EASY questions for 5.5mth old new to the routine

[mje]

We are new to EASY and have been trying to muddle our way through, but I'm finding it hard to stick to my guns not knowing if I'm doing the right thing, so i'm here looking for some advice!  Our LO is 5.5months old and we have been really struggling with sleep for 2 months now.  She is a short napper (30-45mins) and a regular night waker and so struggles to get enough sleep.  She's never really had a proper routine before.  In her first 3 months she was a great sleeper, long naps and long stretches at night, but now we are here...

Rather than try to introduce an EASY routine in one go, I started by stretching out her feeds to 4 hours during the day and that has been fine.  Sleep is another issue!  I've been focussing on keeping her to a rough routine and trying to extend her naps, with some limited success.  Almost without fail she wakes up at either the 30 or 45 minute mark.  Mostly I can resettle her with some ssh/pat and she then stays in very light sleep (with arms flailing) for maybe 40mins (if i can keep her there).  Very occasionally she has another short burst of deep sleep.  I've tried staying in there with her and putting pressure on her arms to prevent the wakeups but no luck. 

At night she usually wakes around an hour after she goes down, and then sometimes every hour or so all night, sometimes she has stretches of four hours. Generally we settle with shh/pat for all wake ups, except if its 4hrs since she fed or she gets really upset in which case I feed her (we havent really got into PU/PD yet - I've used it a bit for naps and she does eventually settle).  She has a dummy and hangs onto it in her mouth for much of the night but i'm not sure whether its the problem - she spits it out before going to sleep sometimes, and often when we go in to her crying she still has it in her mouth!

The result of all this is that she seems too tired to get on the routine properly and I dont know whether to focus on putting her down as per the routine, or when she is showing tired signs.  For example, she always shows tired signs about an hour after waking, and is generally pretty tired by 1.5 after waking but from reading the other posts she should be able to handle at least 2 hours of A time.  I've been holding her out for 2 hours but not sure if I'm doing the right thing?  And then if she has a really short afternoon nap (and a bit long cry while i try to resettle her), do I hold out until her catnap at 5pm or try to put her down on tired signs?

Also, for all sleeps, we have been staying with her until she is in a deep sleep.  This has really calmed her down, but now I feel like our presence has become a prop!

I guess my question really is whether it is worthwhile persisting in the way we have (ie 'loosely' implementing the EASY principles) or do we have to bite the bullet and do a strict time based routine for a few weeks?

[Grace's Mom]

hello 

30 minute naps usually = OT
45 minute naps usually = in need of more A time

Due to all the short naps she's most likely OT by the end of the day which is why she is having a hard time sleeping at night.
When a lo is OT they have a hard time falling asleep and staying asleep.
You want to really extend those naps so that she is getting the quality of sleep needed.

When you say you hold her out until the 2 hour mark, do you mean you keep her up for 2 hours and then try to put her down, or are you having her asleep by the 2 hour mark?
I would make sure to have a good wind down time (nothing overstimulating) and then a solid nap routine and have her asleep by 2 hour mark. 

How long is her first A time of the day normally?

Also, routine is all about following your lo's cues and knowing what your baby needs. 
For example....if your lo ate at 7am and is crying at 8:45, you know that she's not hungry because she just ate under 2 hours ago so you of course aren't going to feed her but it's creeping up on that 2 hour mark so you know it's time to get her down for her nap.
It's all about knowing you baby and following what your lo needs.
No one day will be the exact same or will be perfect.
Just like us, depending on how we slept or napped our day will be effected.
Some days we need more awake time and others we need less. 
It's all fine tuning.

Melissa

[mje]

Hi - thanks for the reply.  A 'normal' morning is that she wakes between 6 and 7am.  If she wakes at say 6.30 then I feed her at 6.30 and by 7.30 she is showing tired signs (yawning, staring out, pulling at ears) and by 8ish she is getting grizzly.  I aim to be winding her down for her nap in her room after 1 hr 45 (in this case would be 8.15), to be asleep by 2hrs (8.30).  Morning A is a feed on waking (around 15mins), then normally some quietish play on our bed with us - soft toys or rattles, singing, talking - and then a cuddle in the kitchen while cook toast.  Winddown in room is nappy, sleepy music on, story, grobag, quick cuddle in chair, dummy in, bed.  She is normally in light sleep within 5mins.  Deep sleep takes 15 or so when she first goes down, but for resettling deepsleep can elude her for 40mins.

[mje]

Hi again.  Maybe i should also add that reading other posts i saw the advice re 30 nap = OT and so thought perhaps i should put her down for her first nap earlier to help her 'catch up', especially as she is so restless at night.  So for a couple of days I put her down at the first tired signs and she went down fine but was still awake at 30mins.  Then it threw out her routine for the rest of the day and i didnt know what i should do re subsequent naps.  Melinda

[Grace's Mom]

could she be waking up due to not being able to put herself back to sleep on her own?
My lo, at age 6 months, went through this weird phase where she just kept waking up every 30 minutes(ish)...it was right after we weaned the swaddle and she was learning to transition.

If you lo is waking at the exact same time every single nap you can try W2S.
But, if she's not it won't work.

For the 1st A time, I'd aim to have her asleep at the 1 hr. 45 minute mark....some lo's need a tad less A time first thing in the morning.
Try that for a few days and see if it helps.
It's best to start at the beginning of the day and work your way back.
If you have a good first nap, you're more likely to have a better rest of your day.

With any routine change it does take some time for their bodies to adjust to the change; sometimes causing some craziness.

If a lo has a short nap, it's best to shorten the next A time just a hair to help compensate are ward off the OT monster.

[mje]

She loved her swaddle and her sleep troubles really began when weaning her off her swaddle coincided with a holiday interstate to visit family.  In hindsight (gotta love hindsight!) it was too much for her and I would have kept swaddling her alot longer.  She is a touchy baby, and while she is trying to get to sleep her arms go crazy flapping and pulling at her dummy/clothes and keep waking her up.

Thanks for the advice.  I will try the ealier nap for a few days and see how we go.

[Grace's Mom]

does she use a blanket/sheet?
Can you tuck her in a bit...kind of like a swaddle but not...just to help make her feel more secure?

You can also go in and hold her arms during the jolts, to help her get through the transition.

Hope all goes well.
Melissa

[mje]

Just wanted to say thanks for the help Melissa and give some feedback...

Your advice re putting her down a bit earlier for her first nap has worked a treat.  I also tried the sheet but couldnt get it tight enough in the cot, so decided to just swaddle her and see what happens.  Its been great!

We are now mostly getting two 1.5 - 2 hour naps (with often, but not always a wake up at 45 mins) and she is so much easier to resettle (5mins instead of up to 40mins).  She is also so much calmer in bed.  It almost seems too good to be true. I think maybe the routine has finally started to pay off, and then the swaddling was the icing on the cake. I know she is probably a bit old to restart it, but after 2 months of very little sleep we were pretty desperate and maybe in a month or two she will be a bit more settled and i can start weaning her off it.

Nights are still up and down, but i think on the whole they are improving (more 3 - 4 hour stretches) and hopefully with her day sleeps sorted they will keep improving.

[Grace's Mom]

Great news!
Glad the naps are looking up.
Way to go Mje!!!!

Don't worry about starting up the swaddle again.
You do what you have to do.
Once her routine is back on track and you feel comfortable then you can worry about weaning it.

Can't wait to hear how things continue one.

Melissa

[mje]

Well, one week on we are having consistently good naps and I very rarely have to resettle during the nap, but NW are still a problem (every hour or so through the night).  I think we've got a few issues that could be contributing (dummy, hungry, responding too quickly to her cries) so I've posted to the NW forum to see if there are any suggestions.  The maternal and child health nurses have referred me to our 'sleep school' but I am nervous about going and undoing all the hard work we've put in if they put too much pressure on to go cold turkey on the dummy and/or leave her too long before intervening so i'm hoping to get some improvement in the next week or so so that I feel confident enough that i can do it on my own.

Melinda

[Grace's Mom]

Glad naps are going well.

Let me know what the night waking boards say!

***How long do you wait before going in to her?
Do you wait until it's a true I NEED YOU MOMMY cry?

Do you feed every time she wakes?

is she going to bed OT?

Do give it another week! 
She might surprise you.

[mje]

I dont think she is going to bed OT anymore.  She has 2 good sleeps (1.5 to 2 hours) and usually a catnap of 30mins to 1hr and is a changed baby from two weeks ago.  Maybe she is OT but she is so much improved that i havent noticed!!!

We go in almost immediately when she cries out.  I try to convince my DH to wait, but he thinks the longer we leave it the harder she is to settle and so likes to go in early.  When i do convince him to wait she usually proves him right and gets all worked up pretty quickly.  Plus with the dummy there is the chance its fallen out and then she probably wont settle without it (oops - we have a prop!).  I think over the next couple of nights I will make a concerted effort to wait it out a bit - watch out for the 'i need mum' cry instead of the whinge which it always starts out as.

I dont feed every time she wakes, probably works out to be every second or third.  I usually feed her on her first wake, as that is generally around 9.30 - 10.30.  Then I try to hold out 4 hours between feeds so at least i'm not feeding more than during the day, although often i feed if its been 3 hours and i go in and she is wide awake or DH tries cant easily settle her.

I feel like we are being a bit lazy by looking for easy fixes rather than doing the hard yards, but after a two months of this we are both so exhausted and i'm nervous to try anything that might undo our good work on the naps.

[Grace's Mom]

The paci could actually be causing most of your night problems.
We still used a paci then but we taught dd how to get it on her own (during the day time).
We threw about 6 in her crib at once and let her get them all by herself as we were not ok with going in to replug all night long....mommy and daddy need their rest too 
This worked well for us.

However the harder...yet, in the long run easier thing to do would be to just wean it.
I know it's scary but the earlier you do the easier it is to get rid of.
We now have a 2 year old who still uses a paci and I am terrified to get rid of it. 

If you want to get rid of it be sure to visit the props boards.
They'll have some great advice.
I believe they even have a support thread for paci weaning.

I know how you feel about wanting an easy fix.
I think we all do.
These things do take time and can be hard work, but in the end it's all worth it.
both parents just have to be on the same page with the plan of action and then what ever you decided to do you'll both need to be 100% consistant or your precious dd will be confused and not know what's expected of her.

I'd focus on the paci first! 

Melissa