4 MONTH OLD CRIES FOR 2-3 HOURS BEFORE SHE FALLS ASLEEP AT BEDTIME...NEW AT THIS

[HOPE777]

My four month old has just started crying for two-three hours at night before she falls asleep. She is a wonderful baby, text book child. I do have her on the EASY schedule and it works great for both of us. I give her a bath every night before bed to wind down so she knows that it's bedtime. This is all new to us and we don't really know what to do. I go into her room every five to ten minutes and put the paci in, or just to rub her back or tickle her face. I'm open for all the help and encouragement I can get. What do I need to do or don't do. Thank you so much....Jillyscoop

[Kimberly®]

whats your routine for the day right now? That would be a lot of help. Include feeding times and amounts, and nap times and lengths please.

Is the Paci a prop now maybe?

[momofclaire]

Hi and welcome to the boards!
Can you post her daily routine for me? Sometimes a look at that can be really helpful.
When you say you go in every five or 10 minutes is she crying that whole time? How long has this been going on?  Could she be teething, going through a growth spurt?  Do you bf or ff?  Has she started solids? 
I know that is a lot of questions to answer but it helps to have a bit more info so I can look at the whole picture.
Post back and I will try to help.
Myia

[Peek-a-boo]

Hi Jill,

I just received you pm asking for information about pick up/put down; I thought I'd post here so that all of the advice you get is in one spot.   

You have some really knowledgable and helpful folks already asking all the right questions.  If your daughter was falling asleep independently before, then pu/pd probably isn't going to be your solution.  There's probably something about your routine that needs to be adjusted.  Pick up/put down is normally used to teach independent sleep to babies who have always been put to sleep with props before.  However, if you're feeling really helpless in that 2-3 hours before she falls asleep and you don't want to leave her alone to cry (rightly so--it's important to be there with her), pu/pd might be a useful strategy. 

Here are a few links with ideas.  It can be helpful to do a great wind down with her.  Here's a link that describes the 4 S wind down that Tracy outlines in the book:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.0  It's also important to make sure that her room is dark enough (block out the windows with great shades or black paper if necessary).  Using a fan or something like that for white noise can also be helpful sometimes. 

If she's having trouble settling, I would first try helping by using sh/pat.  Here's a description of how to do that:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26671.0

If that's not working, you can move to pu/pd.  Here's a link where you can read about it in more detail:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69177.0  However, here are the adaptions specifically for 4 month old babies:

To sum it up the basic procedure when you child cries is;

·   Place your hand on their back or chest and say your key phrase in a low tone, eg. ‘it’s only sleep’ or ‘it’s sleepy time’.  You always try in the crib first as this is the ultimate goal.
·   If this doesn’t work you pick them up, say the phrase and as soon as they calm you put them down.  If they start to cry on the way down, you still put them down. 
·   If they are still crying you pick them up again. 
·   If the child is truly fighting you, arching etc you don’t hold at all, you put them right down after you say the phrase and then pick them up again. 
·   You do this over and over until you see signs your baby is settling.  Typically their cries will become weaker; they may look for their hands etc.  They may also begin to mantra cry, you do not pick up on a mantra cry as they are attempting to settle themselves. 
·   When you see this settling behaviour you don’t pick them up anymore.  Leave them in the crib, place your hand on them and say your phrase. Now you let go, stand back and see what happens. 
·   If they start up again, you start the whole process over beginning with attempting to soothe in the crib.

It is very important to adjust the basic procedure according to your baby’s age, as follows;

4 MONTHS OLD - you would follow the procedure above with the following adaptations; 

·   If they are swaddled and it become loose, you need to re swaddle. 
·   You only hold them a maximum of 5 minutes.  If they don’t settle in 5 minutes you put them down and pick up again if they are still upset. 
·   In between each pu/pd you attempt to soothe with shush/pat in the crib.   
·   If the shush-pat doesn’t work you pick them up again, continuing to shush/pat in your arms if you wish.
·   So, put them down the second they stop crying, start to settle or a maximum of 5 minutes.

Again, I think that pu/pd isn't your long term solution.  If she's been falling asleep well before this, I'm guessing there's really something going on either with her routine or her health that is at the root cause of this.  I hope this info helps so that if she's crying you at least have a strategy for coping with it a bit.  Is it definitely better to be there by her side as she tries to settle.  If she's crying a true "I need you" cry and you leave her in the crib alone, she may start to be afraid of her crib and things can get worse.  Start with sh/pat and try to just be a soothing presence there for her. 

Hope that helps!  Myia and Kimberly are fabulous so they'll probably have some great insights for you once they see the details of your day.

Bethany

[momofclaire]

Thanks so much Bethany. 

[HOPE777]

This is Jill and I just wanted to thank you all for the help and advice you've given me already. I've been very busy today all the way up until midnight and I just wanted you to know that I will be putting her schedule up tomorrow for you to see. Thank you again for all your help....oh and by the way...last night she only cried for an hour and tonight less than a hour. I think it may be that she is teething also.....Jill

[HOPE777]

THIS IS HOPES SCHEDULE:

WAKE-UP: 6:00
EAT:         6-6:30 AM 5oz
SLEEP:    6:30-9
ACTIVITY:9-10:20
SLEEP:     10:20-11:10
EAT:        11:30  5oz
ACTIVITY:11:50-1:10
SLEEP:     1:10-1:50
ACTIVITY:1:50-3:45
EAT:        3:45  4oz
ACTIVITY: 3:45-5:15
SLEEP:      5:15-6:00
AND THE REST OF THE NIGHT WE HAD ACTIVITY TIME...SWING, TUMMY TIME ....LAYING ON THE FLOOR AND ETC. HOPE HAS NEVER BEEN ONE TO TAKE LONG NAPS. SHE TAKES ABOUT 40 MINUTE NAPS USUALLY AND THEN WAKES UP AND PLAYS AGAIN AND THEN PLAYS FOR A BIT THEN USUALLY TAKES ANOTHER NAP BEFORE FEEDING AGAIN. AND ANOTHER THING IS THAT WHEN SHE TURNED FOUR MONTHS SHE STARTED EATING EVERY FOUR HOURS INSTEAD OF 3. AND SHE HAS BEEN TEETHING ALSO, SO THIS MAY BE A REASON WHY SHE HAS BEEN CRYING AT NIGHT. WELL THIS IS IT AND JUST LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ALL THINK ......THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME...JILL AND HOPE

[momofclaire]

Jill,
I think part of the problem is Hope's short naps. Have you done anything to extend them?  A nap less than an hour at her age really isn't that resorative.  She should be taking 1.5 hour naps (3 of them) or 2, 1.5 hour naps and a 45 min evening nap to get her through till bedtime.  Maybe have a look in the nap forum for some help on how to extend those. 
It is great that she is eating every four hours. 

[becky1969]

I agree with PP - your naps are too short, so she's probably a bit OT all day long, and then by bedtime she is just so knackered she cries because she's having a difficult time settling.

It also looks like you have your Eat and Activity reversed? We usually do EAS and then Y. So, as soon as she wakes up we E, then we have A, and then S.  In the middle of the day you have an AEAS.  That happens as they get older, but I think she's still too young to have two activity periods before a sleep.

At this age, I think my LO was doing about 1hr45-2h of activity, but we had moved on to a 4 hour EASY, so that there were 4 hours between feeds.  You're doing 4-5 hours between feeds? That may be too much.  You just need to consolidate her feeds and her activity, and then I think the sleep will start working out.  Also, not sure what your bedtime is? That last sleep from 5:15-6 pm is perfect for a catnap, but may be a bit too late for a nice 6-7 pm bedtime.

Also, when you have that 6:30 AM feed, and then put her back to bed, I think she's treating it like an extention of nighttime sleep - that's your longest nap time!  So, you may want to see if you can treat that 6 am wake up as the start of your day and see where you get.  Keep her up after that, and then have a normal nap time.  Your routine might look something like this:

6 am wake and feed
6:30-7:30  activity
7:45/8-9:45/10 sleep

10 feed
10:30-11:30 activity
11:45/12-2 sleep

2 feed
2:30-3:30 activity
3:45-4:30 sleep

4:30-5:00 activity
5-5:30 feed
5:30-6:00 wind down for bed
6:30 asleep for the night

10:30 dream feed

Don't know if you're doing a dream feed or not, but chances are she needs a feed between 6:30 pm and 6:30 am (you don't say if she's waking in the night for a feed). At four months, there's also a growth spurt, so between that and teething it could disrupt her nights.

See if you can't alter it a bit this way, and see how it goes. I know waking at 6 am does NOT seem like a fun thing to do, but you can probably slowly adjust this routine (once it is in place) so that she has a 7-7 day.  That will happen if you add in a dream feed and as she is able to go longer between the dream feed and waking.

BTW, if you haven't done a dream feed before, you need to give it a good 7 days before deciding that its not working. It takes a baby several days to adjust to any routine change.  I was totally ready to give up after 3 days because he was still waking at 4-5 am for a feed. But my DH convinced me to stick with it, and by day 5 or 6 he started sleeping until 7-8 am! Bliss! So, just keep with it!


HTH! Let us know how you're getting on!