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Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: Suddenly wound up at bedtime
« Last post by Lilo's mom on June 21, 2018, 18:59:53 pm »
Mommies, please help me understand now... So DD was fussy at bedtime and she kept on waking up in the middle of the night and remained awake for 1-2h.

Then... I left for a work travel and I've been out for 10 days now. DH is the one taking care of everything and... guess what? No bedtime fussiness or night wakings.

What is happening? Is mom bothering the house dynamics??   ???

But seriously now, I wanted some advice on how to do things when I am back. I am getting home Saturday AM and DH will travel for work Sunday night. (we don't usually travel this much, it was actually an unfortunate coincidence). I am very much afraid that DD starts night waking again just to check out if mom's in. I thought of asking DH to do her bedtime routine (it's usually mine) - so, I'd spend the whole day Saturday with them and them at night daddy takes care of her - kind of an intermediate way to be back to the routine - afterall, Sunday night I will have to do it again as he'll travel.

What do you think???

Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: Nap not happening every day ?
« Last post by Chloevalentine on June 21, 2018, 18:03:29 pm »
Day 2 of no nap! My day starts at 630 when little one gets up and there’s zero downtime with two kids until my oldest goes to bed around 830! What a long and exhausting day!
Naps / Re: Naps going to pot again
« Last post by Tilsley1471 on June 21, 2018, 14:01:11 pm »
That's ok - I'm just so grateful whenever you're able to help :-)

I'm still having issues with this pm nap. With a 3hr 30 A time I used to get good naps and as it went shorter I extended it to 3hr 40 but she was just OT. So I've taken it back to 3hr 30 and I'm still getting wake ups in tears after 35 mins and then after 10-15 mins I can eventually resettle her for another 35-40 mins. I think she is OT as when she was UT she would wake happy from these 35 min naps and I just could not settle her. I'm wondering if I should take it back to 3hr 20 although I don't understand why her AM nap is an hour or more on 3hr 30 A time but she may need less A time between 1st and 2nd nap? Or am I reading it completely wrong and she needs more A time between 1st and 2nd nap (although I'm hesitant to try more as she's just waking in tears).
Night Wakings / Re: 8 month old started waking at night
« Last post by Mummy1982 on June 21, 2018, 13:51:23 pm »
Hello - I’m back once again!

We are now doing a 45 min morning nap - generally 9.45 to 10.30 when he wakes at 6ish. However I then put him down at 2 but we’re only getting 40 min naps and he’s screaming when we wakes up with no resettle. Should I postpone the afternoon nap a bit?
Sleeping For Toddlers / 13 months night wakings/night weaning
« Last post by mommykay410 on June 21, 2018, 12:52:42 pm »

I'm about past my wits end at this point with DS's sleep  ??? >:(  He is 13 months old and has never slept through the night.  There was always some issue or another that was waking him at night over the course of the last year, first itching, then gas, then pooping.  And now that I have solved each of those problems and he is still waking, I have no idea what to do with him. 

I have weaned him from all daytime BFs, but I still nurse him at night when he wakes, if only for my own sanity so I can get back to sleep sooner.  But I would really like to wean him completely because at this point I am sure it has become a prop, which it never was before.  I know that is my fault because I am too tired to deal with him crying and screaming if I just try to pat him or rock him back to sleep when he wakes, so I give in to nursing him.  The worst is when he wakes around 5am and I nurse him and keep him on me in the rocking chair until he wakes for the day because I'm afraid to move him back to his crib and risk him waking up again and then him be up already for the day.  He has a cow's milk allergy, so he is not getting any supplemental source of liquid calories at all, ie. a cup of whole milk before bed like most kids would get at this point.  (I was giving him oat milk for a little while, but that was causing him to poop constantly.)

He falls asleep on his own just fine for both night and nap.  And he generally takes a decent 1.5-2.5 hr nap in the afternoon after and A time of around 6hrs/6hr15min. 

Here are his times for the last week:
6/14 awake 5:55 (way too early), nap 12-2:30, sleep 7:20, wake 9:30, 3:30, 5:20
6/15 awake 6:20, nap 12:25-1:55, sleep 7:20, wake 10:05, 3:30, 5:05
6/16 awake 6:15, nap 12:25-2:15, sleep 7:20, wake 12:45, 3:45
6/17 awake 6:00, naps in car 11:30-12, 5:45-6:20, sleep 7:40, wake 9:20, 11:15, 3:15, 5:05
6/18 awake 6:15, nap 12:25-1:45, sleep 7:15, wake 1:55, 5:00
6/19 awake 6:00, nap 12:15-2:00, sleep 7:15, wake 9:45, 3:30, 5:20
6/20 awake 6:20, nap 12:40-1:45, sleep 7:05, wake 11:35, 2:30, 4:55, awake for day at 6:20

Ideally I'd like him to wake up for the day in his crib at 6:30, but he never makes it that far.  He used to wake up for the day between 7-7:20, so I have no idea what happened to that haha. 
Any thoughts on what I can do to get him to stop waking and nursing would be great!
Sleeping For Toddlers / Nap not happening every day ?
« Last post by Chloevalentine on June 21, 2018, 11:01:03 am »
We’ve gotten through a month of messed up nap schedules due to my older son finishing school and needing to be picked up so school runs interfered with los nap. So now My almost 2 year old is napping randomly. This week he only napped if we spent the morning at the lake if we didn’t he wouldn’t fall asleep. He had been doing 130-3 on the days he does nap. He usually wakes around 630 sometimes earlier and when he naps late he doesn’t usually falll sleep until around 8. Is he trying to give up nap or is it just because his big brother is now home at nap time and he’s too nosey to nap. I wa hoping with this child that he wouldn’t give up naps so young like his older brother. What’s a typical routine like for a 2 year old ?
General Sleep Issues / Re: 6 month old no longer settling at night time- Help!
« Last post by Sarahmm on June 21, 2018, 10:12:18 am »
Thank you I’ll give that a try and see! Will let you know my progress!
Naps / Re: 12 weeks on short naps help EASY routine
« Last post by creations on June 21, 2018, 10:06:19 am »
Hello and welcome to BW forums.

Sorry to see you didn't get a reply yet, we do try to ensure all threads receive a reply within 24 hrs but it is not always possible.

Please please please stop feeling like a failure as a mother.  You are NOT a failure.  You have done everything you possibly could for your little baby.
Please do not feel that you have done everything wrong, or anything!  Babies need holding and babies need feeding these are not the wrong things to do for your LO, you have shown your LO lots of love and support and care, and that is what a GOOD mummy does. Please let go of the guilt.

Breast feeding on demand is the best start for your baby.  Yes some habits can form if you feed to sleep but this can be weaned, don't worry.  The benefits of BF in terms of getting the best food and the best comfort and bonding opportunity is worth any kind of AP or habit that has happened.  Don't worry.

Shush/pat for new borns is generally started in arms and continued until LO is asleep in the early days (then they are put in the cot) - this is what you have done and it is totally fine. Again don't worry.  The bonding gained by holding and soothing your baby is priceless, you have done him good, not harm.  Sure you might be exhausting yourself and it might not be sustainable long term (holding a new born for sleep is quite easy compared to holding a toddler for sleep when they are super heavy and you start to get a bad back, bad wrist etc), that's the idea behind the EASY routine and methods of sleep training, to aim for a respectful and sustainable method of soothing and helping your baby to sleep whilst also taking care of yourself.  But you must never feel you did the wrong thing by holding and comforting your baby.  Cuddles are never a bad thing :)
Many people do not find BW until their LO is much older and whatever age your LO is we can support you and help you to work towards a suitable routine and sleep training methods.
The only thing we don't agree with here is leaving a baby to cry alone, no controlled crying, no crying it out.

Let me see if I can answer some of your questions.
Last few days I managed to successfully shush pat DS to sleep in his cot,
This is great :)  Doing the WD (wind down, the 4s) is fine in arms but getting him to actually nod off in the cot is wonderful progress. It is always okay to lift him back up if he is too agitated or unsettled, shush/pat in arms and again lay him down when calm. Each baby is an individual so there is no timing restriction on this process, you do what is needed, and put down when suitable.  For instance I learned with my LO that he needed to be in his cot before the "seven mile stare" because otherwise his view point changed and he would have to start all over again with the process of falling to sleep staring at a new spot, also when he woke mid nap he needed his seven mile stare to have the same spot to stare at.  We had previously been winding down sitting and actually this had caused his seven mile stare spot to be a plant behind me in the corner of the room (strong tonal contrast between the light wall and the dark plant) so when I moved him to the cot he didn't like it - getting him in the cot first really helped once he found his new spot and got used to it.

You might find that if you continue to shush/pat beyond the 30 mins your LO will learn to stay asleep longer.  Shush/pat is advised to continue for 20 mins after sleep to help LO get to the deep sleep stage, if though your LO is waking at 30 mins I would go beyond that time to help him.  It might be possible for you to shush/pat to sleep, leave for 10 mins to get yourself a super fast cuppa, and go back in to see him through the 30 min mark.  Shush/pat for as long as needed, pick up if necessary and continue in arms to calm him.

His nap is so short, i often struggle to keep to the routine of 3 hours unless I successfully extend his nap, what should I do here?
If LOs do not sleep the full nap they might be hungry earlier than the 3hr E time. In this case feed earlier, it's fine.  There is no requirement to feed after every wake up though so if you tried for a nap and it was short you don't automatically need to feed if it's only been 2hr and he is not hungry.

how do I extend his nap if he gets agitated and not let me shush pat him back to sleep
The description I gave above about starting shush/pat before he wakes is called W2S (wake to sleep) here is a FAQ
Look at naps option 1.  You always adapt to suit your LO.
This method is really helpful because you begin soothing before he fully wakes so there is great chance of success.
If he does fully wake and you try to resettle I would suggest not continuing for more than 40 mins, if he is on the verge of sleep then maybe more than 40 mins but if he is kick up a big fuss then perhaps less than 40 mins.  If you are starting to feel frustrated give up on that nap and get on with your A time - it isn't worth the upset.

Would it be wise for me if I perhaps put DS to have 1 nap using the sling/wrap to help him sleep longer. will that affect his sleep train. ( I would hate for him to get another AP prop) ultimately i hope eventually he can sleep independently.
Lots of people work on one nap at a time.  If you would like to do this it is fine. LOs tend to form habits so I would suggest if you chose one nap for the cot do that same nap every day in the cot for consistency. If you choose one (or more) naps in the sling or pram then do the same ones each day.  This way you are likely to form the cot habit more easily rather than switching it about every day.
Whilst it might take longer overall doing one nap per day it is easier on parents and helps to keep LO better rested.  Don't worry about it.  Once one nap is in place in the cot you can choose another to work on.  You might also decide you want to keep a nap or two outside the cot, this can make it much easier to attend BF groups or other baby groups. Again, if it's possible try to go out the same time each day.  it's actually very handy to have a LO who can sleep in the sling or pram, mine wouldn't (independent sleeper in his cot) and it did cause me some struggles which I had to deal with.

Since starting on EASY routine, I have basically not brought him down to the living room and kept him in our room to avoid further stimulation but now i am beginning to wonder whether I should have ( he sleeps in his own cot but its attached to our bed.) what is your opinion about that
It sounds to me like this is probably not particularly good for your own sanity.
I know you care about your LO and are worried about the amount of sleep he is getting but you must also take care of yourself.  Sitting in one room, frequently a darkened room, shush/patting the day away is not good for anyone's mood.  Your LO will also learn the difference between "day" and "night" or "nap" by where you are in the house too.  When it is Activity time, go and do something in a nicely lit room with the sun coming in, or get outside.  Go to a baby group or for a walk, get some fresh air and sun.
As said before you can choose one nap to work on and dedicate that part of the day to really focusing on the sleep training. Then get out somewhere.

Your EASY.
Looking at your times I would suggest you try to start your wind down a bit earlier and aim to have LO asleep by 1hr 20 or 1hr 30 since he woke from his night sleep or previous nap.  Your first A time is a touch long for his age, it is impossible to get it spot on because you are shush/patting and hoping for him to nod off, I know, but if you start a bit earlier you might get him to sleep by 1hr 20 and this may help his nap length.

After the first nap I suggest you time the A time, we look for sleep cues but watching the clock can also be helpful. A time is all the time from when he wakes to when he sleeps, it including any time spent when he was awake and you were trying to resettle and any time you are doing wind down.  On your sample the A time between nap 1 and nap 2 is almost 2hr 20.  This is likely because you've been focusing on trying to get on the EASY routine and this is one way of sleep training by sticking to set times for a while, but it is quite hard too.  Instead note the time he wakes from nap 1, try to get him back to sleep but if he doesn't then use the wake up time as the start of the A and aim to get him back to sleep by 1hr 20 again.  This will help to avoid OT.  Some people even reduce the A time following a short nap, if he is looking very tired and giving signals you can put him down earlier, say 1hr.

he was basically breast fed to sleep
It doesn't look like you are still feeding to sleep. If you are we can look at ways to gradually wean this so that it moves from sleep time.

I hope this helps some. Sorry there is so much to read and wade through when you must be feeling so short of time and very tired.
Please feel welcome to ask further questions and to post updates on how you are getting on.
And please, no more guilt, you are a great mum and have been doing all you have through love and care :)
Naps / Re: 8 months, longer A times
« Last post by creations on June 21, 2018, 09:14:56 am »
To be honest I think I'd stick with what you have unless it is becoming a problem for you.  The A times and naps look good, night is a decent length it's only that you start and end the day later than some families.  If BT started to get a lot later than this then I'd suggest reducing nap2 a little, say cap 10 or 15 mins earlier to make a 1hr nap instead of 1hr 15 and then bring BT earlier.  Over the coming months that nap might need to reduce more until it is a CN and is eventually dropped.  At the moment with the A times being comfortable (she goes to sleep well) you could start he naps at the same time and just cap nap 2.  If/when her morning A time needs to increase (eg nap refusal or nap goes short due to UT) then you would move nap 1 a bit later and put down for nap 2 a bit later but cap it at the same time so that you can keep BT the same.

With regards to the night feeds, it's perfectly normal for a BF baby to need one or more night feeds for a good few months yet. I am not sure aiming to wean all the feeds would be advisable at this point.

hope that helps.
Sleeping For Toddlers / Re: 13 month old naps gone wonky. need help!
« Last post by creations on June 21, 2018, 09:07:43 am »
The 2-1 was difficult for me.  My DS was also non-APOP-able too. However, what you've described as almost falling asleep in your arms holding her blanket is the kind of thing that you might need to do to APOP.  For me, I found DS would kick up a huge fuss if I tried to take him to his cot but if I put loud pop music on in the living room and held him whilst dancing (quite vigorous bopping about and singing!) he would begin with a smile and laughing but eventually snuggle into me, I had to keep going and it was quite an exercise workout for me holding him and dancing for an hour!! Very hard work but I must have felt it was worth it to get him to sleep a bit.  I think that was when he was refusing his second nap but couldn't cope a full day on one nap only.
When he moved to just one nap that was also awful, he stopped taking his regular 2hr consistent nap he'd always done and started waking every 20 mins (clear OT) so I had to put him back to sleep numerous times which was also hard work. Finally I managed to do a W2S every 20 mins through the nap
instead of him waking I'd nip in at 19 min put a hand on him, say my key phrase, rock with my hand a bit and he'd transition through. I was only in there 2 mins.  then 19 min later I went back in to do it again.  the things we do for our LOs!!

Not sure when your ideal 1 nap time would be for you, you mentioned being out for appointments in the morning but could you possibly manage a 12 noon nap after a 7am WU?  That's 5hrs you thought she can manage.  If she does 2hr nap you either do BT at 6pm and hope fora longer night or push later and get possible NWs.
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