Need help for ds's naps

[elmarie]

Good sleeping vibes being sent to you-keep us posted 

[jmoran544]

No such luck for ds. He slept 45 min in the pm and cried- more a temper tantrum, I think. DD woke briefly 30 min into her pm nap, but fell asleep again quickly. She's still going after an hour.

So does this truly mean ds is trying to transition?

[elmarie]

Yes I do. When they start resisting the pm nap it is usually a sign. Just keep going-i know it's hard, but it will get better. 

[jmoran544]

Well, yesterday dd slept 30 min in am (I woke her) and 1:15 in the pm- 2.75 hrs after her am nap. Ds, however, slept only 45 min in the pm- 2.5 hrs after the am nap. Two days before he slept 30 min in the am and 1:10 in the pm. The day after he reversd the amounts- the longer nap in the am. Two nights ago he slept 11.5 hrs, last night 10.5. I really getting confused and very anxious- so much so that I am not falling asleep for over an hour at night, and if I wake up in the middle of the night I can't get back to sleep.

[jmoran544]

They kiddos were asleep by 8pm last night and slept until around 6am. The night before, they slept until 7:30am. AHHH!

Anyway, I tried to get them back to sleep but they weren't having it. So I got them up. I watched for tired cues this morning instead of following the routine. They both were yawning just before 9, so by 9:10 they were in bed. Both were quiet by 9:30.  I'm not sure how long they'll sleep. Before, I just put them down at their scheduled time, which is 10:30, and they're asleep by 10:45.

Yesterday their naps were as follows:

DS: 30 min am, 45 min pm (2.5hrs after am nap)
DD: 30 min am (woke her up because ds woke up), 1.25hr pm (2.45 hrs after am nap)


Two days ago their naps were as follows (later on they slept an 11.5 hr night):
DS: 1:10 hr am nap, 35 min pm nap (3.5hrs after am)
DD: 2hr am nap (woke her), 30 min pm nap (4hrs after am nap)*

*The night before DD only slept 10 hrs. DD would prefer to have a longer am nap, but ds wakes 30 min in.

I'm wondering how I should tweak the schedule so that either ds sleeps longer earlier in the day, or makes it through a pm nap. Over the last few weeks he sleeps 1:10 in the pm, or he wakes after thirty minutes. It doesn't seem to depend on when he goes down- 2.5hr or 3.5. Sometimes he makes it through, sometimes not. And because of the short am nap, I don't think dd is getting the day rest she nees. The day she woke at 6:15, slept a 2 hr nap in the am (she was asleep by 10:45) and a 30 min nap in the pm, she slept an 11.5 hr night.

So I guess if anyone knows how to get ds to sleep longer stretches during the day, and dd to sleep longer at night, I'll be forever grateful.

[jmoran544]

Guess what... ds slept for thirty min, going down fro his nap 3.25 after waking, a lot earlier than the 4hrs we were doing. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!

[elmarie]

i really believe he is starting the transition.  I will put him down 2.5h A after the am nap for the pm nap.  Remember that the 30min is not a proper nap so he will not be able to do his normal A time.  keep offering the 30min am nap for a few days and then try 1 nap at around 11ish and do a early bed until you can move the 11am later.  Remember to do it very slowly, in 15min increments until you have the nap around 12ish

Keep us posted 

[pbmom]

jmoran544 - just wanted to say that what elmarie suggested in pp is exactly what we did.  I think I said before that my DD1 could not handle the "recommended" A time, so we were always less there too.  Especially if one nap was crap, then she went down sooner for second nap and I would go purely on cues.  Hope you can find a balance soon...I know it's frustrating and bothersome as you know they are not getting what they need and are cranky b/se of it.  HUGS!

[jmoran544]

Thank you both for the help. I feel better just having something to try : )  If ds does sleep a good am nap (1.5+ hrs), then what time would you recommend putting him to bed? And, if he gets pooped out in the evening, would you recommend a catnap, car ride?

[pbmom]

I think the key is finding the "right" A time.  For naps, like I said before, mine was only 2-2.25 hrs for Paige.  She just couldn't handle more than that...but I know plently that could handle 2.5hrs.  For nighttime, A time shouldn't be too long or too stimulating.  We always kept things low key for the hour before bed.  I would try earlier for bed...earlier usually works.  Mine was always in bed by 7:30.  She now goes at 7:45 (she's 2).  I found if she was up later she woke at the same time as when she went down earlier.  Plus I had a friend who found that hers actually slept longer at night once she started putting him in at 7:30 instead of 9pm.  I would play with it some more...it really can't get worse, right? 

[elmarie]

jmoran544 -  If you prefer to give a longer am nap you can give a catnap of 30min or so just to get him through bath and bedtime routine.  If we have a EW and we have to do an early nap I still offer a cat nap about 2-3h before bed.  My lo often don't fall asleep but I leave her in the cot for the duration of the nap so she can have some quite time.

 

[jmoran544]

UPDATE: This morning ds woke at 5:50, coughing. He woke up dd, too. I tried to get them back to sleep. Ds came in my room but wouldn't go to sleep for more than a half hour, and on my chest. DD fell back to sleep quickly, but was up fussing soon after. So all in all they probably slept another 10 min. So we got out of bed around 6:45.

I put them down for a nap around 11:10. DD almost didn't make it. We went for a walk in the stroller at 10:45, and I had to pick her up once because she was drifting. No one threw a temper tantrum, though, which I had expected.

They both fell asleep within a few minutes, and ds passed the 30 min mark. YAY! But after about an hour, ds woke SCREAMING! I peeked in to see what he was doing. He was lying down and tossing a bit, and his crying subsided to more complaint-type crying. I went in and put my hand on his back to calm him, but he sat up and wanted to be picked up. So I brought him downstairs.

Dd is still sleeping- she's going on 2 hrs now. She would rather sleep longer in the am anyway. I am going to let her sleep as long as she wants, since I always have to wake her up, and I really think that's not fair : (

Anyway, any insights to the screaming? And I though ds would want to sleep longer than an hour. Or is this just a readjusting thing? If I put him down another 15 min later will he sleep longer than that? Or is he going to need a catnap for a while, until his nap gets longer?

If 1 hr or 1:10 is all he's going to sleep in the am, then that's fine. My only concern is bedtime for the twins, then, or the afternoon catnap. If I let dd sleep as long as she needs at this later am time, then the twins will be on off schedules for the afternoon. That means that dd will probably not want much of a catnap, and will need to go to bed earlier. That may be a problem, because the twins sleep in the same room at night. Unless, the catnap catches ds up to dd, and he won't need to go to bed later. 

Alright, now I'm rambling. It's just like me to fix one issue and start on the next...

Anyway, if anyone remotely understands what I just wrote, please feel free to respond, or if you have any more ideas or insights for me.

Ooops, dd just woke up. She slept 2 hrs.

[elmarie]

Glad to year that dd's naps are doing well   

I do think with ds you need to bring the am nap back slightly so he doesn't go over 5h A.  Maybe start at 10.30 am with winding down, if he woke up at 6 like this morning.  That way he will be asleep at 11am so at least he does not get too OT.  If you see he wakes after 1-1.5h I will offer the catnap so he can get through supper and bath time without being too tired.  I will also wake them at the 1 1/2h mark if they are having 2 naps.  If they have too long naps during the day it may affect their night time sleep.

Let us know what happens