Need help tweaking routine pls!

[Aly Mac]

Nike, big hugs love.

I'm sorry I have no answers about why he will be OT from one nap and not from one that finishes early.. YOu know, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to these things.  I just wish they could talk already and tell me what was wrong.

I'm with PP though, you need to let him recover from his ear infection fully before you try to sleep train again.  It's not going to be easy, but trying to work out why the nw etc occur, is clouded by the ear infection.

When should I start stretching him out in the morning? Do I wait for him to start faffing around til I know he's not ready for sleep so soon?

as above, I would wait until he is well and truly over his ear infection, before training for one nap again.

When you say to get him up after 1/2 hour trying if he is faffing around, shouldn't I try putting him back down in another, say, 1/2 hour or do I go straight to one nap in the early afternoon???

I just found that if she wasn't asleep in half an hour, for the am nap, then it wasn't going to happen.  YOu can try again later, but then you would do the pm nap later - which is fine, but I found I needed to keep the sleep time consistent each day to make it work for her. So I would put her down for her first nap around 11/11.30 depending on tired signs, and then an early to bed night.  The reason I was doing a 2nap day was because she was tired, hence the earlier one nap time.

How long do I let him sleep for?  (Obviously if only one nap, til he wakes, but if it's 2?)

when you start with it again (ie; when he's better), you may need to play with it abit to see what works, but 45mins, with the 2nd nap 3hrs later, or 30mins nap with the 2nd nap 2.5hrs later.  All i'm saying is this is what worked for us, but not everyone subscribes to this.  it seems odd that the A time would be so low, but with your boy, as with  my girl, it seems like the low A time would work as they were not on a high A time previous. The 2nd nap may take a little to settle so have lots of winddown time. 

What do I do at the other end of the day?

as above 

If I keep waking him, how do I know what his "true" awake time is?

not sure what you mean?  do you mean his natural wake time? I found now that L is on a solid one nap a day, that her cues have come back and I can read when she needs to go to bed to avoid OT.  This is an up and down process. 

What time do I make bedtime?[/b]

in relation to a two nap day? or one nap day

[nike]

Hi Aleesa.  Many thanks again for taking the time to reply to my ramblings

Just to let you know what we did today -  he slept through again ( ) till 6.30 this morning, from 5.45 p.m. yesterday.  He woke happy and chatty.  I was actually expecting him to wake crying, so that was a nice surprise.  Since yesterday was such a disaster and he fought us on that 2nd nap, I thought I'd go for broke and put him down for the one nap but this time make it earlier.  He did really well till 1/2 way through lunch at 11 when he started to get upset.  We finished lunch quickly, had some wind-down and then I gave him a bottle and put him to bed.  He whinged for a couple of minutes and then I didn't hear from him till 1.30.  So that was great, a 2 hr sleep.  Well, it all went haywire after that!  Again he was really happy till we hit 4 p.m. and he just had a complete meltdown.  I hurried him through dinner (I was going to give him a 4.30 dinner and put to bed at about 6) and did bath, bottle and bed by 5.15.  It did seem way too early for me but he was really upset, very unlike him.  He did perk up a bit in the bath, though.  There was lots of eye rubbing and yawns in there.  He didn't settle immediately, so I went back in and gave the rest of the bottle he didn't finish and some extra cuddles.  He then was happy to go to bed.  So that was about 5.45 as it turned out anyway.  It's been two hours now and he hasn't stirred, which is a good sign. 

I'm really having a hard time reading this kid!!  It looks like he's definitely on one nap a day now but I just can't get the timing right.  If I put him down too early in the day he will still give a good nap but refuses the 2nd, then it's such a huge stretch till bed - like yesterday it was 8 hours   He was happy, though   Whereas today when I stretch him out in the a.m. and it was a shorter A period till bed, he had a meltdown   I didn't mention that I did try for a nap later in the afternoon, at about 4.15 but he wasn't having a bar of it

So...what to do???  Should I put him down at 10 tomorrow and hope he'll do at least 2 hours, then make bed at 5.30 - which is still 5.5 hours!!  Eeek!!

I totally agree with the sleep training being put on hold while he's ill.  I don't mean to be facetious (sp) but I really feel if I can get the nap timing right that I wouldn't have to do any wi/wo, etc.  He really is a great sleeper normally and once we hit on a good routine and the timing is right then I don't even need cues from him, I just put him down and off he goes.

I would wait until he is well and truly over his ear infection, before training for one nap again.

This is what I did yesterday, normal nap time a little after 9 a.m. (he went down very easily) but then the little monkey refused the 2nd nap completely!  TBH, I don't know that he'll go back to 2 naps now, and I'm scared to try in case he does a repeat performance of yesterday!

If I keep waking him, how do I know what his "true" awake time is?

Obviously it's not an issue any more if I'm not having to wake him to start the day or after a period of time into his morning nap. 

Hope to get this mess all sorted soon.  It's school hols here now and I don't know WTH to do in regards to going out and about in the morning.  I don't want poor DS1 to miss out

xo

[Aly Mac]

Nike, I just noticed you are in Aus - me too!!!!!  Where are you? I'm in Brisbane.

Until he can stay awake a little longer, then an earlier bedtime maybe what you need to do.  You may get an earlier wake up, but we had to do this when L went from 3-2 naps, as she didn't want the catnap, but couldn't have a long last A time.  Each day, try and push the nap time by 10mins.  So tomorrow do 10mins later, and do that time until you get a long nap.  Then after 3 solid days of longer nap, increase the nap time later by another 10 and so on.  This is where if you do get too an early waking, you can throw in a 2nap day.  I hated them as the 2nd nap was not fun, but I tried ot get her to sleep any which way I could.  this way she could go to bed a litte later and hopefully wake up a little later.  Really, getting the 2nap to be taken easier, is really just trial and error with the amount of time the first nap is, and how long A time inbetween.  the times I mentioned bfore worked for us.

hth!

[nike]

Hey Aleesa.  An ex Brisvegas girl here!  We're now in sunny Hervey Bay, right near the beach   It is getting rather cool here now, though!

He slept through again last night, waking at 6.30.  I don't mind that time, actually, as his big brother wakes at 6 so we're up anyway.  An earlier start always makes for an earlier finish, I say

I had planned to try for a 10 a.m. nap today but he's happily playing with Grandma, after just finishing morning tea, so I think I will aim for 10.30, which is 4 hours A time.  I will just have to live with the hairy afternoons, I think, until he settles into the 1 nap.  I realise I've been jumping all over the place with nap times, so even if things fall apart this afternoon I will try and be consistent for a couple of days with that time and, as you say, gradually push it forward.

What is weird is that right at the  beginning when I went cold turkey and did a 12.30 nap time, he was handling the A time at both ends really well.  Like you say, if only they could talk and tell us WTH they want/need

I'll let you know how I get on today!  How's things going with L, btw??

[Aly Mac]

Nike, I think the reason they seem ok only for a while, is that it kind of catches up with them.  I have heard others talk of a regression, which I htink may be what is happening. Also the illness of course.

Hervey bay - love the place.  we went camping last september at scarness and loved it though we had to come home after 4days as L and I got sick - blah.... always the way.  will def be going back.

[nike]

Hi Aleesa.  It's funny you know, the temp has dropped to about 25 during the day here and we're all wearing jumpers now

While I'm not saying we've cracked it yet, the last two days have been great.  Yesterday went:

Wake 6.30
Nap 11.30 to 2 (he woke 2x with a little cry/whinge after 45 mins and then 20 mins later, then back to sleep!)
Bed 6.30 (no dramas and slept through)

Today:

Wake 6.45
Nap 11.45 (he was really happy all morning)

It's now 2.45 and he's still sleeping   Of course it goes from one extreme to the other bc now I'm wondering if he's sleeping too long and what time I should put him to bed   Any thoughts?  Should I just go with the 5 hours A time or make a consistent bedtime of say 7 p.m.??

He just seemed so much happier today in general.  Maybe it was just the ear infection and cold mucking him up.  (Remember I said three weeks ago when I dropped him to one nap we seemed to be cruising along really well and then it just all went to pot?)

Thanks again for all your invaluable advice.  If you're ever up this way, pm me and we can chat in person over coffee  

[Lissybits]

Hi Nike,
Glad to hear things are going better for you and DS!! Well done!!
Hugs and Kisses,
Lis
xx

[Aly Mac]

Sounds like a great day NIke. what time did he wake.  I'ts 7pm here now, so I will be thinking of you. I would keep consistency and go for 7pm and see how you go.


xxx

[nike]

Thanks for dropping by to add your support Lis

I actually woke him ( ) after I hopped off the PC, so at 3 hours (2.45 p.m.)  I had intended 7 p.m. for bed but he was showing very clear tired signs earlier, including major grizzles in the bath.  So he went off without any probs at 6.45.  I heard him stirring at 6.30 this morning but he went quiet for another 15 minutes, so not actually sure of his wake-up time.

Today I put him down for his nap at 11.30.  We had a dr's appointment (he still has infection present in one of his ears, so it's another dose of antibiotics, and a suspected UTI) and some running around this morning, so that helped distract him.  He nearly fell asleep in the car on the way home (10.30 a.m.) so I used every trick in the book to keep him awake   He was clearly cactus by the time I put him into bed, though, the poor little guy.  It's been 1.5 hrs now, so that's great - also with no wakings after the first sleep cycle....yahoo!

It seems like this little guy can handle (barely) a longer A time in the morning but less in the afternoon.  Is this normal???

[Aly Mac]

Nike, I think the odd A times is because he is still sick......gotta run sorry