Need some advice after a bad week of sleep for my 21month old.

[debo620]

We have had a very rough week with terrible NW, okay naps, but not one 11hr night.

so usual rouitne (well maybe 2months ago):
wake 6:30
nap 12-2
bed 7-asleep by 7:30

in the last week, we have had bad NW usually around 2/2:30am----and he sometimes stays awake for 2hrs or so. I think because he has already had 7hrs of sleep by this point, and he'll talk/cry/talk/laugh/cry etc. I usually stand at his door and tell him its night time every time he cries, which he does settle for a while--but usually he's still awake for up to 2hrs. so these seem like OT NW to me.
he'll then wake up a bit later maybe 7am
still nap 12-2
bed early at 6:30---and he's asleep by 7
but then we repeat that night.

Saturday night was better, he was awake probably only 1hr, and woke at 6:30---so probably got about 10.5 that night, napped 12-2:10 Sunday
was asleep by 7pm

but woke at 5am today, he stayed in his room with some complaining until 7am.

so I think he is OT, but what the heck should I do with a 5am wake?
I think I'll try for a short 10min catnap around 10am, and then long nap around 12
If he refuses the catnap, I'll probably try for one nap at 11:30.
but should I put him to bed before 6:30pm?

my DH and I are now fighting about this as I just can't seem to catch a  break with Noah's sleep. he insists that I am putting him to bed early, which I know I'm not since he is visibally tired,
on top of that,
daylight savings is less then 2weeks away and our clocks will be moving back by 1 hour!

any advice, what should I do today?

[debo620]

Thanks Stacy, well yah I do think he only needs 12.5hrs. I mean we were only getting 13hrs when he was 12months old. So I think 12.5 is realisitic. but I don't think he has had 12.5hrs one day this week.
actually I think his need really changed in August, thats when I noticed that if he slept 2hrs following a 11hr night--he'd be up playing that night.
somehow these NW are different---more crying involved which is why I think they are more from OT. definately a developmental stage may be having an affect with an explosion is vocab--but I don't know to what to extent.
last week the naps were consistantly 1.5hrs, and the nights were around 11hrs, but then the NW started and here we are in a mess.

yesterday, I actually put him to bed at 6:45. thinking he had had a good nap so maybe he would play for awhile--but he went straight to sleep and woke 10hrs later---OT right?
maybe DH should of put him down for his nap earlier yeterday, thus he would have been up earlier and a bit more A time before bed and maybe a better nights sleep.
 
what would you do with a 5am wake? I do want to let him have a 2hr nap---his eyes are so red!
what time should I aim to have him asleep by?, asleep by 7pm seems like a very long day!

Thanks so much Stacy, I really appreciate your advice.

[debo620]

well Stacy----things have been better---11hr nights and 2hr naps, maybe he was catching up a bit, I'm also really trying to move things forward--because of daylight savings,

so yesterdays nap was 12:15-2:15
in bed for 7:15 thinking he would play for a bit, but he went straight to quiet (sleeping?) and woke at 6:45 or 7am this morning.
I fed him luch at 12
in bed for 12:15--thinking he'd maybe play and then fall asleep
well its 1pm and he has been playing forever, I've gone in there once as he was calling---but now he is calling again "mama",
god what am i going to to do if doesn't fall asleep soon?
how long should I try for?

I have a DR appt at 2:30----so my parents are coming here, and gosh I don't want to leave them with a child who hasn't slept yet, and they won't be able to get him to go to sleep either. 

[debo620]

finally asleep at 1:15pm, gosh I feel bad he could have been playing with me that time....he was really quite happy,
and so cute after lunch, he now says "na time" and was giving me big hugs...so I thought i had the timing right.

anyway, I'll se how long he sleeps and hopefully I am able to push his bedtime out to have him asleep by 7:45 or something.

[debo620]

well yesterdays nap was crap, woke at 2:30pm, and then we had a terrible night.
in bed for 7pm, but had a tough time falling asleep, quiet and then crying--asleep at 7:45, awake from 1:30-4am. talking, crying, hyserically crying by 3:30---I slept on his floor and finally back to sleep. OT I guess from short nap yesterday. was happy all afternoon though, and maybe I should of put him to bed earlier..

woke at 7:20
asleep I hope now at 12:30 (20mins of playing)

aargh...just needed to vent.
no wonder I don't have the energy to meal plan LOL

[debo620]

no I can't do it on less then 10hrs last night, what do I have to lose? other then my sanity and patience with a spirited, grumpy, OT toddler? hmmm...let me think on that!

I mean his nap yesterday was short 1.25hrs, and then an awful night----OT, because he was crying and crying 
in the last week we havn't had short nights or bad nights followng 2hr naps---infact its been the opposite. 

anway, off to try and replace or buy some tupperware, man is it difficult to find a sales lady!

[debo620]

well I do hear what you are saying, so thankyou for that...

[rinajack]

I actually agree with Stacy.  Zara only averages 11.5-12 hours, and I know this is very much on the low end, but that is a recent drop of a good 1/2 hr.

She also only does a 10 hr night, so keep that in mind too, that is all she needs.

If we have an early wakeup (and LOTS of things make Zara wake, not just OT) then we aim for quiet time mid morning - not a nap, but I have taught her about relaxing, and if she seems a bit tired or a bit grumpy she has to relax on her lounge in front of the TV - as little or as long as she likes, she always gets up off the lounge in a better mood.  A couple times she fell asleep doign this, but she was sick at the time.

That way I can keep nap time about the same give or take 1/2 hr, and then I don't have to do too many early bedtimes either.

Zara was taking ages to fall asleep for naps and nights (nights were over an hour) but then I moved bedtime 15-30 mins later and things have smoothed out again.  (None of these times are exact, so hard to be exact now that I have two babies LOL).

Also just wanted to add - Zara has started asking for her relaxing time, and occasional for bedtime.  Often the times she asks she does not seem tired nor grumpy - I think what she is asking for is some time to herself iykwim - she is intoverted, and time alone allows her to recharge her batteries.

[tinachris]

Our LO - who is now 1 year 9 mths old - was and sometimes is still hard to get to bed since a few weeks (over 1 hour sometimes in the evening...) - after we figured out that that was often the case when he had 2 hours and longer naps. His usual bedtime is around 7:30 sometimes 8; his naptime is at about 12:30. He sleeps almost 11 hours at night and is best with 1h15 - 1h30 naps. To make it short @debo620 I would also give it a try and wake him up earlier when having a nap - can't loose much...

[debo620]

well Ithankyou for your comments...
I do think that Noah only maybe needs 1.5-1hr 45min naps, but right now I think he is getting over some bad sleep in general and it just cumulatively OT. so until he is awake in the night actually playing or waking super early or taking forever to fall asleep, then I'm going to just let things be.


last nights waking was OT after 11.5hr night and a 1.25hr nap. he probably slept about 9.5hrs last night, so he NEEDED at least 2hrs today. he is a touchy sleeper and I am not anxious to upset things even more.

so he had his 2hr nap today-- I had to wake him, from 12:30-2:30
was in bed at 7pm and asleep within minutes. ( I didn't hear him at all)