HELP! I think his mantra cry is making me crazy!

[jmhappy100]

HELP!!!  I can't tell a mantra cry from the real thing.  What he is doing when he wakes up is start "crying" "mememememe, dadadadada, mememememe, eeeeeeee"  this is very differnet than any cry he uses at any other time, so I think it is a mantra cry and I think I have been responding to it.  As soon as I go in to his room to do a PD he stops, then I see there aren't even any tears (most of the time), which is why I think it is a mantra cry??  It gets louder and then quieter, every once in a while he will throw in "mamamamamama".

I have been listening to this "cry" for about 3 hours a day for the last 5 days, between naps and night time and it is starting to make me crazy!  If I go in and lay him down and sit in his door way he will go back to sleep most of the time, but I think this is only solving the short term problem and not teaching him how to sleep.  I don't know what happened, he is almost 14mths old, we started PD with gradual withdrawl 15 days ago.  He seemed to catch on really quickly at first for night time sleep, we were seeing 6 and 8 hour blocks of sleep.  Then about day 8 he was sleeping through the night for 3 days in a row.  Then 4 nights ago he was back to being up 3 and 4 times a night.  His naps have been a wreck through all of this.  At first he just wanted to mess around in the crib as long as I was in the room with him.  So, I made a post and was advised to leave the room if he starts messing around, which makes sense, so I started doing that.  Now he flips out and starts his "memememe" cry.  Now he is content to lay in his crib just looking at me, he is not messing around nearly as much because he has figured out that if he starts that I leave the room (I'm only standing in the door way as it is!)

So, here are my thoughts...
1) I think I have been responding to a mantra cry...and I need to stop (but I want to be sure it is a mantra cry)
2) I think it is time to start WI/WO...I mean I'm already at the door way, I have no place else to go for gradual withdrawl, I mean you have to leave the room at some point right?


Please tell me this gets better...there seemed to be so much hope a week ago, and now it is worse then the first few nights!

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated!

[mum6791]

I know it is very common for babies to regress after a certain amount of sleep training.  Since you have had success I think you are doing the right thing and just need to keep doing to get through regression.

As far as the mantra cry, I can't be much help.  I have yet to figure my dd's 

For the longest time I stayed in dd's room and once I decided to leave the room it only took 3 nights before she was only requiring us to go back in once or twice.  After a week she was doing it all on her own.  She now asks us to put her in her crib part way through stories/singing!  I was reluctant to leave, but it worked so quickly I wish I had done it sooner!

Good luck - I think you are doing what needs to be done.  Just keep it up!

[Layla]

I agree that it could be regression

Can you tell me how many naps he is on & how long they are?

Yes, you do have to leave the room at some point. Is the door open at the moment & he needs to see you to fall asleep?

[jmhappy100]

I am hoping it is just a regression   things really were going so well.

He is on 1 nap a day, he gave up his morning nap in Aug, so we have been down to one nap for about 2 and a half months.  When he is in the napping grove he will sleep for about 2 and a half hours, which seems reasonable.  So, he goes in for his nap at noon, and is allowed out at 2:30 or later if he sleeps past 2:30, which almost never happens.  But the book said to keep doing PD for the whole nap, so today he only slept an hour and 10 mins. but he had to stay in there for another hour and 20 min.  Most of it was mantra crying (or what I think is his mantra cry) I found that if I didn't go in after about 3 min. he would just start babbling "mememememe", "dadadadada", but the crying tone was gone.  Then start up again a few mins. later.  So, I think it is his mantra cry, but I don't know.  At night he goes to bed at 7:45pm and is allowed out of his crib at 6:30am, about half the time he sleeps until 7am depends on how his night was.  He is back to being up 3 and 4 times a night, some sessions lasting up to an hour and a half.

His door is open.  Partly because I'm not totally comfortable with the idea of closing it and partly because his room seems to need the air flow from the rest of the house to keep the temperature reasonable.  We have a two story house, the bedrooms are on the top floor.

Does what I'm describing sound like a mantra cry to you guys???  I mean no tears, and stops the second I walk in the room.

Do you think it is time to try WI/WO? 

[Katet]

In my opinion if he has been asleep & wakes "early" then he is confused by the being kept in his room.
I think (don't have my BW books anymore) that the staying in bed part was for the first part of the sleep & normally related to about 40mins then take a break.
Given his age /time of transition to 1 nap, I'd be getting him up after 1.15 hours if that is it & having a quiet cuddle somewhere for as long as he will allow & a much earlier bedtime to compensate. I think he is building fear & confusion about being kept in his room after a nap.

[jmhappy100]

Samuel has never been a "good" sleeper.  We taught him to need us to fall asleep.  Up until we started doing PD he had NEVER fallen asleep unless he was in someones arms or in the car.  He has always woken up from his naps after about an hour to an hour and a half and 8 out of 10 times goes back to sleep for another 45 mins. at least (now that we do one nap).  I really believe he needs the longer nap, without it we are talking about a 14 mth old who would be getting maybe 11 and a half hours of sleep in a 24 hour period.  I don't want to be confussing him or causing fear.  I just know my child and 8 our of 10 times he needs to sleep longer than an hour at nap time.

On the days he slept all night, he also slept at least 2 hours at nap time.

So, if I'm not supposed to keep doing PD, then what am I supposed to do to extend his nap???

[Katet]

What I mean is don't keep extending it for a clock time, but look at his behaviour if he really looks like he could go back to sleep then try patting him a bit & soothing him (less stimulation & confusing than picking up but not getting out of bed), but if he seems upset - possibly confused by why he has woken up & you want him to sleep more, then follow his lead.
Sometimes you JUST CAN'T extend the nap.
I'm 100% certain he NEEDS to sleep longer than an hour BUT his body isn't telling him that & he isn't able to understand what you are trying to do either.

My ds#2 had A LOT of 1 hour naps when we moved to 1 nap (on off for 4 months) & he went to bed at 5pm at least 1/week. I just found if I tried to get him to sleep for more than a few minutes made him so worked up there was NO WAY sleep would happen, but if I got him up & sat with him for a few minutes in a quiet place or if I sat next to him & rubbed his head he would often drift back off  (still can at 2.5yo) if he needed the sleep... falling asleep at the start is the most important skill & it can take weeks before they naturally go to the next cycle.

The other thing to consider is he getting his Molars... cos with both my boys teething molars caused night waking & poor naps no matter how hard I tried... infact right now we have had some serious regression with sleep from my 2y because he is getting the last of his last 2yo Molar & has been crying out (in his sleep) almost hourly.

[jmhappy100]

I was just trying to use the books advice on "early wakings" in order to extend his nap, which according to the book says to keep him in there until "release" time.  I know after about 10 mins if he will actually go back to sleep or not, some days yes, other days it has been just an exercise in futility...

[Katet]

I was just trying to use the books advice on "early wakings" in order to extend his nap, which according to the book says to keep him in there until "release" time.  I know after about 10 mins if he will actually go back to sleep or not, some days yes, other days it has been just an exercise in futility...

Books are wonderful, but they aren't specifically about your child & so as you said you know after about 10mins... so why punish both of you with an exercise in futility. In my mind I'd much rather sit in a quiet room cuddling my child (who needs extra sleep) & is just relaxing in my arms, than have him crying while I try Pu/Pd to extend a nap to a "designated time". KWIM

[Dree]

I have to agree with Katet.

I tried pu/pd for 3 days recently. It did work...but I also sat in the rocking chair in my LO's room....cause there were a few nights where she was freaking out. (perhaps late separation anxiety..she never went through it before).

Everytime I left her bedroom she was hysterically crying. Something she rarely does unless she is teething or has gas. But this time I knew she needed me. So, I did pu/pd and would try to leave the room. Finally, I watched Sofia fall asleep then I left. I stayed because she needed me. (This also helps build trust).

Do what is right for you  and your LO !!!!!!!!!! no matter what the books say. It is a guide not written in stone. I am positive that Tracy would agree.

But whatever you do, do not I repeat do not let your LO CIO...I beg of you. I am a big believer of If he/she is crying then there is something bothering them.

Dree 

[jmhappy100]

thanks for the help...he is back to sleeping through the night...3 nights in a row!!!!  and his naps are a little better...last night at bedtime we didn't even have to do a PD at all he went to sleep from the first time we put him in his crib!!!  never done that before!

[Katet]

Sounds like it was a "normal" blib & he was crying out due to something (like teeth) bothering him.
My 2yo has just got the last 1/2 of his last molar & we had a week of bad nights that ended as suddenly as they started.

[Dree]

J - Glad to hear things are back on track. If you need to do PU/PD then do it. I tried it and it really does work. Remember that it only works if your LO is crying.

Sending you some sleep vibes

Dree