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Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: minimum 3.5hr A time schedule help
« Last post by airam on June 23, 2017, 10:05:28 am »
Sorry for the delay.

Since STing, I stopped nursing to sleep so it's new as of about 1.5 months ago. The last time we spoke, I agreed to allow him to nap in my arms for the 30 min afternoon nap. I can hold him like that without nursing so that's what happened. Then he refused bedtime...then nap 1.

Right now, this is the routine

wu 7am
n1 10-12pm (I'm only able to do this after a short a time because of nursing/sleeping on me)
n2 3-4pm
bt start at 715 and has been getting harder and harder...sometimes he wont sleep until 8pm or 830pm

nw- anywhere from 1-2x...12/1am and/or 3/4am ...

other things:
-I need to continue nursing for medical reasons but on a st routine, I would never nurse to sleep except during nw. I only have a few months to go.
-he's getting molars on every side and not eating a lot of solids unless I distract and feed purees. some days, he will eat great at lunch and/or dinner
-hes very VERY clingy and cries a lot more than normal
-for a few nights recently he was actually sttn or at least until 5am. I think he likes the cold so I'm trying to keep it colder than I like
-even with sleeping on me, he still wakes up at the 1hr mark for naps. most times he will even stand and look around (when on his bed, he would wu and cry after 1hr then sleep in my arms)...1.5-2hr solid naps without waking up are rare for him. I just dont know what to do.
-before all this and the sickness, we moved the first nap up to 4hrs after wu. it still wasn't enough to get a solid 2hrs of sleep...but now that he's taking longer to sleep for bt, I'm wondering if he now needs more wake time before bed. I read that we should stick with the 2 nap schedule for as long as you think we should try 1 nap?

I feel like I no longer know when he really needs to sleep since ive been helping him a longer.
Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: Dropping the last nap issue
« Last post by Haribo2012 on June 23, 2017, 09:59:37 am »
Sometimes just getting them in bed 15 mins early helps with OT a bit x
General Sleep Issues / Re: Early Waking 9 month old
« Last post by creations on June 23, 2017, 09:52:03 am »
He did 4hr 20 between naps 1 and 2 and then slept an hour so despite the A times looking long I think your LO needs that later nap and longer first A time.  It is consistent with bec's advice too so there has been more than one person thinking the same about these early mornings and first naps times.
Based on what has happened before I feel if you don't shift that nap then you risk WU moving to 5am again.  I'd move it now before that happens.
Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: Great settling for naps but not for bedtime
« Last post by creations on June 23, 2017, 09:46:03 am »
Last few days she started falling asleep much faster than before - after i made it completely dark in her room!
That's great news! :)

Sorry if it is too detailed.
No, it's not too detailed, it's lovely and clear.  Very helpful :)

A couple of things I notice about your routine - and that doesn't mean it is "wrong", if it is all working well for you then leave it as it is, but if there are areas where you are struggling or start to struggle in the coming weeks then perhaps have a think about these:
- She's getting quite a lot of sleep, which is great if it's all working, if there is nap or BT refusal or resistance it could be that she is a little UT (under tired) and just needs a bit less sleep as she is getting older.  Some LOs are reducing one of the naps down to a CN or have even dropped one of the naps at this age and moved to 1 nap per day. Some though can continue with 2 naps for several months yet. Just something to keep in mind.
- There are quite a lot of milk feeds in the day.  At this age LO only really needs 1-2 milk feeds, if you choose to offer more because you like to extend your BF that's fine but it might be helpful to know that as a toddler her primary food now is solids.  LOs this age can join in regular meal times and eat what you are eating (with very few exceptions such as no whole nuts, low salt, no/low sugar etc) so you might consider changing her meal time experience over the coming days/weeks and eating family meals with you.
- Her first A time is very short whilst the last A time is very long in comparison. As I've said if this works, fine.  If not you might consider moving the first nap later and adjusting the day to account for that.  In your first post you said she sometimes sleeps 45 min, this can be due to the A time being too short, however 45 min might also be fine for her if the other nap is longer.
- Night waking can be due to having too much day sleep.  If she continues to sleep through the night now then again that's great. Otherwise you might consider a routine tweak to help eliminate NWs.

Perhaps see how you go for a few days.
Hmm...I think she is approaching 8 months old now, is that right? So she could well need another stretch on the A times.  That could help with resettling naps or her transitioning on her own to get the longer day sleep. And the slightly longer A time may also help to move BT a bit later so that her night sleep ends a bit later in the morning for you.
If she has never really done 12hr nights it could just be that she doesn't need or cant' do 12hr nights. Mine didn't do proper 12hr nights until he was 2.5 and all naps were dropped. When he was a baby it was 10.5 or 11hrs and I was constantly battling 5am be honest I wish I had known then what I know now, I would have shifted his BT much later to get me a better sleep.
Yeah, there's a mental leap at 18-20 weeks which could be part of it, new skills can put a spanner in the works and maybe its the regression.

Hugs xx
S 17.25 - 02.02
This is a great stretch! This is a solid stretch of almost as much sleep as she was having in 24hr when you first posted.

E 04.16 - 04.35 Tried to get back to sleep after E but she got hiccups after winding. Put her down at 5.15, she woke smiling, down again at 5.30, she woke smiling so left her to play in her basket. A 1hr 40 S 06.25 - 07.55
This here I'd still call night with extended happy wakings rather than saying she got up for the day at 4:35 and had a 1:40 A time given that you about an hour trying to get her back to sleep.

S 12.35 - 13.21 couldn't extend.
This here is a 45min nap - classically UT or 4 month old cannot transition from cycle to next.

A 1hr 40 S 09.35 - 10.00 (​first ​WD 7mins) tried 3 times to ​put​ her down but she woke each time so let her sleep on my shoulder​. ​S 10.20 - 10.55
This I think might be UT too.

A ​1hr 30 S 14.49 - 16.20 started WD at 1hr 20 because she was really cranky and kept rubbing her nose and eyes. I know this is a short A time and you said in one of your earlier posts not to go for short A times as I'll just get UT naps but I wasn't sure how to extend? She didn't wake happy, but I couldn't get her back to sleep.
Its ok to reduce A times a bit if she's had a short nap, just don't start the day off with a short A time because that perpetuates the problem. This looks like a 1.5hr nap to me. Babies will not always wake happy, even if their routine is perfect. That's not necessarily a good yardstick for deciding if the nap was good. My son screamed when he woke if things were different in his room (ie. if I had been there when he fell asleep, he wasn't happy if I wasn't there when he woke.)

BT 18.00​E​ 18.30 - 18.45
What do you mean by BT here? BT to me is baby is being laid into bed for sleep having had pre-bed routine including feed.

I didn't want to try for another nap as it would get too close to BT. What should I have done?
I think that's reasonable. I think I'd have aimed to have her in bed asleep for the night at 6:30pm or done a catnap for say 30-45min at 6pm then aimed for asleep in bed at 8pm.

I know I shouldn't be thinking about it but I'm sooo aware of the ticking clock, as in after 6months it'll be hard to change some of these bad habits.
You're not working from a completely awful place though, you've made a lot of progress and you can take the long view so I think you'll be ok. Its not actually necessarily all difficult at 6 month or after that. I got DS from sleeping with props to independent sleep in a couple of weeks at 5 months (didn't find this website til then and I was in all sorts of trouble) and it was fine. Try not to work yourself up too much about that.

I suggest a plan going forward that looks a bit like this:
1. Assume that WU is around 7-8am, yk, the end of what you're currently calling your first nap.
2. If she's happy in bed, leave her if its in the small hours of the morning. Its so frustrating for you and for her and actually counterproductive for you to be trying to get her to sleep at that hour. If she's upset, attend to her of course but if she's happily lying in bed gurgling at 5am, leave her to it.
3. From that 7-8am WU, do 2hr A time then offer a nap. Offer it however you need to, to get her to sleep but I suspect you'll have some luck with shush/pat or similar in a familiar sleeping place like wherever she falls asleep at night.
4. Reduce A times if necessary to no less than 1:30 but preferably 1:45 if she's had a short nap. If she then takes a long nap, do 2hr A time thereafter.
General Sleep Issues / Re: Early Waking 9 month old
« Last post by JCN on June 23, 2017, 06:25:07 am »
I wonder if some of the night disturbance was due to a bit of OT rather than because he's had a longer morning nap - what do you think?

I could be wrong of course. It is all a bit of a guess. He is already on long times and low sleep levels for age which is why I am veering more towards thinking a bit of OT rather than UT.

That first nap was very good though.  If you can continue to get a fully restorative sleep there I think he could eventually sleep better at night.

I do agree that the longer nap skewed the rest of the day. He is not used to sleeping for such a long period in the day and I think it messed up the rest of the day - on both our parts.

Yesterday was a very different day, with rubbish naps (although I did successfully push them back an extra 15mins) but improved night time sleep.
After quite a few night wakings,and being extremely difficult to resettle from 4:00am onwards,  he eventually woke at 5:30am and the day panned out like this....

WU 5:30

S 9:30-10:10 (did not manage to resettle)
*we went out later in the morning and he also had 10-15mins in the car at around 11:30am

S 2:30-3:35

BT 19:00

NWs- 21:00, 02:30 (both times I left him a couple of mins before going in and he self settled before I decided to get up)
WU 5:30

I'm worried about pushing that morning nap another 15mins today as it will mean he's been awake over 4hours...
Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: Dropping the last nap issue
« Last post by sszskristy on June 23, 2017, 05:12:04 am »
Hi on the nursery days are they full days?

We did have a few 5.45pm BT when the nap was gone especially on nursery day, it doesn't last long prob couple of weeks until DS1 got more used to it and often he'd take a 20 min CN on non nursery days if i was driving at the right time.

Hi thanks for replying. The nursery day normally is from 9:30 to 4:00. So maybe earlier than 6 bedtime on those days?
Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: Great settling for naps but not for bedtime
« Last post by Mia.Sky on June 23, 2017, 03:51:57 am »
Awesome! thank you!

Last few days she started falling asleep much faster than before - after i made it completely dark in her room!
here is our daily routine:

she slept through the night the night before!
7.10 WU
7.15 milk
8.15 breakfast (oatmeal with raisins, blueberries and hemp seeds)
8.45-9.45 A
9.50 milk
10.00-11.30 S
11.35 snack (a few pieces of apple)
12.30 lunch (quinoa, veggies, tofu)
1.00-2.00 A
2.20 milk
2.30-3.40 S
3.50 snack cashew yogurt + mango puree
4.30-6.30 A
5.00 dinner - berries (usually for dinner i give her avocado, cheese, carrots and peas)
6.40 shower
6.50 cereal + milk
7.00-7.40 bedtime routine (brush teeth, prayer, blowing the candle, change diaper, PJ, read books, hugs, kisses
8.00 Asleep
3.00 NF
7.20 WU

Sorry if it is too detailed.
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