*quick help and long term help please*BBB question...what would you do?

[meltown]

ok, so it has been almost a week and it seems to be getting to be more and more of a game.  the past 2 nights he has been sleeping in his BBB for nights as well, but we started with naps.  he seemed to give us a few days of trouble then things started looking up as he got p less and began falling asleep on the floor instead of coming out.  now it is getting worse and worse and taking him longer and longer to lay in his bed and go to sleep.  It has been an hour so far today and he is coming out and laughing as we walk him back to bed.  we started with responding to the door opening as he came out and then that became a game so we started to wait for him to come out.  then that became  game so we waited for him to come into the front room and now that is a game.  what would be the best thing at this point to do?  We were looking at gates to keep him in his room or a thing for the door knob because we have lever door handles he knows how to work them.  would that be the best way to approach this?  how long does this go on???  should be just keep at it for the next week after week after week??  it just seems to be getting worse and nothing we are trying is making this smoother.  If I ned to just keep going I can, but DH is going back to school and wont always be here so I'm on my own with my 45 min napper baby and a boy that doesn't want to stay in his bed.  If I can know what to expect or a better way to go at this then that would be helpful.  TIA!

[meltown]

ok, it's been going for 1 hour 30 min now.  we are abut to skip his nap time, any help???

[lilysmommie]

HI Meltown,

I remember going through this with my DD1 who is now almost 3. I tried a gate on her door. It does keep them in their room but......you will have to listen to crying/yelling/laughing/talking when they stand at the gate trying to get your attention (or the really agile ones just climb over it!). So, you'll have to decide what you want to do with him i.e. let him cry, talk to him etc.  I know some people who put those handle locks on their doors with success, but I've never personally tried it. You could also try putting a bed rail on his bed, it might just be enough of deterrent to keep him in his bed.

I think the trick is to stay consistent in whatever method you decide to use for a while. They see all the chinks in your armour.....Also, if you change it up all the time, they don't know what the consequence is and will continuously try and get out of their rooms. (I'm very guilty of this myself!)

Recently, my DD1 has started this again and this time I decided to go in quietly, take her by the hand, tuck her in and say "night, night". That is the only thing I say, no matter what she asks me.  I used to get mad, be stern or try to talk to her about it but I think that is exactly what they want...your attention, good or bad. When you're really boring, they may lose interest. It seems to be working on my DD,  I only went in 3 times within a 5 minute period last night and then she was out.

Good luck....I have found the transition to a big girl bed to be good in some respects but in others quite a battle. Just hang in there! Just when you think they are sleeping so well in their beds, they change it up on you.

lilysmommie

[Layla]

Big {{{HUGS}}} Mel. I've blocked out the big bed transition.. it totally blew my perfect sleeper away .....for a little while . But I've gone throught my old posts and will tell you what worked for us.

From the start we got a gate. It was actually for her sister because Isabella's favourite thing to do is to wake Jasmine up in the morning as soon as she's awake... so the gate was suppose to block her from going into her sister's room. But my dear Isabella insisted that I put the gate on her door instead.. so it worked out really well in that sence. So if a gate is something you are comfortabel with, I don't see any harm in it. Personally I wouldn't go any more than that (locking doors for example), because I don't want my dd locked in her room. Locking doors works for some,... but it was a personal choice because I know as a baby/child, I hated nothing more than having my door closed and I always needed to have it adjar so that I could see/hear my parents and not be scared, lol.

The gate was enough to stop her from coming out of her room.. but it still didn't solve the bedtime battles. So we would do our bedtime routine, tuck her in and leave (door open and gate closed). She would jump up as soon as we'd leave and come to the gate. Then she would either stand there and call out for me (which I ignored) or she'd start off calling and then it would turn into a cry (99.9% this is what she'd do). In this case, I would go back to her, tuck her in again and then leave. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Eventually she would come out of her bed... stand at the gate... call a few times and then fall asleep by the gate (on an average about 1.5-2hrs from the time we had initally put her to bed!!!).

If she was distressed (which happened alot because as time would go by, she would get more and more overtired and she would just not be able to settle on her own with a simple tuck in)... so in this case I would stay with her by her bed... gently stroke her hair or hold her hand and when she would calm down, I would tell her I love her very much and that I'll see her in the morning. This worked really well and she'd go to sleep almost straight away (still 1.5-2hrs from the time we had initally put her to bed).

Mel.... this went on for a whole MONTH!!! I don't want to scare you.. but it really did and for about 2-3 weeks she spent sleeping on the floor by her gate rather than staying in her bed and I was transfering her into her bed once she'd fall asleep. We had some serious early wake ups as well because bedtime was sooo late and by this stage she had dropped naps so she was a total mess all day long (poor thing was exhausted).

I think the trick is to stay consistent in whatever method you decide to use for a while. They see all the chinks in your armour.....Also, if you change it up all the time, they don't know what the consequence is and will continuously try and get out of their rooms. (I'm very guilty of this myself!)

Mel, this is SO true!!! At the start I was doing all sorts of things (yelling being one of them )... but about 4 days into the transition, I realised that the poor girl is confused and she's getting my attention (be it negative) ... so I was just saying the same thing over and over again (good night Bella, time to go to sleep)... and then leave.

I never made a big deal out of her being out of her bed. In fact I gave her TOTAL control of what she wanted to do in her room and that solved the battle of taking her back to bed as soon as she was out. THis is why I like the idea of a gate... she could walk around her room... look through books... and when she'd get tired she would go to sleep.

A few months later... she decided she doesn't like the gate closed. So now the gate is still there but we have a compromise and that is the gate will be left open as long as she stays in her room. She knows that if she comes out of her room, the gate will be closed. Whether the door is open or closed is also up to her. I ask her before I leave her room if she wants the door open or not and she tells me.

Its very tough so hang in there. I was separated from my DH at the time so was doing most of this stuff on my own. It was very hard... for those 2hrs of trying to settle Isabella, poor Jasmine used to watch baby einstein videos .

Let me know how things are going

[Hester]

In our case, we didn't use a gate, since that completely freaked him out. We did use a bedrail, which seemed to be boundary enough and if he did come out we did the "boring" approach as well. Bring back, tuck in, say love you, go out.

Hope you find something that works!

[Layla]

Mel, forgot to say that we had a bedrail as well. Unfortunately it wasn't enough to keep her in bed... but it sure stopped (and still does) her from falling out of her bed at night

[meltown]

ok, so if your LO cried when you said good night would you stay or still leave and go back in if your LO kept crying??

Thanks you so much for all the help and advice.  this is exactly what I need.  I am the type of person that feels so lost unless I have something to look for.  to know that this could go on for a month and that the time in normal helps more then you know.  I seriously have read so many posts about LO's loving their bed and having no problem or a couple bad days then everything gets better.  I was in tears today when B finally went to sleep.  it took DH sitting with him and he was out in a matter of minutes but he wouldn't stop coming out and it was almost time for his nap to be over.  I let him sleep a little later then he would have normally because I couldn't even think about waking him.  he was so tired.   I guess I wasn't prepared for all this.  I felt like I knew what was going to happen, but I really didn't. 

I have a couple other questions.  when it took 2 hours to get to sleep how long would you let her sleep?  I am going to be home by myself for some of this soon too.  if I have 2 kids and the little one is crying what do you do with the older one?  would you just leave them and deal with the younger, or would you let them come out of their room and be with you or do something else?  I just fell like if I let him go then it wouldn't be consistent and if I leave him in the room he will probably cry.  I just am a bit lost in all this I guess.  I feel like our whole sleep situation went upside down and now we have a son who is clingy and needy and constantly OT which then makes him cranky.  I feel like it is a never ending circle spiraling down ward.  I need the bad details from peoples transitions.  I need the bluntness.  it helps me. so thank you for that.  did you take down the crib straight way??  it is still up and I have been thinking of moving it out to reagans room so it wont be in there.  it is not going to be used again for him. 

I have been going back and forth about the gate and the handle lock.  I have always closed his door for naps but not nights.  so I sometimes think that the door lock would be better and other times I think the gate would be better because he wouldn't feel closed out.  I never thought I would do anything like this, but last night he woke up and walked into the hall right by Reagans room and began to cry.  I am so scared he will cry and wake her.  I am also thinking of getting a monitor for DD room so I can close her door so she doesn't wake up.  what did you do?

Thanks you again!!!

[Hester]

(((HUGS)))) All transitions are hard.

I see that your LO is only 1 year and 9 months? Why are you moving him to a BBB? (I am just wondering, not saying it's wrong) but if he's upset, he might still need the safety feeling of the crib??
If this is not possible though or if you don't want to go back, I would try and recreate a safety feeling in his bed. Maybe put a rolled up towel next to him or a stuffed animal. You can also give him a blankie that you have slept with for a night or two and have him sleep with that. I put one of those big Ikea leaves over my son's bed to give him a covered feeling, the bedrail also gives a sense of safety.
If he cries when you put him back in, I would stay with him in this case, because he seems to be somewhat afraid to be left alone. Once he's comfortable with his bed, I would leave him and if he stills cries I'd come back after 5 min or so and reassure him. Gradually increase the times that you are staying away, but every time you go away you tel him you'll be right back to check in on him. This will give him safety again of knowing you'll do as you say and are still there.
I don't think I would use a gate or doorlock at this moment, because I sounds to me that he is not "testing" you, but is just confused and a bit overwhelmed or scared. My oldest DS needed LOTS of safety/comfort measures in his short little life. I had a bed next to mine for him for a while, because he came out at night and would wake up the whole house, now he would just crawl next to me (but NOT in my bed, because then I can't sleep)
(BTW, with two I would work with the younger one first and then the older one, not both, since that would drive me NUTS. So yes, maybe it's a little inconsistent, but it will save your sanity)

Just some ideas, hope this helps!

[Layla]

Mel, I took the cot/crib away on the 2nd day. I gave her the option of sleeping in the cot on the first few nights and she wasn't going to.. so I thought it was pointless and that we might as well bite the bullet and keep going with the transition (she was just under 3 year old).

To be honest if Jasmine was only 2 months old, I would either leave her in a cot on her own (providing she's not crying) and deal with the toddler OR I would put her on a sling and she'd probably fall asleep in the process . Put some sort of white noise in the baby's room if you're afraid of him waking her up. Jasmine was in our room for the first 4-5 months, so if you want, you could temporarily have her next to you...

when it took 2 hours to get to sleep how long would you let her sleep?

This is probably more related to the nap... well she had stopped napping by then. If she did nap, I would probably wake her up an hour into the nap to protect bedtime.

Oh and also with Isabella I put 2 long coushins (one of those body length ones.. one on each side) to provide her that extra comfort.

I agree with Hester.... maybe he's just not ready . Do you have the option of getting another crib for the baby so he could go back in his? I sooo wish I was close to you.. I have a spare cot at my mum's house thats not being used. I would send it to you in a second!

[meltown]

We really can't afford another crib.  DH is in school and working part time and I dont work.  we decided to have him in his BBB and It hink we should probably stick with it at this point.  I think he has always been a bit ont he concervative side with trying new things though.  I am thinking maybe I could try to get a few body pillows or something like that to try to help him a bit.  maybe he will feel more secure with that.  The crib is needed for Reagan.  she is sleeping pretty well at night and is in a basinet.  B could have stayed in that thing for a long time but Reagan is already 14 pounds and I worry she wont fit in it much longer, so we need the crib for her. 

so DH and I are going to talk tongiht about what our plan of action is.  we are tryingt o decide what would work for us as a family and for me with sanity   when he is home he is such a good helper and really trys to help and do as I would like with the sleep situation.  he is just gone a lot due to school and work. 

During the nap I think he isn't really scared.  I am pretty sure it is a game for him.  the coming out and going in.  he is laughing as he does this.  at nigth I feel like he is really nervous about it.  that is why we decided that we will kiss him goodnight and try to leave but if he crys that we would stay with him.  I rub his back for a little while and then just sit by him so he feels more comfortable.  I just have to be sure to get DD into bed by 7:30 so this will all work out and I can get him into bed and be able to focus on him.  that is pretty close to what happened tonight so I hope to keep this up.  I think we may do a gate though for bed time....more in the middle of the night so thathe doesn't wake Reagan.  not sure if it will be on her door or his, but I think it may be needed.  I guess it is someting else we need to decide on.

[meltown]

ok, so we got the gate because he kept going into his sisters room all night long.  something occured to me today though, we are doing gradual withdrawl with him at night because when we started doing nights he was really scared and so we stayed with him.  we decided that would be best for bed time because of that.  should we also be doing that in the afternoon for naps too.  we didn't start that way for naps, but I am wondering if it is making the battle worse during the day because we are using 2 different methods.  it makes sense to me, but I know night and day sleep are different so maybe it doesn't matter. 

so far so good too.  we took the crib out today and gave it to Reagan.  I think he was not so sure about that, but I think it is time to move it out so he knows it isn't an option anymore.

[Peek-a-boo]

Mel--this is just me, but I think I'd take the crib down altogether for a few weeks rather than giving it straight to Reagan. And then when you put it back up maybe use different sheets or something so it looks different???  I think I would worry that DS would feel like DD stole his crib and it might increase his insecurity.  If it disappears while he's adjusting to the transition, then he might be more ready for her to have it when it comes back in a few weeks.  This may be silly psychobabble, lol, but that's my thought. 

Personally, I think the different methods for night and nap are okay. 

[meltown]

I thought about that but we have no where to put it to store it.  I wish we did.  it would be in Reagans room either way.  but he took his nap and hasn't seemed worried about it since.  he hasn't seen her in it yet really though.  I thought about taking them in there to "play" and put her in the crib and play with him so he gets used to the idea of her in the crib.

[Hester]

I think you're handling it great! You're very in tune with your boy.
Big thumbs up, just keep going and he'll get use to it eventually, maybe he just needed more hugs, who doesn't!
Even though we think certain things should be done, sometimes life doesn't allow for it so you work with the tools you have...
Amazing work!