4 month old cannot transition from cycle to next.
Is there a big difference between transitioning from one cycle to the next at night and in the day then?!

Its ok to reduce A times a bit if she's had a short nap
Ok cool! I think I need to do a shorter A time after the last nap and before BT.

What do you mean by BT here? BT to me is baby is being laid into bed for sleep having had pre-bed routine including feed.
Ahh, my mistake. I have been calling BT the bed time routine, so when I start the bath, feed, book routine. So in that example, I did all of that and rocking to sleep, between 18.00 - 19.25.

You're not working from a completely awful place though, you've made a lot of progress and you can take the long view so I think you'll be ok. Its not actually necessarily all difficult at 6 month or after that. I got DS from sleeping with props to independent sleep in a couple of weeks at 5 months (didn't find this website til then and I was in all sorts of trouble) and it was fine. Try not to work yourself up too much about that.
Thank you! I needed to hear that!

2. If she's happy in bed, leave her if its in the small hours of the morning. Its so frustrating for you and for her and actually counterproductive for you to be trying to get her to sleep at that hour. If she's upset, attend to her of course but if she's happily lying in bed gurgling at 5am, leave her to it.
Ok, yes. As you'll see from previous posts, it's just too much at that time putting her down twice and her waking smiling twice, I have to take 5 for myself and come back, but she is always really happy so yep, I'll leave her there.

Thanks for the plan of action. I will jump on it.
4. Reduce A times if necessary to no less than 1:30 but preferably 1:45 if she's had a short nap. If she then takes a long nap, do 2hr A time thereafter.
Ok. Wish I'd read this earlier..... just put her down for the night (A 1.45), I worked really hard to get her to have an almost 2hr nap this afternoon, lots of patting and resettling twice. That was a good? but interrupted nap, so perhaps I should have done A 2hrs. We'll see how long she's down for tonight.

She only had a short 25mins nap around 1pm and a 1hr nap 9-10am, after her usual 5.30am wake up so I'm thinking lots of OT floating around. Last night was the worst in about 6 weeks, she woke at 23.45 after 4.5hrs sleep and it wasn't until 2am that I finally gave in and brought her in bed with us where she comfort sucked for an hour before sleeping until 5.30am.
I don't have any advice to offer but just wanted to say, I've been following your thread since the beginning even though it's really hard I totally appreciate your sharing everything you're going through because it is helping me work through the similar things. I'm a FTM too and my dd is I think, a week or so younger than yours. Also spirited. Although no two babies are the same, I really to empathise with you.

Sigh maybe this is the 4mo regression. Got her down at bt at 8:30 last night - wasn't even difficult. But she woke at 9:10 and we couldn't get her down until almost midnight. Every time we bounced her to sleep she'd wake up on transfer or a few minutes later.
This was me last night almost to the minute D: I know that doesn't help you at all but I just wanted to say thank you for your sharing and of course to becj86! I'm keeping everything crossed that we'll both get through the 4mths ok.

Working on trying to observe her tired cues better so I don't miss them.
I know you said ages ago on my thread that yawning was not a reliable sleepy cue - you were right! But just thought I'd say that I think you wrote a few posts ago that dd had started a new high pitched shriek? For my dd this is a (new) sign that she's really ready for sleep. Tonight she was beyond hyper in the bath, despite only being up for 45mins, and doing that lovely shriek so we only read one book and it was still tougher than normal to get her down to sleep.

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