20 week old multiple NW

[pbmom]

Hi, me again...Brooke is now 20 weeks (will be 21 weeks on Monday) and has been experiencing several NW.  She was going from 7pm feed, bed by 7:30 until 3/4am, then feed, then back down.  We have off and on experienced NW from 5:30 on...not sure what that's about.  It's usually every 20-30 minutes that she wakes in the early a.m.  I persist as we are not getting up at 5:30.  She wakes at 6:38 (almost on the dot) every day and I get her a few min before 7 for our start.  My current issue is that she has been waking FREQUENTLY from 8:15pm until midnight and I can't figure out why.  She screams with her eyes closed...like she's in pain.  Could it be the teeth moving around (I posted about this elsewhere and they said it was probably just a wonder week)?  Or could she be OT?  Not sure how that is possible as she is napping well and even taking the catnap.  We are on 4 hr easy with first feed at 7 and first nap at 8:30. 

Thanks,
Robyn 

[momofclaire]

Hi Robyn,
Can you post your EASY routine? 
Have you tried to give a dose of pain meds to see if the crying is pain related? 

Your avatar is adorable!
Myia

[pbmom]

Hi Myia - here's our routine:

B/w 6:30-7am (she wakes and plays in crib)
7am Eat
8:30 Nap #1 (1.5-2hrs)
11 Eat
12:30 Nap #2 (1.5-2hrs (if she slept less in am, she'll make up for it here)
3pm Eat
5pm Nap #3 (25-45min)
7:00 jammies, eat, bedtime ritual - always asleep by 7:30

*Naps are usually closer to 2hrs...she always wakes up happy so I don't sweat it if they are not. 

The first night she woke a lot I did give tylenol after the 5th waking.  She then slept a couple hour stretch, but woke to eat at normal time (3/4am).  The second night she only woke once before 4am and I had given her tylenol before bed.  But the third night I didn't give it at all and she slept from 7:30-3am straight with only one cry out at 8:15.  She has been fussing at her feeds and that's why I posted on the bottlefeeding board about possible teething.  No sign of teeth though and last night she only cried out once.  It's so weird as she's never done that before.  She has no symptoms so I don't think she's coming down with something.

She always wakes at 5:30am...and I think I have reinforced as I have always gone in her room and tightened her swaddle and turned her on her side to calm her and give her the paci.  She sleeps the entire night without the paci.  She falls asleep from completely awake on her own and doesn't even want the paci at all...so I don't think that's my issue.  Once she wakes at 5:30 she is up every 20-30 min. until 6:30 when I just give up and turn on her music as she is cooing and squealing.  I get ready and then get her out of her crib a few min before 7am.  I don't mind the 6:30 wakeup.  I just don't like being up at 5:30 every day!  Any suggestions there?  Thought about w2s, but an hour before would fall right after she's gone back in her crib from her night feed so didn't know how that would work.  Really didn't want to have to resort to pu/pd (she very spirited). 

ps - yesterday I did 3.5 hr feeds as her intake has been a lot lower due to this fussing about.  This way I get an extra bottle in and she then went from 7:30-4am straight.  Not sure if that's the right approach, but I feel like maybe she was waking out of hunger.  She's never been a big eater anyway, so when she drops off it really doesn't seem like she's getting enough.

Thanks for your help   ps - I love Paige (my 2 yr old) in that bee costume for halloween and Brooke in the bumbo is hilarious!

[momofclaire]

Robyn,
Do you think putting her to bed a littler earlier would  help. Generally early morning waking is due to overtiredness. Her naps look good but maybe if she was in bed about 15-20 minutes earlier her sleep would be less restless in the early hours.     Also, do you think she is ready for more A time?  She is almost 5 months right?  If she sleeps most the night without the paci then it probably isn't your problem.  I would however try to do less at the 5:30 wake. 

Thoughts?

[pbmom]

Hmmmm...ineresting.  I agree about the bit of OT.  Not to bore you with details, it's just I have a hard time getting her to bed any earlier as DH doesn't get home from work until 7.  He gets home and I head upstairs with Brooke while he's with Paige.  Maybe we can figure something out for a couple days to give it a try.  She does get pretty cranky most nights by 6:30.  So maybe if she was asleep by 7 instead as I really can't get her to sleep past 6:30am.

I wonder about A time too?  She seems to get really grizzly at 1hr45min...so we begin WD then and she's out within 10 min.  The few times she has been up more b/se we were out or something she has taken a great nap with no intervention from me.  Wonder if sometimes she's tired but not tired enough - iykwim?  What's typical this age - 2hr or 2hr15min? 

[momofclaire]

At 6 months Claire was doing 2 hours in the morning and a little longer as the day went on.  Some babies can do two hours at 5 months it just depends on the baby. 

You aren't boring me with details. I understand how juggling the two children might get tricky.  I only have one and sometimes can't keep up.  Do you think Paige could do a special quiet activity every night while waiting for daddy to get home so you can put the little one to bed.  I know leaving a two year old anywhere for any amount of time can be interesting but maybe she would watch a tv program or look at her books or maybe even rock and feed one of her babies to sleep.

[pbmom]

Hi - thanks for the note. 

Well, I tried a little longer A time this morning...and oops 35 min napper!  Way OT and couldn't get her back down despite my best extending efforts.  So we were off to shop for X-mas since lord knows it will come whether I get ready or not!  So she ended up being awake for 3 hrs (bad mommy) and is now sleeping - phew!  I guess that 2 hr A IS our magic number lately...that includes winddown and eating.

Tried to look back on my logs to see if there was something that I was missing with Brooke re: the NW.  Literally nothing was different from one day with 10 NW and the next where she slept from 7:30-5:30 straight.  I did notice though that she seemed to do a long stretch when she had the DF at 10 as opposed to 11pm...and then ate at 4am and went back to sleep.  So maybe those 2 little oz were helping her.  Or maybe I'm just going to drive myself to the insane asylum.

I think you are right about Paige...maybe I'll try to give her a little Dora as I get Brooke down.  I am usually only gone for 20 minutes, but it's a little tricky as Paige gets tired at night too and seems to want to be near me (hence major whining!).  If she were capable of being quiet (ever!) then I would take her upstairs with us, but I tried that in the beginning and what a disaster.  Plus Brooke is too nosy...if she hears "sissy" around then she pops her head all around like it's on a swivel to see where Paige is(LOL). 

DH is home today, so I can do it and see how it goes.  If it works, then I will figure out something.  Even if it's having the neighbors daughter come over for an hour to play with Paige from 6-7pm.  hmmm...that's a thought. 

Thanks again - will let you know.

[ElsMom]

Hey Robyn - you mentioned this on the birth clubs and I thought I'd take a look since it sounds like Elsie's doing something similar.  And before I gave in to the early AM feed this is EXACTLY what Elsie was doing.  I don't think the "correct" answer was necessarily to do the early feed, but I was so tired of being up by 4 am or 5 at the latest every day.  Since I've been doing the early feed, I at least usually get to go back to bed until 6:45.  I don't have any advice for Brooke, obviously, as we're doing the same thing, but I thought I'd share what my SIL does for her other kids when she's putting the baby down.  They have 4 under 6 years old (WOW) and the older three get to do something special when she's putting the baby down for naps or bed.  In their case, it's usually watching their favorite show, recorded earlier in the day.  So they don't get to watch it when it's actually on, (I doubt they know when it's actually on), but they get to watch it during the baby's wind down.  So everyone is happy.  I don't know if that would work on a 2 year old alone, but it seems to work on the group of them.  The neighbor's daughter sounds like a good idea, too - probably better if you need an hour.  Can't imagine a 2 year old amusing herself with anything you'd approve for a whole hour!

[pbmom]

Just wanted to say thanks...DH came home early tonight to help as Brooke has a fever and there is obviously something else going on too.  UGH...she's been up 5x since going down at 7 and it's only 9pm.  Poor lo...she was so fussy.  Although she slept so well for naps today as she's not feeling well.  I knew something was up - LOL! 

ps - I too did the early feed at 5:00 one day and she slept until 7:30 (and I let her).  But most days she wakes to eat at 4am so 5:30 seems ridiculous.  Plus the day she ate at 5 she didn't eat well at 8 when I tried to feed her to start the day.  I'm going to DF her tonight as she needs tylenol at 10:30 and she's seemed dehydrated today. 

Good Luck Lisa - maybe we'll figure it out...probably by the time the phase passes