Trouble settling 7 week old for naps

[seez1]

My first bub was an 'angel' babe so this is a BIG shock for me with my 7wk old girl!! She falls asleep fine by herself just a few stirs and shes off asleep lovely then its Y time....for 10 mins aggg she wakes i do the sshhhpat thing for a good 20mins (like tracey forums say)and shes a sleep! yah then again 10-15mins awake sleep awake after 2 hrs all up shes only had 20-30mins!! then she goes 12 hours at night...stirs abit in night but puts herself off to sleep fine?? Something seems to wake her during her day sleeps waking up to a big scream please any ideas?? Thanks a million

[marensmama]

Hi there, and welcome to the BW community.  Glad you're having great nights!  Could you post your routine in EAS format so we can see how the day typically looks?  Is she swaddled?

[seez1]

O thanks so much for taking the time to help us i am so grateful, was not sure if i would get help as so so many posts! Thanks so much!! Here we go the day for emily and I....

7am: Breastfed (1/2 hour) & Kick/play
8-8.30: Swaddled put in crib has a little cry drops off to sleep by self(sometimes  with dummy)
*Within 10-15mins awake screaming, I try a few things: letting her cry, dummy, cuddles last resort rocker/swing - then sleeps then wakes anywhere between 5-10 times within the 2hours
11.00 Breastfeed & playtime
12.00ish Swaddled in crib - wont self settle so once again use dummy or rocker - she will wake every 10 - 30 mins wanting a rock/dummy etc - within the 2 hours.
4.00 Breastfeed & play
5.30  Swaddled in crib - wont self settle so once again use dummy or rocker (sometimes top up feed)- she will wake every 10 - 30 mins wanting a rock/dummy etc within the 2 hours **this sleep seems worse can be every 5 mins she waking can put on breast too but falls straight to sleep and wakes when i put her down**
8-9 Breastfeed
9pm- Swaddled in crib self settles herself (then sleeps till 7am...self settles in night-as I hear her stir a little) **if she does wake in nite its a quick feed and then staraight to sleep**
7am Breastfeed...and start again...

On BAD days she will wake every 5 mins - She is never getting into a full sleep cycle cause she keeps waking

Also sometimes if getting rocked in automatic swing she can lay there wide eyed

This only started from when she was 3wks -4wks - This 'routine' is flexi as we are busy with another child we were always having to transport her from the crib to car etc etc....she often uses the car to fall asleep.

Today I did the shhhpat thing and she does go off but again 15 mins later shes awake do I just go in and do shhhpat thing each time she wakes - with her day sleeps? THANKS!!i feel im going crazy and hard with my lil man tom wanting to help me!! look forward in hearing from u

[em_axo]

My first thought is that she may be hungry.  4-5 hours between feedings for a 7-week old seems like a long time, plus she's only getting 5 feedings a day??  I think she should still be getting 7-8 feedings a day at that age...  Maybe if you shifted to a 3 hour EASY you might have better luck with naps?

[seez1]

Thanks emaxo Def will do!- well i never thought of that as my first bub was always 4 hourly...gosh how guilty would i feel starving my babe!! (though she very very chubby!) I already feel bad enough how i have got her addicted to the rocker/dummy!

Anyway I just had a horrible time with sshh/pat....thought id share PLEASE tell me if i did it wrong etc or any suggestions

Wrapped her put her in crib  (emily screaming...)
10 mins started to drift to sleep yah !
then did a big sniff with her her nose and worked herself right up for 10mins
i picked her up calmed her put her down high screaming more and more
thought about puttin her in rocker
thought about the dummy
cried!
emily screaming more and more
gave her some breast....she fell asleep (naughty me!!)
then of course woke when i put in crib screamed for another5 mins then calmed down and has now stayed asleep I stayed with her for 15 mins once she fallen asleep just shhhing

all up she was asleep for 25mins then woke i went in did it again with her sooooooo worked up - im still at it with her crib next to the comp. please help me

[marensmama]

I think she might be a little bit OT.  LOs her age can usually handle 75 minutes of A time, but the first A time of the day is usually the shortest.  If that first nap is short, then the rest of the day generally goes downhill from there.  I'd try 60 minutes and go from there.  It does seem that you have some prop issues, that you will need to work on and pat/shh is a great tool at this age to deal with that.

In your routine, I wasn't clear on what happened between 5:30 pm and 8 pm.  Could you clarify?

Here's a few links that might help you (from our FAQ section):
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85500.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64275.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.msg477912#msg477912

I think she might also be a bit OS and that's why she can't settle, so make sure you have a good winddown routine in place and keep the A time just before naps pretty low key.

Let me know how you get on.

[seez1]

Hi thanks again for your reply.
Today I took her off cold turkey dummy & rocking using shhhpat
this is how the day went:
If you could let me know if im on the right or wrong track please let me know.

Woke 5.30am
Fed and straight back to bed (self setttled fine)
Woke at 8am fed
In car with toddler at 9am she fell straight asleep for 1.5hour
10.30 fed
11.30 bed ssshhhpat for 60mins (slept for 25mins) then sshhpat for further 60mins didnt settle so fed
then tried ssshhhpat for 60mins (slept for 15mins) then ssshhhpat for further 45mins didnt settle so fed
then tried ssshhhpat for 45 mins didnt settle so fed
Then tried ssshhhpat again would not settle so fed then screaming
put in rocker fell straight asleep.

I was in her room all day with her sshhpatting and feeding (eating choc biscuits 4 lunch!)
My mum is looking after my toddler for 3 days to help I would not at all be able to do this if he was home - and i somehow doubt 3 days will do it.

I gave in with rocker as i gathered from all the screaming all day she just needed some shut eye or i could have gone mad THIS IS ONLY DAY 1 please tell me this gets better as i feel like giving up already.

Thanks for your links have had chance to read tonight thanks some great advice & i am doing the wd time etc. did all what it says.
do i keep up with sshhhpat even though she is prob OT & OS each time I just feel so useless as i coped so well with my first and my dh just dont get it.
I have a degree in early childhood education and just feel so dumb for not settling her
Just cant wait to post in "success stories"
So sorry for all the moaning - will keep up with readings on this site thanks Sarah and Emily 
Thanks for

[seez1]

Sorry answer to your question to clarify routine between 530-8pm : usually in rocker in and out of sleep with me putting the dummy in and out (unsettled sleep)
Cheers.

[marensmama]

Awwww, }}}}}}}}}}}HUGS{{{{{{{{{{{  That sounds like a rough day for both of you!!  And don't beat yourself up.  She is still so new and she's just figuring out this sleep thing.  I'm glad to read that her nights are good, that's a very good sign!  As far as prop issues go, I was referring to the rocker and the car rides and use of the breast.  If she likes the paci and you are comfortable with the use of it, please continue.  If she is what I call a 'sucky' baby, then she'll need something and it may be too early for her to find her hands to suck on them or since she's swaddled that may be not possible.  You could try leaving one arm out of the swaddle so she can find something to suck on herself, but even that may be OS at this point, so the paci would be more useful.  Paci addiction is not usually a problem until 4-5 months if that's something you are worried about.

As far as pat/shh goes, if it's not calming her, you can modify it.  My DD2 has reflux and for the first 8 weeks she was so sick with it that she would only sleep on me 24/7.  Once it was treated, we had major prop issues.  To help her with that, I used pat/shh but it seemed to be not working, got her more upset... She's a touchy/spirited babe and the patting irritated her reflux, so once I modified it to just keeping my hand on her chest and playing with the volume of the shh'ing, I found what worked.   And it did take time, but it worked and I could use the technique with her up until recently, it's such a useful tool.  Have you done the temperament quiz?  Touchy and spirited babes need the sleep environment more closely controlled than say a textbook babe.  I had to remove the mobile from Hayden's crib, darken the room with a black-out blind, not make eye contact while pat/shh'ing, and I couldn't wear a hoody that had dangly strings hanging off of it, or those distracted her.

As far as PP mentioned about the feeds, that's absolutely correct, so make sure you're feeding her every 3 hours during the day (and let her take the lead at night).

Let me know how you're making out. 

[em_axo]

I hope I didn't make you feel guilty about the feeding!  It was just the first suggestion that came to mind.     I think we started doing shh-pat around 7-8 weeks, but it sort of sounds like your Emily is maybe just not ready for that yet.  I wouldn't beat yourself up over it, she is still really new to the world and figuring everything out.  If it were me, I would just do whatever I needed to, prop or not, to get a good long nap out of her.  Can she sleep a long time if you hold her?  Or in her swing?  Maybe if she can get a few days of good sleep under her belt, she will be more able to deal with the routine and soothing herself to sleep.

Also agree with the pp that I wouldn't worry about paci addiction at this point.  Some babies have a strong suck reflex and need that.  If it helps her settle down, I would use it and worry about breaking her of it later when she has other means of self-soothing.

[seez1]

Hey thanks!
She woke this morn at 6 then self settled fine and woke at 9 so fed her i put her down again and she fell asleep by herself with 20mins! for 1/2 hour then woke so i put dummy in and have sat with her for 60mins - she just staring and in and out of sleep ? but not crying
cant do that when my toddler home -
trying not to stress but just wish she could stay asleep! as i know she can self settle fine when not OT and OS
thanks 4 all advice u guys are helping me so much get thru this 

[marensmama]

Sorry, Sarah, I was away for a couple days.  How are things going now?

[seez1]

Hi there well im not as stressed - i have stopped comparing her to my boy and are enjoying this 'personality! She is touchy - where tom was angel. Huge difference.!
Using the dummy has been much easier was so worried about that being a prop for her to fall asleep .... she still doing 10 hours so thats fantastic - during days now only takes 10-15mins of shhh with dummy for her to fall asleep is hard wit tom but he comes in and shhh too! its just she often will wake up 20-25mins later so just pop dummy bac in and shhh again sometimes she goes back asleep other times no. so after reading the interveiw with tracey - i decided to get her up and have some A time then feed then bac to bed which seems to work ok! she just cannot get os or ot or boy its soooo hard to get her to sleep so i put her down even tho she coooing and smiles at me!! and sometimes goes off by herself
Thanks all for your encouragment and advice - what a great site this is!!! heres our routine kind of so c what u think??

E 6am
A 630am
S 645am-
E 9am
A 930am
S 10am-1130
A 1130
E 1230
S 100pm
E 330
A 4
S 430
E 700
A 730
S 830 - 6am

[marensmama]

Awwww, what a sweet big brother helping with the shhh'ing!  My 3yo DD pat/shh's all her dollies when she puts them down.  I love it, little BWers in the making.

As far as the routine goes, it looks and sounds fantastic.  If you start having 45 minute naps, then you could try a little more A time, but if she's touchy, she's probably a little on the low side of A time needs anyways.  Glad to hear you're having success!