advice on dropping dreamfeed please - long and complicated sorry!

[hattie]

hello everyone,
I am in the process of trying to cut out the DF as I really think it is making DSs sleep strange (we have had more NWs than ever before plus consistent EW at between 5 and 5.30am where I normally give him his first bottle of the day for the last 2 months) and he is happily eating 3 meals a day so I figure it is time to drop it.
So first of all I tried cutting down the ozs on the DF slowly as per the advice I read here on the boards but that didn't seem to work (he usually wakes up for the DF around 11 if I haven't already gone to give it to him) and with feeding less he just got angry plus I got kept adding back milk as he went through a period of illness and teething and so I was using the DF to up his food and liquid intake....

Then last night I just didn't give him the DF (he had eaten well all day 3 meals plus 3 bottles, 2 of 8oz, one of 5) and I thought I would try cold turkey but he didn't sleep through, he woke hungry at 3am which felt like a return to the newborn days!!! And then he woke up at 630....so in a way it was good because I didn't have to deal with an EW at 5 but then the fact that he woke hungry at 3am suggests he still needs the DF right?  What should I do?  I am so confused?  He is a big boy, well over 10kilos....maybe he just needs that extra bottle?  All advice is so very very welcome!!!! Thanks

[*Nicola*]

Hattie,

Not sure how helpful this will be but I'll throw it out there anyway!

We DF on and off from about 3-6 months.  Without it Callie would wake anywhere between 1130 and 4am but with it she would wake at 230am.  No win situation!  I couldn't face the 1130/midnight wake up as soon as I went to bed so we DF to avoid that.  Anyway ... we eventually gave it up cold turkey and started to offer a full 7oz bottle at her first waking and didn't feed again after that.  This would see her right through until morning.  After a couple of weeks of that we started to dilute the bottles, dropping an oz of formula every 3 days.  Like Dante, Callie had learned to be hungry overnight and diluting the bottles meant she took more during the day and needed less at night. 

We have now not had a night feed for a week although she is sometimes still waking.  Day feeds are going great and I can see where she has upped her milk intake to compensate for no night feeds. 

Not sure if that is at all helpful!! xx

[Lindsay07]

How old is your lo?
I'm thinking that maybe 3 bottles isn't enough during the day?  Is there a reason you're down to three instead of four?  BW says four bottles + DF until 7-8 months, then 4 bottles + solids.
Just a thought!

[hattie]

thanks for your replies I feel like I am just missing something in his routine and so I have upped the milk again during the day as you suggest (I don't really know why I dropped that 4th bottle, I guess I thought it was time as my ped here advises just 2 bottles a day for LO at this age and I am always torn between following advice here in Italy and following the UK US advice) since these recent nw, and I think in fact they might has been the start of a growth spurt because today he woke at 5 (he had had full DF at 11pm as I was too tired to contemplate NWs) and I calmed him til 6 but at 6 he was still wide awake and restless though not crying and so I gave him a bottle and was expecting to get up but then he fell back to sleep until 9am!!! he is normally wide awake at 6.20!!
then he ate a full bowl of cereal and fruit and was crying for a bottle an hour and a half later, then lunch then he had another 5 ozs at 3pm then a HUGE supper of chicken pumpkin and cheesy mash and yoghurt with more fruit and two fishfingers....then 5 ozs of milk before bed.  It has to be a growth spurt right?
Is there one at 8.5 mths usually?
Anyway despite the fact that he is a big baby (11kilos) and I do worry that I am overfeeding him sometimes I will just go with it and give him all the food and milk he wants (including DF which he always finishes) and see if that helps NWs...

[Lindsay07]

As I've read on here over and over, and as my ped keeps telling me too - milk is lo's main source of nutrition until 12 months old...  solids for us are for practice, table manners, and tasting new foods and consistencies, not nutrition at all.
My 7.5 month old drinks 4 10oz bottles a day, and has 2-3 meals per day, and we're still on purees!
I'd feed your lo as much as he'll eat... I think if I gave my ds more milk he'd drink it!  (Our bottles only go to 10 oz!)  I tried him on 10oz when we dropped the df, and he's been finishing that much ever since!  I'm expecting him to want less since he's been on solids, but no such response yet!
Also, we feed ds his bottles on a 4 hour timespan, and feed solids in between there sometime, usually around 1.5-2 hours after his last bottle so as not to interfere with his milk intake.
He usually wakes around 4-5am where I give him a diluted bottle (3oz formula, 3 oz water) but last night he went right thru till 6:45am without waking!
My ds is also a big baby...not sure of his weight right now. 
I don't know about the growth spurt at 8.5 months...  hopefully someone else can weigh in on that...

[hattie]

thanks for your feedback.  It all got a little confusing a couple of weeks ago because he had been sick with ear and throat infection and he has just got top two teeth through and these things combined meant that solids were pretty much point blank refused and he was back to 5 bottles of 9 oz milk per day, then he started to eat again and this was when ped who was checking up on him post illness said that if he was better I could try to cut the milk and up the solids and milk intake via solids....I am very aware of the guidelines as laid out on BW but it is hard when the guidelines here are very different and because he had been refusing morning bottle (pre illness) that was the one I dropped.  I suppose if I am honest I have probably been more affected than I want to admit by the comments of everyone about how he is "such a big boy" and looks like a one and half year old etc etc and was starting to feel like I was at fault somewhere and felt pressure to cut milk (even the guidelines on the back of my formula box says he should only have 2 bottles a day...it's a conspiracy!!)

[Lindsay07]

lol re: big boys!  i get that a lot too!  and i totally don't care!  my family and ds's family are all "big" people, so no surprise that ds is big too!
i think too that the bigger they are, the more they eat, and that's that!
it's crazy how so many places/countries/cultures have such different views on milk intake!  i never really knew, but i think you just have to go with your lo of course...
whatever he'll eat, you feed him!  or so i say anyway...
definately don't worry about what other people say about your lo's size.  we have a play date with two friends of ours, both boys...one is 14 months, and the other is 11 months, ds is 7.5 months and he's bigger than both of them!!!  he's in bigger diaper's and wearing larger/older clothes!  i think it's funny and cute!
good luck... im sorry if you feel i offended your culture as well - it certainly wasn't intentional. 

[hattie]

absolutely not offended!!  I am Italian by adoption in that I am actually totally british, scottish born and raised but now out here for work and then fell in love with my husband and the rest is history! glad to hear I am not the only one with a BIG boy.  thanks for all your advice