11month old - nap change?

[mini me]

Hi!
We have been having a good success lately with Artemis' naps, she now gives no signals for naps and has responded really well to going down for her naps at a set time regardless of when she wakes up (I am sooooo graateful for this ... it was a looooong and unhappy summer napwise!!) Anyway, the past month we have had awful nights waiting for her 1st top tooth to break thru (it came a few days ago) we had anywhere from 5-20 NWs, so am glad she's ok now. She has 2 naps of approx 1hr15 and wakes happy, goes to bed and then wakes usually 3-4times during the first few hours of night sleep (this is not a prob as we haven't gone to bed yet, but I'm sure she shouldn't be doing this), then she sleeps til morning.
Last week we were out after her morning nap and she missed her pm nap (she moaned at the time it should have been, she has never been able to sleep outside the house or away from her cot ) she went passed the moaning and finally went to bed as usual and we didn't hear a peep from her til the morning. OK I thought this was a one off and she was catching up on her lost teething sleep. It happened again the other day and again she slept thru til morning. (the inbetween days where I put the pm nap in again she moaned her usual time in the eve). Yesterday, she missed her pm nap again as we were out (bad parents, but she won't sleep away and we can't be prisoners in our own house!!) She slept thru thil morning and so I put her down for am nap a little later than usual and she is still sleeping 2.5hrs later!     Are we heading for a 2-1 transition (she needs to have a catnap in the pm as it's waaaay too long to go from 11.30 til bedtime!!) Or what else could be going on - I checked out the 2-1 board and she's not doing the usual signs of change - ie refusing naps etc.

Here's her routine:
7.15 wake and play in cot
8.30 breakfast (porridge made with 120mls milk)
9.45 milk (150mls)
10.15 nap
11.30 wake
12.15 lunch (veggies + protein (fish/meat/cheese etc))
2.30 milk (150mls)
3.00 nap
4.15 wake
5.00 tea (yoghurt, fruit)
7.00 bath
7.15 milk (300mls - lot's I know, but she has ALWAYS drunk loads at bedtime!)
7.30 sleep

Any help would be great as I don't want to encourage a change which is not good, but don't want to hold her back either ...

TIA

[deckchariot]

It certainly sounds like it could be the 2 to 1 transition - she's just showing different signs - but the age is right and the "wonkiness" of naps is right.  There are 2 basic approaches to navigating the switch:

1) keep am nap at the same time but shorten it gradually, til it's at 30 min.  At the same time, move the pm nap earlier (since your bub won't be as well rested, she won't be able to handle as long of an A time).  Eventually eliminate the am nap altogether and push the 1 nap out a bit again to balance out your day.

2) push the am nap out later (gradually) but let your bub sleep as long as she wants.  Then offer a short pm catnap (often late in the day) just to make it til bedtime.  Eventually, the pm catnap is no longer needed.

In both cases, you can do an early bedtime if one or both of the naps isn't good.  #1 is generally the best option if your bub needs a longer A time before bed.  If your bub doesn't need a long A time before bed and is a bear to wake up from naps, #2 might be a better option.

So you can do a little experimenting and see what works for your dd based on who she is.

hth
michelle

[mini me]

Thanks Michelle ... I think I like the sound of the 2nd approach - as that's the way things seem to be going by themselves, so maybe follow DDs lead? Number 1 also sounds more rational, but she seems to want her am nap and if that nap is the longest one, then maybe I shouldn't eliminate it??? Hmmm will talk to DH so see what he says (better run the daoyl schedule by him or else I will be moaned at if the nights get all messed up!! ) Thanks again ... am just annoyed it's started this early! Grrrrr We just got a few weeks of good naps and now this!!!

I gave her a 1hr nap yesterday eve and she went to bed on time (only 2hr A time tho) so she took about 45mins to finally give up and go to sleep (not crying just playing in her cot in the dark!!) So this morning she woke at 7.15am but was playing quietly so I accidently fell asleep again!!! Oops!! I woke at 9.30!!   So she's had breakie and is now playing. I reckon I'll try and put her to sleep around 11.15am (I'm not sure if she slept again this morning, but I suspect she must have otherwise she normally calls out after about and hour). Do you think I should just leave her to see how much she wants to sleep on her am naps? And then give a catnap earlish in the pm?
Today tho we have swimming at 1.30pm, so it will mess things up 0 we cjose this time as it fitted in so well with her naps, but now ..... hmmmm

[huntersmummyinoz]

hi andi, think she is definitely showing signs of the 2 to 1 switch. hunter did the same thing, in that initially he never used to refuse naps (thats only been the last 2 weeks ) but it was more a problem of fitting 2 naps in a day once his A time went up.

we opted for number 2 as hunter was a 2hr morning napper and shorter pm nap, plus he is mr cranky if we have to wake him (some LOs are fine with this or the grumps only last a short while, but hunter would be cranky all day!) so we let him sleep as long as he wants in the am, and then did the catnap. we just had a time to wake him up by from the catnap so that his bt was still okay. prob that you may run into going with this option is when she refuses the catnap but her first A time isnt long enuf (this is where we are at the moment), but there are options to help deal with that too.

when you have things on you can use the number 1 option. yesterday we had a xmas party from 12 to 3. hunter usually sleeps 11 to 1. so we just let him have 40 mins at 11, woke him. and then put him down again at 3.30, had to wake him at 5.15pm  so something similar may help you on swimming days.

also there is a support thread for the 2 to 1 nap. you'll find a few of our bc on there and some others you know from the next bc.

HTH
kirry

[mini me]

Thanks Kirry! It's one thing after another, eh?
I'll check out the 2-1 thread - was trying not to as I was REALLY hoping she would give us some peace for a while!! Oh well ... whatever madam wants ... :p
I woke her for swimming today after 1hr15, so not sure quite what will happen later, so will follow her cues (especially if she wants to snooze)!

[mamitica]

Andi- I'm glad you posted this question because A is waking up a lot at night and I was wondering if it could be that he's getting too much S in the day.  Even last week, at the daycare they had asked if he was ready to transition to the 1 nap and I thought NO.....maybe I'm the one who's not ready....    If we do the switch, I think we would go for #2 option.  I'll see how things develop.  Good luck!

Ale

[babymunkey]

Hi girls

Just a note to say we're the same.........he slept for 3 hrs 10 for his AM nap today! So needless to say no catnap - but the bit the silly boy hasn't got right is his A time in the am.....he's still only managing on average 3.5 hours - sometimes only 3 and sometimes will stretch to 4, although last time we did that he pulled a 40 minute am nap (which was obvioulsy OT as he was blatantly exhausted when he woke but wouldn't resettle)

But wierdly he seems to be able to manage long pm A times - today was from 1.20 to 6.30...... Quite happy - a bit grumpy at bedtime but I think that was more teeth - he was playing with his bottle and pulling at his ear.......

Having dabbled with option 1 for a month or so, Option 2 works better for us

I did post on the 2 to 1 thread a while ago when I thought we were going that way - will hop back on there - good luck everyone and see you there!

H

[huntersmummyinoz]

andi, hopefully she is extra tired after swimming and will go down easily anyway

ale, my best advice is dont rush the switch, hang on to two naps for as long as possible!!!!

H, i cheat, our morning A time is 4hr15ish, but that includes watching 'in the night garden'

[mini me]

Welcome everyone!!! I just knew we wouldn't be alone for long!!

Ha ha Kirry! I also put 10miins of Winnie the Pooh on for A if she needs to be stretched - but more so just before bedtime(she loves the Little Black Raincloud part).

I'm the same as you Helen - A wakes at 7.20 and today I stretched her to an 11am nap - and she's gone out like a light (I think!!)! But she can do a massive pm A time.

Yesterday after swimming she ate loads (as usual after her exercise!!) (by the way I lost a kilo from her swimming lessons!! Don'r really need to, but I don't mind - just need to tone up the wobbly bits -well that's almost everywhere!  :p ) I put her down for a nap at 4.10pm and had to wake her at 5pm so she wasn't too rested for bedtime. Isn't it crazy ... only a few weeks ago I was desperately trying to get her to sleep more, now I'm stopping her!! She went to bed, but played and did her tired moan (not crying just a monotonous ahh ahh ahh) until 8.45pm!! Hmm .. need to sort this out next!

So I will see how long she goes this morning or her nap - I'll leave her and then see about the pm nap. I'm back in the land of the unknown again!! Do you reckon it's going to be like this til about 18yrs old??!!

See you on the BC board and 2-1 board ...

[mini me]

Well, A had her am nap at 11am and slept til 1.15pm then played the best part of an hour in her cot in the dark!! So she was well rested, then after going to the park she is now on her pm catnap (eye-rubbing started) from 4.45. But I will wake her after about 30mins as yesterday I left her for an hour and she wouldn't fall asleep at nighttime. So am hoping 30mins will recharge her and not interfere too much with bedtime. Is it better to go for a later bedtime or just make the catnap really short? I don't want to interfere with her bedtime too much, but she needs to be tired enough to go to sleep. Any ideas?

[mamitica]

Kirry- you're rigth.  Yesterday he took his 2 naps w/o problem right on schedule and he had 2 NW.  Nursed the first one and did PD in the second one for about an hour.  Then, nursed and off to sleep.  Hopefully tonight it will go better and we can get rid of the second NW.

Andi- it seems that things are transitioning rather well.  She slept well for her nap, took the little catnap, a bit hard to fall asleep, but any NW?  I don't have much expertise in the 2-1 switch, but if I recall correctly from BWSAYP, keeping the bedtime is important.  So I would go for the shorter catnap, which will eventually dissapear.

Good luck

Ale

[huntersmummyinoz]

ale, if you are getting frequent long nw, then that may be a sign to adjust his napping?? could also be teething, illness, etc etc etc

andi, if she had a 2hr15min am nap, then 30/40mins is prob plenty for a catnap. i used to try and get hunter to have around 40 mins so that he was getting one full sleep cycle. but i also found a time that he had to be awake by in order for bt to be okay. at first this was 5.15pm, then later 5pm, bt is 7.30pm.
now that he is often refusing catnap, if i think he really needs a two nap day then i will let him have 20 min even up to 5.30pm and just make bt a little later, no later than 8pm. i do this on days where he has woken earlier in the am (like around 6am, he usually wakes around 630/645) as otherwise it means a really early bt and here that just mean an even earlier ew! hunters not one of those LOs that makes up extra night sleep. he's good for 11 to 11.5hrs and thats it. hope that makes sense??
other tip for the catnap. hunter doesnt like to be woken up, i found he handled being woken more easily if we gave him 40mins (one sleep cycle) or 20 mins (just before they drift into a deep sleep). when i wake him after 30mins he is quite confused and super grumpy.
HTH

[mini me]

Hiya! Yesterday I woke Artemis after 30mins as it was getting close to bedtime, so 5.15pm. We did bathtime as she was starting to get naughty (this is a sure sign of her getting tired! ) and she was inbed by 7.45pm. But after 1hr we had to give her pain meds as she sharted gnawing on her dummy and moaning then standing up and lughing after i went in to lie her down again! Gave her meds as her 2nd top tooth/gum is swollen. I do hope this transition is down to teething! I'm so not sure what to do for the best re her naps. If it is just a blip due to teething I will be kicking myself if I go and mess up her 2 nap routine, but if it is 2-1 then we want to try and keep ahead of things. Will give it a few more days on the 2-1 schedule and then re-assess. But then again, as I have been reading the other 2-1 BWs it is up and down for ages deciding if LO is on a 2nap day or a catnap day. Oh well ... who knows!??

ps Kirry love the new pic!! Hunter makes me laugh ... he's in exactly the same position, but just with a change of clothes!!! You have got me thinking if I can find a cheap angel/elf/snowwoman costume to dress Artemis in for a Xmas photocard...