New here and I need some tips...PLEASE

[mommatonate]

Hi.  I have been reading the posts here for about a week now.  My ds is 7 months and has silent reflux.  He is on neocate and prevacid and is FINALLY happy and comfortable.  He is such a good baby for the most part (now).  I am afraid it is too late to change our bad habits.  He has been used to comfort feeding for so long and now it is just getting out of hand.  I want to start the E.A.S.Y but I am so lost on how.  I have the newest book but I just feel so overwhelmed.  He is on a pretty good schedule, it's the same everyday.  The kicker is this...he falls asleep to me rocking him with a bottle (I know, I know, but it was the only way in the begining with the TERRIBLE reflux).  He is a big baby (23lbs) so it's not like he still has to eat every 3 hours like this.  I JUST NOW was able to intro solids...he is also MSPI and we had some BAD experiences with store bought babyfood so I make it.  He is doing great with my food and has been on solids for about 2 weeks now.  I still give him a dream feed at 1:30pm before I go to sleep.  He tries to wake up every 2-3 hours STILL.  For the past couple of nights, I have ignored the FUSSING (I can't ignore th NASTY cries, I just can't do it).  I was very suprised that I was able to eliminate the 1am and the 5am feeding.  I think I was going to him too soon all this time.  He can fall asleep on hiw own SOME of the time.  I really don't mind giving him his bottle before naps and bedtime b/c he doesn't fight his sleep.  It is probably not ideal for this plan for me to continue to do this.  I hope I am posting in the right place.  I hope I can get some suggestions here.  Thanks in advance.  Danie

[mommatonate]

OOPS...his dream feed is at 10:30, sorry!!

[HeatherC]

First of all, welcome to the boards.  I hope we are able to answer some of your questions.

Unfortunately, I don't have experience with reflux, especially in such as case as your ds's, but I do have experience using EASY.
You say that he doesn't always fight going to sleep.  This is great!  I know you've done an excellent job in keeping him comfortable while suffering reflux, and we all know that "you gotta do what you gotta do."  But you are right, sometimes these little "tricks of the trade," as in feeding to sleep, can backfire down the road.  If you could, post a typical day that shows us his feeding and sleep times, including length of sleep.
If it were me, I'd tackle one sleep at a time.  You know that he's healthy, he's getting plenty of nutrition, so he's not going to starve by moving his feeding time from the beginning of nap to the end.
For a baby his age, you might want to try pick up/put down.  However, I don't know how this might affect a refluxing baby, especially b/c they tend to get upset during this process.  Have you read most of Tracy's book? 
I'll wait to get some of your answers before posting anymore.  It really is key for us to have a schedule to view.

[mommatonate]

Hi and thank you!!  OK, I will post a typical day

wake at 8am
play/activity till 9am
rice cereal/fruit 9:15am
quiet play/reading
5oz bottle before nap at 10am (falls asleep during this)

wake at 11:30-12pm
play/errands till 1pm
1:15pm lunch (rice cereal/veggie)
quiet play/reading
5oz bottle before nap at 2-2:30pm (falls asleep during this)

Wake at 3:30-4pm
play/outsite/walk
5:30pm dinner (rice cereal/veggie)
play/bath/read
5oz bottle before bed at 7-7:30pm (once again, falls asleep during this)

The problems arise during the night.  He wake like clock work by 10-1:30pm for a feed and drinks 5oz.  He then tries to wake up every 2-3 hours.  I just don't know where I went wrong, I am so sad.  This is my second baby, my first son took a paci and "self soothed".  He slept 8hrs nightly since he was 3 months old...NOT Nate.  I know in the beginning it was b/c of the reflux.  We finally got on the right meds at 5 months and started solids a couple weeks ago.  I have been ignoring the fussing at night, but not the I NEED YOU cry.  Last night I eliminated the 1am feeding and the 5am feeding (he did get 5oz at 3am).  He was one of those reflux babies that would NOT eat, I had to pretty much force it.  Well, now I am paying for it.  He got so used to eating while asleep and now I feel it is too late to change it.  I cannot do CIO, just can't bear to hear him scream.  I would describe him as a spirited baby.  He doesn't have one of those "pleasant" cries if you know what I mean.  It is LOUD and to the point.  I am just not sure how I can get him to eat when he wakes up.  Hope this schedule helps you to help me.  Danie

[mommatonate]

Sorry for all the typos.  He wakes between 10-10:30pm for a feeding (not 10-1:30...sorry).  Also, he does sneak in another 5oz bottle in between his last nap and bedtime...I do have to take him into a quiet room just for him to finish his bottle, too many distractions with big brother.  Sorry I forgot this!!

[HeatherC]

Have you had a chance to look through the Reflux boards? (https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=13.0)
What I think you should consider doing is to decrease his night feedings (1 oz at a time over about 2 days), therefore, making him hungrier during the day.  Will he not feed at all upon waking in the morning?  If you could even get him to feed a little when he wakes, that would help start the process of bringing his feeding back to the beginning of EASY cycles.  But a large part of this-getting him to eat upon waking-will be to cut out the night feedings so that he will be hungry. 

I guess I have a few more questions.  Sorry, it seems like I'm asking more questions than I am answering  .
Do you have his mattress elevated to help with the reflux?
What does his doctor say about him feeding while sleepy?  Does he suggest you continue to do this, or is it okay health-wise to change this?
When he wakes 2-3 hrly at night, and you don't feed him, does he go back to sleep quickly?  What do you do to get him back to sleep?  Again, I think pu/pd would be the proper method for his age.

The more I look at your post, I really feel confident that we can change this.  You shouldn't beat yourself up over this.  You have done nothing wrong.  And, of course, BW never advocates CIO.  You are doing the right thing by going in to him when he cries. 

[mommatonate]

Hi there.  Yes, his mattress is elevated which really helps his breathing also.  As you might know, some reflux babies are congested like all the time.  This is kind of how Nate is but better now that the crib is elevated.  I have not had a chance to check out the reflux boards on this site but I plan to do so...thanks.  His doc actually told me in the past to let him CIO for up to 30 minutes, he said not past this point due to reflux flare ups during CIO.  I have done that, it made things worse on the both of us. 

I am commited to getting this done right, whatever it takes.  I will not be resistant, you guys know first hand and I trust you.  I am currently a member on another reflux board since June of this year...this is where I met the mom who pointed me in your direction...she said it worked for her. 

Back to the questions...feeding him sleepy was suggested in the begining but now I JUST KNOW he doesn't need that so I know the ped will tell me to reverse this too.  When he wakes every 2-3 hours now, I either feed him or just rock him back to sleep (I know...BAD habit...accidental parenting). 

I will say that I have not "started" any process from the book yet...this is where I need your help.  However, I have tried a few techniques here and there.  I have done the "wake to sleep" thing before I go to bed at night and WOW, it buys me another 1.5-2 hours (example: I do wake to sleep at 10pm and instead of hime waking at 11pm, he will go to 12-1am!!).  I know this not a "fix" but it really works with him, for naps too.  I also have beend TRYING to space his feedings to 4 hours latelyduring the day, it used to be every 3.  I have noticed a difference at night which totally blows me away (when I read in her book to do this I was like, yeah right).  These are all the reasons why I know we can change this, I just need some guidance. 

Also, I should mention, we are going out of town next week and I know I need to start this when I can have at least 2-3 weeks of being at home, right?  Ask away, if I have the answer I will tell you.  I appreciate you helping me. 

[HeatherC]

Ok, then, this is what I would do if I were in your shoes.
I would keep the dreamfeed (df) for now.  But, as for the middle of the night feed (motn), I would reduce his bottle by 1 ounce every 2 nights until there is nothing left to give.  Each night that you reduce the bottle, add that ounce back into a daytime bottle.  I would offer a bottle first thing in the morning.  Hopefully, if he hasn't had a big bottle at 5 am, then he will be hungry for it.  Whatever he takes from the first of the day bottle, decrease that amount from the bottle you would offer him at naptime.  Try to keep him awake, even if he's drowsy but awake, before you put him in his crib so that you can sleep train him if necessary. 
Does this make sense?  It will probably take 1-2 weeks to get this sorted b/c you want to do it slowly and give him time to adjust.

As you are doing this, you will want to incorporate pu/pd to get him to sleep without feeding to sleep, and/or to go back to sleep when he wakes in the night.  If wake to sleep (w2s) is working, continue with that a bit longer.  If it doesn't work, do pu/pd.  There is a huge section on pu/pd in The BW Solves All Your Problems as well as great tips on the Sleep Forums.

I personally think that if a 7 mo old has a 10-10:30 df, then they can go to 6/7 am before needing a feed again.  However, I appreciate that every baby is different and has different circumstances.  You are his mother, and if you think he needs a motn feed, then you should give it to him.  You just might consider, though, that if he's waking like clockwork, then it's probably out of habit.  If he were to wake at random times, then it could true hunger, especially at the time when growth spurts generally occur (6,9,12 mos).

However, I would also advise to consider dropping the df within this next month so that it, too, doesn't become a hard habit to break.  It will be helpful that he's beginning to have solids.  To cut out the df, you will also be adding those ounces back into his daytime bottles at first.  Then, you will see that as he begins to eat more solid food, his bottle amounts should decrease (9-12 mos).

I may have gone past the point of help you needed, but I had so many thoughts I wanted to get down.  Do you think this will help?

[mommatonate]

Are you kidding, this is SOOOO helpful.  It all makes perfect sense. It will be a rough road, no doubt about that, but I love how you suggest to EASE into it.  I plan on gradually reducing the motn starting tonight b/c this is something I can do even while being away from home.  i will try me best to not have him eat at 5am so he will take a feed in the am.  I will admit, I'm not looking forward to the independant sleep at nap and bedtime, but there is no quick fix.  I can't thank you enough.  If I have more questions, should I post them here?  I will say that I am quite surprised at the whole 4 hour plan.  It is helping at night time!!  It helps to know I'm not alone.  THANKS!!!

[HeatherC]

Good, I'm so glad you are comfortable with my suggestions.  I must say that everything I've learned is from the BW community, so I encourage you to continue to search all of the boards for further information.  Of course, please come back to this thread and keep us updated and let me know if you have more questions as you are working on this particular situation.

Remember, the more you can get him to eat before activity time and naps, then you will be working toward no bottle at sleep time (other than just before bedtime) at all, but, rather, a true EAS cycle.  Cut down the pre-nap bottle ounces the same way as the motn bottles and add them to the beginning of the EAS cycle.  The more you can get him to eat during the day increases the likelyhood of him not waking in the motn to eat.

The sleep training can take awhile and can be trying on you both.  Do you have someone to help you?  If you feel too overwhelmed, take a break and start over the next nap time.  Don't push either of you past 30-40 mins of pu/pd.  But, I will honestly say that it did work for my dd at 6 mos within a few days to be put down in her crib awake rather than having to be rocked for 30+ mins.

Good luck!